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UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
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Fishpro10987 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-05-2021 08:22 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The MAC is not taking a football-only UMass, but would they take an all-sports UMass?

UMass should seriously consider the move. The A-10 is a multi-bid league in basketball but UMass is not making the tournament anyway. They would be with schools that have similar agendas in the MAC. They would also play some home games on national TV which they are not doing currently.

I agree. The A 10 is not serving their interests. Add JMU or Delaware (if the are interested) and the MAC adds some interesting inventory to ESPN. UMASS needs to play for championships in football, otherwise recruiting is hell.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2021 02:12 AM by Fishpro10987.)
10-07-2021 06:46 PM
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Post: #62
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-07-2021 01:44 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(10-07-2021 01:22 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-07-2021 12:49 PM)schmolik Wrote:  UConn at least has basketball (men's and women's) to help them remain a respectable school, kind of like Kansas does. Unfortunately for UMass, John Calipari and Marcus Camby left 25 years ago.

UConn made the move to at least save its men's basketball team when it moved from the AAC to the Big East. They may have hurt their football program but if their men's basketball gets back to regularly competing for NCAA Tournaments I think it's worth it. I'd gladly sacrifice Temple's football team if we can go back to John Chaney level performance. Problem is the Big East likely doesn't take Temple.

In all fairness, UMass didn't stick their basketball team anywhere nonsensical for the sake of football - the A10's a solid basketball league and there's no reason that UMass can't be an above-average A10 squad that sometimes makes the tournament. Basically, UMass should be doing everything that URI's managed to do lately. They just haven't, which is a separate issue.

And this is the crux of why some of us are arguing that UMass shouldn't jump at the MAC or CUSA- football aside, UMass is where it should be for the rest of its sports. I don't think there is enough upside in UMass football to justify upending UMass's A-10 membership. If UMass could get into the P5, sure! But the incremental steps that would need to be taken to get UMass to the point that UConn couldn't reach would take the better part of a century. This isn't college football country up here. UMass football isn't going to turn into a huge draw for 40,000 fans/weekend even if they start going 8-4 in CUSA or the MAC.
Nobody that is in the G5 or a private school not named Miami, USC, Notre Dame, or BYU is going to get 40,000 in attendance!! Sheesh, ccd, even Alabama is having second thoughts about the size of their stadium now due to the pandemic!!!!

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10-07-2021 07:04 PM
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Post: #63
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-06-2021 10:46 AM)esayem Wrote:  Marshall, UCF, and Temple (fb-only) stretched the footprint but all have used MAC membership to move up the totem poll. Now UB is being hailed as an AAC replacement, a conference UMass openly covets joining.

Marshall should have never had to rejoin the MAC. In 1995 we had the votes to become a Charter member of CUSA. That was until Louisville's Denny Crum started bellyaching and got Memphis and UAB to change their vote. Marshall was then offered a football only invite which they would have taken if they could have secured a sport for basketball and olympic sports. Marshall got an invite to join the Midwestern Collegiate Conference (Horizon League). Three days before they were to vote us in the MCC Commissioner Jon LeCrone got wind that Marshall would only be in the MCC long enough to get full membership to CUSA, which would have been 2-3 years down the road. The conference had a special meeting and rescinded Marshall's invite. Leaving Marshall no choice to join the MAC if they wanted to move up.
10-07-2021 07:15 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #64
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-07-2021 07:15 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 10:46 AM)esayem Wrote:  Marshall, UCF, and Temple (fb-only) stretched the footprint but all have used MAC membership to move up the totem poll. Now UB is being hailed as an AAC replacement, a conference UMass openly covets joining.

Marshall should have never had to rejoin the MAC. In 1995 we had the votes to become a Charter member of CUSA. That was until Louisville's Denny Crum started bellyaching and got Memphis and UAB to change their vote. Marshall was then offered a football only invite which they would have taken if they could have secured a sport for basketball and olympic sports. Marshall got an invite to join the Midwestern Collegiate Conference (Horizon League). Three days before they were to vote us in the MCC Commissioner Jon LeCrone got wind that Marshall would only be in the MCC long enough to get full membership to CUSA, which would have been 2-3 years down the road. The conference had a special meeting and rescinded Marshall's invite. Leaving Marshall no choice to join the MAC if they wanted to move up.

Interesting! Thanks for sharing.

I believe I read UCF had an all-sports invite to the Sun Belt but declined and instead took MAC membership.
10-07-2021 07:40 PM
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esayem Offline
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RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
Probably not a popular opinion, but UMass should hire a defensive minded coach and run an old school smash-mouth triple option. Take advantage of that Independent schedule and hit teams with an offense they’re not used to.

Some of these programs should focus on being great college teams if they’re not attracting a bunch of future pros on offense.
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2021 07:53 PM by esayem.)
10-07-2021 07:52 PM
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Post: #66
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-07-2021 07:15 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 10:46 AM)esayem Wrote:  Marshall, UCF, and Temple (fb-only) stretched the footprint but all have used MAC membership to move up the totem poll. Now UB is being hailed as an AAC replacement, a conference UMass openly covets joining.

Marshall should have never had to rejoin the MAC. In 1995 we had the votes to become a Charter member of CUSA. That was until Louisville's Denny Crum started bellyaching and got Memphis and UAB to change their vote. Marshall was then offered a football only invite which they would have taken if they could have secured a sport for basketball and olympic sports. Marshall got an invite to join the Midwestern Collegiate Conference (Horizon League). Three days before they were to vote us in the MCC Commissioner Jon LeCrone got wind that Marshall would only be in the MCC long enough to get full membership to CUSA, which would have been 2-3 years down the road. The conference had a special meeting and rescinded Marshall's invite. Leaving Marshall no choice to join the MAC if they wanted to move up.

Don't believe that. Marshal was FCS at the time and ECU didn't get invited to CUSA for a while.
10-07-2021 07:54 PM
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Post: #67
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-07-2021 07:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-07-2021 07:15 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 10:46 AM)esayem Wrote:  Marshall, UCF, and Temple (fb-only) stretched the footprint but all have used MAC membership to move up the totem poll. Now UB is being hailed as an AAC replacement, a conference UMass openly covets joining.

Marshall should have never had to rejoin the MAC. In 1995 we had the votes to become a Charter member of CUSA. That was until Louisville's Denny Crum started bellyaching and got Memphis and UAB to change their vote. Marshall was then offered a football only invite which they would have taken if they could have secured a sport for basketball and olympic sports. Marshall got an invite to join the Midwestern Collegiate Conference (Horizon League). Three days before they were to vote us in the MCC Commissioner Jon LeCrone got wind that Marshall would only be in the MCC long enough to get full membership to CUSA, which would have been 2-3 years down the road. The conference had a special meeting and rescinded Marshall's invite. Leaving Marshall no choice to join the MAC if they wanted to move up.

Don't believe that. Marshal was FCS at the time and ECU didn't get invited to CUSA for a while.

You can believe it or not, won't hurt my feelings. Marshall may have been IAA as the designation FCS was not even a thought yet. Marshall had won 40 games from 1991-1994 and a IAA title in 1992. Also Marshall was ranked in the top 25 the year they jumped in 1997, only lost 1 game in 1998 (Finished ranked 17th) and had a perfect season only 2 years in, 1999 13-0 (Finished ranked 10).

In just Marshall's 1997 1st year there was 22 players off that team that ended up with at least an NFL tryout and then you had players like Chad Pinnington, Randy Moss, Doug Chapman and Rogers Beckett drafted.

The 2 year transition years exist because of Marshall.
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2021 09:22 PM by HerdZoned.)
10-07-2021 09:21 PM
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Post: #68
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-07-2021 07:52 PM)esayem Wrote:  Probably not a popular opinion, but UMass should hire a defensive minded coach and run an old school smash-mouth triple option. Take advantage of that Independent schedule and hit teams with an offense they’re not used to.

Some of these programs should focus on being great college teams if they’re not attracting a bunch of future pros on offense.

I would LOVE if UMass ran the triple option. Not sure he'd do it for a $1M/year or whatever we could put together, but I wish UMass would go after someone like Brian Bohannon from Kennesaw State. Also not sure I want to wait another 4 years for a total roster rebuild though.
10-08-2021 12:49 AM
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Post: #69
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-07-2021 07:52 PM)esayem Wrote:  Probably not a popular opinion, but UMass should hire a defensive minded coach and run an old school smash-mouth triple option. Take advantage of that Independent schedule and hit teams with an offense they’re not used to.

Some of these programs should focus on being great college teams if they’re not attracting a bunch of future pros on offense.

It's always worth considering developing a system that goes to the strengths of the player that you can recruit. Though it might get harder to get some of the buy games if you are requiring them to prepare for an offense they are not going to see again that year.
10-08-2021 09:17 AM
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Post: #70
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-07-2021 06:46 PM)Fishpro10987 Wrote:  
(10-05-2021 08:22 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The MAC is not taking a football-only UMass, but would they take an all-sports UMass?

UMass should seriously consider the move. The A-10 is a multi-bid league in basketball but UMass is not making the tournament anyway. They would be with schools that have similar agendas in the MAC. They would also play some home games on national TV which they are not doing currently.

I agree. The A 10 is not serving their interests. Add JMU or Delaware (if the are interested and the MAC adds some interesting inventory to ESPN. UMASS needs to play for championships in football, otherwise recruiting is hell.

Agree with this Fishpro. UMass needs to accept a football home, when offered. The A10 is good and provides at least a handful of reasonably bus trips for Olympic sports as URI, Fordham, 2 Philly teams and more on the edge as the MAC East with DC area of George Mason, GW and then Olean, NY and the Dukes out in Pittsburg. With the MAC or CUSA you lose the first 4 close teams but there is OOC play. The AAC was desired with UConn. Do think if invited would join despite it being unstable with potential of losing Memphis, but there are east coast teams and multi bid BB conference.
10-08-2021 11:00 AM
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Post: #71
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-07-2021 02:32 PM)No Bull Wrote:  UMass just needs to be sustainable in football. If they could average 25k and play .500 football they would be drawing interest or at least be in the realignment discussion.

UMass is not going to average 25k in football unless and until they are a top ten program. Until then, no one is going to give a ****.
10-08-2021 12:05 PM
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Post: #72
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-08-2021 12:05 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(10-07-2021 02:32 PM)No Bull Wrote:  UMass just needs to be sustainable in football. If they could average 25k and play .500 football they would be drawing interest or at least be in the realignment discussion.

UMass is not going to average 25k in football unless and until they are a top ten program. Until then, no one is going to give a ****.

Except for Buy One / Get One Free Beer day, I bet they could get quite a number of students to turn out for that. Though, OTOH, they might want it to be a non-televised game, and finding the beer company willing to sponsor that for a non-televised game could be tricky.
10-08-2021 12:11 PM
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Post: #73
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
UMass and UConn are psychologically intertwined again now in football. While I can't complain about UConn's independent schedules, it will only be a success if UConn can recruit and win against some of the P5 opponents on those schedules. As has been said in this thread on UMass, recruiting as an independent can be hard due to no conference championship game and no bowl tie-ins. Losing seasons with no bowl eligibility won't get butts in the seats just because we are playing more P5 teams. We flat out need to win more. UConn does have some advantages over some other independents (P5 level facilities, brand recognition, and a national linear TV deal), but only time will tell if this was a wise idea.

Part of me thinks that UConn and UMass should eventually join forces and push themselves as a football only pair to the MAC if independence isn't kind to them. They are still fairly close to the MAC footprint and the slight bit of extra difference won't matter as olympic sports aren't in play, just football. The MAC gets two flagship/land grant state universities and access to the New England-NYC television markets. UConn and UMass get a stable home where they could play for something. Also, MAC membership would allow them to improve and, I believe, thrive. Are MAC schools as sexy on the schedule as some of the P5s that UConn gets to play at home? No. But if playing competitive football is the endgame, then it makes some sense.
10-08-2021 12:19 PM
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Post: #74
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-06-2021 02:38 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Here is something I don't get the ASUN wants to add football. Why not go after UCONN, UMASS & NMSU for football only schools. If they could get Liberty, then in theory that is four teams. Bring up the other four teams to FBS. Add some HBCU's like NC A&T, Norfolk State and Jackson St and I imagine there would be financial support provided to help the conference. Then again, probably not as simple as it sounds.


Huh? We're a southern based fcs conference right now. It's alot of schools with ambition to move up, but none of our members are actually ready for a jump up. There is no need for us to stretch ourselves up to Connecticut and Massachusetts and as far west as new mexico!

We need to keep it tight geographically to keep costs down. We need close games to travel to so that students and alumni care about the teams were playing and go to the games. We don't need to travel to the other side of the country to play a game between two schools that have nothing to do with eachother with no fans in the seats. Our non-football members already think the football schools we've added are too far away.
10-08-2021 12:32 PM
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Post: #75
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-08-2021 12:49 AM)McKinney Wrote:  
(10-07-2021 07:52 PM)esayem Wrote:  Probably not a popular opinion, but UMass should hire a defensive minded coach and run an old school smash-mouth triple option. Take advantage of that Independent schedule and hit teams with an offense they’re not used to.

Some of these programs should focus on being great college teams if they’re not attracting a bunch of future pros on offense.

I would LOVE if UMass ran the triple option. Not sure he'd do it for a $1M/year or whatever we could put together, but I wish UMass would go after someone like Brian Bohannon from Kennesaw State. Also not sure I want to wait another 4 years for a total roster rebuild though.

I love the idea that Coach Bo would turn down a million a year. Please keep thinking he's out of your pruve range. We're totally paying him more than a mil a year. For sure. It's not 400k. No sireee. It's enough so much money you'd have no chance at luring him away.
10-08-2021 12:39 PM
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ken d Online
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Post: #76
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-06-2021 12:35 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 09:26 AM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  
(10-05-2021 08:50 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  If I'm UMass, there is absolutely no way I want to have all sports in the MAC, and there are many reasons for this. The MAC is a fine league, very stable and with lots of solid rivalries and history. But UMass basketball works well in the A10.

Does UMass basketball work well in the A-10? They have only on tournament appearance this century, and if you take out their run from 92-98 during Calipari’s time (plus the two years after he left) UMass hasn’t been to the tournament since 1962. Calipari’s run was so good I think it clouds our entire perception of UMass basketball.


I suppose it works well, specifically, for travel, rivalries and fan interest. I could be wrong.

As a Memphis fan, I would be fine with the AAC adding UMass because the Minutemen hoops program offers a solid history and UMass is a "basketball school." I'm in the minority compared to most AAC fans.

Bill, I think a lot of people make the mistake of assuming that because UMass sucks at football they must be a "basketball school". They are not. Dr. J is not coming back and neither is Camby. Take those few years out of their history and UMass has just been mediocre at best. I don't know what sport they're good at, but it's not hoops.

There really isn't any FBS conference that should be interested in the Minutemen. They are lucky to have gotten in to the A-10 before anyone realized how little they bring to the table.
10-08-2021 12:57 PM
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Post: #77
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-06-2021 09:50 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  MAC would be smarter to try to get a scheduling agreement going in FB with the MWC to have the Top 4 teams play each other, then try to invite the AAC/SBC into the rotation. That might up the TV value for all 4 conferences like this PAC/B1G/ACC alliance is trying to do.

I don't think you could do "top 4" but an all out top 10 with the SBC would be interesting. Even better if they get to 12..

Have the MAC host one year (in September / Early October) and the SBC host the next year (In Late October / November). So every team in the conference knows they will have a "road/home" game TBA on the same week and the conferences can take care of the logistics ahead of time.

For the bottom two MAC teams grab a couple of independents and make the same deal with them (UConn/UMass)
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2021 01:11 PM by Bull_In_Exile.)
10-08-2021 01:10 PM
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Post: #78
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-07-2021 07:04 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(10-07-2021 01:44 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(10-07-2021 01:22 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-07-2021 12:49 PM)schmolik Wrote:  UConn at least has basketball (men's and women's) to help them remain a respectable school, kind of like Kansas does. Unfortunately for UMass, John Calipari and Marcus Camby left 25 years ago.

UConn made the move to at least save its men's basketball team when it moved from the AAC to the Big East. They may have hurt their football program but if their men's basketball gets back to regularly competing for NCAA Tournaments I think it's worth it. I'd gladly sacrifice Temple's football team if we can go back to John Chaney level performance. Problem is the Big East likely doesn't take Temple.

In all fairness, UMass didn't stick their basketball team anywhere nonsensical for the sake of football - the A10's a solid basketball league and there's no reason that UMass can't be an above-average A10 squad that sometimes makes the tournament. Basically, UMass should be doing everything that URI's managed to do lately. They just haven't, which is a separate issue.

And this is the crux of why some of us are arguing that UMass shouldn't jump at the MAC or CUSA- football aside, UMass is where it should be for the rest of its sports. I don't think there is enough upside in UMass football to justify upending UMass's A-10 membership. If UMass could get into the P5, sure! But the incremental steps that would need to be taken to get UMass to the point that UConn couldn't reach would take the better part of a century. This isn't college football country up here. UMass football isn't going to turn into a huge draw for 40,000 fans/weekend even if they start going 8-4 in CUSA or the MAC.
Nobody that is in the G5 or a private school not named Miami, USC, Notre Dame, or BYU is going to get 40,000 in attendance!! Sheesh, ccd, even Alabama is having second thoughts about the size of their stadium now due to the pandemic!!!!

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I suppose. But years ago I worked at TCU (when they were in the MWC). I think we frequently had 35-40K in attendance. Heck, NDSU v. Butler in Target Field (in Minneapolis) in 2019 had 35,000 in attendance. If you're a consistently decent team, you're going to generate fan interest. Even in the G5.
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2021 01:53 PM by NDSUGopher.)
10-08-2021 01:52 PM
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Post: #79
RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-08-2021 12:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 12:35 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 09:26 AM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  
(10-05-2021 08:50 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  If I'm UMass, there is absolutely no way I want to have all sports in the MAC, and there are many reasons for this. The MAC is a fine league, very stable and with lots of solid rivalries and history. But UMass basketball works well in the A10.

Does UMass basketball work well in the A-10? They have only on tournament appearance this century, and if you take out their run from 92-98 during Calipari’s time (plus the two years after he left) UMass hasn’t been to the tournament since 1962. Calipari’s run was so good I think it clouds our entire perception of UMass basketball.


I suppose it works well, specifically, for travel, rivalries and fan interest. I could be wrong.

As a Memphis fan, I would be fine with the AAC adding UMass because the Minutemen hoops program offers a solid history and UMass is a "basketball school." I'm in the minority compared to most AAC fans.

Bill, I think a lot of people make the mistake of assuming that because UMass sucks at football they must be a "basketball school". They are not. Dr. J is not coming back and neither is Camby. Take those few years out of their history and UMass has just been mediocre at best. I don't know what sport they're good at, but it's not hoops.

There really isn't any FBS conference that should be interested in the Minutemen. They are lucky to have gotten in to the A-10 before anyone realized how little they bring to the table.

I’m pretty sure they were good back in the day outside of the 80’s. You have to consider the tournament was smaller and UConn was probably the best in their conference.
10-08-2021 02:45 PM
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RE: UMass should try to get into the MAC for all sports.
(10-08-2021 12:05 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(10-07-2021 02:32 PM)No Bull Wrote:  UMass just needs to be sustainable in football. If they could average 25k and play .500 football they would be drawing interest or at least be in the realignment discussion.

UMass is not going to average 25k in football unless and until they are a top ten program. Until then, no one is going to give a ****.

Take it from the Maine fan!
10-08-2021 02:47 PM
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