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Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
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Post: #41
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-11-2021 12:24 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 10:12 AM)NDSUGopher Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 09:30 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 09:14 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 08:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  Its that more than the religious stuff or Falwell. They are a very different type of institution.

So they can't be in a sports conference because they are "different"? What does that mean?

It’s spelled out above, and it has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with grift on a non profit tag.
You mean like Purdue Global Online? Or ASU Online? There was a time when public universities might have had the moral high ground. But that time is long gone. Most public universities are following a business model and are trying to make profits, even if it is called something else for accounting purposes.

I was just ready to give Purdue as an example. It wasn't even just a growth of Purdue programs online, but the actual purchase of a big online for profit they converted to non profit in name. Arizona bought what used to be called Ashford University, Arkansas just bought a non regionally accredited online for profit school, Grantham University. U Mass just bought a Cali school called Brandman for their online and adult program. If people don't like what Liberty is, they don't like lots of others either. Maryland Global campus is more like a global ATM. There's no difference between any of them. Some call it helping working adults finish their degrees, others call it serving the military community, etc. If you don't like the school, it's a diploma mill. Same thing.

Liberty has more growth potential than any FBS program. They are just getting started. No one.else.has the potential they do.

They aren't there yet. Liberty is a campus tacked onto an online school. The others are the reverse. Maybe in 20 years it won't look much different.
09-12-2021 01:16 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
And the strong interest generated with this thread regarding Liberty shows the appeal, both strong and detrimental, as reasons to consider the Flames. Yes, without Willis at QB with his high quality skills LU would be the traditional 3-5 year FBS body bag game. And HC Freeze with his skillful football presence and questioning morality, is one outstanding coach. Say what you like. But who could have predicted the high LU ascension with FB presence in year 3?

LU in any conference will be the lightning rod. The one all teams hate more than most, other than traditional rivalries. They be the one team everyone will hate to lose to, and all other teams will root for your team to beat LU. Just read the SB Liberty/Troy thread.

LU will be an island to itself with little in conference support. That's been the case so far. The SB snubbed LU when LU was begging for an invite. C-USA reportedly said no also. So when LU asked for indy status, the NCAA had no option other than to admit LU or face a lawsuit, which they would have lost.

True Farwell's Jr. and Sr. stumbled over their own feet getting in the way of the sports at the school. And LU in the past has been it's own worst enemy. And since Willis and Freeze have arrived, prior fumbling's have been replaced with success beyond anyone's expectation.

If Freeze remains at LU with his current contract, and if Willis when he leaves is replaced with another exceptional QB, which Freeze does seem to attract, and LU's success continues, ESPN will give LU more air time advancing their appeal. In fake wrestling, the good guy always needs a bad guy. LU is the bad guy everybody wants to beat. And root against. Which makes for good theatre.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2021 01:54 PM by NewTimes.)
09-12-2021 01:48 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-10-2021 04:27 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  I've been having some discussion about Liberty to the AAC in another thread and I tried to dismissed the notion of Liberty getting into the AAC but kept getting responses.

Does Liberty have a chance of getting into the AAC? I'd like to see it. It would put a Virginia school in 3 different conferences. Which is more for me to root for but I assumed the issues that prevented Liberty from getting into the SunBelt would also prevent them from getting into the AAC.

No.
09-12-2021 01:53 PM
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Cardiff Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-12-2021 01:48 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  LU in any conference will be the lightning rod. The one all teams hate more than most, other than traditional rivalries. They be the one team everyone will hate to lose to, and all other teams will root for your team to beat LU.
True. Reminds me of the Dallas Cowboys and Oakland Raiders in the 1970s/80s.
09-12-2021 01:57 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
Liberty isn’t getting into the AAC. The Sun Belt wouldn’t even add them when they could have used warm bodies for members a few years ago.

This is a classic “Think like a university president and not like a sports fan” situation.

Schools would be happy to play Liberty as a non-conference game (just like the Pac-12 schools play BYU as non-conference games), but no one wants to be “married” to them as a conference member.

This is a situation where it’s actually NOT about the money. Liberty could go 12-0 for the next 5 years straight and there will be university presidents that still wouldn’t touch them with a 1000-foot pole because of a whole host of off-the-field matters (just as you’ll never convince Stanford, Berkeley and UCLA to ever consider BYU for the Pac-12 no matter how much money they could make).
09-12-2021 02:07 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-12-2021 02:07 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Liberty isn’t getting into the AAC. The Sun Belt wouldn’t even add them when they could have used warm bodies for members a few years ago.

This is a classic “Think like a university president and not like a sports fan” situation.

Schools would be happy to play Liberty as a non-conference game (just like the Pac-12 schools play BYU as non-conference games), but no one wants to be “married” to them as a conference member.

This is a situation where it’s actually NOT about the money. Liberty could go 12-0 for the next 5 years straight and there will be university presidents that still wouldn’t touch them with a 1000-foot pole because of a whole host of off-the-field matters (just as you’ll never convince Stanford, Berkeley and UCLA to ever consider BYU for the Pac-12 no matter how much money they could make).
True points Frank. And you may be exactly right. And LU will still have a level of success if it's sports success continues. If it diminishes, so will the appeal. If it increases, then the sports interest will increase.
09-12-2021 02:12 PM
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Cardiff Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-12-2021 02:07 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Liberty isn’t getting into the AAC. The Sun Belt wouldn’t even add them when they could have used warm bodies for members a few years ago.

This is a classic “Think like a university president and not like a sports fan” situation.

Schools would be happy to play Liberty as a non-conference game (just like the Pac-12 schools play BYU as non-conference games), but no one wants to be “married” to them as a conference member.

This is a situation where it’s actually NOT about the money. Liberty could go 12-0 for the next 5 years straight and there will be university presidents that still wouldn’t touch them with a 1000-foot pole because of a whole host of off-the-field matters (just as you’ll never convince Stanford, Berkeley and UCLA to ever consider BYU for the Pac-12 no matter how much money they could make).
One key difference, though: those PAC-12 presidents are in a very stable athletic league and are not hurting for money. Granted, they could make a lot more and I’m sure they’d like to make a lot more. But the status-quo is very comfortable.

The AAC, by contrast, is behind the 8-ball right now. They *must* make some major moves. That doesn’t mean they can’t find some other non-Liberty result. But it is a different dynamic than the PAC/BYU.

Another difference: Liberty would (I believe) accept a football-only membership with AAC. BYU would not (I believe) have accepted a football-only membership with the PAC or the BXII.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2021 02:55 PM by Cardiff.)
09-12-2021 02:26 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-12-2021 01:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  They aren't there yet. Liberty is a campus tacked onto an online school. The others are the reverse. Maybe in 20 years it won't look much different.

Maybe I’m misreading your post, but the online growth definitely came after the campus and not a campus as a result of the online school. I graduated in the early 90’s and Liberty was a university with a physical campus and D1 athletics before any web based education existed.
09-12-2021 02:27 PM
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Post: #49
Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
Web Based Education is the Future …and Liberty Sports are the Future ..!!


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09-12-2021 02:30 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-12-2021 02:30 PM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  Web Based Education is the Future …and Liberty Sports are the Future ..!!


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Remember when school presidents and fans didn't want to integrate and demonize the schools that allowed such actions? I'm sure those schools were not "perfect" but continued on a mission of establishing change and not sticking with the good 'ol big boys club. There's nothing new under sun and it's clear that ignorance is still a disease of men. I for one will trust these matters to the AD and hope that the athletics program continue to grow and thrive. There are not many schools in college sports history who can say that they've been successful immediately coming into the FBS. Heck, even UCF had their ups and downs and now they're going to be in a P5 conference. But hey, I'm going to put all my trust on the sources from a sports forum. Whatever happens, LU is going to be alright. Rumors and "he say, she say" are getting of stale now.
09-12-2021 02:49 PM
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Todor Online
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Post: #51
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-12-2021 02:27 PM)SumItUp Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 01:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  They aren't there yet. Liberty is a campus tacked onto an online school. The others are the reverse. Maybe in 20 years it won't look much different.

Maybe I’m misreading your post, but the online growth definitely came after the campus and not a campus as a result of the online school. I graduated in the early 90’s and Liberty was a university with a physical campus and D1 athletics before any web based education existed.

You are correct. The online success came to Liberty because of demand for the education they offered, and because they were smart enough to figure out online decades before others noticed it was real. And while Liberty was early in online, due to demand, they had already perfected distance education in its earlier form. I mean, they were mailing packets of course materials, cassette tapes and video tapes to students back in the 1970's.

Large public universities might be good at spending government and corporate money on research, but as a group, they aren't entrepreneurial, are never at the forefront of new trends, and aren't that good at educating undergrads.

No matter if Liberty gets in the AAC now, later, or never, people will forget all about online issues once they have them themselves.
09-12-2021 07:28 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-11-2021 10:31 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  We are not the anti-science stereotype that you think we are.

Liberty has a Center for Creation Studies devoted to teaching a supposed "creation-evolution controversy."

That doesn't sound like it would be helpful with most FBS university presidents.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2021 08:23 PM by Schadenfreude.)
09-12-2021 08:21 PM
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michael.stevens.3110 Offline
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Post: #53
Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
They’ll be FINE …


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09-12-2021 08:23 PM
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Todor Online
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Post: #54
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-11-2021 12:36 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 10:12 AM)NDSUGopher Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 09:30 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 09:14 PM)SMUfan Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 08:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  Its that more than the religious stuff or Falwell. They are a very different type of institution.

So they can't be in a sports conference because they are "different"? What does that mean?

It’s spelled out above, and it has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with grift on a non profit tag.
You mean like Purdue Global Online? Or ASU Online? There was a time when public universities might have had the moral high ground. But that time is long gone. Most public universities are following a business model and are trying to make profits, even if it is called something else for accounting purposes.

You’re right that public and private universities lost the moral high ground on online programs. My alma mater is absolutely fleecing people with overpriced grad programs that are entirely run by a third part for-profit with Penn’s name attached to it. However, the academic issues at Liberty go beyond online. They break too many institutional norms. BYU is conservative and Christian but institutionally and administratively it looks like other R2s.

And that is a fair assessment. BYU tries to be like the rest for the most part, and Liberty does go its own way sometimes.

This for profit, profit sharing arrangement that all of these online program management companies is a sneaky way to do business. All of the risk is on the school and their name, while a behind the scenes entity gets tons of money with out having to mess with actually being a school.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2021 08:36 PM by Todor.)
09-12-2021 08:33 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
Have they replaced the board that is made up of Falwell’s lackeys and business associates with disinterested professionals not engaged in business deals with the university?

Replaced the interim president with a serious, respected academic?

Ended the laughable young Earth “research” center?

Granted real academic freedom to the faculty?

Established any sort of standards for the online programs?

Provided transparency around their financials?

If all of these haven’t been checked off, then absolutely not.
09-12-2021 08:43 PM
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Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
LIBERTY IS AN EXCELLENT UNIVERSITY…THEY WOULD MAKE AN EXCELLENT ADDITION TO ANY LEAGUE


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09-12-2021 08:45 PM
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Rabonchild Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-10-2021 04:45 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 04:44 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  Now that Falwell Jr and their toxic leadership is gone I'm sure conferences would be more open.

Maybe slightly, but that stink is really going to linger...

First it was said Liberty would never be a FBS team, then it was said they will never be able to develop a schedule, then it was said they will never be able to attract the players they need to compete on the FBS level, then it was said they would never be able to win at the FBS level, now it’s be said they can’t get in a conference. This team never gives up. I’m falling in love with this team.
09-12-2021 09:44 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-12-2021 08:21 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  Liberty has a Center for Creation Studies devoted to teaching a supposed "creation-evolution controversy."

03-puke
09-12-2021 11:21 PM
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The WEST is the BEST Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-12-2021 11:21 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 08:21 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  Liberty has a Center for Creation Studies devoted to teaching a supposed "creation-evolution controversy."

03-puke

Versus "CRT" today?
09-13-2021 11:44 AM
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Todor Online
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Post: #60
RE: Does Liberty have a snowballs chance in hell of getting into the AAC?
(09-13-2021 11:44 AM)The WEST is the BEST Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 11:21 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 08:21 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  Liberty has a Center for Creation Studies devoted to teaching a supposed "creation-evolution controversy."

03-puke

Versus "CRT" today?

I love how some people say Liberty faculty don't have academic freedom, while disliking things their faculty are free to teach.

In other non controversial news, Brigham Young teaches about the Book of Mormon, and Notre Dame teaches life begins at conception...
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2021 12:18 PM by Todor.)
09-13-2021 12:12 PM
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