I've been loosely following this NIL rollout, and assuming it catastrophic. But perhaps it presents a very slim chance for a major opportunity.
My eyes were opened by a news report of Gary Patterson's recent speech/plea to monied TCU alumni and donors. Sorry I don't have a link to it, but the short version is this: "Set up a system to funnel cash directly to our players now or we'll be irrelevant within a couple of years." At least within the P5, ALL recruits now are asking up front what they'll get, and schools are actively poaching players away with $$ offers. Patterson claimed (in this context) that they could lose "25-30 players" to other schools if TCU didn't also step up with payment planning (paying for exclusive interviews, etc.).
I originally thought NIL would mean that a few superstars could get rich while in college (Nike ad contract). Now I realize that it's just going to provide cover for old-fashioned, SMU-style buying of players.
Rice will not and should not participate in this. The big question that we need to be actively pursuing right now is just how many like-minded Div. 1 programs are there still left?
When Div. 1 college football quickly now moves entirely to unabashed, mercenary professionalism, will there be any P5 programs that might beg off? Perhaps not, but we should be leading and advertising this idea at least --- of an "NCAA renewal league" or "western/midwestern Ivy League", or of course the fabled "Magnolia League" etc.
Some universities that might not be ready to act, but that would possibly at least listen to this now might include: Cal, Stanford, UW, Colo, much of the MWC, Mich, Purdue, NW, Illinois, KU, Wake, Duke, UNC, Virginia, Ga Tech, BC, ND, Pitt, Syracuse, Temple, UConn, Tulane, Tulsa, Vandy...

I'd be happy with that, but I don't know what legal grounds it would have to stand on. How are you going to create an organization that stops players from selling NIL in a way that adequately differs from what the NCAA was doing? If the multi-school organization can't actually enforce a ban, what's the point of reorganizing when the first school dissatisfied with their athletic performance starts letting players sell NIL? On top of this, a number of states passed laws that prohibit their schools from banning player NIL sales. That's why all this finally came to head over the summer: there was too much resistance from too many directions. What's left of D-I if the NCAA or a replacement organization is unable to operate in 25 states, from the Pacific Coast through the Deep South?

Of the schools in you list, Washington, North Carolina, Temple, Kansas, Wake, Duke, Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse, and Temple are the only schools which are not yet restricted by state law, and of them only Notre Dame is in a state with no bill in some level of legislative consideration. I'm not going to dive into the specifics of each state's laws to see if they only apply to public institutions or if they govern every school, but I think this cat is out of the bag. Short of public opinion swinging strongly in favor of the sanctity of the Ivory Tower, we either play the NIL game or get left farther behind.

https://businessofcollegesports.com/trac...-by-state/

The challenge is this....

There is a TON of money in college sports. The players are (according to the courts) entitled to some of that if their specific name or likeness is part of what is being 'sold'. Yes, I agree, it is (or very easily could be) just the old-fashioned 'buying' of players.... which is only a crime to the NCAA.

ANd there is the rub.

The NCAA can no longer really enforce that... UNLESS they say that you are entitled to one or the other... either money OR a scholarship, but not both (beyond the previous 'full cost'). If UT wants to buy players, they can... and play in that league. I think the states should charge out-of-state tuition though, since the state is subsidizing that education already, and now the guy is getting paid by a 3rd party for being part of that team?? Or heck, let that be an incentive for a Texas kid to play in Texas. If his NIL is worth 50k, that goes a lot further with 10k in 'in state' tuition vs 40k at Alabama.

At least that would set the bar at something like $30-50k per player per year... and lots of players, even at the big schools won't get that.

That or do similar, and make the p5 the 'wild west'. Run by ESPN et al. Buy all the players you want. and let g5 give scholarships... run by the NCAA.

Having the NCAA oversee players getting scholarships AND getting paid is just a joke. They don't remotely have the manpower, authority or anything else to police that.

College football is dead, to be replaced by minor league football.

(09-20-2021 02:43 PM)Barney Wrote:  I've been loosely following this NIL rollout, and assuming it catastrophic. But perhaps it presents a very slim chance for a major opportunity.
My eyes were opened by a news report of Gary Patterson's recent speech/plea to monied TCU alumni and donors. Sorry I don't have a link to it, but the short version is this: "Set up a system to funnel cash directly to our players now or we'll be irrelevant within a couple of years." At least within the P5, ALL recruits now are asking up front what they'll get, and schools are actively poaching players away with $$ offers. Patterson claimed (in this context) that they could lose "25-30 players" to other schools if TCU didn't also step up with payment planning (paying for exclusive interviews, etc.).

The Moncrief family alone can handle 15-20 players. The TCU alumni base is full of monied families. Lots of rich families send their not so smart sons there to get a business degree, and lots of other families send their girls to marry the rich sons.

(09-20-2021 02:43 PM)Barney Wrote:  I've been loosely following this NIL rollout, and assuming it catastrophic. But perhaps it presents a very slim chance for a major opportunity.
My eyes were opened by a news report of Gary Patterson's recent speech/plea to monied TCU alumni and donors. Sorry I don't have a link to it, but the short version is this: "Set up a system to funnel cash directly to our players now or we'll be irrelevant within a couple of years." At least within the P5, ALL recruits now are asking up front what they'll get, and schools are actively poaching players away with $$ offers. Patterson claimed (in this context) that they could lose "25-30 players" to other schools if TCU didn't also step up with payment planning (paying for exclusive interviews, etc.).

Is the even shorter version:

"We've been asking you for years to open you wallets in support of TCU football. Thank you for your support. Now we need you to pay even more money ASAP to keep our recruits and players from bolting to other schools that are offering to pay them more."

(09-20-2021 05:57 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(09-20-2021 02:43 PM)Barney Wrote:  I've been loosely following this NIL rollout, and assuming it catastrophic. But perhaps it presents a very slim chance for a major opportunity.
My eyes were opened by a news report of Gary Patterson's recent speech/plea to monied TCU alumni and donors. Sorry I don't have a link to it, but the short version is this: "Set up a system to funnel cash directly to our players now or we'll be irrelevant within a couple of years." At least within the P5, ALL recruits now are asking up front what they'll get, and schools are actively poaching players away with $$ offers. Patterson claimed (in this context) that they could lose "25-30 players" to other schools if TCU didn't also step up with payment planning (paying for exclusive interviews, etc.).

Is the even shorter version:
"We've been asking you for years to open you wallets in support of TCU football. Thank you for your support. Now we need you to pay even more money ASAP to keep our recruits and players from bolting to other schools that are offering to pay them more."

TCU has benefitted from a lot of open wallets in the last couple of decades. For decades it has been a destination school for the sons and daughters of wealthy ranchers spreading west from Fort Worth. Then the Barnett Shale turned out to be underneath all those ranches. The results have been massive contributions both to athletics and academics. TCU has climbed about as far academically as they have athletically. Whether that can continue in the NIL era is an unknown issue.

as said in another thread, this just makes it legal for boosters to give payouts to recruits. it makes the payouts to Dickerson and James look like chickenfeed.

(09-20-2021 06:26 PM)HawaiiOwl Wrote:  as said in another thread, this just makes it legal for boosters to give payouts to recruits. it makes the payouts to Dickerson and James look like chickenfeed.

This is spot on.

(09-20-2021 04:47 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  The challenge is this....

There is a TON of money in college sports. The players are (according to the courts) entitled to some of that if their specific name or likeness is part of what is being 'sold'. Yes, I agree, it is (or very easily could be) just the old-fashioned 'buying' of players.... which is only a crime to the NCAA.

ANd there is the rub.

The NCAA can no longer really enforce that... UNLESS they say that you are entitled to one or the other... either money OR a scholarship, but not both (beyond the previous 'full cost'). If UT wants to buy players, they can... and play in that league. I think the states should charge out-of-state tuition though, since the state is subsidizing that education already, and now the guy is getting paid by a 3rd party for being part of that team?? Or heck, let that be an incentive for a Texas kid to play in Texas. If his NIL is worth 50k, that goes a lot further with 10k in 'in state' tuition vs 40k at Alabama.

At least that would set the bar at something like $30-50k per player per year... and lots of players, even at the big schools won't get that.

That or do similar, and make the p5 the 'wild west'. Run by ESPN et al. Buy all the players you want. and let g5 give scholarships... run by the NCAA.

Having the NCAA oversee players getting scholarships AND getting paid is just a joke. They don't remotely have the manpower, authority or anything else to police that.

emphasis added

Hambone,

You keep saying this, but I'm pretty sure this cannot fly anymore. The Supreme Court said that the NCAA cannot limit the earnings of the athletes, as they were previously doing. So they're not going to be able to create a rule that says you take can take a scholarship or NIL/outside money, but not both. That's essentially what got them slapped down 9-0.

Kavanaugh mentioned in a concurring opinion that collective bargaining of benefits is one way to make sure that all athletes get their share. That's a much more likely place where some limitations may be put on things (where the collective bargaining could be done at either the institution level or the conference level).

But I don't see any school voluntarily disarming itself in the recruiting marketplace by not offering a scholarship because the athlete could collect outside NIL money. Only a school or conference (like the Ivies) could choose that path, not the NCAA at this point. And I'm not sure anyone else (besides the Ivies that have already done so) will go that path.

I think there's going to be a few stages of NIL:

1) Initial Stage: schools try to buy players via NIL money being handed out left and right to any FBS player or any highly-touted recruit.

2) Capital Incineration: many companies lose a not insignificant amount of money due to deals being offered to players that don't pan out (e.g. Quinn Ewers signing deals with a kombucha company, autograph vendors and an Ohio car dealership, when there is certainly a non-zero chance that he flames out at Ohio State. Not ragging on Ewers, just a high-profile example of a good amount of companies betting $1mm+ that a kid is going to be the next Heisman cash cow).

3) Capital Pullback: companies start to shy away from high-schoolers and also only throw big dollars at college players that have already proved themselves in competition.

The next iteration of this is Big State going after University of Big State either openly or clandestinely for players not paying their taxes.

(09-21-2021 08:10 AM)mebehutchi Wrote:  The next iteration of this is Big State going after University of Big State either openly or clandestinely for players not paying their taxes.

In anticipation, the Big States will no doubt augment their existing academic advising and compliance staffs with CPAs to try to keep their stars out of tax trouble. I can imagine firms vying to be the "official accounting partner of Big State Athletics".

(09-20-2021 07:44 PM)gsloth Wrote:  

(09-20-2021 04:47 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  The challenge is this....

There is a TON of money in college sports. The players are (according to the courts) entitled to some of that if their specific name or likeness is part of what is being 'sold'. Yes, I agree, it is (or very easily could be) just the old-fashioned 'buying' of players.... which is only a crime to the NCAA.

ANd there is the rub.

The NCAA can no longer really enforce that... UNLESS they say that you are entitled to one or the other... either money OR a scholarship, but not both (beyond the previous 'full cost'). If UT wants to buy players, they can... and play in that league. I think the states should charge out-of-state tuition though, since the state is subsidizing that education already, and now the guy is getting paid by a 3rd party for being part of that team?? Or heck, let that be an incentive for a Texas kid to play in Texas. If his NIL is worth 50k, that goes a lot further with 10k in 'in state' tuition vs 40k at Alabama.

At least that would set the bar at something like $30-50k per player per year... and lots of players, even at the big schools won't get that.

That or do similar, and make the p5 the 'wild west'. Run by ESPN et al. Buy all the players you want. and let g5 give scholarships... run by the NCAA.

Having the NCAA oversee players getting scholarships AND getting paid is just a joke. They don't remotely have the manpower, authority or anything else to police that.

emphasis added

Hambone,

You keep saying this, but I'm pretty sure this cannot fly anymore. The Supreme Court said that the NCAA cannot limit the earnings of the athletes, as they were previously doing. So they're not going to be able to create a rule that says you take can take a scholarship or NIL/outside money, but not both. That's essentially what got them slapped down 9-0.

Kavanaugh mentioned in a concurring opinion that collective bargaining of benefits is one way to make sure that all athletes get their share. That's a much more likely place where some limitations may be put on things (where the collective bargaining could be done at either the institution level or the conference level).

But I don't see any school voluntarily disarming itself in the recruiting marketplace by not offering a scholarship because the athlete could collect outside NIL money. Only a school or conference (like the Ivies) could choose that path, not the NCAA at this point. And I'm not sure anyone else (besides the Ivies that have already done so) will go that path.

Then what is the purpose of the NCAA at this point? They literally serve no purpose anymore.

I am suggesting that the 'collective bargain' is that some schools still in the NCAA will set the value of the NIL of athletes at the cost of a scholarship... and that schools like RIce will 'eat' the difference between what their collective NILs are worth and what it costs to attend... like we already do... but that if 'Joe 5 Star' can get paid 100k/yr for his NIL, that the NCAA can't stop him from taking it.... but that would be an 'individual' bargain... more like having ESPN be their agent... and not a collective bargain.

(09-21-2021 02:03 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Then what is the purpose of the NCAA at this point? They literally serve no purpose anymore.

Well, they do administer the championships in every sport except DI football -- including collecting and divvying up the TV revenue.

(09-21-2021 02:27 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(09-21-2021 02:03 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Then what is the purpose of the NCAA at this point? They literally serve no purpose anymore.

Well, they do administer the championships in every sport except DI football -- including collecting and divvying up the TV revenue.

They also write the rule books and administer the student-athlete transfer portal. They lost their big tool that generated the most controversy over how they implemented it and the impact it had. Public opinion of the NCAA itself may actually improve because they're not going to be catching any flack for stopping player compensation.

(09-21-2021 10:11 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(09-21-2021 08:10 AM)mebehutchi Wrote:  The next iteration of this is Big State going after University of Big State either openly or clandestinely for players not paying their taxes.

In anticipation, the Big States will no doubt augment their existing academic advising and compliance staffs with CPAs to try to keep their stars out of tax trouble. I can imagine firms vying to be the "official accounting partner of Big State Athletics".

All of the things being spoken about regarding what is left for the NCAA can now be done by 5 guys around a poker table on a Friday night.

(09-22-2021 08:59 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  All of the things being spoken about regarding what is left for the NCAA can now be done by 5 guys around a poker table on a Friday night.

Not if they are paying attention to their poker.

https://t.co/vp3AXALwe4

Big BYU NIL deal for female athletes.