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Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
Not yet. Once they start XII play, then yes.
09-14-2021 08:15 PM
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forphase1 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
Nope. Once the change happens, then maybe. But right now all three teams are the same G5 teams they were before the announcement happened.
09-14-2021 08:19 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
It's important to make a distinction between a "major" program that is a member of a "power" league and major program that is not.

Vanderbilt (my favorite university/college athletics program) offers a major football program that is a member of a power league. Obviously, VU benefits hugely from its SEC affiliation. Conversely, I consider BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF as major football programs that are not part of a power league. And BYU in particular.

Some folks (including some on this board) feel for a league to be power in football, it must (among other metrics) offer at least one "high-major" to "elite/blueblood" program. As such, and for example, when Texas and Oklahoma leave, such people feel the Big 12 will no longer be power in football. To some extent, I agree. However, and to take this approach to the extreme, one could loosely argue that if Texas and Oklahoma were joining the Sun Belt ... boom, Belt football would be a "power league." We know that would not be the case. As such, I feel there is sometimes too much emphasis placed on the "elite/blueblood" program component related to defining the five power leagues.

As to Cyniclones questions regarding our perceptions: I'm a fairly big Cincinnati fan and still miss the days when UC was a member of "power" football league the Big East. Once UC was relegated to the AAC, I continued to consider Bearcat football a "major" program worthy of a power league home. But, admittedly, I'm biased.

I recall (and quite well) the days when Houston was a member of the Southwest Conference and cranked out some strong teams and players. It was "power affiliated" for its day.

UCF football is more difficult to categorize because it is "newish." The Knight football program has elevated itself dramatically in a relatively brief time frame. I'm impressed and give full credit. It's a major program that is now superior (and in some cases vastly) to many so-called "P5 programs" (my Commodore football program included).

As most of us agree, "power" in college football is defined almost exclusively by resources and league affiliation. That's why Vanderbilt football is considered power and Cincinnati football is not. It's not fair. But it's the reality.

Basketball is a dramatically different animal, with a program defined as major to high-major as much based on historic results, fan base, coaching history and players sent to the NBA as opposed to based on (as with football) resources and league affiliation. For example, Memphis hoops (I'll use another of my favorite athletic programs) has always been major to high-major — despite being a member of leagues far less prestigious than the Big Ten, SEC and ACC.

As I have posted multiple times the last few weeks: I feel the general college football fan perception of the future Big 12 will be that the league is "sufficiently power."
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2021 08:42 PM by bill dazzle.)
09-14-2021 08:39 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
Yes, the power 5 is now 69 schools…all four schools are immediately in the club. It’s possible that over time the entire B12 conference will no longer have power status…but today the B12 is a power conference.

As a football independent, BYU will have a higher percentage of fans and commentators describing them as a power school. It’s harder for the AAC schools to be considered power programs during this transition period because there is not much differentiation with other AAC members such as Memphis or USF. Nevertheless, they are all in.
09-14-2021 08:50 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Online
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Post: #25
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
No. There is no one in the conference that owns their media market or is a football brand. From a west coast perspective, we lose a lot of football recruits to schools like Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Clemson, Ohio State, Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas and Notre Dame. There is no one in the New Big 12 that is even remotely a threat to steal football recruits. BYU is the one school that recruits California, but they are no threat.

New Kansas AD Travis Goff had some interesting things to say at a recent press conference:
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/colleg...50223.html

“We’re less secure now than we were eight weeks ago, and maybe significantly financially less secure,” Goff said. “The facts are there’s most likely a scenario where when we do a new deal with a makeup where we likely can’t stay at the level we’re at. And I think that’s pretty well documented. That shouldn’t be a surprise to anybody, the value that Texas and OU brought.”

He indicated that Kansas is not done looking for another conference. Eventually a few schools may find their way out of the conference, but if nothing else, the rumors will never stop. It is never going to feel stable.
09-14-2021 08:57 PM
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VCE Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
Cincinnati feels closest to me having had success in a pseudo power conference before. Houston had some success in the SWC, but that was 30 years ago. UCF has never played a week in week out tough schedule, so I’ll believe it when I see it.
09-14-2021 09:14 PM
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sierrajip Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
(09-14-2021 09:14 PM)VCE Wrote:  Cincinnati feels closest to me having had success in a pseudo power conference before. Houston had some success in the SWC, but that was 30 years ago. UCF has never played a week in week out tough schedule, so I’ll believe it when I see it.

With more money and maybe a better perception to new recruits, that will change.
09-14-2021 09:51 PM
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VCE Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
(09-14-2021 09:51 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 09:14 PM)VCE Wrote:  Cincinnati feels closest to me having had success in a pseudo power conference before. Houston had some success in the SWC, but that was 30 years ago. UCF has never played a week in week out tough schedule, so I’ll believe it when I see it.

With more money and maybe a better perception to new recruits, that will change.

Hopefully. Good luck to all three (and BYU)!
09-14-2021 09:54 PM
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sierrajip Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
(09-14-2021 09:54 PM)VCE Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 09:51 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 09:14 PM)VCE Wrote:  Cincinnati feels closest to me having had success in a pseudo power conference before. Houston had some success in the SWC, but that was 30 years ago. UCF has never played a week in week out tough schedule, so I’ll believe it when I see it.

With more money and maybe a better perception to new recruits, that will change.

Hopefully. Good luck to all three (and BYU)!

04-cheers
09-14-2021 09:55 PM
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Troy_Fan_15 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
I’ve always thought of Cincinnati, BYU, and Houston is Power 5 teams. UCF has been growing on me as a P5 the last 3 years.
09-14-2021 10:01 PM
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BatonRougeEscapee Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
Nope. They are still in the G5. Doesn't mean they aren't legit though. They will be A5 in 2 years, then we will see if they follow a Big East type descent or solidify the R8.
09-14-2021 10:58 PM
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RecoveringHillbilly Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
(09-14-2021 07:40 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  With the exception of UConn, Nevada and UMass, they are all in states with less than 2 million people. Buffalo is not really a flagship.

+New Mexico...and fine, Buffalo and Stony Brook. NY passed 20M people, so at least 2 AAU flagships makes sense.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2021 01:16 AM by RecoveringHillbilly.)
09-15-2021 01:15 AM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
(09-14-2021 08:11 PM)EEResistable Wrote:  I'm an old man and remember WVU as an independent playing Cinci, ECU, Temple, etc and being on even terms with them. Also remember Major Harris losing out to Andre Ware from Houston for the Heisman.

And just a few years ago we were at Marshall and a miracle away from a loss. Time and money is all it takes. Given equal circumstances we're all P5.
I'm that same kinda old. I remember that and Penn St. beating Cincinnati 81-0. Houston beating SMU 95-21. Times have changed
09-15-2021 01:24 AM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
And yes i consider them P5. I bought my Houston, UCF hat/shirt, already had Cincy hat/shirt, just bought a a hoodie. I need to make a poll what wins my ocd and caving to get a BYU hat/shirt or my hate for BYU and not wanting to own any of their stuff let alone hang it up in a room. The same scenario could happen again if Boise gets in the Big 12.
09-15-2021 01:30 AM
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46566 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
I think it'll hit me a few years after the move. I expect or hope recruiting picks up next season as most recruiting is done with this year. They should start picking up better recruits. While I'm not expecting 5 star recruits but maybe a few more 4 stars or higher ranked 3 stars then normal. Basically I view them as a P5 if they can start recruiting as a P5 on a Standard basis in at least 1 sport.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2021 01:32 AM by 46566.)
09-15-2021 01:31 AM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
It's not a P5, it's a P4.
09-15-2021 05:28 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
There are no P5 teams. Only P5 conferences. So the only question is whether you accept the Big 12 as a P5 conference or not. If you do, then these schools are every bit as much of a P5 as Kansas, Wake Forest, Rutgers and other schools that populate the lower end of the power conferences. If you don't, then you would have to say that football powerhouses like Oklahoma State, Kansas State and TCU are no longer P5 schools as well.
09-15-2021 05:43 AM
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Cowboy Frog Offline
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Post: #38
Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
P5 is a term for CONFERENCES ..NOT individual schools


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09-15-2021 06:11 AM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
(09-14-2021 06:18 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  If Louisville is a P5, then Cincy and Houston are as well.

Long stated that those two were the most P5 like schools not in the P5 in terms of Athletic success, history, academics, support.


BYU also has all the trappings of a P5.


UCF doesn't at this point, just because of it's newness, but has the highest ceiling. Florida can easily support 4 P5's - after all, Texas has 5 currently, not counting Houston. North Carolina has 4 right now as well.

California, too.
09-15-2021 06:47 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Do you think of the Big 12's newest members as P5 schools right now?
(09-15-2021 05:43 AM)ken d Wrote:  There are no P5 teams. Only P5 conferences. So the only question is whether you accept the Big 12 as a P5 conference or not. If you do, then these schools are every bit as much of a P5 as Kansas, Wake Forest, Rutgers and other schools that populate the lower end of the power conferences. If you don't, then you would have to say that football powerhouses like Oklahoma State, Kansas State and TCU are no longer P5 schools as well.

My view is along those lines. As long as TX and OU are still in the Big 12, which they are, it is still a P5 conference. Once they actually join the SEC, it no longer is.

As the new schools are not yet in the Big 12, they are IMO still G5 schools, as they are still members of G5 conferences.

So as of now, schools like TCU and OK State are still P5 schools, UCF and BYU are not.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2021 06:58 AM by quo vadis.)
09-15-2021 06:57 AM
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