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Where is realignment heading?
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Maize Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Where is realignment heading?
(09-21-2021 03:15 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  
(09-20-2021 02:11 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(09-20-2021 01:46 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Neil,
Sorry to read of your loss. It’s good to have you back.
I don’t think your Orange be alone. I doubt many in The ACC make the cut.
Like you I know Louisville won’t and I’m fine with that.

Thanks. Glad to be back, despite my Orange playing so badly. Eternal hope we will somehow turn it around.

If I am correct, my gut says the new model of an Eastern Conference (probably named the ACC but not necessarily) would contain no more than 2 teams from the same state and likely be comprised of Miami, UCF, GT, NC State, Duke or Wake (if only 12 or both if 14 or 16), VT, L'Ville, Cincy, WVU, Pitt, SU, and BC. If 14 or 16 whoever the last 1 or 3 might be is anyone's guess.

Just my thoughts on it.

Cheers
Neil

Where do we sign up? We can do this today…

I would sign up for that right now except I would dump one of the Carolina schools and add Memphis.

CJ I would keep it at 14 with all the Carolina Schools and still add Memphis...04-cheers
09-21-2021 03:32 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Where is realignment heading?
(09-21-2021 03:32 PM)Maize Wrote:  
(09-21-2021 03:15 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  
(09-20-2021 02:11 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(09-20-2021 01:46 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Neil,
Sorry to read of your loss. It’s good to have you back.
I don’t think your Orange be alone. I doubt many in The ACC make the cut.
Like you I know Louisville won’t and I’m fine with that.

Thanks. Glad to be back, despite my Orange playing so badly. Eternal hope we will somehow turn it around.

If I am correct, my gut says the new model of an Eastern Conference (probably named the ACC but not necessarily) would contain no more than 2 teams from the same state and likely be comprised of Miami, UCF, GT, NC State, Duke or Wake (if only 12 or both if 14 or 16), VT, L'Ville, Cincy, WVU, Pitt, SU, and BC. If 14 or 16 whoever the last 1 or 3 might be is anyone's guess.

Just my thoughts on it.

Cheers
Neil

Where do we sign up? We can do this today…

I would sign up for that right now except I would dump one of the Carolina schools and add Memphis.

CJ I would keep it at 14 with all the Carolina Schools and still add Memphis...04-cheers

I'd be interested in seeing if VT ends up in the south in that league.

BC, Cuse, Pitt, WVU, Cincy Louisville, Memphis
VT, Wake, Duke, NCST, GT, UCF, Miami

It separates VT from all their old BE rivals but I would want VT to be able to play the North Carolina schools GT and Miami every year if possible.

If you put Memphis or Louisville in the South instead of VT you separate them from there old rivals Cincy/Louisville or Cincy/Memphis. So, I'd go with VT in the south and that would still be a great league for VT.
09-21-2021 03:44 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Where is realignment heading?
(09-21-2021 12:07 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(09-20-2021 01:28 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  After over a 2 year hiatus, I am back for now. For those wondering why I left it had to do with the passing of my partner/husband from pancreatic cancer. I have kept reading this board and the syracusefan board but decided not to post. Syracuse crapping the bed in football the past three years sort of made it easier to avoid posting as well.

Anyway back to the main topic of this post. Where is realignment heading? I will begin by tipping my hat to JR whose past posts have now shown he has had the most insight as to where it's going, imho. Ultimately he put forth the notion that there would be 40 to 48 teams with either two leagues or perhaps one super league.

As a Syracuse fan it gives me no pleasure to say this, but my Orange will likely not make the cut. Using the lower end of 40 to 48 teams, I suspect the two league model will likely result in Clemson, FSU, UNC, and UVA to the SEC to get to 20 and USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington (and 2 of Notre Dame, Kansas, Stanford and Arizona) to get the Big 10 to 20. Notre Dame's independence will need to end once the new model is implemented if they wish to compete at the sports highest levels. This new model will also likely result (as JR and others have been saying for a while) in a separation from the NCAA for at the very least major college football - I am uncertain if it will apply to basketball at all.

The remaining ACC and remaining PAC/Big 12 (combined) will likely re-invent themselves along 12 or 16 team models whose games will comprise the next level down college football.

Those are my thoughts. Hope I am proven wrong.

Cheers,
Neil

I had read a lot of OmniOrange’s (and LumberPack’s) old postings to learn about the conference realignment. They were very helpful, so thank you.

With respect to your question, personally I think the P4 conferences almost reached to the equilibrium state, where no further movement between P4 would happen.

Some possible changes I can think of:

* The P4 may break away from the NCAA.
* The Pac-12 may try to bulk up by adding two or more teams from the Big 12 down the road.
* ND and the ACC further strengthens the partnership: 6th game, participation of the ACC CG, or pooling the media money.

Thank you Random
09-21-2021 04:39 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Where is realignment heading?
The correlation between a schools ability to compete and the size of their football stadium is very high and statically significant.

The 24 largest home stadiums seat between 70 and 108 K.

Michigan, PSU, Ohio State, TAMU, LSU, Bama, Texas, Georgia, UCLA, Florida, Auburn, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Clemson, Wisky, ND, SC, FSU, USC, Arkansas, Michigan State, Iowa, Mizzou, and Washington. Of these 24 Nebraska is the most underachieving, followed by FSU, UCLA, Arkansas and Mizzou. Their underachievement is not about money, but coaches they hired with the exception of Mizzou where the entire state slumped into a shitstorm after too many police killings.

If you go from 24 to 32 you get VT, Miami, BYU, Cal, Iowa State, KY, Mississippi State, and Louisville.

UVa can seat 61 but has not in two decades. Pitt could 68K but never has unless Penn State came to town.

Obviously KY and Cal don't belong in a top 32 frame but look at 33-42:

Illinois, West Va, TT, Oklahoma State, NC State, Purdue, Arizona State, Arizona, Oregon, and Indiana. (NC State has the most undersized stadium relative to demand in this group, but they like it that way).
At this point you are down to stadiums that seat only 63K. In fact the entire block from 33-42 varies from 60-53 K. Of those who seat 50K or less only Utah, Stanford, NW, TCU, Cincy, and UCF have appeared in more than one NY6 bowl (although I think I am missing one or two.)

Anyway, my main point is that there are only about 28 programs that can actually contend on a regular basis and these 28 can be identified mostly by the size of their football stadium.

No amount of TV money makes up for playing a school that sells 300,000 more football tickets than you sell. They only reason the 24-28 keep the other 30-32 around is the big boys want wins. Their fan bases will not accept 7-5 seasons as success even if the losses are to Bama, PSU, LSU, Texas, and Washington.

The group of schools that don't support a football at all cost culture, with smaller stadiums, and with serious competition with their own basketball programs for attention are the ones that I think will determine how big or small the upper division will become. Specifically these schools are mostly Pitt, Syracuse, MD, Colorado, Oregon State, Arizona, UNC, NC State, GT, Indiana, Purdue, Minnesota, Kansas, Stanford, NW, Duke, BC, Vandy, and UVa.

I suspect that most will attempt to play at the highest level for as long as they can put 11 kids on the field.
(This post was last modified: 09-21-2021 05:21 PM by Statefan.)
09-21-2021 05:04 PM
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Pervis_Griffith Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Where is realignment heading?
Welcome back, and condolences ...


I think the Cuse will turn things around. Things are cyclical, especially sports. I try (and fail many times) to just enjoy the ride.


Regarding realignment, I have no idea where it is going ... but it is very hard for me to imagine conferences bigger than 16. Which leaves very little room for growth. But we shall see!
09-21-2021 06:31 PM
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CardFan1 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Where is realignment heading?
First off I'm really sorry for Your loss. That pain can never be replaced in a given time. That said I came back after a 4 year or so hiatus too after I retired From GE. If You remember My wife was a Syracuse fan from Lewis County NY so I always hold Syracuse close to My heart as well as Miami from living there for over 10 years and born in Louisville where I live now for 50+ years.
Syracuse will survive any changes going forward. You need not worry
09-21-2021 06:32 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Where is realignment heading?
(09-20-2021 01:28 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  After over a 2 year hiatus, I am back for now. For those wondering why I left it had to do with the passing of my partner/husband from pancreatic cancer. I have kept reading this board and the syracusefan board but decided not to post. Syracuse crapping the bed in football the past three years sort of made it easier to avoid posting as well.

Anyway back to the main topic of this post. Where is realignment heading? I will begin by tipping my hat to JR whose past posts have now shown he has had the most insight as to where it's going, imho. Ultimately he put forth the notion that there would be 40 to 48 teams with either two leagues or perhaps one super league.

As a Syracuse fan it gives me no pleasure to say this, but my Orange will likely not make the cut. Using the lower end of 40 to 48 teams, I suspect the two league model will likely result in Clemson, FSU, UNC, and UVA to the SEC to get to 20 and USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington (and 2 of Notre Dame, Kansas, Stanford and Arizona) to get the Big 10 to 20. Notre Dame's independence will need to end once the new model is implemented if they wish to compete at the sports highest levels. This new model will also likely result (as JR and others have been saying for a while) in a separation from the NCAA for at the very least major college football - I am uncertain if it will apply to basketball at all.

The remaining ACC and remaining PAC/Big 12 (combined) will likely re-invent themselves along 12 or 16 team models whose games will comprise the next level down college football.

Those are my thoughts. Hope I am proven wrong.

Cheers,
Neil

It appears as if Syracuse is already making plans for their post P5 days.
'cuse has formed an alliance on their own with the MEAC conference. Perhaps this is the first step to ensure games for the Syracuse athletic schedules once the Orange are left behind.
https://www.syracuse.com/orangesports/20...onference.

"Syracuse, N.Y. -- Over the next 10 years, Syracuse University expects to play about 50 games against schools from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference."
09-24-2021 05:06 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Where is realignment heading?
(09-24-2021 05:06 AM)XLance Wrote:  It appears as if Syracuse is already making plans for their post P5 days.
'cuse has formed an alliance on their own with the MEAC conference. Perhaps this is the first step to ensure games for the Syracuse athletic schedules once the Orange are left behind.
https://www.syracuse.com/orangesports/20...onference.

"Syracuse, N.Y. -- Over the next 10 years, Syracuse University expects to play about 50 games against schools from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference."

Stop trolling... this is about doing something nice to help the HBCU's stay open... Syracuse may get left behind (so may VT and even UNC!), but this has nothing to do with that.
09-24-2021 07:53 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Where is realignment heading?
(09-24-2021 07:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-24-2021 05:06 AM)XLance Wrote:  It appears as if Syracuse is already making plans for their post P5 days.
'cuse has formed an alliance on their own with the MEAC conference. Perhaps this is the first step to ensure games for the Syracuse athletic schedules once the Orange are left behind.
https://www.syracuse.com/orangesports/20...onference.

"Syracuse, N.Y. -- Over the next 10 years, Syracuse University expects to play about 50 games against schools from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference."

Stop trolling... this is about doing something nice to help the HBCU's stay open... Syracuse may get left behind (so may VT and even UNC!), but this has nothing to do with that.

Yep... the PAC 12 has done the same with the SWAC. I expect some other schools/conferences will do the same very soon.
09-24-2021 09:04 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Where is realignment heading?
(09-24-2021 07:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-24-2021 05:06 AM)XLance Wrote:  It appears as if Syracuse is already making plans for their post P5 days.
'cuse has formed an alliance on their own with the MEAC conference. Perhaps this is the first step to ensure games for the Syracuse athletic schedules once the Orange are left behind.
https://www.syracuse.com/orangesports/20...onference.

"Syracuse, N.Y. -- Over the next 10 years, Syracuse University expects to play about 50 games against schools from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference."

Stop trolling... this is about doing something nice to help the HBCU's stay open... Syracuse may get left behind (so may VT and even UNC!), but this has nothing to do with that.

?
I didn't make up the article.
Any HBCU school worth it's salt is trying to move up the ladder just like any other school.
Syracuse could have engaged NC A&T (located in Greensboro) which was a MEAC school until they moved up into the Big South Conference this year primarily because their football program had outgrown the MEAC. A&T has already played Duke this year.
If Syracuse wants to make a social statement....fine, but just do it with a school or schools that will provide a semblance of competition instead of an automatic W.
(This post was last modified: 09-24-2021 12:31 PM by XLance.)
09-24-2021 12:21 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Where is realignment heading?
The article didnt say
(09-24-2021 12:21 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-24-2021 07:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-24-2021 05:06 AM)XLance Wrote:  It appears as if Syracuse is already making plans for their post P5 days.
'cuse has formed an alliance on their own with the MEAC conference. Perhaps this is the first step to ensure games for the Syracuse athletic schedules once the Orange are left behind.
https://www.syracuse.com/orangesports/20...onference.

"Syracuse, N.Y. -- Over the next 10 years, Syracuse University expects to play about 50 games against schools from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference."

Stop trolling... this is about doing something nice to help the HBCU's stay open... Syracuse may get left behind (so may VT and even UNC!), but this has nothing to do with that.

?
I didn't make up the article.
Any HBCU school worth it's salt is trying to move up the ladder just like any other school.
Syracuse could have engaged NC A&T (located in Greensboro) which was a MEAC school until they moved up into the Big South Conference this year primarily because their football program had outgrown the MEAC. A&T has already played Duke this year.
If Syracuse wants to make a social statement....fine, but just do it with a school or schools that will provide a semblance of competition instead of an automatic W.

Come on dude. You are very transparent. Your other post was promoting the idea that SU is "making plans for its post P5 days" by playing MEAC schools, as if SU getting left behind is imminent. The article said nothing about SU preparing for post P5 days. That was all you. Im sure you were being facetious with your post because Im also sure you are not that un-intelligent to seriously come to that conclusion. Hope Im not giving you too much credit here. 03-lmfao

But when called out for trolling, now you suddenly are concerned that SU is scheduling "automatic wins by playing MEAC teams. There are 29 Division One basketball schools in NYS. SU could easily schedule "automatic wins" against at least 20 other teams from NYS if it wanted. So Im pretty sure MEAC teams arent complaining. Keep in mind too that this alliance goes far beyond sports and into the classrooms.
(This post was last modified: 09-24-2021 01:22 PM by cuseroc.)
09-24-2021 01:08 PM
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domer1978 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Where is realignment heading?
(09-24-2021 01:08 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  The article didnt say
(09-24-2021 12:21 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-24-2021 07:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-24-2021 05:06 AM)XLance Wrote:  It appears as if Syracuse is already making plans for their post P5 days.
'cuse has formed an alliance on their own with the MEAC conference. Perhaps this is the first step to ensure games for the Syracuse athletic schedules once the Orange are left behind.
https://www.syracuse.com/orangesports/20...onference.

"Syracuse, N.Y. -- Over the next 10 years, Syracuse University expects to play about 50 games against schools from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference."

Stop trolling... this is about doing something nice to help the HBCU's stay open... Syracuse may get left behind (so may VT and even UNC!), but this has nothing to do with that.

?
I didn't make up the article.
Any HBCU school worth it's salt is trying to move up the ladder just like any other school.
Syracuse could have engaged NC A&T (located in Greensboro) which was a MEAC school until they moved up into the Big South Conference this year primarily because their football program had outgrown the MEAC. A&T has already played Duke this year.
If Syracuse wants to make a social statement....fine, but just do it with a school or schools that will provide a semblance of competition instead of an automatic W.

Come on dude. You are very transparent. Your other post was promoting the idea that SU is "making plans for its post P5 days" by playing MEAC schools, as if SU getting left behind is imminent. The article said nothing about SU preparing for post P5 days. That was all you. Im sure you were being facetious with your post because Im also sure you are not that un-intelligent to seriously come to that conclusion. Hope Im not giving you too much credit here. 03-lmfao

But when called out for trolling, now you suddenly are concerned that SU is scheduling "automatic wins by playing MEAC teams. There are 29 Division One basketball schools in NYS. SU could easily schedule "automatic wins" against at least 20 other teams from NYS if it wanted. So Im pretty sure MEAC teams arent complaining. Keep in mind too that this alliance goes far beyond sports and into the classrooms.

ND has been scheduling more MAC games. This has to mean we are gearing up to join the MAC.
09-24-2021 03:10 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Where is realignment heading?
(09-24-2021 01:08 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  The article didnt say
(09-24-2021 12:21 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-24-2021 07:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-24-2021 05:06 AM)XLance Wrote:  It appears as if Syracuse is already making plans for their post P5 days.
'cuse has formed an alliance on their own with the MEAC conference. Perhaps this is the first step to ensure games for the Syracuse athletic schedules once the Orange are left behind.
https://www.syracuse.com/orangesports/20...onference.

"Syracuse, N.Y. -- Over the next 10 years, Syracuse University expects to play about 50 games against schools from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference."

Stop trolling... this is about doing something nice to help the HBCU's stay open... Syracuse may get left behind (so may VT and even UNC!), but this has nothing to do with that.

?
I didn't make up the article.
Any HBCU school worth it's salt is trying to move up the ladder just like any other school.
Syracuse could have engaged NC A&T (located in Greensboro) which was a MEAC school until they moved up into the Big South Conference this year primarily because their football program had outgrown the MEAC. A&T has already played Duke this year.
If Syracuse wants to make a social statement....fine, but just do it with a school or schools that will provide a semblance of competition instead of an automatic W.

Come on dude. You are very transparent. Your other post was promoting the idea that SU is "making plans for its post P5 days" by playing MEAC schools, as if SU getting left behind is imminent. The article said nothing about SU preparing for post P5 days. That was all you. Im sure you were being facetious with your post because Im also sure you are not that un-intelligent to seriously come to that conclusion. Hope Im not giving you too much credit here. 03-lmfao

But when called out for trolling, now you suddenly are concerned that SU is scheduling "automatic wins by playing MEAC teams. There are 29 Division One basketball schools in NYS. SU could easily schedule "automatic wins" against at least 20 other teams from NYS if it wanted. So Im pretty sure MEAC teams arent complaining. Keep in mind too that this alliance goes far beyond sports and into the classrooms.


a) please don't refer to me as "dude"
b) the article didn't refer to Syracuse preparing for post P5, but Omni did in his original post when he said that the Orange most likely will not make the cut, which I cited. Pay attention.
09-24-2021 03:46 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #34
Where is realignment heading?
Sorry for your loss.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
09-24-2021 04:21 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Where is realignment heading?
(09-24-2021 03:46 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-24-2021 01:08 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  The article didnt say
(09-24-2021 12:21 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-24-2021 07:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-24-2021 05:06 AM)XLance Wrote:  It appears as if Syracuse is already making plans for their post P5 days.
'cuse has formed an alliance on their own with the MEAC conference. Perhaps this is the first step to ensure games for the Syracuse athletic schedules once the Orange are left behind.
https://www.syracuse.com/orangesports/20...onference.

"Syracuse, N.Y. -- Over the next 10 years, Syracuse University expects to play about 50 games against schools from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference."

Stop trolling... this is about doing something nice to help the HBCU's stay open... Syracuse may get left behind (so may VT and even UNC!), but this has nothing to do with that.

?
I didn't make up the article.
Any HBCU school worth it's salt is trying to move up the ladder just like any other school.
Syracuse could have engaged NC A&T (located in Greensboro) which was a MEAC school until they moved up into the Big South Conference this year primarily because their football program had outgrown the MEAC. A&T has already played Duke this year.
If Syracuse wants to make a social statement....fine, but just do it with a school or schools that will provide a semblance of competition instead of an automatic W.

Come on dude. You are very transparent. Your other post was promoting the idea that SU is "making plans for its post P5 days" by playing MEAC schools, as if SU getting left behind is imminent. The article said nothing about SU preparing for post P5 days. That was all you. Im sure you were being facetious with your post because Im also sure you are not that un-intelligent to seriously come to that conclusion. Hope Im not giving you too much credit here. 03-lmfao

But when called out for trolling, now you suddenly are concerned that SU is scheduling "automatic wins by playing MEAC teams. There are 29 Division One basketball schools in NYS. SU could easily schedule "automatic wins" against at least 20 other teams from NYS if it wanted. So Im pretty sure MEAC teams arent complaining. Keep in mind too that this alliance goes far beyond sports and into the classrooms.


a) please don't refer to me as "dude"
b) the article didn't refer to Syracuse preparing for post P5, but Omni did in his original post when he said that the Orange most likely will not make the cut, which I cited. Pay attention.

I am paying attention, young man. I know what Neil said. And I know what you said. When Hokie called you out about trolling you put a question mark as if you were totally innocent. Im sorry for giving you too much credit earlier.
(This post was last modified: 09-24-2021 05:42 PM by cuseroc.)
09-24-2021 05:36 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Where is realignment heading?
(09-24-2021 12:21 PM)XLance Wrote:  ...If Syracuse wants to make a social statement....fine, but just do it with a school or schools that will provide a semblance of competition instead of an automatic W.

So, like Wofford at UNC on Nov. 20th?
07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 09-24-2021 06:08 PM by Hokie Mark.)
09-24-2021 06:08 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Where is realignment heading?
(09-24-2021 06:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-24-2021 12:21 PM)XLance Wrote:  ...If Syracuse wants to make a social statement....fine, but just do it with a school or schools that will provide a semblance of competition instead of an automatic W.

So, like Wofford at UNC on Nov. 20th?
07-coffee3

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09-24-2021 08:03 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Where is realignment heading?
The only impending realignment at the P5 level is the possibility of the Big XII adding two more schools. I don’t see the benefit in it unless it increases the payout. Same old song and dance. Plenty of unknowns in the next decade that will determine the future of the ACC. Maybe our top brands decide to show up? That would be a big help. Go back 20 years and you look at our current alignment and we’d be considered the best conference.
09-25-2021 08:15 AM
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