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All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
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Stammers Online
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Post: #41
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
(10-06-2021 01:23 PM)griffin Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 01:22 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 12:56 PM)griffin Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 12:44 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 12:20 PM)griffin Wrote:  As much of a pain this is unless something changes within the NCAA - Booster - paid money to HS Player, that HS player can't go to school where booster is a booster. Level 1 violation.

The IARP path is only for complicated or serious cases - that alone tells you this is far more than the probability of getting a slap on the wrist or it would not have be have been accepted.

Lets hope w the NIL deals there is a lighter sentence coming. This is the first case coming out of the IARP process - hard for me to believe it will be light - the probability is too great for a simple slap on the wrist.

The IARP group is not the NCAA, its a different path w a entire different group of people who are outside the NCAA. They can accept the evidence obtained by the NCAA or/and do their own diligence.

Worth going to site to read up on who is on which panel and what their charter states.

Lady from UT on there btw - all from outside the NCAA - some sports arbitrators etc - those may help.

Oklahoma State for one Level 1 violation received 2 years probation, no NCAA and Conference tourney for one year plus about 6 or so other sanctions.

In hindsight, it was not a good idea to play Wiseman regardless of anyone's opinion on this - there will be a penalty to pay for this.

Let's hope the strung out process helps. Based on who I have spoken with, there is hope this will not be serious - you only "hope" when you expect the news to be bad.

New process - part of me wants this to be over with because it is being used against us and not for the NIL, this would have been a tough road. Other part is wanting to enjoy the season and get the news in April and deal with it then.

They cannot be unbiased and claim a level 1 violation. This was disclosed to the NCAA prior to Wiseman enrolling and they cleared it. This is dramatically different than the OK State situation.

...was informed it was not disclosed prior not sure where you heard it was - hopes this helps...several steps to clearing a player like a 5 star, different than most players - you can get an initial clearing - they then take a deeper dive if they feel necessary, which they did...disclosure came then...they NCAA reached out to Memphis at the time, which did not know about this and they both opened a joint investigation.

Not cut or dry either way - it's according to how you look at it.

When the payment was made, Wiseman wasn't even on our radar. 6 months before Penny took the job, Tubby hadn't recruited him, and he didn't even have an offer from us. Not only was Penny not recruiting him to Memphis, he also steered Lomax, Boyce, Dandridge, and Jeffries AWAY from Memphis. He sent Lomax to a conference rival even though he is his guardian and both of them are Memphians, Jeffries had already committed to Kentucky, and Boyce had already committed to UAB. Clearly, in no shape or form resembling a staffer at Oklahoma State getting recruits paid tens of thousands of dollars to attend Oklahoma State.

Wiseman NOT Offered By Memphis In 2017

Essentially, you can prove that Penny recruited AGAINST Memphis right up to the day he got the job. So, is he a booster? Yes. Was he acting in the best interests of Memphis when he was an AAU coach? Clearly, he was acting directly against the best interests of the school.

Big difference.

The NCAA disagrees with you, hence the pending IARP case. They call the shots.

And that is the whole point. The NCAA lets schools routinely skate for violations in the tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars, and they went out of their way to screw us. All of the assistants that have been punished (Lamont Evans, Chuck Person, Book Richardson, Tony Bland) are black; none of the white coaches (Self, Pitino, Miller, Pearl, Wade) have been punished yet. Penny will be the first and only coach punished for 12k in moving expenses that was paid when he was sending Wiseman and Jeffries to Kentucky, Lomax to Wichita and Boyce to UAB?

One component to the IARP that is both good and bad, is that they can do their own investigating. So they can find more, but they have to be up on NCAA rules, they are also able to investigate and decide on punishment based on the facts, precedent and context. They have everything they need on wiretap to get a sense of scale when it comes to what we did, compared to Louisville, Arizona, Kansas, Auburn and LSU.

In the end, it shouldn't matter what you know and don't know. It should come down to the rules, context, and the school's knowledge and complicity or lack thereof.
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2021 01:55 PM by Stammers.)
10-06-2021 01:54 PM
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griffin Offline
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Post: #42
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
(10-06-2021 01:54 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 01:23 PM)griffin Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 01:22 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 12:56 PM)griffin Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 12:44 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  They cannot be unbiased and claim a level 1 violation. This was disclosed to the NCAA prior to Wiseman enrolling and they cleared it. This is dramatically different than the OK State situation.

...was informed it was not disclosed prior not sure where you heard it was - hopes this helps...several steps to clearing a player like a 5 star, different than most players - you can get an initial clearing - they then take a deeper dive if they feel necessary, which they did...disclosure came then...they NCAA reached out to Memphis at the time, which did not know about this and they both opened a joint investigation.

Not cut or dry either way - it's according to how you look at it.

When the payment was made, Wiseman wasn't even on our radar. 6 months before Penny took the job, Tubby hadn't recruited him, and he didn't even have an offer from us. Not only was Penny not recruiting him to Memphis, he also steered Lomax, Boyce, Dandridge, and Jeffries AWAY from Memphis. He sent Lomax to a conference rival even though he is his guardian and both of them are Memphians, Jeffries had already committed to Kentucky, and Boyce had already committed to UAB. Clearly, in no shape or form resembling a staffer at Oklahoma State getting recruits paid tens of thousands of dollars to attend Oklahoma State.

Wiseman NOT Offered By Memphis In 2017

Essentially, you can prove that Penny recruited AGAINST Memphis right up to the day he got the job. So, is he a booster? Yes. Was he acting in the best interests of Memphis when he was an AAU coach? Clearly, he was acting directly against the best interests of the school.

Big difference.

The NCAA disagrees with you, hence the pending IARP case. They call the shots.

And that is the whole point. The NCAA lets schools routinely skate for violations in the tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars, and they went out of their way to screw us. All of the assistants that have been punished (Lamont Evans, Chuck Person, Book Richardson, Tony Bland) are black; none of the white coaches (Self, Pitino, Miller, Pearl, Wade) have been punished yet. Penny will be the first and only coach punished for 12k in moving expenses that was paid when he was sending Wiseman and Jeffries to Kentucky, Lomax to Wichita and Boyce to UAB?

One component to the IARP that is both good and bad, is that they can do their own investigating. So they can find more, but they have to be up on NCAA rules, they are also able to investigate and decide on punishment based on the facts, precedent and context. They have everything they need on wiretap to get a sense of scale when it comes to what we did, compared to Louisville, Arizona, Kansas, Auburn and LSU.

In the end, it shouldn't matter what you know and don't know. It should come down to the rules, context, and the school's knowledge and complicity or lack thereof.

There is no question the NCAA has looked away as blue bloods of both sports have done the same or worse. That is on them. We are not one of those so lets "hope" as I have heard internally the outcome is positive.

Let's hope there is a change in path, this team has a very special appeal about them - especially on defense - w such length. Could be an amazing season.
10-06-2021 02:05 PM
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mairving Online
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Post: #43
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
(10-06-2021 12:49 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 12:44 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 12:20 PM)griffin Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 10:04 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 09:54 AM)poppaslaw Wrote:  Oh he's going to miss games but much more than 3.

Penny aint getting suspended...

He didn't do anything wrong as far as the NCAA is concerned.

Yeah he broke a bunch of TSAA rules...But he didn't break any NCAA rules when he paid Wiseman.

As much of a pain this is unless something changes within the NCAA - Booster - paid money to HS Player, that HS player can't go to school where booster is a booster. Level 1 violation.

The IARP path is only for complicated or serious cases - that alone tells you this is far more than the probability of getting a slap on the wrist or it would not have be have been accepted.

Lets hope w the NIL deals there is a lighter sentence coming. This is the first case coming out of the IARP process - hard for me to believe it will be light - the probability is too great for a simple slap on the wrist.

The IARP group is not the NCAA, its a different path w a entire different group of people who are outside the NCAA. They can accept the evidence obtained by the NCAA or/and do their own diligence.

Worth going to site to read up on who is on which panel and what their charter states.

Lady from UT on there btw - all from outside the NCAA - some sports arbitrators etc - those may help.

Oklahoma State for one Level 1 violation received 2 years probation, no NCAA and Conference tourney for one year plus about 6 or so other sanctions.

In hindsight, it was not a good idea to play Wiseman regardless of anyone's opinion on this - there will be a penalty to pay for this.

Let's hope the strung out process helps. Based on who I have spoken with, there is hope this will not be serious - you only "hope" when you expect the news to be bad.

New process - part of me wants this to be over with because it is being used against us and not for the NIL, this would have been a tough road. Other part is wanting to enjoy the season and get the news in April and deal with it then.

They cannot be unbiased and claim a level 1 violation. This was disclosed to the NCAA prior to Wiseman enrolling and they cleared it. This is dramatically different than the OK State situation.

Oklahoma State received a postseason ban, three years probation, and significant recruiting restrictions in addition to a fine and a percentage owed from the budget to the NCAA. That was appealed and that allowed Cade Cunningham to play in the tournament. As long as it's under appeal it's as if it never happened. The NCAA said that they could find no evidence that anyone knew anything except for the assistant that took the bribe. Of course, after they fired the assistant they went out and hired Cade Cunningham's brother.

USC also had an assistant that took a bribe albeit a smaller amount. They were only penalized with 2 years of probation, fined $5000 plus 1% of the men's basketball budget along with a few self-imposed penalties reducing scholarships and recruiting days.

In our case, the IARP process has no appeal. You have to accept the verdict as it is.

The NCAA is consistently inconsistent but tends to be consistent in punishing schools that are outside the blue blood club.
10-06-2021 02:48 PM
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MemTigers1998 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
So what folks around the university are sensing is that Penny will get punished heavily?
10-06-2021 03:11 PM
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OldFan Online
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Post: #45
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
griffin, are you saying that folks around the school think they will get punished heavily, or that they won't? I've gotten both impressions from your posts (which are much appreciated).
10-06-2021 03:42 PM
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fishman6581 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
(10-06-2021 02:05 PM)griffin Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 01:54 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 01:23 PM)griffin Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 01:22 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 12:56 PM)griffin Wrote:  ...was informed it was not disclosed prior not sure where you heard it was - hopes this helps...several steps to clearing a player like a 5 star, different than most players - you can get an initial clearing - they then take a deeper dive if they feel necessary, which they did...disclosure came then...they NCAA reached out to Memphis at the time, which did not know about this and they both opened a joint investigation.

Not cut or dry either way - it's according to how you look at it.

When the payment was made, Wiseman wasn't even on our radar. 6 months before Penny took the job, Tubby hadn't recruited him, and he didn't even have an offer from us. Not only was Penny not recruiting him to Memphis, he also steered Lomax, Boyce, Dandridge, and Jeffries AWAY from Memphis. He sent Lomax to a conference rival even though he is his guardian and both of them are Memphians, Jeffries had already committed to Kentucky, and Boyce had already committed to UAB. Clearly, in no shape or form resembling a staffer at Oklahoma State getting recruits paid tens of thousands of dollars to attend Oklahoma State.

Wiseman NOT Offered By Memphis In 2017

Essentially, you can prove that Penny recruited AGAINST Memphis right up to the day he got the job. So, is he a booster? Yes. Was he acting in the best interests of Memphis when he was an AAU coach? Clearly, he was acting directly against the best interests of the school.

Big difference.

The NCAA disagrees with you, hence the pending IARP case. They call the shots.

And that is the whole point. The NCAA lets schools routinely skate for violations in the tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars, and they went out of their way to screw us. All of the assistants that have been punished (Lamont Evans, Chuck Person, Book Richardson, Tony Bland) are black; none of the white coaches (Self, Pitino, Miller, Pearl, Wade) have been punished yet. Penny will be the first and only coach punished for 12k in moving expenses that was paid when he was sending Wiseman and Jeffries to Kentucky, Lomax to Wichita and Boyce to UAB?

One component to the IARP that is both good and bad, is that they can do their own investigating. So they can find more, but they have to be up on NCAA rules, they are also able to investigate and decide on punishment based on the facts, precedent and context. They have everything they need on wiretap to get a sense of scale when it comes to what we did, compared to Louisville, Arizona, Kansas, Auburn and LSU.

In the end, it shouldn't matter what you know and don't know. It should come down to the rules, context, and the school's knowledge and complicity or lack thereof.

There is no question the NCAA has looked away as blue bloods of both sports have done the same or worse. That is on them. We are not one of those so lets "hope" as I have heard internally the outcome is positive.

Let's hope there is a change in path, this team has a very special appeal about them - especially on defense - w such length. Could be an amazing season.

Let's hope they do. If y'all knew the ridiculous things the NCAA asked for in clearing Wiseman, it'd make you sick. They are as corrupt of an entity as ever has existed.
10-06-2021 04:17 PM
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Post: #47
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
(10-06-2021 12:20 PM)griffin Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 10:04 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 09:54 AM)poppaslaw Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 06:39 AM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  Memphis played Wiseman 3 games before sitting him. At the most, the NCAA should mandate Penny miss 3 games. That would be the reasonable thing to do but this is the NCAA.

Oh he's going to miss games but much more than 3.

Penny aint getting suspended...

He didn't do anything wrong as far as the NCAA is concerned.

Yeah he broke a bunch of TSAA rules...But he didn't break any NCAA rules when he paid Wiseman.

As much of a pain this is unless something changes within the NCAA - Booster - paid money to HS Player, that HS player can't go to school where booster is a booster. Level 1 violation.

The IARP path is only for complicated or serious cases - that alone tells you this is far more than the probability of getting a slap on the wrist or it would not have be have been accepted.

Lets hope w the NIL deals there is a lighter sentence coming. This is the first case coming out of the IARP process - hard for me to believe it will be light - the probability is too great for a simple slap on the wrist.

The IARP group is not the NCAA, its a different path w a entire different group of people who are outside the NCAA. They can accept the evidence obtained by the NCAA or/and do their own diligence.

Worth going to site to read up on who is on which panel and what their charter states.

Lady from UT on there btw - all from outside the NCAA - some sports arbitrators etc - those may help.

Oklahoma State for one Level 1 violation received 2 years probation, no NCAA and Conference tourney for one year plus about 6 or so other sanctions.

In hindsight, it was not a good idea to play Wiseman regardless of anyone's opinion on this - there will be a penalty to pay for this.

Let's hope the strung out process helps. Based on who I have spoken with, there is hope this will not be serious - you only "hope" when you expect the news to be bad.

New process - part of me wants this to be over with because it is being used against us and not for the NIL, this would have been a tough road. Other part is wanting to enjoy the season and get the news in April and deal with it then.

Yes, Oklahoma State appealed the ruling and was allowed to play in this past NCAA tournament. How is that fair? The NCAA is very political. Some schools can get away with murder while others get crucified for doing little to nothing wrong.
10-06-2021 04:19 PM
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memtigbb Offline
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Post: #48
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
The NCAA has to flex it's muscles whenever and however it can. It can't against the big schools so it makes it for it by coming down like a hammer on the smaller schools.
10-06-2021 05:16 PM
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Post: #49
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
(10-06-2021 10:50 AM)mairving Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 09:44 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  Nothing will come of this other than 2 vacated wins.

Only reason we went with the IARP is probably because we felt he NCAA was butthurt about Wiseman getting a restraining order so we didn't want to leave it in their hands.

I guess it all depends. When the NCAA investigated Rose they had a fallback (his brother flew for free, impermissible benefit) in case the SAT cheating thing didn't work. Hopefully they don't have another infraction up their sleeve.

The Rose brother flying thing alone made Derrick ineligible to play.
10-07-2021 08:03 AM
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EarthBoundMisfit Offline
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RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
Nothing has happened to strong ass offer Will Wade, slick Bill Self, Auburn coach Bruce Pearl, thus far it appears only Arizona did something about its coaching situation.
What Kansas, Louisville, Arizona, Auburn etc did was so much worse.
Nothing Memphis did even comes close to a serious penalty.
10-07-2021 08:14 AM
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Eagleonpar Offline
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Post: #51
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
(10-06-2021 04:19 PM)sherekhan Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 12:20 PM)griffin Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 10:04 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 09:54 AM)poppaslaw Wrote:  
(10-06-2021 06:39 AM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  Memphis played Wiseman 3 games before sitting him. At the most, the NCAA should mandate Penny miss 3 games. That would be the reasonable thing to do but this is the NCAA.

Oh he's going to miss games but much more than 3.

Penny aint getting suspended...

He didn't do anything wrong as far as the NCAA is concerned.

Yeah he broke a bunch of TSAA rules...But he didn't break any NCAA rules when he paid Wiseman.

As much of a pain this is unless something changes within the NCAA - Booster - paid money to HS Player, that HS player can't go to school where booster is a booster. Level 1 violation.

The IARP path is only for complicated or serious cases - that alone tells you this is far more than the probability of getting a slap on the wrist or it would not have be have been accepted.

Lets hope w the NIL deals there is a lighter sentence coming. This is the first case coming out of the IARP process - hard for me to believe it will be light - the probability is too great for a simple slap on the wrist.

The IARP group is not the NCAA, its a different path w a entire different group of people who are outside the NCAA. They can accept the evidence obtained by the NCAA or/and do their own diligence.

Worth going to site to read up on who is on which panel and what their charter states.

Lady from UT on there btw - all from outside the NCAA - some sports arbitrators etc - those may help.

Oklahoma State for one Level 1 violation received 2 years probation, no NCAA and Conference tourney for one year plus about 6 or so other sanctions.

In hindsight, it was not a good idea to play Wiseman regardless of anyone's opinion on this - there will be a penalty to pay for this.

Let's hope the strung out process helps. Based on who I have spoken with, there is hope this will not be serious - you only "hope" when you expect the news to be bad.

New process - part of me wants this to be over with because it is being used against us and not for the NIL, this would have been a tough road. Other part is wanting to enjoy the season and get the news in April and deal with it then.

Yes, Oklahoma State appealed the ruling and was allowed to play in this past NCAA tournament. How is that fair? The NCAA is very political. Some schools can get away with murder while others get crucified for doing little to nothing wrong.


Oklahoma State pales in comparison to what North Carolina got away with for a quarter of a century. The amount they spent on attorneys fees says a lot.
10-07-2021 08:14 AM
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mairving Online
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Post: #52
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
(10-06-2021 03:11 PM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  So what folks around the university are sensing is that Penny will get punished heavily?

No one really knows that. It's always the expectation due to past history.
10-07-2021 08:22 AM
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Post: #53
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
I Agree with TiminMem23 about how the NCAA cannot continue with more bad PR for hammering us. They are already despised (and have been) for years now because of, well, incompetency. I don't think it will be as severe as some might think it will be.
10-07-2021 09:41 AM
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Post: #54
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
Supposed to be some info available next Monday.
I have a hard time believing it's not Tuesday, but that's what I hear.
10-07-2021 10:29 AM
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fishman6581 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
(10-07-2021 10:29 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Supposed to be some info available next Monday.
I have a hard time believing it's not Tuesday, but that's what I hear.

Lol the IARP spokesman has stated updates for all 6 Monday. Is that what you hear?
10-07-2021 11:14 AM
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Tiger87 Online
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Post: #56
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
(10-07-2021 11:14 AM)fishman6581 Wrote:  
(10-07-2021 10:29 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Supposed to be some info available next Monday.
I have a hard time believing it's not Tuesday, but that's what I hear.

Lol the IARP spokesman has stated updates for all 6 Monday. Is that what you hear?

yes
10-07-2021 11:20 AM
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griffin Offline
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Post: #57
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
(10-07-2021 11:14 AM)fishman6581 Wrote:  
(10-07-2021 10:29 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Supposed to be some info available next Monday.
I have a hard time believing it's not Tuesday, but that's what I hear.

Lol the IARP spokesman has stated updates for all 6 Monday. Is that what you hear?

was thinking the same thing...Memphis media was late on this as well, Kansas media reported it on Oct 1. I found the Kansas article by reading about college basketball in general on ESPN, took me to different links and accidently found about the update.
10-07-2021 11:26 AM
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fishman6581 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
(10-07-2021 11:26 AM)griffin Wrote:  
(10-07-2021 11:14 AM)fishman6581 Wrote:  
(10-07-2021 10:29 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Supposed to be some info available next Monday.
I have a hard time believing it's not Tuesday, but that's what I hear.

Lol the IARP spokesman has stated updates for all 6 Monday. Is that what you hear?

was thinking the same thing...Memphis media was late on this as well, Kansas media reported it on Oct 1. I found the Kansas article by reading about college basketball in general on ESPN, took me to different links and accidently found about the update.

My Indy source tells me a Memphis reporter was calling all around Indy asking for updates Tuesday.
10-07-2021 11:32 AM
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RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
The Wiseman case itself can be argued and I think a good PR person could have handled the NCAA easily by showing how hypocritical the ncaa is and how stupid and incompetent they are — but - playing Wiseman when the ncaa said not to is going to end up biting us in the butt.
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2021 06:43 PM by BinghamptonNed.)
10-07-2021 06:42 PM
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Post: #60
RE: All IARP cases - timelines by Oct 11
(10-06-2021 03:42 PM)OldFan Wrote:  griffin, are you saying that folks around the school think they will get punished heavily, or that they won't? I've gotten both impressions from your posts (which are much appreciated).

You might as well be asking STAMMERS/AAA/THESTREETGUY---neither of the four have been correct/right yet on anything PERIOD
10-07-2021 07:56 PM
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