Wash U breaks the tie with Rice at #16 (which will make my sister very happy).

They are now tied with Vanderbilt and Brown at #14.

Cornell moves to #17 (now tied with Rice).

Not a huge change and Rice is still a first class academic experience but we are not moving in an upward direction as an institution as many have pointed out.

Wash U? Brown? Vandy? wow....

(09-12-2021 08:53 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Wash U breaks the tie with Rice at #16 (which will make my sister very happy).

They are now tied with Vanderbilt and Brown at #14.

Cornell moves to #17 (now tied with Rice).

Not a huge change and Rice is still a first class academic experience but we are not moving in an upward direction as an institution as many have pointed out.

Horrible.

I mean ... we fell 1 spot. I know the general trend over the last 30 years on US News rankings is poor, but I wouldn't read too much into a single very small move.

Also, the US News Rankings are one of many rankings out there. Perhaps it still receives the most publicity (I have no idea), but at the very least students have a lot of information available, including Rice's #7 ranking at Niche.

(09-13-2021 02:36 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I mean ... we fell 1 spot. I know the general trend over the last 30 years on US News rankings is poor, but I wouldn't read too much into a single very small move.

Also, the US News Rankings are one of many rankings out there. Perhaps it still receives the most publicity (I have no idea), but at the very least students have a lot of information available, including Rice's #7 ranking at Niche.

This. A much more meaningful analysis would be to group colleges together by raw scores. I informally did that in one of these threads a few years ago (can't recall if it was Parliament or elsewhere) and we were pretty much in group of about 7 schools where the difference in ranking reflected little or no meaningful differences in the actual scores. But rankings make good headlines and humans like arbitrary cut-offs like Top 10 or Top 20.

I get the angst people have about the rankings - we were in the top 10 when I was a student and that will always be where I think we should be, but as you point out, there are a LOT more rankings now. US News is still the most "prestigious" but it's not the only metric.

One other note on US News specifically - people have estimated that had the Baylor merger gone through, we would have moved up 5-10 spots. If so, that just says the ranking system is stupid. Why does it matter to an undergrad if Rice has a med school? Maybe for a small subset of majors, but otherwise seems irrelevant.

(09-14-2021 09:51 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 02:36 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I mean ... we fell 1 spot. I know the general trend over the last 30 years on US News rankings is poor, but I wouldn't read too much into a single very small move.

Also, the US News Rankings are one of many rankings out there. Perhaps it still receives the most publicity (I have no idea), but at the very least students have a lot of information available, including Rice's #7 ranking at Niche.

This. A much more meaningful analysis would be to group colleges together by raw scores. I informally did that in one of these threads a few years ago (can't recall if it was Parliament or elsewhere) and we were pretty much in group of about 7 schools where the difference in ranking reflected little or no meaningful differences in the actual scores. But rankings make good headlines and humans like arbitrary cut-offs like Top 10 or Top 20.

I get the angst people have about the rankings - we were in the top 10 when I was a student and that will always be where I think we should be, but as you point out, there are a LOT more rankings now. US News is still the most "prestigious" but it's not the only metric.

One other note on US News specifically - people have estimated that had the Baylor merger gone through, we would have moved up 5-10 spots. If so, that just says the ranking system is stupid. Why does it matter to an undergrad if Rice has a med school? Maybe for a small subset of majors, but otherwise seems irrelevant.

This....and the Princeton handbook (which has become today's "bible" for high school students researching colleges) has consistently ranked Rice in the Top 10 in multiple key criteria including "quality of life" and "diversity". Back in the day, when we were ranked in the Top 10-13 by USN&WR (and I was an undergraduate then), we ranked close to dead last in those categories-- especially the food service.

(09-14-2021 09:51 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  One other note on US News specifically - people have estimated that had the Baylor merger gone through, we would have moved up 5-10 spots. If so, that just says the ranking system is stupid. Why does it matter to an undergrad if Rice has a med school? Maybe for a small subset of majors, but otherwise seems irrelevant.

The rankings all depend heavily on research and graduate programs. It does seem strange that two things unrelated to undergraduate teaching carry so much weight. But reverse engineer any of the ranking systems, and they do.

I'd recommend two episodes of Malcom Gladwell's Revisionist History from this most recent season. One episode dives into the US News rankings and the other is a thought exercise on how to increase Dillard University (an HBCU in New Orleans) through actions completely unrelated to academics.

The biggest eye opener to me was how important the "Peer Assessment Survey" was, and how seemingly disconnected from reality (and academics) that could be.

Forbes recently released a new ranking that put Berkley at the top of the list. What was most interesting to me about their ranking, was that Forbes said they were going to value how well colleges made sure to educate a broad swath of America. So instead of focusing on acceptance rates (where colleges/universities are rewarded for keeping their doors closed), they looked at how well the universities accepted students from a broad socio-economic background.

Rice came in at #24 - right behind U Chicago and right before the University of Florida...

(09-14-2021 10:25 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I'd recommend two episodes of Malcom Gladwell's Revisionist History from this most recent season. One episode dives into the US News rankings and the other is a thought exercise on how to increase Dillard University (an HBCU in New Orleans) through actions completely unrelated to academics.

The biggest eye opener to me was how important the "Peer Assessment Survey" was, and how seemingly disconnected from reality (and academics) that could be.

Forbes recently released a new ranking that put Berkley at the top of the list. What was most interesting to me about their ranking, was that Forbes said they were going to value how well colleges made sure to educate a broad swath of America. So instead of focusing on acceptance rates (where colleges/universities are rewarded for keeping their doors closed), they looked at how well the universities accepted students from a broad socio-economic background.

Rice came in at #24 - right behind U Chicago and right before the University of Florida...

I believe one of their metrics was % of undergrads with Pell grants. That doesn't recognize the value (if any) of the Rice Investment. OTOH, as my son and daughter-in-law are Berkeley grads, I'm comfortable with their result.

2022 WSJ Rankings out.. Rice #18.

#1-25:

Harvard
Stanford
MIT
Yale
Duke
Brown
Cal Tech
Princeton
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Cornell
Penn
Dartmouth
UChicago
Vanderbilt
Columbia
Wash U
RICE
USC (west)
Emory
Carnegie Mellon
Amherst
Williams
Michigan
Pomona

Where was Rice ranked several years ago (pre-Leebron)?

who cares?

Does US News even publish a print edition anymore?

anyone know what the lame-duck president is doing these days? Polishing up his legacy?

(09-21-2021 03:42 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  who cares?

Does US News even publish a print edition anymore?

Prospective students care. Alumni care about the value of their degree.

We were 9th in '85. 12th in '02.

historic rankings '85-07

WSJ Rankings are out now. We're 18th.

WSJ

1) Harvard
2) Stanford
3) MIT
4) Yale
5) Duke
6) Brown
7) Cal Tech
8) Princeton
9) Johns Hopkins
10) Northwestern
11) Cornell
12) Penn
13) Dartmouth
14) Chicago
15) Vandy
16) Columbia
17) WashU
18) Rice
19) USC
20) Emory

(09-22-2021 10:19 AM)Hou_Lawyer Wrote:  

(09-21-2021 03:42 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  who cares?

Does US News even publish a print edition anymore?

Prospective students care. Alumni care about the value of their degree.

We were 9th in '85. 12th in '02.

historic rankings '85-07

I've got two daughters in college - one at Purdue and one at Baylor. They cared about the individual rankings of their intended majors (engineering and fashion - they're quite different). But they could care less about the overall ranking of the school.

(09-22-2021 10:19 AM)Hou_Lawyer Wrote:  

(09-21-2021 03:42 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  who cares?

Does US News even publish a print edition anymore?

Prospective students care. Alumni care about the value of their degree.

We were 9th in '85. 12th in '02.

historic rankings '85-07

Agree. It's important. That's discouraging that we've fallen from 9th to 18th. Not a good trend. I thought Rice would be in the top 10 for sure.

(09-22-2021 03:28 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(09-22-2021 10:19 AM)Hou_Lawyer Wrote:  

(09-21-2021 03:42 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  who cares?

Does US News even publish a print edition anymore?

Prospective students care. Alumni care about the value of their degree.

We were 9th in '85. 12th in '02.

historic rankings '85-07

I've got two daughters in college - one at Purdue and one at Baylor. They cared about the individual rankings of their intended majors (engineering and fashion - they're quite different). But they could care less about the overall ranking of the school.

This is the right attitude for anybody trying to apply their degree directly. To make an example, if you're going to be an economics major to continue on as a journalist, you care about the school ranking. If you're going to be an economics major to go get a PhD, you care about where the department ranks overall or in a specific subfield.