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falconplucker Offline
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Looking Ahead
IMO, next week could be the most important game of the season. Not because UMASS is a threat to beat Toledo, but because I would think next week is last chance to solidify the direction this offense is going to go. I just don't see the offensive line improving a whole lot. We have Bradley, who you would like as a pocket passer, because of the wr talent of the Rockets, but he doesn't get a whole lot of time in the pocket, and he still needs to develop some touch. Finn helps with the o-line issues with his running ability, but his arm isn't quite there yet. Candle is going to need to find creative ways to use the backs, as the holes aren't there.

After UMASS, Toledo runs the gauntlet of three tough games. NIU has had some letdowns, but they also beat Georgia Tech. Georgia Tech held Clemson to 14 and beat North Carolina. Central competed with Missouri and put up 21 against LSU. Western has some nice wins over Pitt and San Jose State.
09-26-2021 03:17 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
Our defense should keep us in every game. I could see the MAC West just beating each other up good. EMU and BG may be just asngood as the previous 3 you mentioned. Gauntlet of Parody.
09-26-2021 03:44 PM
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Springboromark Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
With the conservative offensive sets Candle utilized against Ball state, I don't see any big numbers being put up by this offense as UT goes further, even against UMASS. Instead of FGs against the Cardinals, I was hoping Candle would have open the offense with some trickery. The Cards were stacking the line play after play, with Koback getting sometimes minimal gain
09-27-2021 07:34 PM
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pono Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
Offensive line issues are partially physical (not a real powerful group) and partially scheme/mental which can be improved. So, I'd say there's a ceiling on this offensive line, but it could certainly improve a bit. Candle has run a pretty vanilla offense for a while. When you got guys like Dionte Johnson Cody Thompson Kareem Hunt Logan Woodside, etc... that isn't an issue, but when the talent isn't quite as talented it helps to have some cleverness.
09-27-2021 11:04 PM
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eastisbest Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
Memory serves, none of those guys were "Dionte Johnson Cody Thompson Kareem Hunt Logan Woodside" when they first got here. Maybe Thompson on who the expectations were lower. Woodside certainly took his criticism from the board. I'm sure Johnson perfected his ball dropping skills while here and Hunt had more running help. The line over the years was criticized because, it's the line. Storm Norton never met an offside he didn't like within five yards of the goal line. I think someone showed on another thread that OL recruit rankings haven't changed all that much.


Causes are not so easy to pin-down I think, after last years' weirdness. One thing for sure, procedural and composure penalties, penalties, penalties, have stalled too many drives and given back too many drives.
09-28-2021 05:32 AM
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DetroitRocket Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
(09-28-2021 05:32 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  Memory serves, none of those guys were "Dionte Johnson Cody Thompson Kareem Hunt Logan Woodside" when they first got here. Maybe Thompson on who the expectations were lower. Woodside certainly took his criticism from the board. I'm sure Johnson perfected his ball dropping skills while here and Hunt had more running help. The line over the years was criticized because, it's the line. Storm Norton never met an offside he didn't like within five yards of the goal line. I think someone showed on another thread that OL recruit rankings haven't changed all that much.


Causes are not so easy to pin-down I think, after last years' weirdness. One thing for sure, procedural and composure penalties, penalties, penalties, have stalled too many drives and given back too many drives.

It comes down to the coaches. Great coaches can make average players look great.
09-28-2021 06:20 AM
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indianasniff Offline
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Looking Ahead
One thing Candle has always done early in the year is play shell game plans and roll out stuff later in season. Maybe that is what is happening

Maybe


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09-28-2021 09:23 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
(09-28-2021 09:23 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  One thing Candle has always done early in the year is play shell game plans and roll out stuff later in season. Maybe that is what is happening

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I think every MAC fan is hoping that. As in, "there has to be more than what we've seen so far"
09-29-2021 02:17 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
(09-28-2021 09:23 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  One thing Candle has always done early in the year is play shell game plans and roll out stuff later in season. Maybe that is what is happening

Maybe


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I dont think that was the plan, but if the line is behind schedule and the gameplan isnt working for Carter, then we may be switching to an offense catered to Dequann. That could continue to develop and change week over week. Maybe by November the offense looks a lot different than we thought it would be in Fall Camp. I dont think we were holding stuff close to our chest as a plan tho...we played ND. Gave em all the looks (we had at that time).
09-29-2021 04:47 PM
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eastisbest Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
(09-28-2021 09:23 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  One thing Candle has always done early in the year is play shell game plans and roll out stuff later in season. Maybe that is what is happening

Maybe


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Then I wish he'd stop. Latter part of season hasn't exactly been an unqualified success.
09-29-2021 05:17 PM
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wetsu Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
There's a philosophy among many spread offense coaches that the system doesn't work if the inside zone play isn't established and Coach Candle definitely strikes me as one of them. For that reason people stack up to stop the run against this team. Sometimes it doesn't require a big change from their base package if an opponents defensive line is holding its own. Finn can sell the inside zone during his read well enough to get the edge due to his speed. That's where it gets a little hairy. Bradley is not considered a threat to run, at least to the extent that he can be a weapon, so it's easier to load up against the inside zone series. Finn can hurt people with his feet but is still tentative with his arm.

The present scenario will continue to play itself out if the penalties and drops also continue. The O-line is not great but when you have long-yardage situations as frequently as Toledo has they are behind the 8-ball on far too many down and distance situations. I understand that illegal procedure penalties on first down are self-inflicted but it's stupid. As a result some teams blitz to force Toledo's hand or allow their D-line to pin their ears back ala CSU.

If it gets to the point that teams can get pressure/control the LOS by simply rushing four guys that's a bad omen.
09-29-2021 07:10 PM
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rocketpaul Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
[quote='wetsu' pid='17685324' dateline='1632960657']
There's a philosophy among many spread offense coaches that the system doesn't work if the inside zone play isn't established and Coach Candle definitely strikes me as one of them. For that reason people stack up to stop the run against this team. Sometimes it doesn't require a big change from their base package if an opponents defensive line is holding its own. Finn can sell the inside zone during his read well enough to get the edge due to his speed. That's where it gets a little hairy. Bradley is not considered a threat to run, at least to the extent that he can be a weapon, so it's easier to load up against the inside zone series. Finn can hurt people with his feet but is still tentative with his arm.

The present scenario will continue to play itself out if the penalties and drops also continue. The O-line is not great but when you have long-yardage situations as frequently as Toledo has they are behind the 8-ball on far too many down and distance situations. I understand that illegal procedure penalties on first down are self-inflicted but it's stupid. As a result some teams blitz to force Toledo's hand or allow their D-line to pin their ears back ala CSU.

If it gets to the point that teams can get pressure/control the LOS by simply rushing four guys that's a bad omen.
[/quote
We have what I would say is a conundrum I do like Bradley as I think he might be the best deep thrower ever to play for us. We have Finn who I consider the best running QB to ever play for us. Should we be playing Tucker Gleeson because he can do running better than Bradley and passing better than Finn?
10-01-2021 09:23 AM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
(10-01-2021 09:23 AM)rocketpaul Wrote:  [quote='wetsu' pid='17685324' dateline='1632960657']
There's a philosophy among many spread offense coaches that the system doesn't work if the inside zone play isn't established and Coach Candle definitely strikes me as one of them. For that reason people stack up to stop the run against this team. Sometimes it doesn't require a big change from their base package if an opponents defensive line is holding its own. Finn can sell the inside zone during his read well enough to get the edge due to his speed. That's where it gets a little hairy. Bradley is not considered a threat to run, at least to the extent that he can be a weapon, so it's easier to load up against the inside zone series. Finn can hurt people with his feet but is still tentative with his arm.

The present scenario will continue to play itself out if the penalties and drops also continue. The O-line is not great but when you have long-yardage situations as frequently as Toledo has they are behind the 8-ball on far too many down and distance situations. I understand that illegal procedure penalties on first down are self-inflicted but it's stupid. As a result some teams blitz to force Toledo's hand or allow their D-line to pin their ears back ala CSU.

If it gets to the point that teams can get pressure/control the LOS by simply rushing four guys that's a bad omen.
[/quote
We have what I would say is a conundrum I do like Bradley as I think he might be the best deep thrower ever to play for us. We have Finn who I consider the best running QB to ever play for us. Should we be playing Tucker Gleeson because he can do running better than Bradley and passing better than Finn?

He was recruited to GT, so youd think hed have an option background to an extent (even though GT has changed over the past couple years).

Id say T.O. was the best deep thrower we ever had. Reedy, Page, Alonzo etc all benefited from those go routes. Then again those receivers were pretty dang good.
10-01-2021 10:50 AM
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H2Oville Rocket Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
(10-01-2021 10:50 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(10-01-2021 09:23 AM)rocketpaul Wrote:  [quote='wetsu' pid='17685324' dateline='1632960657']
There's a philosophy among many spread offense coaches that the system doesn't work if the inside zone play isn't established and Coach Candle definitely strikes me as one of them. For that reason people stack up to stop the run against this team. Sometimes it doesn't require a big change from their base package if an opponents defensive line is holding its own. Finn can sell the inside zone during his read well enough to get the edge due to his speed. That's where it gets a little hairy. Bradley is not considered a threat to run, at least to the extent that he can be a weapon, so it's easier to load up against the inside zone series. Finn can hurt people with his feet but is still tentative with his arm.

The present scenario will continue to play itself out if the penalties and drops also continue. The O-line is not great but when you have long-yardage situations as frequently as Toledo has they are behind the 8-ball on far too many down and distance situations. I understand that illegal procedure penalties on first down are self-inflicted but it's stupid. As a result some teams blitz to force Toledo's hand or allow their D-line to pin their ears back ala CSU.

If it gets to the point that teams can get pressure/control the LOS by simply rushing four guys that's a bad omen.
[/quote
We have what I would say is a conundrum I do like Bradley as I think he might be the best deep thrower ever to play for us. We have Finn who I consider the best running QB to ever play for us. Should we be playing Tucker Gleeson because he can do running better than Bradley and passing better than Finn?

He was recruited to GT, so youd think hed have an option background to an extent (even though GT has changed over the past couple years).

Id say T.O. was the best deep thrower we ever had. Reedy, Page, Alonzo etc all benefited from those go routes. Then again those receivers were pretty dang good.

I recall lots of fans in rows three through seven benefitting as well. Some great catches of TO passes by those fans.
10-01-2021 12:18 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
(10-01-2021 12:18 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  
(10-01-2021 10:50 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(10-01-2021 09:23 AM)rocketpaul Wrote:  [quote='wetsu' pid='17685324' dateline='1632960657']
There's a philosophy among many spread offense coaches that the system doesn't work if the inside zone play isn't established and Coach Candle definitely strikes me as one of them. For that reason people stack up to stop the run against this team. Sometimes it doesn't require a big change from their base package if an opponents defensive line is holding its own. Finn can sell the inside zone during his read well enough to get the edge due to his speed. That's where it gets a little hairy. Bradley is not considered a threat to run, at least to the extent that he can be a weapon, so it's easier to load up against the inside zone series. Finn can hurt people with his feet but is still tentative with his arm.

The present scenario will continue to play itself out if the penalties and drops also continue. The O-line is not great but when you have long-yardage situations as frequently as Toledo has they are behind the 8-ball on far too many down and distance situations. I understand that illegal procedure penalties on first down are self-inflicted but it's stupid. As a result some teams blitz to force Toledo's hand or allow their D-line to pin their ears back ala CSU.

If it gets to the point that teams can get pressure/control the LOS by simply rushing four guys that's a bad omen.
[/quote
We have what I would say is a conundrum I do like Bradley as I think he might be the best deep thrower ever to play for us. We have Finn who I consider the best running QB to ever play for us. Should we be playing Tucker Gleeson because he can do running better than Bradley and passing better than Finn?

He was recruited to GT, so youd think hed have an option background to an extent (even though GT has changed over the past couple years).

Id say T.O. was the best deep thrower we ever had. Reedy, Page, Alonzo etc all benefited from those go routes. Then again those receivers were pretty dang good.

I recall lots of fans in rows three through seven benefitting as well. Some great catches of TO passes by those fans.

hahahahhaah
2011 was quite the offensive year with 9.8 Adjusted Yards per Attempt. He regressed in 2012 and 2013 quite a bit going downfield. Carter is at about 9 AY/A for his career.
10-01-2021 01:24 PM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
(10-01-2021 01:24 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(10-01-2021 12:18 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  
(10-01-2021 10:50 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(10-01-2021 09:23 AM)rocketpaul Wrote:  [quote='wetsu' pid='17685324' dateline='1632960657']
There's a philosophy among many spread offense coaches that the system doesn't work if the inside zone play isn't established and Coach Candle definitely strikes me as one of them. For that reason people stack up to stop the run against this team. Sometimes it doesn't require a big change from their base package if an opponents defensive line is holding its own. Finn can sell the inside zone during his read well enough to get the edge due to his speed. That's where it gets a little hairy. Bradley is not considered a threat to run, at least to the extent that he can be a weapon, so it's easier to load up against the inside zone series. Finn can hurt people with his feet but is still tentative with his arm.

The present scenario will continue to play itself out if the penalties and drops also continue. The O-line is not great but when you have long-yardage situations as frequently as Toledo has they are behind the 8-ball on far too many down and distance situations. I understand that illegal procedure penalties on first down are self-inflicted but it's stupid. As a result some teams blitz to force Toledo's hand or allow their D-line to pin their ears back ala CSU.

If it gets to the point that teams can get pressure/control the LOS by simply rushing four guys that's a bad omen.
[/quote
We have what I would say is a conundrum I do like Bradley as I think he might be the best deep thrower ever to play for us. We have Finn who I consider the best running QB to ever play for us. Should we be playing Tucker Gleeson because he can do running better than Bradley and passing better than Finn?

He was recruited to GT, so youd think hed have an option background to an extent (even though GT has changed over the past couple years).

Id say T.O. was the best deep thrower we ever had. Reedy, Page, Alonzo etc all benefited from those go routes. Then again those receivers were pretty dang good.

I recall lots of fans in rows three through seven benefitting as well. Some great catches of TO passes by those fans.

hahahahhaah
2011 was quite the offensive year with 9.8 Adjusted Yards per Attempt. He regressed in 2012 and 2013 quite a bit going downfield. Carter is at about 9 AY/A for his career.

Carter can stand in the pocket, take the hit, and deliver the football. No happy feet.
10-01-2021 02:33 PM
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eastisbest Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
Cinci isn't that far ahead of us, if the Notre Dame game can be compared. With one of course glaring exception.

Cinci had more turn-overs, lower 3rd down efficiency, lower QB rating. We let one each longer pass and rush, won the turn-over but did have a breakdown on special teams. Cinci had the advanatge of more scouting, particulary regards the QBs other than Coen.

Both games started out similarly, ND looking dominant. Adjustments and settling down occurred and the football games begun. They got the stop on the last drive, we didn't.

Penalites that extended ND drives and that killed ours. That is the difference. I'd say our WR package is better. Their QB of course better. He does what we need two to do. Defenses not too dissimilar in attack or capability? Someone better than me would have to comment on that.

We'll see if the Colo St game can be put into post ND let-down but that does go on the coaches. Theirs is to get the kids back in the game. Maybe a little bit of let-down on their part too?
10-03-2021 12:55 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
(10-03-2021 12:55 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  Cinci isn't that far ahead of us, if the Notre Dame game can be compared. With one of course glaring exception.

Cinci had more turn-overs, lower 3rd down efficiency, lower QB rating. We let one each longer pass and rush, won the turn-over but did have a breakdown on special teams. Cinci had the advanatge of more scouting, particulary regards the QBs other than Coen.

Both games started out similarly, ND looking dominant. Adjustments and settling down occurred and the football games begun. They got the stop on the last drive, we didn't.

Penalites that extended ND drives and that killed ours. That is the difference. I'd say our WR package is better. Their QB of course better. He does what we need two to do. Defenses not too dissimilar in attack or capability? Someone better than me would have to comment on that.

We'll see if the Colo St game can be put into post ND let-down but that does go on the coaches. Theirs is to get the kids back in the game. Maybe a little bit of let-down on their part too?

Lots of good points. Special teams bust and penalties was the difference between a loss and win.

But competing with UC? We may have a better scheme but they have 2 first round draft picks on the D. If we played UC we might not score... Id imagine the game being 20-3 or something. They play clean inspired football. SMU is their only test left. ND will drop 1 or 2 more.
10-03-2021 06:06 PM
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eastisbest Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
(10-03-2021 06:06 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 12:55 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  Cinci isn't that far ahead of us, if the Notre Dame game can be compared. With one of course glaring exception.

Cinci had more turn-overs, lower 3rd down efficiency, lower QB rating. We let one each longer pass and rush, won the turn-over but did have a breakdown on special teams. Cinci had the advanatge of more scouting, particulary regards the QBs other than Coen.

Both games started out similarly, ND looking dominant. Adjustments and settling down occurred and the football games begun. They got the stop on the last drive, we didn't.

Penalites that extended ND drives and that killed ours. That is the difference. I'd say our WR package is better. Their QB of course better. He does what we need two to do. Defenses not too dissimilar in attack or capability? Someone better than me would have to comment on that.

We'll see if the Colo St game can be put into post ND let-down but that does go on the coaches. Theirs is to get the kids back in the game. Maybe a little bit of let-down on their part too?

Lots of good points. Special teams bust and penalties was the difference between a loss and win.

But competing with UC? We may have a better scheme but they have 2 first round draft picks on the D. If we played UC we might not score... Id imagine the game being 20-3 or something. They play clean inspired football. SMU is their only test left. ND will drop 1 or 2 more.

They're presently below us on the defensive rankings( for what that's worth, Wisky is 3rd.). ND game, as I said, other than the penalities there wasn't a huge difference. Clean those up and no, it's not a 20-3 game. It's competitive.

Who were you thinking other than Gardner projected to be a first rounder on D? Wish we had gotten him out of MLK. I posted in the recruiting, Belleville is stacked, over a dozen D1 level recruits not counting sophs (and the Fr QB). Only one on our list and he's a recent decommit. Sure wish coach would increase presence up there. With Wilcher at MSU and Kentucky actually winning games, I'm a bit concerned.
10-03-2021 08:21 PM
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UofToledoFans Offline
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RE: Looking Ahead
(10-03-2021 08:21 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 06:06 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(10-03-2021 12:55 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  Cinci isn't that far ahead of us, if the Notre Dame game can be compared. With one of course glaring exception.

Cinci had more turn-overs, lower 3rd down efficiency, lower QB rating. We let one each longer pass and rush, won the turn-over but did have a breakdown on special teams. Cinci had the advanatge of more scouting, particulary regards the QBs other than Coen.

Both games started out similarly, ND looking dominant. Adjustments and settling down occurred and the football games begun. They got the stop on the last drive, we didn't.

Penalites that extended ND drives and that killed ours. That is the difference. I'd say our WR package is better. Their QB of course better. He does what we need two to do. Defenses not too dissimilar in attack or capability? Someone better than me would have to comment on that.

We'll see if the Colo St game can be put into post ND let-down but that does go on the coaches. Theirs is to get the kids back in the game. Maybe a little bit of let-down on their part too?

Lots of good points. Special teams bust and penalties was the difference between a loss and win.

But competing with UC? We may have a better scheme but they have 2 first round draft picks on the D. If we played UC we might not score... Id imagine the game being 20-3 or something. They play clean inspired football. SMU is their only test left. ND will drop 1 or 2 more.

They're presently below us on the defensive rankings( for what that's worth, Wisky is 3rd.). ND game, as I said, other than the penalities there wasn't a huge difference. Clean those up and no, it's not a 20-3 game. It's competitive.

Who were you thinking other than Gardner projected to be a first rounder on D? Wish we had gotten him out of MLK. I posted in the recruiting, Belleville is stacked, over a dozen D1 level recruits not counting sophs (and the Fr QB). Only one on our list and he's a recent decommit. Sure wish coach would increase presence up there. With Wilcher at MSU and Kentucky actually winning games, I'm a bit concerned.

DE Myjai Sanders is a preseason all american, probable day 1 or 2 draft pick.

Again I like our scheme and our guys. They have a couple better ones. Regardless... Our D wouldnt play their D. Their O has a more cohesive Line, more reliable QB, and better run game. I agree our receivers could be on par. Their TE Wylee or whatever is also a beast.
10-03-2021 08:49 PM
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