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It's getting desperate at UConn
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shizzle787 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-13-2021 06:16 AM)ken d Wrote:  At some point, UConn has to ask itself this core question: Why do we play football?

Traditionally, universities have considered football to be an important way to keep alumni connected emotionally to their alma mater so that they will be a continuing source of donations and bequests that sustain their educational mission. It's what Homecoming is all about.

If a university's football program is accomplishing that purpose, and is in the long run producing more donations than the school would receive without it, then the next question is does the program cost less to sustain it than the revenue it produces.

Clearly, a lot of schools believe having a football team is worth whatever it costs to run it. Some who, in the past, had decided it was not worth the cost and dropped their programs have since reversed their decision and resumed the sport. Some actual experience without football must have led them to that decision. Ego alone probably wouldn't have done that.

So what are the answers for UConn? Is having a lousy program better than no program at all? If the answer is no, is there some investment the school might make that would make them a consistently better program? As an alternative, could basketball fill the role with alumni that football does for other schools?

Whatever the answers are, one thing is certain. Whatever they are doing now doesn't seem to be working well for them. Whatever value "reputation" has for a university is not now being enhanced by playing football as an FBS independent. Something has to give.

UConn’s problem is simple: they need to step up and pay for coaches. We have a TV contract with CBS Sports. We play 4 P5 teams a year (I have a feeling that number is going to increase starting in 2026). We have had success before. We are not dropping to the MAC, FCS, or any non-P4 league. The fans don’t want to play other G5 schools.
09-13-2021 07:10 AM
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Post: #62
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-12-2021 11:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 09:41 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 07:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 06:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UConn is not dropping to FCS.

They built that 40k stadium in Hartford. They have to try to make use of it.

There's no reason they can't be a moderately successful program. They have a state to themselves. Biggest problem has been coaches and a conference that fits.

UConn didn't build the stadium, the state of Connecticut did and the state still owns it. It'll find another tenant if needed. I honestly think UConn would be better off shuttering the football team and saving their money.

What other tenant? They built it specifically for UConn.

It has hosted concerts, lacrosse, soccer, rugby, and even some hockey. The state of Connecticut can work on finding ways to use the stadium 5 or 6 times a year in lieu of UConn home football games.
09-13-2021 07:14 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #63
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-12-2021 07:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 06:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UConn is not dropping to FCS.

They built that 40k stadium in Hartford. They have to try to make use of it.

There's no reason they can't be a moderately successful program. They have a state to themselves. Biggest problem has been coaches and a conference that fits.

I agree. UConn has fixable problems. They can waste tens of millions on FBS just as easily as the typical G5 can.
09-13-2021 07:29 AM
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Post: #64
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-13-2021 07:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 07:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 06:31 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  UConn is not dropping to FCS.

They built that 40k stadium in Hartford. They have to try to make use of it.

There's no reason they can't be a moderately successful program. They have a state to themselves. Biggest problem has been coaches and a conference that fits.

I agree. UConn has fixable problems. They can waste tens of millions on FBS just as easily as the typical G5 can.

USF is G5. Do you recommend USF drop football and stop wasting millions of dollars? Asking for a friend.
09-13-2021 07:35 AM
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Post: #65
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-13-2021 03:27 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  The MAC hasn't played revolving membership games for a few years now, and as a result (IMO) is the most stable of the G5 conferences.

Stability is nice, but there is a fine line between stable and stuck in the mud.

I thought the additions of Temple and Massachusetts were both worth a try. It was (and is) worth trying to carefully grow our footprint and the value of our television contract. These additions didn't stick, but this doesn't change the fact that the MAC is a fundamentally stable conference rooted in Middle America.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2021 10:54 AM by Schadenfreude.)
09-13-2021 07:40 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #66
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-13-2021 07:40 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(09-13-2021 03:27 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  The MAC hasn't played revolving membership games for a few years now, and as a result (IMO) is the most stable of the G5 conferences.

Stability is nice, but there is a fine line between stable and stuck in the mud.

I thought the addition of Temple and Massachusetts were both worth a try. It was (and is) worth trying to carefully grow our footprint and the value of our television contract. These additions didn't stick, but this doesn't change the fact that the MAC is a fundamentally stable conference rooted in Middle America.

More than any other FBS conference, the MAC is the most stable, logical conference, and they know and embrace who and what they are. As my mother in law often said: bloom where you are planted. That's the MAC.
09-13-2021 07:47 AM
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esayem Online
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Post: #67
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
I think forcing their coach out early is a sign things are changing.
09-13-2021 07:49 AM
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Post: #68
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-13-2021 07:49 AM)esayem Wrote:  I think forcing their coach out early is a sign things are changing.

There was no buyout. My guess is the AD figured there is nothing to lose or gain at this point with him being here. Randy Edsall was not going to win a game this year, and neither will the interim coach. Who they hire will give us the sign as to whether things will change.
09-13-2021 08:13 AM
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BruceMcF Online
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Post: #69
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-13-2021 03:27 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  The thread is entitled "It's getting desperate at UConn." So of course the posts turned to proposing all kinds of solutions to UConn's problem.

When the subject of the MAC was brought up, the theme seemed to be get football in and use some bball games to grease the deal. How many was the mathematical gymnastics to make it work (i.e., sound good to the MAC, not UConn). Offer enough and UConn's (and UMass's) problem is solved.

Just noting that the last time a similar opportunity arose. Many MAC sports fans might think the whole thing was a mistake, but that sentiment is not the same as evidence that MAC Presidents have the same idea. Objectively, the primary problem was that it took too long for UMass to transition and the ACC moved rapidly enough that a return to the raided Big East opened up for Temple.

And those problems are avoided if the pair join at the same time.

Quote: I simply took the opposite tack, not an assault on your post.

Though noting your idea of not assaulting my post seemed to be to refer to the whole idea of the MAC trying to accomplish what it tried and failed to accomplish previously as b******t.

Quote: The MAC hasn't played revolving membership games for a few years now, and as a result (IMO) is the most stable of the G5 conferences. That may be an asset now, at least temporarily. If it wants/needs/can expand its footprint, it can try to make the moves. It can also wait for the current dust to settle, while the other conferences tumble around the Bingo numbers barrel. It does not need to be a catch basin for UConn or anyone else. Been there, done that.

And the MAC was still the most stable of the Go5 conferences during the Temple/UMass period. Since the mistake of accepting footloose Marshall again, none of the other moves in the 21st century has caused the slightest wobble for the MAC core membership.

Quote: Why the MAC? Because it did it before? Not much of a reason, IMO. But that is simply my opinion. None of us will make the decisions.

For all the same reasons as before. For the schools that were looking for the Eastern exposure, they are still looking. For the Western division schools aiming to get an annual FB game in NE Ohio, they would still get it. For the schools looking to play more often on Saturdays in November, when four games weekly are required for #MACtion, by expanding the weekly inventory from 5/6 to 6/7, they get it. For the more basketball oriented schools, regular games against A10 schools seemed to be, previously, the sweetener that sealed the deal.

Quote: BTW, I'm fairly sure the MAC is the only G5 that did not join the crowd with a formal statement on all the conference moves. Head down, eyes forward.

They are the conference that has the least need to worry about the aftershocks of the OK/TX move, so public brave words to comfort shaky member institution administrations re not really necessary. Only the kind of commentators who happily run with unfounded speculation as the basis for imagining realignment excitement, like KittKat, would be imagining that the MAC is likely to be involved in those aftershocks.

Quote: (BTW #2: I haven't checked all 12 MAC schools' future FB schedules, but NIU already has a home-and-home with UMass in 2024 and 2026).

At least it's not UConn.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2021 08:59 AM by BruceMcF.)
09-13-2021 08:58 AM
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Post: #70
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-13-2021 06:55 AM)schmolik Wrote:  First year in the Big East they made the NCAA Men's Tournament for the first time in five years. Looks like their hoops has already made a positive move and now they can recruit as a Big East member as opposed to an AAC member.

They also just brought in a top-10 recruiting class and are generally on the fringe/others getting mentioned section of preseason top-25 lists. Ticket sales are way up. Things are very much trending in the right direction on that end, which is why my response to hand-wringing about how desperate things must be at UConn is to ask "desperate how?". Football's functionally been placed in quarantine, so the university isn't living and dying on where that program's at anymore.

(09-13-2021 06:55 AM)schmolik Wrote:  If UConn gets back to winning national championships, at least the ACC has to listen.

If UConn gets back to winning national championships, it doesn't matter who's calling, because winning is the entire point (unless you're the type of fan that roots primarily for spreadsheets). Churn out a few titles and I have no problem making a "don't mess with success" argument.
09-13-2021 09:31 AM
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Post: #71
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-13-2021 07:10 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  
(09-13-2021 06:16 AM)ken d Wrote:  At some point, UConn has to ask itself this core question: Why do we play football?

Traditionally, universities have considered football to be an important way to keep alumni connected emotionally to their alma mater so that they will be a continuing source of donations and bequests that sustain their educational mission. It's what Homecoming is all about.

If a university's football program is accomplishing that purpose, and is in the long run producing more donations than the school would receive without it, then the next question is does the program cost less to sustain it than the revenue it produces.

Clearly, a lot of schools believe having a football team is worth whatever it costs to run it. Some who, in the past, had decided it was not worth the cost and dropped their programs have since reversed their decision and resumed the sport. Some actual experience without football must have led them to that decision. Ego alone probably wouldn't have done that.

So what are the answers for UConn? Is having a lousy program better than no program at all? If the answer is no, is there some investment the school might make that would make them a consistently better program? As an alternative, could basketball fill the role with alumni that football does for other schools?

Whatever the answers are, one thing is certain. Whatever they are doing now doesn't seem to be working well for them. Whatever value "reputation" has for a university is not now being enhanced by playing football as an FBS independent. Something has to give.

UConn’s problem is simple: they need to step up and pay for coaches. We have a TV contract with CBS Sports. We play 4 P5 teams a year (I have a feeling that number is going to increase starting in 2026). We have had success before. We are not dropping to the MAC, FCS, or any non-P4 league. The fans don’t want to play other G5 schools.

Enjoy 0-12 or 1-11 year in and year out.
09-13-2021 10:45 AM
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Post: #72
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-13-2021 07:10 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  We are not dropping to the MAC

This wouldn't be dropping.
09-13-2021 10:59 AM
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Post: #73
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-13-2021 06:55 AM)schmolik Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 11:24 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 09:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  UConn sacrificed their football for hoops, and their hoops still not as good in the Big East either. They should have waited until this year to stay in the AAC.

UConn was not getting in the Big 12. They had a better shot when they were still in the original Big East.

First year in the Big East they made the NCAA Men's Tournament for the first time in five years. Looks like their hoops has already made a positive move and now they can recruit as a Big East member as opposed to an AAC member.

As for the Big 12, unfortunately they are too much of a geographical outlier (as they were in the AAC). The football conferences that they would fit in (ACC, Big 10) don't want them. The MAC would be decent for a football but not men's/women's basketball. If UConn could do a partial for football they'd take it but I get why the MAC wouldn't want to do it. My hope for UConn would be to build their men's basketball back up to regular NCAA level that one day the ACC comes calling (maybe the football schools that blocked UConn last time (cough, Clemson) leave for the SEC). Did the move out of the AAC hurt UConn football? Probably. But UConn had zero value being an NIT level men's basketball team in the AAC and having no one want to play for a team that had to travel to SMU and Tulsa every year (and can you imagine being in the AAC once Cincinnati leaves?) If UConn gets back to winning national championships, at least the ACC has to listen. Of course, UConn would settle for a women's national championship. They haven't won since 2016, that's an eternity for them. And I think Connecticut has to at least keep FBS football just in case the ACC gets raided and has to backfill one day, they'll have an edge over Villanova (assuming the ACC doesn't want non FBS members).

Exactly.

I know people want to pile onto UConn and just say that terrible FBS teams should drop to FCS, but it has never made sense to me why an FBS school would ever willingly drop to FCS. If they're going to play football at all, then might as well do it at the FBS level. That way, they're at least holding a lottery ticket in the event the ACC ever wants to add any other schools again. It might be the case that the lottery ticket has very low odds, but they've already spent the money to buy that ticket.

If UConn were to drop football entirely, then that's a different proposition. However, if you're making the decision to play football in the first place, then FCS isn't some type of grand money-saver compared to FBS when balanced against the TV contract that they have with CBS and the wider range of guarantee games that are possible.
09-13-2021 11:07 AM
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pvk75 Offline
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Post: #74
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
IMO, the MAC is being smart waiting for the dust to settle from all this realignment. It is not necessary nor wise for the MAC to consider UConn's football problem, especially with so much else unsettled.

What if the dust settles and Buffalo (as has been mentioned) moves somewhere else, e.g.? Replacing UB with an all-sport member would be the MAC's biggest concern.

I ask again ... why should the MAC consider UConn as a football-only member? So it can get a few bball games? UConn did exactly what it wanted to do -- found a Big East home for bball and left football as an after-thought. They were in the AAC and chose to leave it.

My last post on this thread. I'm not trying to sell anything, least of all some ethereal status as an expert. Just posting my opinions. Been a loyal follower of CFB across the country since the mid-1960s but fairly new to this fan board stuff, and for an old guy the back-and-forth gets tiring. Have at it. I said my piece.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2021 04:50 PM by pvk75.)
09-13-2021 04:29 PM
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Post: #75
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-13-2021 03:27 AM)pvk75 Wrote:  The thread is entitled "It's getting desperate at UConn." So of course the posts turned to proposing all kinds of solutions to UConn's problem.

When the subject of the MAC was brought up, the theme seemed to be get football in and use some bball games to grease the deal. How many was the mathematical gymnastics to make it work (i.e., sound good to the MAC, not UConn). Offer enough and UConn's (and UMass's) problem is solved.

I simply took the opposite tack, not an assault on your post. The MAC hasn't played revolving membership games for a few years now, and as a result (IMO) is the most stable of the G5 conferences. That may be an asset now, at least temporarily. If it wants/needs/can expand its footprint, it can try to make the moves. It can also wait for the current dust to settle, while the other conferences tumble around the Bingo numbers barrel. It does not need to be a catch basin for UConn or anyone else. Been there, done that.

Why the MAC? Because it did it before? Not much of a reason, IMO. But that is simply my opinion. None of us will make the decisions.

BTW, I'm fairly sure the MAC is the only G5 that did not join the crowd with a formal statement on all the conference moves. Head down, eyes forward.

(BTW #2: I haven't checked all 12 MAC schools' future FB schedules, but NIU already has a home-and-home with UMass in 2024 and 2026).

Toledo has a home-and-home with UMASS in 2021 and 2022..
The Rockets played the Minutemen in Gillette Stadium several years back and they came to the Glass Bowl the next year...
09-14-2021 06:49 AM
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Post: #76
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-13-2021 11:07 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-13-2021 06:55 AM)schmolik Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 11:24 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 09:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  UConn sacrificed their football for hoops, and their hoops still not as good in the Big East either. They should have waited until this year to stay in the AAC.

UConn was not getting in the Big 12. They had a better shot when they were still in the original Big East.

First year in the Big East they made the NCAA Men's Tournament for the first time in five years. Looks like their hoops has already made a positive move and now they can recruit as a Big East member as opposed to an AAC member.

As for the Big 12, unfortunately they are too much of a geographical outlier (as they were in the AAC). The football conferences that they would fit in (ACC, Big 10) don't want them. The MAC would be decent for a football but not men's/women's basketball. If UConn could do a partial for football they'd take it but I get why the MAC wouldn't want to do it. My hope for UConn would be to build their men's basketball back up to regular NCAA level that one day the ACC comes calling (maybe the football schools that blocked UConn last time (cough, Clemson) leave for the SEC). Did the move out of the AAC hurt UConn football? Probably. But UConn had zero value being an NIT level men's basketball team in the AAC and having no one want to play for a team that had to travel to SMU and Tulsa every year (and can you imagine being in the AAC once Cincinnati leaves?) If UConn gets back to winning national championships, at least the ACC has to listen. Of course, UConn would settle for a women's national championship. They haven't won since 2016, that's an eternity for them. And I think Connecticut has to at least keep FBS football just in case the ACC gets raided and has to backfill one day, they'll have an edge over Villanova (assuming the ACC doesn't want non FBS members).

Exactly.

I know people want to pile onto UConn and just say that terrible FBS teams should drop to FCS, but it has never made sense to me why an FBS school would ever willingly drop to FCS. If they're going to play football at all, then might as well do it at the FBS level. That way, they're at least holding a lottery ticket in the event the ACC ever wants to add any other schools again. It might be the case that the lottery ticket has very low odds, but they've already spent the money to buy that ticket.

If UConn were to drop football entirely, then that's a different proposition. However, if you're making the decision to play football in the first place, then FCS isn't some type of grand money-saver compared to FBS when balanced against the TV contract that they have with CBS and the wider range of guarantee games that are possible.

The ACC would really have to be scraping the bottom of the barrel.
09-14-2021 07:11 AM
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Post: #77
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-11-2021 05:27 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  Look every reasonable/knowledgeable fan knew that the move to the BE was going to result in the football program going back to FCS. UConn did what it had to do to save its hoops. Not what I would've wanted from my Alma but I can understand the thinking given how bad their football is/has been.

Makes sense and I understand the pressure the BB fans put on the administration however this is the exact opposite of what every other college/university with a football team would do.

However they made their bed and should go back to FCS or simply drop FB completely.
09-14-2021 07:18 AM
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BruceMcF Online
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Post: #78
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-13-2021 04:29 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  What if the dust settles and Buffalo (as has been mentioned) moves somewhere else, e.g.? Replacing UB with an all-sport member would be the MAC's biggest concern.

That's about timing, not about whether the MAC Presidents would be interested in accepting UConn if UConn was willing to pay a high enough price.

Quote:I ask again ... why should the MAC consider UConn as a football-only member? So it can get a few bball games? UConn did exactly what it wanted to do -- found a Big East home for bball and left football as an after-thought. They were in the AAC and chose to leave it.

RIF: Reading Is Fundamental. I stepped through reasons why different MAC Presidents might consider it ... none of them involved any charity to UConn, so the decisions UConn made that allowed their MBB to escape the coming drop in status of the AAC but left their FB team with few realistic goals to recruit and play for have zero to do with the decisions of the MAC Presidents.

One of them did indeed involve getting some better OOC home games for MAC MBB teams, which is not an easy thing to accomplish. The MAC need to make a step up to reach the point of regular at-large NIT bids. This is one of a small handful of ways that the conference can help with the schools that are aiming higher in MBB. But it was obviously only one of four (& there may be more) plusses that MAC Presidents might consider.
09-14-2021 07:25 AM
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Post: #79
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-14-2021 07:18 AM)Rob3338 Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 05:27 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  Look every reasonable/knowledgeable fan knew that the move to the BE was going to result in the football program going back to FCS. UConn did what it had to do to save its hoops. Not what I would've wanted from my Alma but I can understand the thinking given how bad their football is/has been.

Makes sense and I understand the pressure the BB fans put on the administration however this is the exact opposite of what every other college/university with a football team would do.

However they made their bed and should go back to FCS or simply drop FB completely.

The funny thing is there were people on this message board (who oddly enough are not even UConn alums) who were predicting UCONN was going to become an eastern Indy powerhouse in FB (as they would tell you, because they are a state flagship, a good academic school and a strong brand through hoops). They obviously weren't watching as closely as the rest of us who have seen the issues with that product, both in terms of on and off the field.
09-14-2021 07:37 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #80
RE: It's getting desperate at UConn
(09-14-2021 07:37 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 07:18 AM)Rob3338 Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 05:27 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  Look every reasonable/knowledgeable fan knew that the move to the BE was going to result in the football program going back to FCS. UConn did what it had to do to save its hoops. Not what I would've wanted from my Alma but I can understand the thinking given how bad their football is/has been.

Makes sense and I understand the pressure the BB fans put on the administration however this is the exact opposite of what every other college/university with a football team would do.

However they made their bed and should go back to FCS or simply drop FB completely.

The funny thing is there were people on this message board (who oddly enough are not even UConn alums) who were predicting UCONN was going to become an eastern Indy powerhouse in FB (as they would tell you, because they are a state flagship, a good academic school and a strong brand through hoops). They obviously weren't watching as closely as the rest of us who have seen the issues with that product, both in terms of on and off the field.

Given that this is the first month of games played after leaving the American, and how the stint in the American went, I'm not sure that conference does anything to insulate UConn from being bad. If the football team's going to be bad in the American or bad in a BE+indy arrangement, better for it to be bad as an independent and not take the rest of the AD with it.
09-14-2021 07:50 AM
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