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Rice Future
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Post: #1
Rice Future
I'm sure Rice has approached other conferences concerning future membership. But how much does Rice control its future conference affiliation?
Rice has clearly fallen behind a majority of schools in new facility construction over the last 10 years. Baseball has gone from a national contender to a non-factor.
At the end of the day, it appears Rice will have to rely on its location in Houston, and its academic reputation, to merit an invitation. SBC perhaps? That would actually be an upgrade over CUSA. But would Rice be even less competitive vs SBC teams?
09-16-2021 10:04 PM
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RE: Rice Future
It's like they teach you in 12-step programs. You have to hit bottom first. Rice hasn't hit bottom yet.
09-16-2021 10:42 PM
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RE: Rice Future
(09-16-2021 10:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  It's like they teach you in 12-step programs. You have to hit bottom first. Rice hasn't hit bottom yet.

Can we stop with the B.S. already. We've hit bottom in both baseball and basketball, and both I believe are on the upswing. Certainly basketball is, and baseball should be this coming season.

As for the first poster, the Sun Belt is NOT an upgrade over C-USA. Not even close.
09-16-2021 10:51 PM
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Post: #4
RE: Rice Future
(09-16-2021 10:51 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 10:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  It's like they teach you in 12-step programs. You have to hit bottom first. Rice hasn't hit bottom yet.

Can we stop with the B.S. already. We've hit bottom in both baseball and basketball, and both I believe are on the upswing. Certainly basketball is, and baseball should be this coming season.

As for the first poster, the Sun Belt is NOT an upgrade over C-USA. Not even close.

Basketball is on the upswing-I agree with you on that. But being the #150 team vs. the #225 team doesn’t move the needle.

You believe baseball is on the upswing. Conferences don’t make decisions based on boosters’ belief. Reality is that the Bragga hire was a swing and a miss and dug us in a deeper hole.

As for football, which is BY FAR the biggest determinant in conference realignment, we continue to fall like a rock. Until football hits rock bottom, you can’t argue that we’re doing any better than treading water.
09-16-2021 11:10 PM
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RE: Rice Future
(09-16-2021 11:10 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 10:51 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 10:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  It's like they teach you in 12-step programs. You have to hit bottom first. Rice hasn't hit bottom yet.

Can we stop with the B.S. already. We've hit bottom in both baseball and basketball, and both I believe are on the upswing. Certainly basketball is, and baseball should be this coming season.

As for the first poster, the Sun Belt is NOT an upgrade over C-USA. Not even close.

Basketball is on the upswing-I agree with you on that. But being the #150 team vs. the #225 team doesn’t move the needle.

You believe baseball is on the upswing. Conferences don’t make decisions based on boosters’ belief. Reality is that the Bragga hire was a swing and a miss and dug us in a deeper hole.

As for football, which is BY FAR the biggest determinant in conference realignment, we continue to fall like a rock. Until football hits rock bottom, you can’t argue that we’re doing any better than treading water.

I don't disagree with your comments on what drives conference decision-making, I was simply responding to 69/70/75's comment that we have not yet hit bottom. That's totally B.S., and he knows it.
09-17-2021 07:14 AM
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Post: #6
RE: Rice Future
(09-17-2021 07:14 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 11:10 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 10:51 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 10:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  It's like they teach you in 12-step programs. You have to hit bottom first. Rice hasn't hit bottom yet.
Can we stop with the B.S. already. We've hit bottom in both baseball and basketball, and both I believe are on the upswing. Certainly basketball is, and baseball should be this coming season.
As for the first poster, the Sun Belt is NOT an upgrade over C-USA. Not even close.
Basketball is on the upswing-I agree with you on that. But being the #150 team vs. the #225 team doesn’t move the needle.
You believe baseball is on the upswing. Conferences don’t make decisions based on boosters’ belief. Reality is that the Bragga hire was a swing and a miss and dug us in a deeper hole.
As for football, which is BY FAR the biggest determinant in conference realignment, we continue to fall like a rock. Until football hits rock bottom, you can’t argue that we’re doing any better than treading water.
I don't disagree with your comments on what drives conference decision-making, I was simply responding to 69/70/75's comment that we have not yet hit bottom. That's totally B.S., and he knows it.

No we haven't. Things could get much worse than this. And it's total B.S. to suggest that they couldn't, or won't with the present leadership team in place.
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2021 08:32 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-17-2021 08:32 AM
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Post: #7
RE: Rice Future
Football is the ONLY driver of conference realignment. There are a few 'special' circumstances where basketball units drive some things, but that's rare and certainly not 'us' or really ANY g-5 program. Its all about the football TV package. These other sports only matter 'at the margin'.

If a conference TV package for 10 schools is worth $10mm and adding an 11th doesn't add $1mm (their share) to the pot, why would you add them? You can look at ancillary benefits... The recruiting and alumni hub of Houston is worth something, The 'close' travel is worth something to some schools. Being able to glom on to our academic reputation is worth something to some schools... (not CUSA I might add) so MAYBE you 'max out' at $500-700k in additional revenue as being a 'break-even' for that $1mm share.... but for most schools, its going to be more like $900k - $1mm.... so the way to improve our odds is to improve our football TV value.

A good team in ANY league has value because there are plenty of people who want to watch good teams play football. I don't mean a competitive powder-puff game between two poor, but evenly matched teams... I mean a good game. Rice/CUSA isn't going to provide that often.

Where Rice has a potential advantage or value... is if we exploit the difference between those who want to see that great football... and those who are attracted to smaller, academic oriented schools who accept those great challenges... and succeed. OR if we can identify and attract our own sort of

ONE way I see us doing this is some sort of 'reality tv' sort of internet marketing through videos of the players, alumni and their lives.... It's not that lots of people can't do this... but it IS that only a few schools can appeal to those who value top 25 academics... who also value sports.

Its a smaller demographic, but nobody else appeals to them.
09-17-2021 09:47 AM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Rice Future
(09-17-2021 08:32 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-17-2021 07:14 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 11:10 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 10:51 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 10:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  It's like they teach you in 12-step programs. You have to hit bottom first. Rice hasn't hit bottom yet.
Can we stop with the B.S. already. We've hit bottom in both baseball and basketball, and both I believe are on the upswing. Certainly basketball is, and baseball should be this coming season.
As for the first poster, the Sun Belt is NOT an upgrade over C-USA. Not even close.
Basketball is on the upswing-I agree with you on that. But being the #150 team vs. the #225 team doesn’t move the needle.
You believe baseball is on the upswing. Conferences don’t make decisions based on boosters’ belief. Reality is that the Bragga hire was a swing and a miss and dug us in a deeper hole.
As for football, which is BY FAR the biggest determinant in conference realignment, we continue to fall like a rock. Until football hits rock bottom, you can’t argue that we’re doing any better than treading water.
I don't disagree with your comments on what drives conference decision-making, I was simply responding to 69/70/75's comment that we have not yet hit bottom. That's totally B.S., and he knows it.

No we haven't. Things could get much worse than this. And it's total B.S. to suggest that they couldn't, or won't with the present leadership team in place.

If we aren't at 'rock bottom' in football right now, then I hate to think about what 'rock bottom' would look like for us. Here we are located in the fourth largest city in the country, with an incredible academic reputation, but our football is so bad that we aren't even mentioned in any realignment scenarios. Rice can't get any lower in football right now. It would mean dropping the football program, or going down to D3. We've had seven straight losing seasons. It has been a dismal existence. Someone please tell me this is 'rock bottom.'
09-17-2021 10:02 AM
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Post: #9
RE: Rice Future
(09-17-2021 10:02 AM)Ourland Wrote:  
(09-17-2021 08:32 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-17-2021 07:14 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 11:10 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 10:51 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Can we stop with the B.S. already. We've hit bottom in both baseball and basketball, and both I believe are on the upswing. Certainly basketball is, and baseball should be this coming season.
As for the first poster, the Sun Belt is NOT an upgrade over C-USA. Not even close.
Basketball is on the upswing-I agree with you on that. But being the #150 team vs. the #225 team doesn’t move the needle.
You believe baseball is on the upswing. Conferences don’t make decisions based on boosters’ belief. Reality is that the Bragga hire was a swing and a miss and dug us in a deeper hole.
As for football, which is BY FAR the biggest determinant in conference realignment, we continue to fall like a rock. Until football hits rock bottom, you can’t argue that we’re doing any better than treading water.
I don't disagree with your comments on what drives conference decision-making, I was simply responding to 69/70/75's comment that we have not yet hit bottom. That's totally B.S., and he knows it.

No we haven't. Things could get much worse than this. And it's total B.S. to suggest that they couldn't, or won't with the present leadership team in place.

If we aren't at 'rock bottom' in football right now, then I hate to think about what 'rock bottom' would look like for us. Here we are located in the fourth largest city in the country, with an incredible academic reputation, but our football is so bad that we aren't even mentioned in any realignment scenarios. Rice can't get any lower in football right now. It would mean dropping the football program, or going down to D3. We've had seven straight losing seasons. It has been a dismal existence. Someone please tell me this is 'rock bottom.'

This is the bottom


Seriously, two things about the bottom:

1. You aren't at the bottom as long as there is somebody lower
2. Until you start back up, it's not the bottom.


I think we can go lower, so not at the bottom yet.
09-17-2021 10:11 AM
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Post: #10
RE: Rice Future
(09-17-2021 08:32 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-17-2021 07:14 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 11:10 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 10:51 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 10:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  It's like they teach you in 12-step programs. You have to hit bottom first. Rice hasn't hit bottom yet.
Can we stop with the B.S. already. We've hit bottom in both baseball and basketball, and both I believe are on the upswing. Certainly basketball is, and baseball should be this coming season.
As for the first poster, the Sun Belt is NOT an upgrade over C-USA. Not even close.
Basketball is on the upswing-I agree with you on that. But being the #150 team vs. the #225 team doesn’t move the needle.
You believe baseball is on the upswing. Conferences don’t make decisions based on boosters’ belief. Reality is that the Bragga hire was a swing and a miss and dug us in a deeper hole.
As for football, which is BY FAR the biggest determinant in conference realignment, we continue to fall like a rock. Until football hits rock bottom, you can’t argue that we’re doing any better than treading water.
I don't disagree with your comments on what drives conference decision-making, I was simply responding to 69/70/75's comment that we have not yet hit bottom. That's totally B.S., and he knows it.

No we haven't. Things could get much worse than this. And it's total B.S. to suggest that they couldn't, or won't with the present leadership team in place.

Fair to say that current leadership (Leebron) has presided over the greatest drop in Rice prestige ever (academic and athletics).
09-17-2021 12:14 PM
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RE: Rice Future
(09-17-2021 12:14 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(09-17-2021 08:32 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-17-2021 07:14 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 11:10 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(09-16-2021 10:51 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Can we stop with the B.S. already. We've hit bottom in both baseball and basketball, and both I believe are on the upswing. Certainly basketball is, and baseball should be this coming season.
As for the first poster, the Sun Belt is NOT an upgrade over C-USA. Not even close.
Basketball is on the upswing-I agree with you on that. But being the #150 team vs. the #225 team doesn’t move the needle.
You believe baseball is on the upswing. Conferences don’t make decisions based on boosters’ belief. Reality is that the Bragga hire was a swing and a miss and dug us in a deeper hole.
As for football, which is BY FAR the biggest determinant in conference realignment, we continue to fall like a rock. Until football hits rock bottom, you can’t argue that we’re doing any better than treading water.
I don't disagree with your comments on what drives conference decision-making, I was simply responding to 69/70/75's comment that we have not yet hit bottom. That's totally B.S., and he knows it.

No we haven't. Things could get much worse than this. And it's total B.S. to suggest that they couldn't, or won't with the present leadership team in place.

Fair to say that current leadership (Leebron) has presided over the greatest drop in Rice prestige ever (academic and athletics).

Not defending Leebron, but seriously? No, it's not fair to say. You do realize Rice athletics, save for Baseball, was awful when Leebron took over, right? The women sports weren't very good either. As for academic standing, we're pretty much where we were when he took over based on USW&NR, but much better ranked in several criteria by Princeton. We get it-- you hate Leebron and JK, and blame them for everything-- but can we stop with the hyperbole and exaggeration.
09-17-2021 04:18 PM
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Post: #12
RE: Rice Future
Both basketball teams won 22 games in 2004, soccer won 11 and football 5. Possibly men bskb was the best team since the 40s and a Yamar injury away from a great season. I suspect that fb team would beat this years. Is that awful?
09-17-2021 04:41 PM
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RE: Rice Future
(09-17-2021 04:41 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  Both basketball teams won 22 games in 2004, soccer won 11 and football 5. Possibly men bskb was the best team since the 40s and a Yamar injury away from a great season. I suspect that fb team would beat this years. Is that awful?

And football went to four consecutive bowls and won a conference championship during Leebron's tenure. And, no, I'm not giving him credit for that, but neither should he be blamed for the recent down cycle. Again, women's athletics at Rice have reached a historical peak under Leebron....but I don't give him credit for that either.
09-17-2021 04:52 PM
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RE: Rice Future
And the Barker twins graduated in 2004, the best two tennis players for rice since Estes and Solomon. Pretty awful....
09-17-2021 04:56 PM
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RE: Rice Future
(09-17-2021 04:56 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  And the Barker twins graduated in 2004, the best two tennis players for rice since Estes and Solomon. Pretty awful....

And where exactly were we in 2005?
09-17-2021 05:02 PM
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RE: Rice Future
(09-17-2021 04:41 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  Both basketball teams won 22 games in 2004, soccer won 11 and football 5. Possibly men bskb was the best team since the 40s and a Yamar injury away from a great season. I suspect that fb team would beat this years. Is that awful?

Men's track produced the NCAA champion in decathlon that year: Ryan Harlan.
09-17-2021 05:08 PM
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Post: #17
RE: Rice Future
(09-17-2021 04:52 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(09-17-2021 04:41 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  Both basketball teams won 22 games in 2004, soccer won 11 and football 5. Possibly men bskb was the best team since the 40s and a Yamar injury away from a great season. I suspect that fb team would beat this years. Is that awful?

And football went to four consecutive bowls and won a conference championship during Leebron's tenure. And, no, I'm not giving him credit for that, but neither should he be blamed for the recent down cycle. Again, women's athletics at Rice have reached a historical peak under Leebron....but I don't give him credit for that either.

He should absolutely be blamed for running a university that doesn’t care about athletics. Look at our conference affiliation during his tenure. 90+% of the country doesn’t know who we are or any of the teams we play against. Sure we used to lose to UT 8/10 times but now it’s 10/10 and we lose to directional schools that didn’t have a football program 8/10 times. Who cares about bowls when all you have to do is win 4-5 games against FBS teams and beat 1 FCS one to get in.

In terms of rankings we weren’t below Vandy or Emory when Leebron took over. He’s done a good job fundraising. That’s about it.
09-17-2021 05:11 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Rice Future
(09-17-2021 05:11 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  In terms of rankings we weren’t below Vandy or Emory when Leebron took over. He’s done a good job fundraising. That’s about it.

But those funds haven't been invested in ways that improve the product--academically or athletically. He's fundraising off a tired brand--and not doing anything to revitalize or improve the brand.
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2021 05:34 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-17-2021 05:33 PM
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RE: Rice Future
(09-17-2021 05:33 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-17-2021 05:11 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  In terms of rankings we weren’t below Vandy or Emory when Leebron took over. He’s done a good job fundraising. That’s about it.

But those funds haven't been invested in ways that improve the product--academically or athletically. He's fundraising off a tired brand--and not doing anything to revitalize or improve the brand.

Seriously? The Rice Investment has not positively impact our brand? Give it a rest already.
09-17-2021 05:53 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Rice Future
(09-17-2021 05:11 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  Sure we used to lose to UT 8/10 times but now it’s 10/10 and we lose to directional schools that didn’t have a football program 8/10 times.

From 1966-2004, Rice was 1-33 against Texas. That's just a little worse than 2/10.
09-17-2021 06:41 PM
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