The ACC once again easily maintained the top average and median ranking among all Power5 and FBS athletic conferences.

ACC: mean 55.1 (median 55)
B10: mean 60.1 (median 61)
Pac-12: mean 82.7 (median 99)
SEC: mean 110.9 (median 119.5)
B12: mean 137.8 (median 124.5)

ACC:
Duke 9
Notre Dame 19
Virginia 25
North Carolina 28
Wake Forest 28
Boston College 36
Georgia Tech 38
Miami 55
Florida State 55
Pitt 59
Syracuse 59
Clemson 75
Virginia Tech 75
NC State 79
Louisville 187


Here's the rank of all Power 5 schools (ACC in bold):

6 Stanford
9 Duke
9 Northwestern
14 Vanderbilt
19 Notre Dame
20 UCLA
22 Cal-Berkeley
23 Michigan
25 Virginia
27 USC
28 North Carolina
28 Wake Forest
28 Florida
36 Boston College
38 Georgia Tech
38 Texas
42 Wisconsin
47 Illinois
48 Georgia
49 Ohio State
49 Purdue
55 Miami
55 Florida State
59 Pitt
59 Syracuse
59 Maryland
59 Washington
63 Penn State
63 Rutgers
68 Minnesota
68 Indiana
68 Texas A&M
75 Clemson
75 Virginia Tech
75 Baylor
79 NC State
83 Iowa
83 Michigan St
83 TCU
99 Colorado
99 Utah
99 Oregon
99 Auburn
103 Arizona
103 Tennessee
117 Arizona St
117 South Carolina
122 Missouri
122 Iowa St
122 Kansas
127 Kentucky
127 Oklahoma
136 Nebraska
148 Alabama
148 Mississippi
162 Oregon St
162 Arkansas
162 Kansas St
172 LSU
179 Washington St
187 Louisville
187 Oklahoma St
196 Mississippi St
213 Texas Tech
249 West Virginia

(incoming Power5: BYU 83, Cincinnati 148, UCF 148, Houston 179)

I have to say this: WVU is the dead last at 249.

I recognize that this is mainly a measure of reputation and a not some truly objective ranking. IMO, the impressive result is the rapid rise in rankings of public universities in Florida and Texas…UF at #28, UT at #38, FSU at #55 and TAMU at #68. UGA at #48 is also a program on the rise. A few decades ago, the lower sun-belt schools where generally perceived as being meh in terms of academic heft.

Again making you wonder ... why the heck is Louisville in the ACC?

(09-13-2021 01:08 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  I recognize that this is mainly a measure of reputation and a not some truly objective ranking. IMO, the impressive result is the rapid rise in rankings of public universities in Florida and Texas…UF at #28, UT at #38, FSU at #55 and TAMU at #68. UGA at #48 is also a program on the rise. A few decades ago, the lower sun-belt schools where generally perceived as being meh in terms of academic heft.

Actually the biggest chunk of their metric involves the gpa and sat scores of the admitted students as well the percentage admitted. Then they talk to various biased folk.

All you need to do to move up aggressively is gin up applications and to have entering students retake SAT's in the summer before matriculation. How do you gin up applications? You can send them out for free, you can have your state high school counselors encourage applications even though you have no chance in hell of admission. You can stay small relative to demand in your state. You can raise your profile through advertising or athletics.

Play for a national title in football or basketball and that will net you an additional 3-5K applications for a couple of years. It can have a large effect the smaller you are.

Long term it's a smart play to highlight undergraduate education and to make it enjoyable so as to generate alumni contributions. However there are still a few who refuse to do that and their philosophy is that undergrads need to suffer.

(09-13-2021 11:04 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  I have to say this: WVU is the dead last at 249.

Part of what you are seeing is the population crash in West Va. West Va financially needs to take anyone willing to pay. It's a growing problem in Kansas and Nebraska as well.

(09-13-2021 01:37 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Again making you wonder ... why the heck is Louisville in the ACC?

Louisvilles ranking (#187) doesnt really hurt the ACC. The ACC was firmly ahead of the #2 P5 conference academically, which is the BIG, before Louisville was added, and the ACC is still firmly ahead of the BIG, even after Louisville was added. Nebraska is a similar outlier in the BIG at #136 which, is similarly questionable. And I would much rather have Louisville than WV, which was pointed out by "Random AG" as being dead last among fbs schools. At least Louisville has a pretty decent med school

(09-13-2021 02:07 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 01:08 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  I recognize that this is mainly a measure of reputation and a not some truly objective ranking. IMO, the impressive result is the rapid rise in rankings of public universities in Florida and Texas…UF at #28, UT at #38, FSU at #55 and TAMU at #68. UGA at #48 is also a program on the rise. A few decades ago, the lower sun-belt schools where generally perceived as being meh in terms of academic heft.

Actually the biggest chunk of their metric involves the gpa and sat scores of the admitted students as well the percentage admitted. Then they talk to various biased folk.

All you need to do to move up aggressively is gin up applications and to have entering students retake SAT's in the summer before matriculation. How do you gin up applications? You can send them out for free, you can have your state high school counselors encourage applications even though you have no chance in hell of admission. You can stay small relative to demand in your state. You can raise your profile through advertising or athletics.

Play for a national title in football or basketball and that will net you an additional 3-5K applications for a couple of years. It can have a large effect the smaller you are.

Long term it's a smart play to highlight undergraduate education and to make it enjoyable so as to generate alumni contributions. However there are still a few who refuse to do that and their philosophy is that undergrads need to suffer.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-co...e-rankings

Per USNews’ published methodology, SAT/ACT scores (aka standardized test selectivity) are worth 5% of the overall ranking. GPA only affects 2% of the ranking. The peer assessment survey (aka reputation) is worth 20% of the score. It’s really a beauty contest and Florida public schools are clearly on the rise…University of Florida was #58 in 2012, a decade later they are #28; Florida State was #101, now they are #55. Each year US News adds more schools to its “national university” rankings and the Florida schools still improve.

For comparison, many schools have modest changes in rankings during a decade…
In 2012: Duke 10, ND 19, UVa 25, WFU 25, UNC 29, BC 31 and GT 36
For 2022: Duke 9, ND 19, UVa 25, WFU 28, UNC 28, BC 36 and GT 38

No doubt that schools look for ways to improve their rankings. Malcolm Gladwell did a great set of podcasts on the US News rankings…and how reputational surveys are biased against HBCUs.

I laugh when I look at these rankings. A useless yearly exercise. I don’t know if it’s funny or sad that some here actually believe they matter.

(09-13-2021 01:37 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Again making you wonder ... why the heck is Louisville in the ACC?

If it were just about academic rankings some Ivy League member or Rice would be in the conference. The ACC needs to have some teams that can play football and bring in eyeballs.

(09-13-2021 05:26 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I laugh when I look at these rankings. A useless yearly exercise. I don’t know if it’s funny or sad that some here actually believe they matter.

Says the Louisville fan.

(09-13-2021 01:08 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  I recognize that this is mainly a measure of reputation and a not some truly objective ranking. IMO, the impressive result is the rapid rise in rankings of public universities in Florida and Texas…UF at #28, UT at #38, FSU at #55 and TAMU at #68. UGA at #48 is also a program on the rise. A few decades ago, the lower sun-belt schools where generally perceived as being meh in terms of academic heft.

Programs like the Florida prepaid college program and Georgia HOPE scholarship have made these schools destinations in their own states. Also, in a state like Florida, and much of the south, there aren't really an abundance of high profile privates like you get in the northeast, so if you are going to take advantage of the in-state cost advantages of these programs, you're going to look at the higher profile state schools.

Look at the conference rankings. That’s why the B12 isn’t joining the alliance. The B12 is far closer to the SEC than the ACC, B10 and PAC.

(09-13-2021 11:04 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  I have to say this: WVU is the dead last at 249.

The reason WVU is dead last is because they are mandated by the state government of West Virginia to accept any person who graduated from high school in West Virginia. TBH, isn't this exactly what we want from a state's land grant educational institution? I mean, honestly, what the heck are our universities turning into? University Presidents who pride themselves and measure against one another by the number of students that their institutions deny admittance as opposed to providing educational opportunities to our fellow Americans. Wasn't the whole purpose of these land grant institutions to provide education to the masses? Is this really something that we should be so proud of as a society, praising a university by how many people they deny? Quite frankly, a lot of these comments have the wiff of Elitism and that is so surprising given the number of red states that are represented in this conference. /rant

(09-13-2021 11:04 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  I have to say this: WVU is the dead last at 249.

The mission of WVU is to educate the residents of WV. They have a very liberal admission policy if you are in state. They don't have any choice, it is how they were chartered. If memory serves, Louisville is in a similar situation. Maybe a UL poster can clarify.

(09-14-2021 11:42 AM)JAE_VT Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 11:04 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  I have to say this: WVU is the dead last at 249.

The reason WVU is dead last is because they are mandated by the state government of West Virginia to accept any person who graduated from high school in West Virginia. TBH, isn't this exactly what we want from a state's land grant educational institution? I mean, honestly, what the heck are our universities turning into? University Presidents who pride themselves and measure against one another by the number of students that their institutions deny admittance as opposed to providing educational opportunities to our fellow Americans. Wasn't the whole purpose of these land grant institutions to provide education to the masses? Is this really something that we should be so proud of as a society, praising a university by how many people they deny? Quite frankly, a lot of these comments have the wiff of Elitism and that is so surprising given the number of red states that are represented in this conference. /rant

By all means every kid at Longwood, Mary Baldwin, Radford, and Liberty ought to be enrolling at VT

We aren't quite an Idiocracy but with work we can get there.

Difference between West Virginia and other states:

In Pennsylvania, there's Penn State, Pittsburgh, Temple, PASSHE universities, and Penn State branch campuses. There should be a responsibility for PA to educate anyone who graduated from a PA high school but no one said the Penn State University Park campus had to. In California, there are tons of UC and Cal State campuses so Berkeley and UCLA can be selective, the other schools in California can take the other students. In Florida, you have UF, FSU, UCF, USF, and probably other schools Floridians know that I don't. How many 4 year public universities are there in West Virginia? That's the issue. Not to mention they don't have a large population to choose from. Why are the public schools in California, Texas (outside of TTU), and Florida higher in the rankings? More in state students to choose from. If more people apply for a school and a fixed number of seats, the acceptance rate goes down. Some academic traditionalists frown on athletics but you don't think winning a national championship or two draws recognition to schools across the country? If it wasn't for their men's basketball team, how many of you would even have heard about Gonzaga? I'm not saying every high school senior in the country is considering Alabama or Clemson but them winning national championships can't hurt interest in those universities.

(09-14-2021 01:23 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 11:04 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  I have to say this: WVU is the dead last at 249.

The mission of WVU is to educate the residents of WV. They have a very liberal admission policy if you are in state. They don't have any choice, it is how they were chartered. If memory serves, Louisville is in a similar situation. Maybe a UL poster can clarify.

Here is the link to admission requirements:
https://louisville.edu/admissions/apply/...guidelines

(09-14-2021 02:52 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Difference between West Virginia and other states:

In Pennsylvania, there's Penn State, Pittsburgh, Temple, PASSHE universities, and Penn State branch campuses. There should be a responsibility for PA to educate anyone who graduated from a PA high school but no one said the Penn State University Park campus had to. In California, there are tons of UC and Cal State campuses so Berkeley and UCLA can be selective, the other schools in California can take the other students. In Florida, you have UF, FSU, UCF, USF, and probably other schools Floridians know that I don't. How many 4 year public universities are there in West Virginia? That's the issue. Not to mention they don't have a large population to choose from. Why are the public schools in California, Texas (outside of TTU), and Florida higher in the rankings? More in state students to choose from. If more people apply for a school and a fixed number of seats, the acceptance rate goes down. Some academic traditionalists frown on athletics but you don't think winning a national championship or two draws recognition to schools across the country? If it wasn't for their men's basketball team, how many of you would even have heard about Gonzaga? I'm not saying every high school senior in the country is considering Alabama or Clemson but them winning national championships can't hurt interest in those universities.

55% of the admissions at WVa are from Out of State. https://www.thedaonline.com/news/class-o...e3ce0.html

Other public 4 year schools in West Va are

West Va State
Bluefield State
Marshall
WVa Wesleyan
West Liberty

Go here to understand what is happening in West Virginia and what has been happening over the last 50 years: https://worldpopulationreview.com/states...population

(09-14-2021 11:42 AM)JAE_VT Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 11:04 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  I have to say this: WVU is the dead last at 249.

The reason WVU is dead last is because they are mandated by the state government of West Virginia to accept any person who graduated from high school in West Virginia. TBH, isn't this exactly what we want from a state's land grant educational institution? I mean, honestly, what the heck are our universities turning into? University Presidents who pride themselves and measure against one another by the number of students that their institutions deny admittance as opposed to providing educational opportunities to our fellow Americans. Wasn't the whole purpose of these land grant institutions to provide education to the masses? Is this really something that we should be so proud of as a society, praising a university by how many people they deny? Quite frankly, a lot of these comments have the wiff of Elitism and that is so surprising given the number of red states that are represented in this conference. /rant

I am a foreigner but here is my take:

1. Higher education is not a right but a privilige.
2. Land grant universities are big but impossible to accept every single applicant unless your state is small and the population is declining like WV. Otherwise the quality of education would greatly suffer.
3. Community colleges are pretty much accepting every single applicant. And I remember there used to an guaranteed admission to VT for community college graduates as long as the GPA requirement is met.
4. Land grant colleges were established to provide agricultural and technical knowledge. Believe or not, VT still offers a two year associate degree in agricutural technology. I don’t think the admission for that program is competitve.
5. Competition and achievement is highly regarded in this country, and the competition is at every level: among high school students, between colleges, and between states.