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Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-15-2021 08:30 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-14-2021 11:21 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 09:28 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  “FSU makes ESPN more money helping to anchor a best of the rest conference designed to keep advertising control over the SE and SW in ESPN hands.”

Completely agree. FSU would likely be accretive in the SEC, but to ESPN they are the essential piece of their lucrative ACC contract. In addition, UNC and Duke are a synergistic partnership (1+1=3)…they complement each other’s athletics and academics. IMO, maximizing athletic revenue is not UNC’s nor Duke’s top objective…these institutions prioritize prestige and will only split-up as a last resort. ESPN needs FSU in the ACC; and FSU’s continued membership reinforces the UNC-Duke journey in the ACC.

Unless Duke de-emphasizes football, I don't see UNC and Duke splitting. For that matter, UVA and UNC either.

Didn't you know? Duke was THE private school football program long before Notre Dame even thought of it (with national championships, major bowl games, the works). They de-emphasized football long ago... they just never bothered to drop down a level.

IMO, Duke loves high-level college athletics. Duke basketball is a monster on social media; Coach K and Jon Scheyer have mastered the one-and-done era; and Duke athletics supports the overall university brand. NIL and payments to student athletes should be manageable hurdles to Duke. The issue is how to hold Duke accountable to continually invest in football. Both Northwestern and Stanford have put resources into football…so Duke’s peers have already paved a good path. Duke will be fine in the ACC, B1G or SEC…they just prefer to stay close to UNC because it helps multiply their brand value.

On the other hand, there are a number of small private ACC schools with limited athletic budgets. ACC football spending will need to increase further and it’s the smaller privates (e.g., Wake, BC and Syracuse) that will struggle finding sufficient boosters/resources. In the current divisional set-up, these low revenue schools are currently joined to the high revenue schools (e.g., FSU, Louisville and Clemson). Maybe going to division-less football will be the first step in helping the ACC transition to more natural divisions in football.
10-15-2021 10:51 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-15-2021 10:51 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  The issue is how to hold Duke accountable to continually invest in football. Both Northwestern and Stanford have put resources into football…so Duke’s peers have already paved a good path.

That’s a misnomer. Stanford isn’t putting university resources into football; they have a few very wealthy donors to athletics. One in particular was especially determined to elevate football from its historically lackluster place by donating millions to rebuild the football stadium and insisting that they hire the head coach of an obscure non-scholarship football team (that worked out pretty well for them).
10-15-2021 11:38 AM
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XLance Online
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Post: #43
RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-15-2021 11:38 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-15-2021 10:51 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  The issue is how to hold Duke accountable to continually invest in football. Both Northwestern and Stanford have put resources into football…so Duke’s peers have already paved a good path.

That’s a misnomer. Stanford isn’t putting university resources into football; they have a few very wealthy donors to athletics. One in particular was especially determined to elevate football from its historically lackluster place by donating millions to rebuild the football stadium and insisting that they hire the head coach of an obscure non-scholarship football team (that worked out pretty well for them).

Stanford announced they were cutting 11 sports in 2020, then ended up not doing so this year because of pressure from athletes and alumni.
10-15-2021 12:10 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-15-2021 10:51 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-15-2021 08:30 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-14-2021 11:21 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 09:28 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  “FSU makes ESPN more money helping to anchor a best of the rest conference designed to keep advertising control over the SE and SW in ESPN hands.”

Completely agree. FSU would likely be accretive in the SEC, but to ESPN they are the essential piece of their lucrative ACC contract. In addition, UNC and Duke are a synergistic partnership (1+1=3)…they complement each other’s athletics and academics. IMO, maximizing athletic revenue is not UNC’s nor Duke’s top objective…these institutions prioritize prestige and will only split-up as a last resort. ESPN needs FSU in the ACC; and FSU’s continued membership reinforces the UNC-Duke journey in the ACC.

Unless Duke de-emphasizes football, I don't see UNC and Duke splitting. For that matter, UVA and UNC either.

Didn't you know? Duke was THE private school football program long before Notre Dame even thought of it (with national championships, major bowl games, the works). They de-emphasized football long ago... they just never bothered to drop down a level.

IMO, Duke loves high-level college athletics. Duke basketball is a monster on social media; Coach K and Jon Scheyer have mastered the one-and-done era; and Duke athletics supports the overall university brand. NIL and payments to student athletes should be manageable hurdles to Duke. The issue is how to hold Duke accountable to continually invest in football. Both Northwestern and Stanford have put resources into football…so Duke’s peers have already paved a good path. Duke will be fine in the ACC, B1G or SEC…they just prefer to stay close to UNC because it helps multiply their brand value.

On the other hand, there are a number of small private ACC schools with limited athletic budgets. ACC football spending will need to increase further and it’s the smaller privates (e.g., Wake, BC and Syracuse) that will struggle finding sufficient boosters/resources. In the current divisional set-up, these low revenue schools are currently joined to the high revenue schools (e.g., FSU, Louisville and Clemson). Maybe going to division-less football will be the first step in helping the ACC transition to more natural divisions in football.

Good points!

One comment: I wouldn't include Syracuse in the "small" private schools. They have more students than Notre Dame or Miami, and nearly as many as UVa!
10-15-2021 01:34 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-15-2021 01:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-15-2021 10:51 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-15-2021 08:30 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-14-2021 11:21 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-13-2021 09:28 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  “FSU makes ESPN more money helping to anchor a best of the rest conference designed to keep advertising control over the SE and SW in ESPN hands.”

Completely agree. FSU would likely be accretive in the SEC, but to ESPN they are the essential piece of their lucrative ACC contract. In addition, UNC and Duke are a synergistic partnership (1+1=3)…they complement each other’s athletics and academics. IMO, maximizing athletic revenue is not UNC’s nor Duke’s top objective…these institutions prioritize prestige and will only split-up as a last resort. ESPN needs FSU in the ACC; and FSU’s continued membership reinforces the UNC-Duke journey in the ACC.

Unless Duke de-emphasizes football, I don't see UNC and Duke splitting. For that matter, UVA and UNC either.

Didn't you know? Duke was THE private school football program long before Notre Dame even thought of it (with national championships, major bowl games, the works). They de-emphasized football long ago... they just never bothered to drop down a level.

IMO, Duke loves high-level college athletics. Duke basketball is a monster on social media; Coach K and Jon Scheyer have mastered the one-and-done era; and Duke athletics supports the overall university brand. NIL and payments to student athletes should be manageable hurdles to Duke. The issue is how to hold Duke accountable to continually invest in football. Both Northwestern and Stanford have put resources into football…so Duke’s peers have already paved a good path. Duke will be fine in the ACC, B1G or SEC…they just prefer to stay close to UNC because it helps multiply their brand value.

On the other hand, there are a number of small private ACC schools with limited athletic budgets. ACC football spending will need to increase further and it’s the smaller privates (e.g., Wake, BC and Syracuse) that will struggle finding sufficient boosters/resources. In the current divisional set-up, these low revenue schools are currently joined to the high revenue schools (e.g., FSU, Louisville and Clemson). Maybe going to division-less football will be the first step in helping the ACC transition to more natural divisions in football.

Good points!

One comment: I wouldn't include Syracuse in the "small" private schools. They have more students than Notre Dame or Miami, and nearly as many as UVa!

You’re right. I’ve been to Syracuse a few times (mainly watching basketball)…the university is beautiful, and pretty large. I must have been projecting because Orange football has struggled in the ACC (except for one great season). Football games against Clemson should have better attendance.
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2021 01:19 PM by Wahoowa84.)
10-16-2021 01:16 PM
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BewareThePhog Offline
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RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
Syracuse certainly has some iconic names in their football history.
10-16-2021 05:54 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-16-2021 01:16 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-15-2021 01:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-15-2021 10:51 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-15-2021 08:30 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-14-2021 11:21 AM)bullet Wrote:  Unless Duke de-emphasizes football, I don't see UNC and Duke splitting. For that matter, UVA and UNC either.

Didn't you know? Duke was THE private school football program long before Notre Dame even thought of it (with national championships, major bowl games, the works). They de-emphasized football long ago... they just never bothered to drop down a level.

IMO, Duke loves high-level college athletics. Duke basketball is a monster on social media; Coach K and Jon Scheyer have mastered the one-and-done era; and Duke athletics supports the overall university brand. NIL and payments to student athletes should be manageable hurdles to Duke. The issue is how to hold Duke accountable to continually invest in football. Both Northwestern and Stanford have put resources into football…so Duke’s peers have already paved a good path. Duke will be fine in the ACC, B1G or SEC…they just prefer to stay close to UNC because it helps multiply their brand value.

On the other hand, there are a number of small private ACC schools with limited athletic budgets. ACC football spending will need to increase further and it’s the smaller privates (e.g., Wake, BC and Syracuse) that will struggle finding sufficient boosters/resources. In the current divisional set-up, these low revenue schools are currently joined to the high revenue schools (e.g., FSU, Louisville and Clemson). Maybe going to division-less football will be the first step in helping the ACC transition to more natural divisions in football.

Good points!

One comment: I wouldn't include Syracuse in the "small" private schools. They have more students than Notre Dame or Miami, and nearly as many as UVa!

You’re right. I’ve been to Syracuse a few times (mainly watching basketball)…the university is beautiful, and pretty large. I must have been projecting because Orange football has struggled in the ACC (except for one great season). Football games against Clemson should have better attendance.

SU has struggled since 2001 and has been consistently mediocre to bad. But as the Phog fan alluded to, Syracuse University has a football tradition that is second to none in the ACC. It has over 22,000 students and one of the top 4-6 athletic revenues in the ACC, which fluctuates on a yearly basis. The Dome seats about 50,000. The team had just under 37,000 for the Clemson game. In normal years the game would have been sold out. But hopefully, folks are wise enough to understand that this year is still not normal, since we are still struggling to control a pandemic.
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2021 10:13 AM by cuseroc.)
10-18-2021 10:11 AM
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XLance Online
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Post: #48
RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-18-2021 10:11 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(10-16-2021 01:16 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-15-2021 01:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-15-2021 10:51 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-15-2021 08:30 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Didn't you know? Duke was THE private school football program long before Notre Dame even thought of it (with national championships, major bowl games, the works). They de-emphasized football long ago... they just never bothered to drop down a level.

IMO, Duke loves high-level college athletics. Duke basketball is a monster on social media; Coach K and Jon Scheyer have mastered the one-and-done era; and Duke athletics supports the overall university brand. NIL and payments to student athletes should be manageable hurdles to Duke. The issue is how to hold Duke accountable to continually invest in football. Both Northwestern and Stanford have put resources into football…so Duke’s peers have already paved a good path. Duke will be fine in the ACC, B1G or SEC…they just prefer to stay close to UNC because it helps multiply their brand value.

On the other hand, there are a number of small private ACC schools with limited athletic budgets. ACC football spending will need to increase further and it’s the smaller privates (e.g., Wake, BC and Syracuse) that will struggle finding sufficient boosters/resources. In the current divisional set-up, these low revenue schools are currently joined to the high revenue schools (e.g., FSU, Louisville and Clemson). Maybe going to division-less football will be the first step in helping the ACC transition to more natural divisions in football.

Good points!

One comment: I wouldn't include Syracuse in the "small" private schools. They have more students than Notre Dame or Miami, and nearly as many as UVa!

You’re right. I’ve been to Syracuse a few times (mainly watching basketball)…the university is beautiful, and pretty large. I must have been projecting because Orange football has struggled in the ACC (except for one great season). Football games against Clemson should have better attendance.

SU has struggled since 2001 and has been consistently mediocre to bad. But as the Phog fan alluded to, Syracuse University has a football tradition that is second to none in the ACC. It has over 22,000 students and one of the top 4-6 athletic revenues in the ACC, which fluctuates on a yearly basis. The Dome seats about 50,000. The team had just under 37,000 for the Clemson game. In normal years the game would have been sold out. But hopefully, folks are wise enough to understand that this year is still not normal, since we are still struggling to control a pandemic.

Tennessee had 102,700+ in their sellout game this weekend against Ole Miss. It was their first sellout in several years.
Politically imposed restrictions have affected the gatherings of large crowds in some parts of the country.
10-18-2021 12:22 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-18-2021 12:22 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(10-18-2021 10:11 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(10-16-2021 01:16 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(10-15-2021 01:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-15-2021 10:51 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  IMO, Duke loves high-level college athletics. Duke basketball is a monster on social media; Coach K and Jon Scheyer have mastered the one-and-done era; and Duke athletics supports the overall university brand. NIL and payments to student athletes should be manageable hurdles to Duke. The issue is how to hold Duke accountable to continually invest in football. Both Northwestern and Stanford have put resources into football…so Duke’s peers have already paved a good path. Duke will be fine in the ACC, B1G or SEC…they just prefer to stay close to UNC because it helps multiply their brand value.

On the other hand, there are a number of small private ACC schools with limited athletic budgets. ACC football spending will need to increase further and it’s the smaller privates (e.g., Wake, BC and Syracuse) that will struggle finding sufficient boosters/resources. In the current divisional set-up, these low revenue schools are currently joined to the high revenue schools (e.g., FSU, Louisville and Clemson). Maybe going to division-less football will be the first step in helping the ACC transition to more natural divisions in football.

Good points!

One comment: I wouldn't include Syracuse in the "small" private schools. They have more students than Notre Dame or Miami, and nearly as many as UVa!

You’re right. I’ve been to Syracuse a few times (mainly watching basketball)…the university is beautiful, and pretty large. I must have been projecting because Orange football has struggled in the ACC (except for one great season). Football games against Clemson should have better attendance.

SU has struggled since 2001 and has been consistently mediocre to bad. But as the Phog fan alluded to, Syracuse University has a football tradition that is second to none in the ACC. It has over 22,000 students and one of the top 4-6 athletic revenues in the ACC, which fluctuates on a yearly basis. The Dome seats about 50,000. The team had just under 37,000 for the Clemson game. In normal years the game would have been sold out. But hopefully, folks are wise enough to understand that this year is still not normal, since we are still struggling to control a pandemic.

Tennessee had 102,700+ in their sellout game this weekend against Ole Miss. It was their first sellout in several years.
Politically imposed restrictions have affected the gatherings of large crowds in some parts of the country.

Very true, although Im not sure if its just because of restrictions or some folks just being cautious. Although I and my whole family are fully vaccinated, Im just not going to be around so many people just yet. I was excited back in June of going to a couple of games since I had not been to a game since 2018, but then the numbers spiked up again. I spent a month down in Florida over the summer and it started getting really bad the week before I came back to NY. In Sarasota, I lost 2 relatives within 9 days of each other back in August. I Lost another close cousin back in December. I just learned last night that my grandson's, other grandfather died yesterday in Winter Haven. All these folks died of covid. From what I hear, there are a lot of folks who lost alot more relatives to covid. I would consider myself to be fortunate, except, its not over yet.
10-18-2021 01:23 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
The overall endowment is always a good measure for a universities ability to raise money. The ACC's privates schools have the following endowments:

Miami - 1.05 B
WF - 1.35 B
Syracuse - 1.39 B
BC - 2.58 B

You probably did not not know how "poor" Miami really is in the scheme of things.

Pitt has 4.17 B (No, the fig leaf of "State Related" is bull ****, Pitt is private as is their Board)
ND has 12.0 B
Duke has 12.7 B

If you look at the private schools with the smallest endowments and then look at their enrollment you get:

WF 5.3K and 3.3 K Grad 8.6K Total
BC 9.3K and 4.3 K Grad 13.6K Total
Miami 11K and 6K Grad 17K Total
Syracuse 14K and 6.8K Grad 20.8K Total

It's easy to identify WF as the smallest private with the largest challenges, but choosing between Miami and BC is difficult. Syracuse is either the largest of the small privates or the smallest of the large privates.
10-18-2021 06:35 PM
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DawgNBama Online
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Post: #51
RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-18-2021 06:35 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The overall endowment is always a good measure for a universities ability to raise money. The ACC's privates schools have the following endowments:

Miami - 1.05 B
WF - 1.35 B
Syracuse - 1.39 B
BC - 2.58 B

You probably did not not know how "poor" Miami really is in the scheme of things.

Pitt has 4.17 B (No, the fig leaf of "State Related" is bull ****, Pitt is private as is their Board)
ND has 12.0 B
Duke has 12.7 B

If you look at the private schools with the smallest endowments and then look at their enrollment you get:

WF 5.3K and 3.3 K Grad 8.6K Total
BC 9.3K and 4.3 K Grad 13.6K Total
Miami 11K and 6K Grad 17K Total
Syracuse 14K and 6.8K Grad 20.8K Total

It's easy to identify WF as the smallest private with the largest challenges, but choosing between Miami and BC is difficult. Syracuse is either the largest of the small privates or the smallest of the large privates.

Until Penn State joins PASSHE, I will add that your comments about Pittsburgh apply to Penn State as well!!!
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2021 02:10 AM by DawgNBama.)
10-19-2021 01:27 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
I would also suggest that UNC and UVa are essentially private even though the cost is not like a private school.

When you get down to it, only NC State, VT, FSU, and Louisville are public to the core.

GT's curriculum and Clemson's 7-6 control of their Board make them different animals as well.
10-19-2021 09:08 AM
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RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-19-2021 09:08 AM)Statefan Wrote:  I would also suggest that UNC and UVa are essentially private even though the cost is not like a private school.

When you get down to it, only NC State, VT, FSU, and Louisville are public to the core.

GT's curriculum and Clemson's 7-6 control of their Board make them different animals as well.

I recognize that this is taking the discussion into a rabbit hole, but…

For the universities with $5+B in endowments, what is the end game of accumulating endowments? Milton Hershey, founder of Hershey Chocolates, left his fortune to the foundation that runs a school for underprivileged kids in central Pennsylvania…the school has billions of dollars, its Trustees have spent decades trying to determine how to spend the money. At some point the endowments are larger than the business need.

Endowments make sense for growing a university, but there is a level at which an endowment is just a waste of good financial resources.
10-19-2021 10:39 AM
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Post: #54
RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-19-2021 09:08 AM)Statefan Wrote:  I would also suggest that UNC and UVa are essentially private even though the cost is not like a private school.

When you get down to it, only NC State, VT, FSU, and Louisville are public to the core.

GT's curriculum and Clemson's 7-6 control of their Board make them different animals as well.

When you get right down to it, only these 4 could truly "fit" in either the B1G or the SEC, with FSU and Louisville being non starters for the B1G.
10-19-2021 11:49 AM
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RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-19-2021 11:49 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(10-19-2021 09:08 AM)Statefan Wrote:  I would also suggest that UNC and UVa are essentially private even though the cost is not like a private school.

When you get down to it, only NC State, VT, FSU, and Louisville are public to the core.

GT's curriculum and Clemson's 7-6 control of their Board make them different animals as well.

When you get right down to it, only these 4 could truly "fit" in either the B1G or the SEC, with FSU and Louisville being non starters for the B1G.

I certainly would not object to Florida State in the Big Ten. I don't see why the Big Ten would. Their academics are good (top 100 USN&WR), location is far away but great demographically, football is down but if they ever got back would be a gold mine. They aren't AAU but neither are several ACC schools.
10-19-2021 02:38 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-19-2021 09:08 AM)Statefan Wrote:  I would also suggest that UNC and UVa are essentially private even though the cost is not like a private school.

When you get down to it, only NC State, VT, FSU, and Louisville are public to the core.

GT's curriculum and Clemson's 7-6 control of their Board make them different animals as well.
I would somewhat agree with that statement.

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10-19-2021 05:24 PM
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DawgNBama Online
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RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-19-2021 02:38 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(10-19-2021 11:49 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(10-19-2021 09:08 AM)Statefan Wrote:  I would also suggest that UNC and UVa are essentially private even though the cost is not like a private school.

When you get down to it, only NC State, VT, FSU, and Louisville are public to the core.

GT's curriculum and Clemson's 7-6 control of their Board make them different animals as well.

When you get right down to it, only these 4 could truly "fit" in either the B1G or the SEC, with FSU and Louisville being non starters for the B1G.

I certainly would not object to Florida State in the Big Ten. I don't see why the Big Ten would. Their academics are good (top 100 USN&WR), location is far away but great demographically, football is down but if they ever got back would be a gold mine. They aren't AAU but neither are several ACC schools.

FSU would be a non-starter for the B1G, just like Georgia Tech and Louisville would be non-starters. The reason being is that none of the three are flagship schools in their own states, nor are they the land grant institutions in their states, and 99% of the B1G is either a flagship school (like Michigan or Indiana) or they are the land grant institution for their state (like Purdue or Michigan State). Other than Georgia Tech, I don't think any of the institutions are AAU, but I could be mistaken. The 1% that I didn't mention is Northwestern, but other than ND, the B1G isn't too fond of private schools.

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(This post was last modified: 10-19-2021 05:36 PM by DawgNBama.)
10-19-2021 05:33 PM
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RE: Comments by Kevin Warren during B1G Basketball media day press conference
(10-19-2021 09:08 AM)Statefan Wrote:  I would also suggest that UNC and UVa are essentially private even though the cost is not like a private school.

When you get down to it, only NC State, VT, FSU, and Louisville are public to the core.

GT's curriculum and Clemson's 7-6 control of their Board make them different animals as well.

If we could move the "public to the core" schools out of the ACC and move Vanderbilt and Notre Dame in, we could have a pretty nifty 12 team league.

Notre Dame, Syracuse, Boston College, Pitt, Duke, Miami
UVa, Carolina, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt
10-20-2021 10:08 AM
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