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Big 12 Round Two
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Huan Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Big 12 Round Two
(10-10-2021 10:51 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  
(10-10-2021 08:50 AM)Huan Wrote:  
(10-10-2021 12:46 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Huan: acAdemics mean (almost) NOTHING! It’s a fig leaf to convince people who should know erred what TRULY matters. ($$$)

By reports 6 teams had unanimous votes for consideration of invitation. All 6 could have been invited in a staggered manner so that the limit of 14 teams not exceeded by 2025. Only 4 were invited. The two that weren’t both had worse academics. While academics may not be a driver for selection, it might have been a factor for non selection.

You seriously need to relax. You are exclaiming "bad academics " so much that you are starting to sound like the rain man. You just soi happen to keep ignoring the fact that people have told you several times that Memphis is about to move up to R1 designation and no offense to Boise you keep mentioning "Memphis and Boise " as though we are so type of academic siamese twins which couldn't be further from the truth. The truth is that. University of Memphis's goal was never to strive towards exclusionary goals of admittance. The UM has however become the home of many and I mean many first generation college grads including myself, my brother and my wife and now our children are all first generation holders of master degrees. I'll take that anyday over your obvious fake elitism about academics and the "Next to schools"in line for big12 acceptance. 05-nono05-nono

Lol I am relaxed! Never said bad academics in describing Memphis or Boise. In fact I have never posted anything degrading Memphis or Boise! I grouped Memphis and Boise together because of the 6 evaluated programs with “unanimous” votes neither Boise nor Memphis were invited. They have that in common; both also share worse academics compared to the selected 4. “Worse” is comparative and isn’t the same as bad. I am fully aware that Memphis may get R1 soon but soon isn’t now and is not definite. Would getting R1 help Memphis? I think so: with or without b12 invite Memphis will be better as an academic institution (the primary mission of universities). If not academics then why Memphis didn’t get an invite?

I am a Texas tech graduate. Why would I be an academic elitist? Lol. We serve the under served region of West Texas and has done a great job in this regard. We are R1 but not a national academic institution. But I am under no illusion we are not candidates for other p5 conferences because our academics aren’t good enough! We have worse academics than UT or any other AAU programs. Had we been AAU Tech would have had more options!

Failure to understand what hold you back prevents you from improving your deficits.
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2021 11:53 AM by Huan.)
10-10-2021 11:48 AM
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Charlie Broadway Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Big 12 Round Two
Edit - nm
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2021 12:14 PM by Charlie Broadway.)
10-10-2021 12:11 PM
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Sideshow2313 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Big 12 Round Two
Boise is not making the B12, If they didn't make it already they will never make it. Some items are too big for them to overcome. Academics and other sports.
10-10-2021 07:47 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Big 12 Round Two
(10-10-2021 07:50 AM)Reverend Wrote:  ...Everyone thought it would be 4 16 team power Conferences but the PAC 12 and Big 10 got cold feet ...

Actually, it is simply a fact that not even everybody on THIS site thought it would be 4, 16-team conferences.

The PAC-12 and Big Ten pursued their own self interest rather than pandering to the desire of people who like to imagine neat, symmetric systems, and putting it down to "cold feet" is just being in denial that the 4, 16-team conference predictions were ignoring history and reality.

____________
(10-10-2021 07:47 PM)Sideshow2313 Wrote:  Boise is not making the B12, If they didn't make it already they will never make it. Some items are too big for them to overcome. Academics and other sports.

Reportedly they were one of six schools that received unanimous support for being added to the Big12, and were on the last short list when the Core Eight decided on four adds for the Big12. So evidently academics were not a sufficient issue for any school to vote against them for being eligible for adding.

With a NET last year higher than two of the four adds, it's so not clear that they would be viewed as a serious drag on MBB, which is what counts when we say "other sports" in this context.
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2021 08:05 PM by BruceMcF.)
10-10-2021 07:56 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Big 12 Round Two
(10-10-2021 07:56 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(10-10-2021 07:50 AM)Reverend Wrote:  ...Everyone thought it would be 4 16 team power Conferences but the PAC 12 and Big 10 got cold feet ...

Actually, it is simply a fact that not even everybody on THIS site thought it would be 4, 16-team conferences.

The PAC-12 and Big Ten pursued their own self interest rather than pandering to the desire of people who like to imagine neat, symmetric systems, and putting it down to "cold feet" is just being in denial that the 4, 16-team conference predictions were ignoring history and reality.

____________
(10-10-2021 07:47 PM)Sideshow2313 Wrote:  Boise is not making the B12, If they didn't make it already they will never make it. Some items are too big for them to overcome. Academics and other sports.

Reportedly they were one of six schools that received unanimous support for being added to the Big12, and were on the last short list when the Core Eight decided on four adds for the Big12. So evidently academics were not a sufficient issue for any school to vote against them for being eligible for adding.

With a NET last year higher than two of the four adds, it's so not clear that they would be viewed as a serious drag on MBB, which is what counts when we say "other sports" in this context.

As a Boise St fan and a fan of realism, I do think it is probable that we get a XII invite but I do not think it is in the long-term best interest for either the XII or Boise St. Should the conference wish to get to 14 after Oklahoma and Texas leave, I’d go with Memphis and South Florida.

Expanding more West after expanding more East is a geographical mistake. BYU is a one-off exception to the rule. If the XII gets raided again, is it wise to have schools span from Idaho to Houston to West Virginia?

For Boise St, the long-term picture is a XII with high volatility and a MWC with burned bridges. The safe play is the expand the MWC (Rice, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Wichita St) and grow the value of the MWC.
10-10-2021 08:28 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Big 12 Round Two
No doubt about it. Going to 4 CTZ schools, at least those four, along with Wichita is the checkmate move. It’s not the WAC by any stretch. That’s ridiculous. The WAC blew up when there were like 12 viable conferences. MWC can be the premiere G5 conference with those four private institutions. Now do they have a compelling offer? Probably can’t match the AAC pay per team, but again, the geography with Hawaii doesn’t work without some pod setup. And it keeps rivalries intact. BSU can get Utah State every year and rotate BYU Utah (or PAC12 scheduling setup) annually, or maybe get them both OOC annually.

It is contingent on getting a network to bid up for that programming and having BSU commit over the long run.

Once Memphis and presumably USF get into the Big 12, you go for the kill shot and take 3 AAC west schools. Then it comes down to Rice and UTSA, and I’d go Rice for the cultural fit. There are simply no answers for the America and they will have no choice but to get back as an East coast conference exclusively.
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2021 08:44 PM by RUScarlets.)
10-10-2021 08:41 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Big 12 Round Two
(10-10-2021 08:41 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  No doubt about it. Going to 4 CTZ schools, at least those four, along with Wichita is the checkmate move. It’s not the WAC by any stretch. That’s ridiculous. The WAC blew up when there were like 12 viable conferences. MWC can be the premiere G5 conference with those four private institutions. Now do they have a compelling offer? Probably can’t match the AAC pay per team, but again, the geography with Hawaii doesn’t work without some pod setup. And it keeps rivalries intact. BSU can get Utah State every year and rotate BYU Utah (or PAC12 scheduling setup) annually, or maybe get them both OOC annually.

It is contingent on getting a network to bid up for that programming and having BSU commit over the long run.

Once Memphis and presumably USF get into the Big 12, you go for the kill shot and take 3 AAC west schools. Then it comes down to Rice and UTSA, and I’d go Rice for the cultural fit. There are simply no answers for the America and they will have no choice but to get back as an East coast conference exclusively.

Having a pod with 4 CTZ privates would be great. UTSA has a huge upside but I’m not quite sold yet. Then maybe see something like this result (after Memphis and South Florida join the XII):

CUSA
East: Arkansas St, Louisiana Tech, North Texas, UL Lafayette, UTEP, UTSA
West: Florida Atlantic, Georgia St, Middle Tennessee St, Southern Miss, UAB, Western Kentucky

AAC
North: Delaware, East Carolina, James Madison, Marshall, Old Dominion, Temple
South: Appalachian St, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Florida International, Georgia Southern, Troy

SUN BELT ???
East: Eastern Kentucky, Jacksonville St, Liberty, McNeese St, South Alabama, Tennessee - Chattanooga
West: Lamar, Louisiana - Monroe, New Mexico St, San Houston St, Stephen F. Austin St, Texas St
10-10-2021 09:15 PM
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ARSTATEFAN1986 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Big 12 Round Two
(10-10-2021 09:15 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  [quote='RUScarlets' pid='17720403' dateline='1633916506']
No doubt about it. Going to 4 CTZ schools, at least those four, along with Wichita is the checkmate move. It’s not the WAC by any stretch. That’s ridiculous. The WAC blew up when there were like 12 viable conferences. MWC can be the premiere G5 conference with those four private institutions. Now do they have a compelling offer? Probably can’t match the AAC pay per team, but again, the geography with Hawaii doesn’t work without some pod setup. And it keeps rivalries intact. BSU can get Utah State every year and rotate BYU Utah (or PAC12 scheduling setup) annually, or maybe get them both OOC annually.

It is contingent on getting a network to bid up for that programming and having BSU commit over the long run.

Once Memphis and presumably USF get into the Big 12, you go for the kill shot and take 3 AAC west schools. Then it comes down to Rice and UTSA, and I’d go Rice for the cultural fit. There are simply no answers for the America and they will have no choice but to get back as an East coast conference exclusively.

CUSA
West: Louisiana Tech, North Texas, Lamar, New Mexico State, UTEP, Sam Houston State and Stephen F. Austin
East: SE La, Florida International, Jacksonville State, Liberty, Middle Tennessee St, Eastern Kentucky and Western Kentucky

AAC
North Atlantic: UMASS, East Carolina, Charlotte, Buffalo, Marshall, Navy and Temple
East Coast/Gulf Coast : UAB, Charlotte, Georgia State, Florida Atlantic, Tulane, Rice and UTSA

SUN BELT
East: Appalachian State, Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, JMU, ODU, Tennessee-Chattanooga and Troy
West: Arkansas State, Louisiana, Louisiana-Monroe, South Alabama , Southern Miss, McNeese State and Texas St


Arkansas State will never want to be in a conference with Louisiana Tech or North Texas'
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2021 10:43 PM by ARSTATEFAN1986.)
10-10-2021 10:39 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Big 12 Round Two
(10-10-2021 08:28 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(10-10-2021 07:56 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(10-10-2021 07:50 AM)Reverend Wrote:  ...Everyone thought it would be 4 16 team power Conferences but the PAC 12 and Big 10 got cold feet ...

Actually, it is simply a fact that not even everybody on THIS site thought it would be 4, 16-team conferences.

The PAC-12 and Big Ten pursued their own self interest rather than pandering to the desire of people who like to imagine neat, symmetric systems, and putting it down to "cold feet" is just being in denial that the 4, 16-team conference predictions were ignoring history and reality.

____________
(10-10-2021 07:47 PM)Sideshow2313 Wrote:  Boise is not making the B12, If they didn't make it already they will never make it. Some items are too big for them to overcome. Academics and other sports.

Reportedly they were one of six schools that received unanimous support for being added to the Big12, and were on the last short list when the Core Eight decided on four adds for the Big12. So evidently academics were not a sufficient issue for any school to vote against them for being eligible for adding.

With a NET last year higher than two of the four adds, it's so not clear that they would be viewed as a serious drag on MBB, which is what counts when we say "other sports" in this context.

As a Boise St fan and a fan of realism, I do think it is probable that we get a XII invite but I do not think it is in the long-term best interest for either the XII or Boise St. Should the conference wish to get to 14 after Oklahoma and Texas leave, I’d go with Memphis and South Florida.

Expanding more West after expanding more East is a geographical mistake. BYU is a one-off exception to the rule. If the XII gets raided again, is it wise to have schools span from Idaho to Houston to West Virginia?

For Boise St, the long-term picture is a XII with high volatility and a MWC with burned bridges. The safe play is the expand the MWC (Rice, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Wichita St) and grow the value of the MWC.

I agree. Its not a good move. There is value in having a compact area from a marketing standpoint. Its a big cost for non-rev sports. And if Boise's football fortunes take a nose-dive, Boise could become a real albatross like Idaho was in the Pac predecessor.
10-10-2021 11:42 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Big 12 Round Two
(10-10-2021 10:39 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  
(10-10-2021 09:15 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  [quote='RUScarlets' pid='17720403' dateline='1633916506']
No doubt about it. Going to 4 CTZ schools, at least those four, along with Wichita is the checkmate move. It’s not the WAC by any stretch. That’s ridiculous. The WAC blew up when there were like 12 viable conferences. MWC can be the premiere G5 conference with those four private institutions. Now do they have a compelling offer? Probably can’t match the AAC pay per team, but again, the geography with Hawaii doesn’t work without some pod setup. And it keeps rivalries intact. BSU can get Utah State every year and rotate BYU Utah (or PAC12 scheduling setup) annually, or maybe get them both OOC annually.

It is contingent on getting a network to bid up for that programming and having BSU commit over the long run.

Once Memphis and presumably USF get into the Big 12, you go for the kill shot and take 3 AAC west schools. Then it comes down to Rice and UTSA, and I’d go Rice for the cultural fit. There are simply no answers for the America and they will have no choice but to get back as an East coast conference exclusively.

CUSA
West: Louisiana Tech, North Texas, Lamar, New Mexico State, UTEP, Sam Houston State and Stephen F. Austin
East: SE La, Florida International, Jacksonville State, Liberty, Middle Tennessee St, Eastern Kentucky and Western Kentucky

AAC
North Atlantic: UMASS, East Carolina, Charlotte, Buffalo, Marshall, Navy and Temple
East Coast/Gulf Coast : UAB, Charlotte, Georgia State, Florida Atlantic, Tulane, Rice and UTSA

SUN BELT
East: Appalachian State, Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, JMU, ODU, Tennessee-Chattanooga and Troy
West: Arkansas State, Louisiana, Louisiana-Monroe, South Alabama , Southern Miss, McNeese State and Texas St


Arkansas State will never want to be in a conference with Louisiana Tech or North Texas'

They did of course spent many years with them in the Southland and Big West as well I believe.
10-10-2021 11:44 PM
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RUScarlets Online
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Post: #31
RE: Big 12 Round Two
If the Big 12 and MWC end up absorbing 5 plus AAC schools, I think Navy and Army should start their own conference with Temple. Get Liberty (UMass and UConn football probably miss the cut). Add Buffalo, Marshall and a couple more notable programs among G5 schools.
10-11-2021 06:25 AM
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Huan Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Big 12 Round Two
I like to see the MWC grow stronger. Their geography spans the gap between p5s and exist as the primary fbs draw for these areas. They should work out a scheduling agreement with the pac-12 and the big 12.
10-11-2021 09:25 AM
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Huan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Big 12 Round Two
(10-11-2021 06:25 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  If the Big 12 and MWC end up absorbing 5 plus AAC schools, I think Navy and Army should start their own conference with Temple. Get Liberty (UMass and UConn football probably miss the cut). Add Buffalo, Marshall and a couple more notable programs among G5 schools.

An east coast conference?
10-11-2021 09:26 AM
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RUScarlets Online
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Post: #34
RE: Big 12 Round Two
(10-11-2021 09:26 AM)Huan Wrote:  
(10-11-2021 06:25 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  If the Big 12 and MWC end up absorbing 5 plus AAC schools, I think Navy and Army should start their own conference with Temple. Get Liberty (UMass and UConn football probably miss the cut). Add Buffalo, Marshall and a couple more notable programs among G5 schools.

An east coast conference?

If the AAC gets absorbed in the manner I laid out, an Atlantic conference headlined by Army Navy would work nicely. Maybe just go with 8 schools in key hubs. Buffalo is a decent add. Marshall. Add an FAU. If they have to go to Texas, add UTSA and UNT. Liberty would give you 8. Otherwise get Coastal and GSU and with close recruiting out by Savanah.
10-11-2021 04:23 PM
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ARSTATEFAN1986 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Big 12 Round Two
(10-11-2021 04:23 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  
(10-11-2021 09:26 AM)Huan Wrote:  
(10-11-2021 06:25 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  If the Big 12 and MWC end up absorbing 5 plus AAC schools, I think Navy and Army should start their own conference with Temple. Get Liberty (UMass and UConn football probably miss the cut). Add Buffalo, Marshall and a couple more notable programs among G5 schools.








An east coast conference?

If the AAC gets absorbed in the manner I laid out, an Atlantic conference headlined by Army Navy would work nicely. Maybe just go with 8 schools in key hubs. Buffalo is a decent add. Marshall. Add an FAU. If they have to go to Texas, add UTSA and UNT. Liberty would give you 8. Otherwise get Coastal and GSU and with close recruiting out by Savanah.
An east coast conference would probably include Temple, UMASS, Buffalo. Navy, East Carolina, Liberty, Charlotte, ODU, JMU, USF, Georgia State, and Marshall.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2021 05:34 PM by ARSTATEFAN1986.)
10-11-2021 05:32 PM
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