(09-16-2021 10:44 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 08:33 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Here is my conclusion after reading over these numbers.....no one from CUSA will be paying $5-6 million exit fees to make substantially less money in the SBC. If anything, the CUSA will be raiding the SBC if we happen to lose teams during this re-alignment period.

Yep. Sun Belt fans assume that ESPN would redo their TV contract with Marshall and Southern Miss added. Sun Belt is looking to go to 12 in football with revenue split 14 ways as long as Arkansas-Little Rock and Texas-Arlington are still in the conference. If CUSA loses only 4 to the AAC or Mountain West, the conference could remain at 10 and increase its TV revenue shares per school with fewer mouths.

There's some logical fallacies here: The Sun Belt under no circumstance is going to expand without the mothership's approval. That thing was all agreed upon very quickly by the League Presidents.

Also, you seem to be under the idea that UTA and LR participate in conference revenue streams the way others do. They don't. As non football members, they don't see any profit that comes from the football side of the league, which is roughly 90 percent of our profits. The only profits they share is NCAA Units and whatever we make off of conference sponsorship deals.

Has anyone vetted ANY of these numbers? Where did this guy off of herdfans get this info?

(09-17-2021 12:08 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 10:44 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 08:33 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Here is my conclusion after reading over these numbers.....no one from CUSA will be paying $5-6 million exit fees to make substantially less money in the SBC. If anything, the CUSA will be raiding the SBC if we happen to lose teams during this re-alignment period.

Yep. Sun Belt fans assume that ESPN would redo their TV contract with Marshall and Southern Miss added. Sun Belt is looking to go to 12 in football with revenue split 14 ways as long as Arkansas-Little Rock and Texas-Arlington are still in the conference. If CUSA loses only 4 to the AAC or Mountain West, the conference could remain at 10 and increase its TV revenue shares per school with fewer mouths.

There's some logical fallacies here: The Sun Belt under no circumstance is going to expand without the mothership's approval. That thing was all agreed upon very quickly by the League Presidents.

Also, you seem to be under the idea that UTA and LR participate in conference revenue streams the way others do. They don't. As non football members, they don't see any profit that comes from the football side of the league, which is roughly 90 percent of our profits. The only profits they share is NCAA Units and whatever we make off of conference sponsorship deals.

So which is it? Are NCAA units the driver of conference revenue, or is it football where 90% of profits are made?

(09-16-2021 11:54 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 08:52 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 08:47 PM)Noodles Wrote:  How is C-USA so much higher?

No idea, but that's pretty significant. In fact, I don't see any CUSA team paying $5-6 million to go to the SBC and make less money. Especially that much less.

Only thing I can imagine is more bowl payouts, more money from NCAA Tournaments in basketball?

Bowl payouts don't mean a darn thing. NCAA Units are the single largest driver of that. However, you need to keep in mind that NCAA units drop off over the years. There was a long period where CUSA was profiting off of Memphis old NCAA Units before those eventually fell off.

What you make in NCAA units right now is not what you'll make in units in 3 years.

Six years ago with units that are now expired, C-USA had 11 and the SBC had 9. The current 6-year cycle for payouts next April with all conferences getting a 0 for 2020 is 9 units for C-USA and just 6 for the SBC.

The SBC's only 2-unit year of the current 6-year cycle (2016) drops off with the 2022 Tournament. C-USA would also drop a 2-unit year in 2016, but it still has 3 2-unit years left (2017, 2018, and 2021) in the 2017-2022 cycle that is to be paid out in April 2023.

(09-17-2021 12:08 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 10:44 PM)All4One Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 08:33 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Here is my conclusion after reading over these numbers.....no one from CUSA will be paying $5-6 million exit fees to make substantially less money in the SBC. If anything, the CUSA will be raiding the SBC if we happen to lose teams during this re-alignment period.

Yep. Sun Belt fans assume that ESPN would redo their TV contract with Marshall and Southern Miss added. Sun Belt is looking to go to 12 in football with revenue split 14 ways as long as Arkansas-Little Rock and Texas-Arlington are still in the conference. If CUSA loses only 4 to the AAC or Mountain West, the conference could remain at 10 and increase its TV revenue shares per school with fewer mouths.

There's some logical fallacies here: The Sun Belt under no circumstance is going to expand without the mothership's approval. That thing was all agreed upon very quickly by the League Presidents.

Also, you seem to be under the idea that UTA and LR participate in conference revenue streams the way others do. They don't. As non football members, they don't see any profit that comes from the football side of the league, which is roughly 90 percent of our profits. The only profits they share is NCAA Units and whatever we make off of conference sponsorship deals.

Nope, I'm very well aware that non-football schools do not share in revenue the same way as football schools. But you also said NCAA units (largely from NCAA basketball tournaments) was the single largest driver in revenue distribution.

(09-17-2021 12:24 AM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  Has anyone vetted ANY of these numbers? Where did this guy off of herdfans get this info?

He said from the 990s, so anyone can look them up and dispute them if they want. I’m sure his numbers are accurate though, especially with him giving the info as to where he got it so they could easily be disputed.

(09-16-2021 11:54 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 08:52 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 08:47 PM)Noodles Wrote:  How is C-USA so much higher?

No idea, but that's pretty significant. In fact, I don't see any CUSA team paying $5-6 million to go to the SBC and make less money. Especially that much less.

Only thing I can imagine is more bowl payouts, more money from NCAA Tournaments in basketball?

Bowl payouts don't mean a darn thing. NCAA Units are the single largest driver of that. However, you need to keep in mind that NCAA units drop off over the years. There was a long period where CUSA was profiting off of Memphis old NCAA Units before those eventually fell off.

What you make in NCAA units right now is not what you'll make in units in 3 years.

Bowl games have payouts for a reason. I’m not sure what the differences are between our bowls, that was just a guess on my part.

As for the NCAA Units. The Memphis units have been gone lol. The current disparity of units is because CUSA is a MUCH better basketball conference. I hope we can do something to help the anchors improve so we can start to get that 2nd bid each year. We are very close, but can’t get over the hump.

(09-17-2021 08:08 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 11:54 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 08:52 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 08:47 PM)Noodles Wrote:  How is C-USA so much higher?

No idea, but that's pretty significant. In fact, I don't see any CUSA team paying $5-6 million to go to the SBC and make less money. Especially that much less.

Only thing I can imagine is more bowl payouts, more money from NCAA Tournaments in basketball?

Bowl payouts don't mean a darn thing. NCAA Units are the single largest driver of that. However, you need to keep in mind that NCAA units drop off over the years. There was a long period where CUSA was profiting off of Memphis old NCAA Units before those eventually fell off.

What you make in NCAA units right now is not what you'll make in units in 3 years.

Bowl games have payouts for a reason. I’m not sure what the differences are between our bowls, that was just a guess on my part.

As for the NCAA Units. The Memphis units have been gone lol. The current disparity of units is because CUSA is a MUCH better basketball conference. I hope we can do something to help the anchors improve so we can start to get that 2nd bid each year. We are very close, but can’t get over the hump.

Bowl games do have payouts, but the amount of the payout is contingent on what proportion of a school's total ticket allotment is sold to the bowl game. Truth be told, listed bowl payouts are only the maximum amount a school can get if they sell their entire ticket allotment. Some schools actually lose money on bowl games because of expensive travel costs for the team and staff, etc coupled with lousy ticket sales. This is typical for many Gof5 schools that play in the Hawaii Bowl or Bahamas Bowl or have a bowl invitation across the country.

Well whatever the reasons are, as we can see from the numbers. CUSA makes more money as a conference and more money per team. If we lose a few teams then the average per team will only increase in CUSA.

Just glad to see some people now realizing that basketball revenue is important at the G5 level and can move the needle for us (I actually brought this up back in March).

(09-17-2021 09:11 AM)topper1296 Wrote:  Just glad to see some people now realizing that basketball revenue is important at the G5 level and can move the needle for us (I actually brought this up back in March).

Yes. If Marshall stays in CUSA then I want to see this conference make a significant attempt to become a multi bid league. We are close, and it could happen with some commitment.

Honestly, top to bottom, as a football conference CUSA has been what I expected. The big issue is I was ok with bringing in football projects as I thought we were building a multi bid basketball conference. That hasn’t worked out. I’m fine with being an average football conference if we would get our stuff together in basketball and consistently get at least 2 bids to NCAAT every year.

(09-17-2021 09:11 AM)topper1296 Wrote:  Just glad to see some people now realizing that basketball revenue is important at the G5 level and can move the needle for us (I actually brought this up back in March).

Exactly.

CUSA losing FAU/UAB/UTSA isn’t crippling on the basketball front. Add some good football schools from the belt or Liberty and you’ve got a damn good conference.

Some more numbers that may help: Southern Miss received around $1.3 million from CUSA in 2019.

(09-17-2021 09:24 AM)raptorbpw Wrote:  Some more numbers that may help: Southern Miss received around $1.3 million from CUSA in 2019.

Two years of that as an exit fee should be doable.

This is the problem with numbers and not up to date numbers at that.

AAC will have to redo their contract immediately to the worse unless they get the MWC teams that ESPN covets. It's why they are mentioned as targets.

The MAC will remain the same

CUSA is going to lose as many as 4-5 teams, maybe more and one of them will be the ratings leader most years. Their money is going to drop, significantly.

The Sunbelt has a raise already not reflected in those numbers. Not AAC current money but much better than what is there for the last 2 years. And ESPN has told them there is more available to them if they get a few teams from CUSA that ESPN covets.

If the MWC stands pat they will be unchanged and may in fact lose revenue depending on who the Sunbelt adds and who the AAC can lure over. Either one can drop their status from solid #2 to #3 or worse.

Conferences that can add teams that ESPN doesn't control but would like to are going to get more money from them to cover the cost of those teams. It saves them from having to pay for a whole new conference. They're picking a la cart who they want and encouraging the AAC and Sunbelt to get them. ESPN is going to get UAB and Marshall, either way. I have no idea who they're taking after that. But rest assured CUSA is cooked and will be squarely at the bottom of that money list in 2 years.

(09-16-2021 08:31 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  One of the posters pembrook burrows III posted this info on our main message board over at www.herdfans.com

*****************************************************************

I have obtained the Form 990s for the G5 conferences for their fiscal years ending June 30, 2019, and June 30, 2020. Obviously, June 30, 2021 Form 990s have not yet been filed.

In terms of dollars, the AAC ranks as the clear top dog in the G5, with the Sun Belt Conference as the poor man.

Total revenues of each conference are set forth below.

AAC 2019 $73,203,230
MWC 2019 $57,058,330
CUSA 2019 $44,250,642
MAC 2019 $30,848,489
SBC 2019 $33,072,881

AAC 2020 $111,278,729
MWC 2020 $ (not available)
CUSA 2020 $40,861,629
MAC 2020 $32,241,698
SBC 2020 $31,584,812

Revenues from TV/media rights are interesting. These amounts are included in the total revenues above.

AAC 2019 $22,726,100
MWC 2019 $14,232,915
CUSA 2019 $6,968,263
MAC 2019 $8,639,734
SBC 2019 $3,920,523

AAC 2020 $43,988,700
MWC 2020 $ (not available)
CUSA 2020 $6,440,156
MAC 2020 $9,186,590
SBC 2020 $2,250,000

By far, the largest expense amounts for each conference are the grants and distributions they make to their member institutions. The total grant/distribution amounts set forth below are net of any membership dues paid to the conferences. The parenthetical amount represents an average grant/distribution amount for each conference member, although these individual amounts can vary widely depending on the formulas used by each conference to hand out the money.

AAC 2019 $49,635,911 ($4,136,326)
MWC 2019 $42,883,422 ($3,898,493)
CUSA 2019 $27,876,250 ($1,991,161)
MAC 2019 $24,116,351 ($2,009,696)
SBC 2019 $17,959,464 ($1,496,622)

AAC 2020 $65,385,468 ($5,029,651)
MWC 2020 $ (not available)
CUSA 2020 $26,620,665 ($1,901,476)
MAC 2020 $24,530,154 ($2,044,180)
SBC 2020 $14,882,160 ($1,240,180)

Below are the highest payouts to an individual conference member in each year.

AAC 2019 $7,476,770 (UCF)
MWC 2019 $ (not available)
CUSA 2019 $2,921,341 (Middle Tennessee)
MAC 2019 $2,393,714 (Toledo)
SBC 2019 $1,621,356 (Georgia St.)

AAC 2020 $8,656,466 (Memphis)
MWC 2020 $ (not available)
CUSA 2020 $2,739,105 (Marshall)
MAC 2020 $2,386,989 (Buffalo)
SBC 2020 $1,386,608 (Georgia St.)

Finally, one way of measuring the financial health of an organization is to look at its net worth - calculated by determining how much its total assets exceed its total liabilities. This calculation taken from the Form 990 of each conference reveals the following:

AAC 2020 $43,315,213
MWC 2020 $ (not available, but was $7,984,041 in 2019)
CUSA 2020 $8,748,914
MAC 2020 $6,431,401
SBC 2020 $6,457,663

One could conclude from all this financial data that a possible move by Marshall to the AAC might be expected to eventually increase revenues by $2-3 million per year on average, or by as much as $5 million per year if Marshall's teams performed exceedingly well in football and/or men's basketball. Conversely, a possible move by Marshall to the SBC might be expected to decrease revenues by $1 to 1.5 million per year. One might question whether the SBC generates enough money to feed an additional mouth or two through expansion, at least without identifying additional sources of revenue through TV/media rights or other means. Perhaps the recent SBC's TV/media contract extension with ESPN announced in July will generate additional dollars, though none were mentioned in the press release. A move by Marshall to the MAC would be, at best, a lateral one financially.

Of course, all of this becomes even more complicated if CUSA teams start dropping off (UAB/FAU to the AAC? ODU to the Atlantic 10?). After the AAC, I do believe CUSA is the most unstable conference. The idea of forming a new conference sounds great, but is not very practical given the fact it would not have access to the football playoffs, would not have access to an auto berth in the NCAA basketball tournaments, and would not have any established TV/media revenue. Getting an additional auto berth in basketball only takes money away from P5 at-large berth contenders, so good luck getting that approved by the NCAA. It would be difficult for any school to abandon its conference affiliation for a new conference venture given this level of uncertainty.

Excellent info., thanks for posting!

(09-16-2021 11:02 PM)IslandHerd1 Wrote:  So $$$ could potentially lead to this?::

CUSA North*/South

App State*
Charlotte*
Coastal
FIU
Ga Sou
La Tech
Liberty*
Marshall*
MTSU
ODU*
So Miss
WKU*

Give me that, please.

(09-17-2021 08:06 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(09-17-2021 12:24 AM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  Has anyone vetted ANY of these numbers? Where did this guy off of herdfans get this info?

He said from the 990s, so anyone can look them up and dispute them if they want. I’m sure his numbers are accurate though, especially with him giving the info as to where he got it so they could easily be disputed.

?

(09-17-2021 12:24 AM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  Has anyone vetted ANY of these numbers? Where did this guy off of herdfans get this info?

I have questioned the hype that the Sun Belt all the sudden had way more money than CUSA. Historically.. Like before last year CUSA budgets tended to be about 10 million more with a better (money) TV contract.

(09-17-2021 09:24 AM)raptorbpw Wrote:  Some more numbers that may help: Southern Miss received around $1.3 million from CUSA in 2019.

So you received the same amount as the highest team in the SBC? I’m not good at math but you would make less money in the SBC.