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UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
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shizzle787 Online
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Post: #1
UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
The MAC is not taking a football-only UMass, but would they take an all-sports UMass?

UMass should seriously consider the move. The A-10 is a multi-bid league in basketball but UMass is not making the tournament anyway. They would be with schools that have similar agendas in the MAC. They would also play some home games on national TV which they are not doing currently.
10-05-2021 08:22 PM
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RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-05-2021 08:22 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The MAC is not taking a football-only UMass, but would they take an all-sports UMass?

UMass should seriously consider the move. The A-10 is a multi-bid league in basketball but UMass is not making the tournament anyway. They would be with schools that have similar agendas in the MAC. They would also play some home games on national TV which they are not doing currently.

UMass burned that bridge several years ago.
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10-05-2021 08:27 PM
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mikeinsec127 Online
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RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
At this point, the MAC does not want to expand. It is a stable bus league. Adding UMass would leave the conference unbalanced and require flying teams in multiple sports. Expanding the footprint that far for one school simply just does not bring in the return on investment for the MAC. I also doubt that UMass is interested in leaving its local and traditional all sports rivals in the A!0 for the MAC. Again there is no return on investment for UMass to make that move.

If anything, UMass and UConn should both consider dropping back down to FCS in football. Both would fit nicely back into the CAA with their former Yankee Conference foes. Having URI, UDel, UNH roll through would probably interest the older alumni. Both schools would save tons in travel and scholarship expenses and even have a chance to be competitive again.
10-05-2021 08:34 PM
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shizzle787 Online
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Post: #4
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-05-2021 08:34 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  At this point, the MAC does not want to expand. It is a stable bus league. Adding UMass would leave the conference unbalanced and require flying teams in multiple sports. Expanding the footprint that far for one school simply just does not bring in the return on investment for the MAC. I also doubt that UMass is interested in leaving its local and traditional all sports rivals in the A!0 for the MAC. Again there is no return on investment for UMass to make that move.

If anything, UMass and UConn should both consider dropping back down to FCS in football. Both would fit nicely back into the CAA with their former Yankee Conference foes. Having URI, UDel, UNH roll through would probably interest the older alumni. Both schools would save tons in travel and scholarship expenses and even have a chance to be competitive again.

I don't know about UMass, but UConn has no interest in dropping to FCS. We have a national TV deal, play 4+ P5 schools home and home a year, and would lose more money at the FCS level.

UMass is an interesting case because they were successful at the FCS level, but not FBS. They have a much smaller fanbase than UConn and share Mass with BC. They don't have a national TV deal and have only played BC and Mizzou home and home in Amherst.
10-05-2021 08:44 PM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #5
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
If I'm UMass, there is absolutely no way I want to have all sports in the MAC, and there are many reasons for this. The MAC is a fine league, very stable and with lots of solid rivalries and history. But UMass basketball works well in the A10.
10-05-2021 08:50 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
No chance, neither side wants that.
10-05-2021 08:51 PM
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Post: #7
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-05-2021 08:34 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  At this point, the MAC does not want to expand. It is a stable bus league. Adding UMass would leave the conference unbalanced and require flying teams in multiple sports. Expanding the footprint that far for one school simply just does not bring in the return on investment for the MAC. I also doubt that UMass is interested in leaving its local and traditional all sports rivals in the A!0 for the MAC. Again there is no return on investment for UMass to make that move.

If anything, UMass and UConn should both consider dropping back down to FCS in football. Both would fit nicely back into the CAA with their former Yankee Conference foes. Having URI, UDel, UNH roll through would probably interest the older alumni. Both schools would save tons in travel and scholarship expenses and even have a chance to be competitive again.

I couldn’t agree more! They’ve been disastrous at RBS.
10-05-2021 08:57 PM
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Curtisc83 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
MAC had a contractual invite for UMASS as long as they became a full member. They refused and wanted to keep BBall in the A10. So that was that and the door was shut.
10-06-2021 06:20 AM
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JMU2004 Offline
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RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-06-2021 06:20 AM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  MAC had a contractual invite for UMASS as long as they became a full member. They refused and wanted to keep BBall in the A10. So that was that and the door was shut.

Also torpedoed JMU's move to FBS in 2014-2015 as the other team to join the MAC had UMass joined.
10-06-2021 06:43 AM
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RamblinRedWolf Online
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Post: #10
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
As an outsider looking in, UMass has to be among the most Ill-conceived move ups in the modern CFB era. Looking back, it seems they had no real plan as to where they were going to go once at the FBS level (their stadium situation between playing at Foxborough and getting their on campus stadium renovated seemed absolutely half-@$$ed) and while the MAC may not have been ideal landing spot gotta think their program would be better off in being in a stable conference rather trying to maintain independence andA10
10-06-2021 06:48 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #11
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-06-2021 06:48 AM)RamblinRedWolf Wrote:  As an outsider looking in, UMass has to be among the most Ill-conceived move ups in the modern CFB era. Looking back, it seems they had no real plan as to where they were going to go once at the FBS level (their stadium situation between playing at Foxborough and getting their on campus stadium renovated seemed absolutely half-@$$ed) and while the MAC may not have been ideal landing spot gotta think their program would be better off in being in a stable conference rather trying to maintain independence andA10

I lean this way too. The A10 is great and all, but UMass has an FBS team. UMass made one tournament this century in the A10, so how is their membership working for them?

Obviously, the AAC with Temple is the goal. They’ve made it no secret they want in, especially after UConn left. Their Indy schedules aren’t bad, but their coaching situation is.

They fired a coach who in 2017 went 4-8 with four losses being one possession.
10-06-2021 08:10 AM
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Post: #12
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
There is a long history in all of this going back to 2005 when the MAC invited Temple, capitalizing on their boot from BE football and Western Kentucky for all sports. The idea of course was to ultimately bring in both to enhance MAC basketball.

WKU was one vote short from joining the MAC as Eastern Michigan didn't vote for them because there was an internal move at the time to get rid of EMU. WKU then decided to move up to FBS with the SBC and then onto CUSA so the assumption was the ship had sailed on that one.

Temple did accept its FB only but it was a phase in where full MAC schedule didn't begin until 2008. That was when MACtion started as a formal TV package with ESPN. Prior to that the MAC experimented with Midweek games starting with Marshall's time in the MAC but it wasn't a structured November format until Temple joined.

The MAC then got a new commissioner in 2009 with Jon Steinbrecher and he put a priority on getting a 14th for FB to balance out Temple. UMass was selected for its academics primarily to join as that 14th.

Then of course Temple leaves to the AAC shortly after and the MAC is faced with what to do with UMass, a school they didn't originally want. The contract was written to allow the MAC to expel UMass after 4 years if it wanted so it did. It was willing enough to give UMass a shot all sports with JMU but UMass didn't want to do it. After expelling UMass, the MAC announced a larger TV deal with ESPN and then a CBS sublicense.

The MAC is now looking at an environment where the XII is now vulnerable to place its champ in the Top 6 like the PAC/ACC. XII is still a big step up when you factor in both FB/BB. AAC 2.0 though is looking a lot like CUSA 2.0 and is no longer going to run away with a Top 6 finish. Its all about Top 6 champion right now whether it be in the current CFP format or an expanded playoff.

The SBC cut Idaho and NMSU to help strength of schedule. The MAC's move cutting UMass had a similar effect. Both conferences redid deals with ESPN and are going to be more significant players for the Top 6 race than before.

What would help the MAC more I would argue is to go to 16 in basketball with Saint Louis, Milwaukee, IL-Chicago, Ill St to saturate the Midwest in MAC basketball and they wouldn't take a cut from the CFP money as would going to 14 or 16 in football would do.
10-06-2021 08:40 AM
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Post: #13
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
Six MAC schools have 20 future football games scheduled with UMass, according to fbschedules.com. And UMass is happy with its other sports where they are. Each gets what it wants, so no reason to change.
10-06-2021 08:57 AM
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Kit-Cat Online
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RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-06-2021 06:48 AM)RamblinRedWolf Wrote:  As an outsider looking in, UMass has to be among the most Ill-conceived move ups in the modern CFB era. Looking back, it seems they had no real plan as to where they were going to go once at the FBS level (their stadium situation between playing at Foxborough and getting their on campus stadium renovated seemed absolutely half-@$$ed) and while the MAC may not have been ideal landing spot gotta think their program would be better off in being in a stable conference rather trying to maintain independence andA10

What surprises me around the northeast indy schools like UMass, UConn and Army to get into a FB conference just to get a cut of the CFP money. Especially when BYU is no longer independent to help lead the charge for independent access to the playoff.

The MAC would definitely expand for Army FB and could pair with UConn FB which while weak would have upper level facilities for the MAC. They could take a half cut from the MAC TV deal and get a full split on the CFP.
10-06-2021 08:59 AM
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RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-05-2021 08:51 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  No chance, neither side wants that.

At one point, the MAC seemed intent on expanding in the East with Temple and UMass football only. Once Temple left for the American Athletic, the MAC seems to have taken a new stance: It will not expand again absent a reason to do so.

When asked about football affiliation by UConn following its departure from the American Athletic, MAC Commissioner Jon Steinbrecher said that it was not going to happen if it cost the conference money. If that was his stance on UConn, we can infer it is much the same with UMass.
10-06-2021 09:25 AM
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Post: #16
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-05-2021 08:50 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  If I'm UMass, there is absolutely no way I want to have all sports in the MAC, and there are many reasons for this. The MAC is a fine league, very stable and with lots of solid rivalries and history. But UMass basketball works well in the A10.

Does UMass basketball work well in the A-10? They have only on tournament appearance this century, and if you take out their run from 92-98 during Calipari’s time (plus the two years after he left) UMass hasn’t been to the tournament since 1962. Calipari’s run was so good I think it clouds our entire perception of UMass basketball.
10-06-2021 09:26 AM
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Post: #17
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
Don't get me wrong, MAC absolutely has no reason to want to add Umass back into the fold. Umass made their bed and now they're stuck at the independent level indefinitely.
10-06-2021 09:44 AM
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RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-06-2021 09:25 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(10-05-2021 08:51 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  No chance, neither side wants that.

At one point, the MAC seemed intent on expanding in the East with Temple and UMass football only. Once Temple left for the American Athletic, the MAC seems to have taken a new stance: It will not expand again absent a reason to do so.

When asked about football affiliation by UConn following its departure from the American Athletic, MAC Commissioner Jon Steinbrecher said that it was not going to happen if it cost the conference money. If that was his stance on UConn, we can infer it is much the same with UMass.

This also goes back to how ESPN is looking at its G5 deals now with a fair market rate for everyone around $40 million or so. If that is the case how much could UConn by itself help the MAC?

MAC would be smarter to try to get a scheduling agreement going in FB with the MWC to have the Top 4 teams play each other, then try to invite the AAC/SBC into the rotation. That might up the TV value for all 4 conferences like this PAC/B1G/ACC alliance is trying to do.
10-06-2021 09:50 AM
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RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-06-2021 09:50 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 09:25 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(10-05-2021 08:51 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  No chance, neither side wants that.

At one point, the MAC seemed intent on expanding in the East with Temple and UMass football only. Once Temple left for the American Athletic, the MAC seems to have taken a new stance: It will not expand again absent a reason to do so.

When asked about football affiliation by UConn following its departure from the American Athletic, MAC Commissioner Jon Steinbrecher said that it was not going to happen if it cost the conference money. If that was his stance on UConn, we can infer it is much the same with UMass.

This also goes back to how ESPN is looking at its G5 deals now with a fair market rate for everyone around $40 million or so. If that is the case how much could UConn by itself help the MAC?

MAC would be smarter to try to get a scheduling agreement going in FB with the MWC to have the Top 4 teams play each other, then try to invite the AAC/SBC into the rotation. That might up the TV value for all 4 conferences like this PAC/B1G/ACC alliance is trying to do.

I'd be down for a MAC/SBC/MWC scheduling alliance 04-cheers
10-06-2021 10:05 AM
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RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
The solution to "What's Wrong With School X" is never "School X should join a conference with teams that none of its fans care about."

UMass made a huge mistake going FBS. When you make a huge mistake, you don't double down on it by further alienating your fans. No, the A-10 isn't what it was when UMass was in its heyday in the 90's as a northeast based multi-bid conference. But it is still a multi-bid conference. And there are still teams in the A-10 that UMass's fans care about.

I would also question why UMass football is automatically better off in the MAC than it is as an independent. It isn't going to win games in either scenario, it isn't going to draw fans in either scenario, it isn't going to make money in either scenario. So why rearrange those deck chairs and make all of your other sports worse off?
10-06-2021 10:20 AM
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