(09-12-2021 03:31 PM)NJMark Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 03:12 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 02:01 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(09-11-2021 04:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-11-2021 04:01 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  Wow! Just WOW. Sadly it's all true. I appreciate USF as a conference mate but I have to say that I've also wondered how a program that was gifted a golden ticket and did nothing with it was always considered a good candidate for expansion over schools that were actually busting their rumps for years just to even be in the conversation. Not piling on because I appreciate USF but after awhile bad decisions and choices come back to bite you in the sac.

I wish we did more, but glad we don't do as much as UCF - or Memphis. We have our priorities straight.

I wouldn't USF to be publicly defined by "athletic striving" the way some schools are.

Priorities straight??? How?? In terms of academics, the pecking order in Florida will always be Miami, then UF, then Florida State, then whoever. I don't see South Florida changing that pecking order, which brings me to another point too, about South Florida: they seem to be fine to be characterized as a run-of-the-mill directional school, like Central Michigan, Northern Illinois, Western Kentucky, etc.

UCF used to be that way for awhile until they noticed that it was hurting their branding/image!!!!! They could have done like the University of Louisiana-Lafayette, but they chose a different path, and picked as a desired peer a very prestigious school that is actually directional, although most folks don't think of it that way: the University of Southern California. How does the University of Southern California refer to itself about 90% of the time??? USC .
Taking a page out of the University of Southern California's book, the University of Central Florida began requesting and insisting that tv and radio stations as well as sports magazines to call itself "UCF" rather than "Central Florida.". Meanwhile, South Florida flip flopped between being called South Florida and USF. UCF then began building brand equity into their athletics, while South Florida is like the Greek legend Sisyphus, working very hard on their academics, only have hardly anyone but rival universities notice, and then the rival universities (Miami and UF) upgrade their academics to surpass USF academically yet again, just when South Florida thought they were catching up to them!!!!

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To be extremely clear: the University of Southern California is "directional" in name only.

To be extremely clearer: that is literally the definition of "directional."

True. That is the very literal and specific definition. But in athletics and academics, when we read "Middle" Tennessee State (MTSU is my alma mater), we think of a academically average public university with a large percentage of its students from the state in which it is located.

USC (Southern Cal) is an elite private university with a significant percentage of students from, well, everywhere.

Two different animals. That was my point (though poorly made in the first post).

(09-12-2021 03:14 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 03:12 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 02:01 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(09-11-2021 04:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-11-2021 04:01 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  Wow! Just WOW. Sadly it's all true. I appreciate USF as a conference mate but I have to say that I've also wondered how a program that was gifted a golden ticket and did nothing with it was always considered a good candidate for expansion over schools that were actually busting their rumps for years just to even be in the conversation. Not piling on because I appreciate USF but after awhile bad decisions and choices come back to bite you in the sac.

I wish we did more, but glad we don't do as much as UCF - or Memphis. We have our priorities straight.

I wouldn't USF to be publicly defined by "athletic striving" the way some schools are.

Priorities straight??? How?? In terms of academics, the pecking order in Florida will always be Miami, then UF, then Florida State, then whoever. I don't see South Florida changing that pecking order, which brings me to another point too, about South Florida: they seem to be fine to be characterized as a run-of-the-mill directional school, like Central Michigan, Northern Illinois, Western Kentucky, etc.

UCF used to be that way for awhile until they noticed that it was hurting their branding/image!!!!! They could have done like the University of Louisiana-Lafayette, but they chose a different path, and picked as a desired peer a very prestigious school that is actually directional, although most folks don't think of it that way: the University of Southern California. How does the University of Southern California refer to itself about 90% of the time??? USC .
Taking a page out of the University of Southern California's book, the University of Central Florida began requesting and insisting that tv and radio stations as well as sports magazines to call itself "UCF" rather than "Central Florida.". Meanwhile, South Florida flip flopped between being called South Florida and USF. UCF then began building brand equity into their athletics, while South Florida is like the Greek legend Sisyphus, working very hard on their academics, only have hardly anyone but rival universities notice, and then the rival universities (Miami and UF) upgrade their academics to surpass USF academically yet again, just when South Florida thought they were catching up to them!!!!

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To be extremely clear: the University of Southern California is "directional" in name only.

I still refer to “UCF” as “Central Florida.” I refer to “USC” and “SMU” as “USC” and “SMU.” Mainly because I’ve known them a lot longer by those acronyms.

You will still hear "Memphis State" from some old-timers.

I've long thought Boise State University should change its name to the University of Boise.

I refer to UCF as Central Florida. They're a directional school & shouldn't be able to hide it.

(09-12-2021 05:15 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 03:31 PM)NJMark Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 03:12 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 02:01 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(09-11-2021 04:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I wish we did more, but glad we don't do as much as UCF - or Memphis. We have our priorities straight.

I wouldn't USF to be publicly defined by "athletic striving" the way some schools are.

Priorities straight??? How?? In terms of academics, the pecking order in Florida will always be Miami, then UF, then Florida State, then whoever. I don't see South Florida changing that pecking order, which brings me to another point too, about South Florida: they seem to be fine to be characterized as a run-of-the-mill directional school, like Central Michigan, Northern Illinois, Western Kentucky, etc.

UCF used to be that way for awhile until they noticed that it was hurting their branding/image!!!!! They could have done like the University of Louisiana-Lafayette, but they chose a different path, and picked as a desired peer a very prestigious school that is actually directional, although most folks don't think of it that way: the University of Southern California. How does the University of Southern California refer to itself about 90% of the time??? USC .
Taking a page out of the University of Southern California's book, the University of Central Florida began requesting and insisting that tv and radio stations as well as sports magazines to call itself "UCF" rather than "Central Florida.". Meanwhile, South Florida flip flopped between being called South Florida and USF. UCF then began building brand equity into their athletics, while South Florida is like the Greek legend Sisyphus, working very hard on their academics, only have hardly anyone but rival universities notice, and then the rival universities (Miami and UF) upgrade their academics to surpass USF academically yet again, just when South Florida thought they were catching up to them!!!!

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

To be extremely clear: the University of Southern California is "directional" in name only.

To be extremely clearer: that is literally the definition of "directional."

True. That is the very literal and specific definition. But in athletics and academics, when we read "Middle" Tennessee State (MTSU is my alma mater), we think of a academically average public university with a large percentage of its students from the state in which it is located.

USC (Southern Cal) is an elite private university with a significant percentage of students from, well, everywhere.

Two different animals. That was my point (though poorly made in the first post).

You might also think of USC as a large private university with unusually large tennis and rowing squads populated by poorly qualified non-participants whose very rich parents bribed coaches and administrators.

(09-12-2021 06:43 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I refer to UCF as Central Florida. They're a directional school & shouldn't be able to hide it.

UCF and USF benefit, and likely significantly, from being located in large cities. Most "directional schools," if I'm not mistaken, are not. MTSU is located about 35 miles southeast of Nashville. It's "kind of" Nashville — but not really.

(09-12-2021 07:17 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 05:15 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 03:31 PM)NJMark Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 03:12 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 02:01 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Priorities straight??? How?? In terms of academics, the pecking order in Florida will always be Miami, then UF, then Florida State, then whoever. I don't see South Florida changing that pecking order, which brings me to another point too, about South Florida: they seem to be fine to be characterized as a run-of-the-mill directional school, like Central Michigan, Northern Illinois, Western Kentucky, etc.

UCF used to be that way for awhile until they noticed that it was hurting their branding/image!!!!! They could have done like the University of Louisiana-Lafayette, but they chose a different path, and picked as a desired peer a very prestigious school that is actually directional, although most folks don't think of it that way: the University of Southern California. How does the University of Southern California refer to itself about 90% of the time??? USC .
Taking a page out of the University of Southern California's book, the University of Central Florida began requesting and insisting that tv and radio stations as well as sports magazines to call itself "UCF" rather than "Central Florida.". Meanwhile, South Florida flip flopped between being called South Florida and USF. UCF then began building brand equity into their athletics, while South Florida is like the Greek legend Sisyphus, working very hard on their academics, only have hardly anyone but rival universities notice, and then the rival universities (Miami and UF) upgrade their academics to surpass USF academically yet again, just when South Florida thought they were catching up to them!!!!

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

To be extremely clear: the University of Southern California is "directional" in name only.

To be extremely clearer: that is literally the definition of "directional."

True. That is the very literal and specific definition. But in athletics and academics, when we read "Middle" Tennessee State (MTSU is my alma mater), we think of a academically average public university with a large percentage of its students from the state in which it is located.

USC (Southern Cal) is an elite private university with a significant percentage of students from, well, everywhere.

Two different animals. That was my point (though poorly made in the first post).

You might also think of USC as a large private university with unusually large tennis and rowing squads populated by poorly qualified non-participants whose very rich parents bribed coaches and administrators.

Good point. USC had four coaches who took the bribes. Georgetown, UCLA, Wake Forest, Yale and Stanford each had one.

https://www.insider.com/college-admissio...ged-2019-3

Too long, didn't read. I am guessing this was a pro UCF, anti USF thread. Seen enough, don't need to read more.

Congrats UCF on the invitation to Big 12, and good luck there.

They would be better off making a name change at this point - take the directional out of their name - even University of Tampa is better than USF

(09-12-2021 10:45 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  They would be better off making a name change at this point - take the directional out of their name - even University of Tampa is better than USF

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Tampa

UCF was originally Florida Technological University "FTU". But later changed to UCF. Major mistake. We could have been "Florida Tech". Now another school has taken that name.

That was very long winded, but it does make a good point - emphasizing athletics is important and naturally the school that pushed harder with facilities and coaching salaries for the last 15-20 years is now further along.

It sure didn't help USF getting Willie Taggart as a HC and a downsized Charlie Strong to replace Him. Neither of Whom knew how to run up a score but only tried to hang on to a lead until it was too late. UCF has always had a good string of QB's WR'sand RB's since They came into CUSA. They take Football seriously and it shows

I believe that it's fair to state that UCF's investments over the past 20 years put themselves in a position to reap the benefit of a Big 12 invite today and pass by USF. They did pretty much everything correctly on-the-field and off-the-field to maximize their value.

However, I'd call shenanigans on the last section of Part 2 at least in terms of trying to directly tie USF blocking UCF to the overall downfall of the Big East. Adding or not adding UCF wasn't the difference between the old Big East getting a new ESPN TV deal and/or stopping Syracuse and Pitt from going to the ACC. Nothing short of the Big East adding Notre Dame and Penn State was keeping that football league together once the ACC decided to expand. Those were all due to forces waaaaaay beyond USF blocking UCF from the Big East and much more powerful.

(09-12-2021 08:26 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 06:43 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I refer to UCF as Central Florida. They're a directional school & shouldn't be able to hide it.

UCF and USF benefit, and likely significantly, from being located in large cities. Most "directional schools," if I'm not mistaken, are not. MTSU is located about 35 miles southeast of Nashville. It's "kind of" Nashville — but not really.

That's an important point about the location of UCF and USF in major cities.

They have directional names, but they're really "city schools" like Louisville, Cincinnati, Houston and Memphis as opposed to, say, Western Michigan and Eastern Michigan that are true directional schools. I think that helped UCF in the conference realignment game - their argument is that they're really an institution like Louisville that's in a larger market and recruiting area.

By the way, USC is in no way, shape or form a "directional school". A true directional school is a non-flagship public institution with a direction in its name. USC, as an elite private institution, doesn't qualify in that manner.

UCF were it actually named Florida Tech would probably have much more cache' to its name.

Likewise, USF being University of Tampa makes more sense. Tampa metro is larger than Memphis, for instance and USF has better academics than Memphis.

(09-12-2021 10:45 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  They would be better off making a name change at this point - take the directional out of their name - even University of Tampa is better than USF

(09-13-2021 10:08 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 08:26 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 06:43 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I refer to UCF as Central Florida. They're a directional school & shouldn't be able to hide it.

UCF and USF benefit, and likely significantly, from being located in large cities. Most "directional schools," if I'm not mistaken, are not. MTSU is located about 35 miles southeast of Nashville. It's "kind of" Nashville — but not really.

That's an important point about the location of UCF and USF in major cities.

They have directional names, but they're really "city schools" like Louisville, Cincinnati, Houston and Memphis as opposed to, say, Western Michigan and Eastern Michigan that are true directional schools. I think that helped UCF in the conference realignment game - their argument is that they're really an institution like Louisville that's in a larger market and recruiting area.

By the way, USC is in no way, shape or form a "directional school". A true directional school is a non-flagship public institution with a direction in its name. USC, as an elite private institution, doesn't qualify in that manner.

Yes, the idea of "directional school" is that some state government has established it to serve some section of the state, which is implicitly a level below schools established to service the entire state. A private University like USC is an entirely different kettle of fish.

The strange thing about USF is that FIU and FAU are the ones in the south of the state ... it will take 50-100 years until USF will be in Southern Florida.

(09-13-2021 10:02 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I believe that it's fair to state that UCF's investments over the past 20 years put themselves in a position to reap the benefit of a Big 12 invite today and pass by USF. They did pretty much everything correctly on-the-field and off-the-field to maximize their value.

However, I'd call shenanigans on the last section of Part 2 at least in terms of trying to directly tie USF blocking UCF to the overall downfall of the Big East. Adding or not adding UCF wasn't the difference between the old Big East getting a new ESPN TV deal and/or stopping Syracuse and Pitt from going to the ACC. Nothing short of the Big East adding Notre Dame and Penn State was keeping that football league together once the ACC decided to expand. Those were all due to forces waaaaaay beyond USF blocking UCF from the Big East and much more powerful.

Considering ESPN is who directed the ACC to raid Pitt and Syracuse, your argument doesn't go very far. Had the Big East signed the ESPN TV contract with TCU and UCF added, ESPN would have had no incentive to add teams to the more expensive ACC contract. The opinion stated in the article has been one held by connected journalists and various Big East officials.

(09-13-2021 11:12 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 10:45 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  They would be better off making a name change at this point - take the directional out of their name - even University of Tampa is better than USF

(09-13-2021 10:08 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 08:26 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 06:43 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I refer to UCF as Central Florida. They're a directional school & shouldn't be able to hide it.

UCF and USF benefit, and likely significantly, from being located in large cities. Most "directional schools," if I'm not mistaken, are not. MTSU is located about 35 miles southeast of Nashville. It's "kind of" Nashville — but not really.

That's an important point about the location of UCF and USF in major cities.

They have directional names, but they're really "city schools" like Louisville, Cincinnati, Houston and Memphis as opposed to, say, Western Michigan and Eastern Michigan that are true directional schools. I think that helped UCF in the conference realignment game - their argument is that they're really an institution like Louisville that's in a larger market and recruiting area.

By the way, USC is in no way, shape or form a "directional school". A true directional school is a non-flagship public institution with a direction in its name. USC, as an elite private institution, doesn't qualify in that manner.

Yes, the idea of "directional school" is that some state government has established it to serve some section of the state, which is implicitly a level below schools established to service the entire state. A private University like USC is an entirely different kettle of fish.

The strange thing about USF is that FIU and FAU are the ones in the south of the state ... it will take 50-100 years until USF will be in Southern Florida.

At the time, it was the most southerly public university. So if you think of everything south of I-4 being "South Florida," then USF is simply located at the northern extremity of the region it was intended to serve. It doesn't have to be centrally located within that region - and it did have a branch campus in Ft. Myers that became Florida Gulf Coast Univ. (I can't believe I'm defending the geographically asinine.)

But, there were some better names entertained for USF before that moniker was selected...

- University of Florida at Temple Terrace
- Flamerica University [indeed, it is in both Florida and America]
- Ponce de Leon University [he didn't make it all the way to Tampa Bay, but he is credited for discovering Florida]
- University of the Western Hemisphere [geographically accurate...imagine the market size claims!]
- Citrus State University

(09-13-2021 12:19 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  At the time, it was the most southerly public university. So if you think of everything south of I-4 being "South Florida," then USF is simply located at the northern extremity of the region it was intended to serve. It doesn't have to be centrally located within that region - and it did have a branch campus in Ft. Myers that became Florida Gulf Coast Univ. (I can't believe I'm defending the geographically asinine.)

But, there were some better names entertained for USF before that moniker was selected...

- University of Florida at Temple Terrace
- Flamerica University [indeed, it is in both Florida and America]
- Ponce de Leon University [he didn't make it all the way to Tampa Bay, but he is credited for discovering Florida]
- University of the Western Hemisphere [geographically accurate...imagine the market size claims!]
- Citrus State University

I thought you were joking about the proposed names ("Flamerica"?!), but you were not! XD

https://www.thebullspen.com/topic/40040-...h-florida/

Most directional schools are commuter schools. UCF has more on campus students living there than most schools in the state of Florida. I believe they even have more than UF.