Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
Author Message
bit_9 Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 9,669
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 215
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #41
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 02:50 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  The remaining 4 non-power conferences could work together to dismantle CUSA - not that they would or should - and end up with 4 14-school conferences.

MWC + UTEP, UTSA
AAC + Florida Atlantic, Marshall, Old Dominion, Rice, Southern Miss, UAB
SBC + Charlotte, Florida International, Louisiana Tech, North Texas
MAC + Middle Tennessee St, Western Kentucky

MWC
Mountain: Air Force, Colorado St, New Mexico, Utah St, UTEP, UTSA, Wyoming
West: Boise St, Fresno St, Hawaii*, Nevada, San Diego St, San Jose St, UNLV
* Football-only

AAC
East: East Carolina, Florida Atlantic, Marshall, Old Dominion, South Florida, Temple, UAB
West: Memphis, Navy*, Rice, SMU, Southern Miss, Tulane, Tulsa
* Football-only
^ Non-football: Wichita St

SBC
East: Appalachian St, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Florida International, Georgia Southern, Georgia St, Troy
West: Arkansas St, Louisiana Tech, North Texas, South Alabama, Texas St, UL Lafayette, UL Monroe
^ Non-football: Arkansas - Little Rock, Texas - Arlington

MAC
East: Akron, Bowling Green St, Buffalo, Kent St, Miami (OH), Ohio, Toledo
West: Ball St, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Middle Tennessee St, Northern Illinois, Western Kentucky, Western Michigan


That's actually not bad. At least for me and my preferences for ODU.
09-10-2021 02:55 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Kit-Cat Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,504
Joined: Jun 2002
Reputation: 78
I Root For: Championships
Location:

CrappiesCrappiesCrappiesCrappiesCrappies
Post: #42
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
Running with the rumor a little here...

In CUSA you have MT, WKU, Marshall, ODU, Charlotte all in the East division which overlaps with the SBC (App, Coastal, GS/GSU) and AAC (ECU).

AAC goes with 4 (WKU, UAB, ODU, Charlotte) and the SBC takes in the other 2 (Marshall, MT). This effectively destroys any chance at an eastern upshot league and reduces CUSA to a more Southwest conference + FAU/FIU.

I don't think its completely the best idea for the AAC (they should try the western expansion path first) but it would rebuild geography for the conference.
09-10-2021 02:56 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
TOPSTRAIGHT Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,414
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 143
I Root For: WKU
Location: Glasgow,KY.
Post: #43
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
These are some of the most farcical post in memory. Glad you guys know the future. Any stock tips?
09-10-2021 03:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
b0ndsj0ns Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 22,830
Joined: Oct 2009
Reputation: 578
I Root For: ECU
Location:
Post: #44
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 02:56 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Running with the rumor a little here...

In CUSA you have MT, WKU, Marshall, ODU, Charlotte all in the East division which overlaps with the SBC (App, Coastal, GS/GSU) and AAC (ECU).

AAC goes with 4 (WKU, UAB, ODU, Charlotte) and the SBC takes in the other 2 (Marshall, MT). This effectively destroys any chance at an eastern upshot league and reduces CUSA to a more Southwest conference + FAU/FIU.

I don't think its completely the best idea for the AAC (they should try the western expansion path first) but it would rebuild geography for the conference.

The whole "geography" thing only matters if you are adding schools that are bus trip distance. Once you get on a plane the difference for ECU flying from RDU to Houston vs RDU to San Diego barely matters. Now you did mention the only 2 bus trip additions for ECU, but I don't know if ECU's opinion on this has changed. Terry Holland was the man pushing hyper regional for ECU, he's been long gone for years and that wasn't a particularly popular strategy among most of the fan base.
09-10-2021 03:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JSchmack Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 372
Joined: Jan 2021
Reputation: 46
I Root For: chaos
Location:
Post: #45
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 02:56 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Running with the rumor a little here...

In CUSA you have MT, WKU, Marshall, ODU, Charlotte all in the East division which overlaps with the SBC (App, Coastal, GS/GSU) and AAC (ECU).

AAC goes with 4 (WKU, UAB, ODU, Charlotte) and the SBC takes in the other 2 (Marshall, MT). This effectively destroys any chance at an eastern upshot league and reduces CUSA to a more Southwest conference + FAU/FIU.

I don't think its completely the best idea for the AAC (they should try the western expansion path first) but it would rebuild geography for the conference.

I think that "makes sense" when you look at the conferences in excel from a 30,000 foot view and you're the realignment Czar being logical.

But from an individual school/conference basis... (Every win pct is last 8 seasons in FB / MBB)
UAB, yes.
ODU, can make argument for.
WKU, makes no sense for the AAC to take them over Marshall. (But fine, Marshall/WKU interchangeable in your scenario)
Charlotte. Great market, but has been bad at football (.313) AND inexplicably men's basketball (.408).

AAC would be better off taking North Texas (.455 / .506) or UTSA (.426 / .560), since those teams are both better than Charlotte AND in bigger markets (Dallas and San Antonio when they just lost Houston).


But let's say the AAC took the four you mention. Marshall and MTSU joining the SBC because it's a "better league" makes sense on the surface...

But that plan is probably going to fail, because C-USA is going to say to App State and Coastal: "Look, where YOU GO determines who is the better league in terms of performance. And the totality of membership combined with that goodness is what brings TV dollars. The bottom of SBC has San Marcos, Monroe and Mobile. The bottom of C-USA has El Paso, Houston and Miami."


C-USA will still be the better option to take 2 from the other.... or FOUR from SBC. In your scenario, if C-USA tells App State, Coastal, Louisiana and Georgia State to look at the performance and markets of their new-look C-USA compared to the current SBC... they're going to win.


The ONLY WAY the SBC can get C-USA teams to jump ship is if the AAC expanded with SIX C-USA members: UAB, North Texas, UTSA, La Tech, MTSU and ONE of WKU/Marshall.

Then you'd get ODU, WKU/Marshall and Charlotte banging on the SBC door.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021 03:24 PM by JSchmack.)
09-10-2021 03:22 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Troy_Fan_15 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,219
Joined: Dec 2016
Reputation: 54
I Root For: Troy, SBC, G5
Location:
Post: #46
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 03:22 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 02:56 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Running with the rumor a little here...

In CUSA you have MT, WKU, Marshall, ODU, Charlotte all in the East division which overlaps with the SBC (App, Coastal, GS/GSU) and AAC (ECU).

AAC goes with 4 (WKU, UAB, ODU, Charlotte) and the SBC takes in the other 2 (Marshall, MT). This effectively destroys any chance at an eastern upshot league and reduces CUSA to a more Southwest conference + FAU/FIU.

I don't think its completely the best idea for the AAC (they should try the western expansion path first) but it would rebuild geography for the conference.

I think that "makes sense" when you look at the conferences in excel from a 30,000 foot view and you're the realignment Czar being logical.

But from an individual school/conference basis... (Every win pct is last 8 seasons in FB / MBB)
UAB, yes.
ODU, can make argument for.
WKU, makes no sense for the AAC to take them over Marshall. (But fine, Marshall/WKU interchangeable in your scenario)
Charlotte. Great market, but has been bad at football (.313) AND inexplicably men's basketball (.408).

AAC would be better off taking North Texas (.455 / .506) or UTSA (.426 / .560), since those teams are both better than Charlotte AND in bigger markets (Dallas and San Antonio when they just lost Houston).


But let's say the AAC took the four you mention. Marshall and MTSU joining the SBC because it's a "better league" makes sense on the surface...

But that plan is probably going to fail, because C-USA is going to say to App State and Coastal: "Look, where YOU GO determines who is the better league in terms of performance. And the totality of membership combined with that goodness is what brings TV dollars. The bottom of SBC has San Marcos, Monroe and Mobile. The bottom of C-USA has El Paso, Houston and Miami."


C-USA will still be the better option to take 2 from the other.... or FOUR from SBC. In your scenario, if C-USA tells App State, Coastal, Louisiana and Georgia State to look at the [b]performance and markets of their new-look C-USA compared to the current SBC... they're going to win.
[/b]

The ONLY WAY the SBC can get C-USA teams to jump ship is if the AAC expanded with SIX C-USA members: UAB, North Texas, UTSA, La Tech, MTSU and ONE of WKU/Marshall.

Then you'd get ODU, WKU/Marshall and Charlotte banging on the SBC door.

There is no way that they leave the Sun Belt and pay all those exit fees to make that move. No way. You obviously still see the Sun Belt like everyone did in 2012 and that's just not the case anymore.
09-10-2021 03:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JSchmack Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 372
Joined: Jan 2021
Reputation: 46
I Root For: chaos
Location:
Post: #47
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 02:50 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  The remaining 4 non-power conferences could work together to dismantle CUSA - not that they would or should - and end up with 4 14-school conferences.

MWC + UTEP, UTSA
AAC + Florida Atlantic, Marshall, Old Dominion, Rice, Southern Miss, UAB
SBC + Charlotte, Florida International, Louisiana Tech, North Texas
MAC + Middle Tennessee St, Western Kentucky

MWC
Mountain: Air Force, Colorado St, New Mexico, Utah St, UTEP, UTSA, Wyoming
West: Boise St, Fresno St, Hawaii*, Nevada, San Diego St, San Jose St, UNLV
* Football-only

AAC
East: East Carolina, Florida Atlantic, Marshall, Old Dominion, South Florida, Temple, UAB
West: Memphis, Navy*, Rice, SMU, Southern Miss, Tulane, Tulsa
* Football-only
^ Non-football: Wichita St

SBC
East: Appalachian St, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Florida International, Georgia Southern, Georgia St, Troy
West: Arkansas St, Louisiana Tech, North Texas, South Alabama, Texas St, UL Lafayette, UL Monroe
^ Non-football: Arkansas - Little Rock, Texas - Arlington

MAC
East: Akron, Bowling Green St, Buffalo, Kent St, Miami (OH), Ohio, Toledo
West: Ball St, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Middle Tennessee St, Northern Illinois, Western Kentucky, Western Michigan


But why? The tendency in conference realignment talk is to open excel and make nice neat columns. That's just your brain craving symmetrical order out of the chaos you're reading about every day.


This is about DOLLARS, not the MAP. There's no reason for the MWC to invite UTEP and UTSA when UTEP is 23-70 in football the last eight years. How does THAT make the MWC better?

How is MTSU and WKU getting more TV dollars going from a mediocre/bad league that has teams in Miami, Charlotte, Dallas, Houston and San Antonio to a mediocre/bad league that has teams in Ohio, Michigan, Muncie and DeKalb?

Why would the AAC pick THOSE four schools? Southern Miss doesn't win enough to overcome that they're in Hattiesburg (La Tech does a far better job of winning more than their market). Does FAU win enough to bring viewers even though they are in a great market? (North Texas wins a lot more in Dallas, and UTSA wins more and has far less competition in San Antonio).


This isn't a kindergarden class where everyone divides up evenly into group and each member of each group gets a cupcake from one of four boxes. This is ruthless Darwinist Capitalism where the one holding the best box of cupcakes makes the other kids fight each other to try and get one, and no one wants to join the group with sugar free veggie biscuits.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021 03:36 PM by JSchmack.)
09-10-2021 03:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Online
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 24,753
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 809
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #48
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 03:02 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 02:56 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Running with the rumor a little here...

In CUSA you have MT, WKU, Marshall, ODU, Charlotte all in the East division which overlaps with the SBC (App, Coastal, GS/GSU) and AAC (ECU).

AAC goes with 4 (WKU, UAB, ODU, Charlotte) and the SBC takes in the other 2 (Marshall, MT). This effectively destroys any chance at an eastern upshot league and reduces CUSA to a more Southwest conference + FAU/FIU.

I don't think its completely the best idea for the AAC (they should try the western expansion path first) but it would rebuild geography for the conference.

The whole "geography" thing only matters if you are adding schools that are bus trip distance. Once you get on a plane the difference for ECU flying from RDU to Houston vs RDU to San Diego barely matters. Now you did mention the only 2 bus trip additions for ECU, but I don't know if ECU's opinion on this has changed. Terry Holland was the man pushing hyper regional for ECU, he's been long gone for years and that wasn't a particularly popular strategy among most of the fan base.

I believe in the theory of close but not too close.

Ideally you add people that at least the non-revenue Olympics can bus to.

It’s OK if you recruit the same ground because everyone hunts the same basic places.

What isn’t acceptable is adding someone who gets coverage in your local media and sells more than a nominal number of tickets in your ticket marketing region.

If you can’t get those and you’ve got to fly baseball and volleyball then you just don’t want it to be problematic travel where players get stuck with long layovers and missing a lot of class time because the travel sucks.
09-10-2021 05:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JSchmack Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 372
Joined: Jan 2021
Reputation: 46
I Root For: chaos
Location:
Post: #49
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 03:34 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  There is no way that they leave the Sun Belt and pay all those exit fees to make that move. No way. You obviously still see the Sun Belt like everyone did in 2012 and that's just not the case anymore.

No. I get it. The Sun Belt has three teams better than anyone in C-USA on the field.

But ON THE FIELD matters far less in realignment than markets. A lot of it is just straight up silly.

Let me be the old man at the end of the bar for a second. I'm gonna guess you're 15 years younger than me (I'm 43) and probably a bright person, but hasn't yet been slapped in the face by the schlong of capitalism and cruelty.

The people running these schools and conferences and TV networks... they're no different that the peers around you at your age. No matter where you go to school, or where you work, or what you're in the middle of in life, you're going to look around and notice that "THAT PERSON is responsible for _____? Dear God, they're a freaking moron!"

Like when your best friend has a kid, and you're like "He's responsible for raising a person, and I literally watched him accidentally set his dog on fire" (Dog was fine, just hair burnt).

A guy I "worked with" 15 years ago, is the AD of a major school now, and I remember him not being able to operate a door after an open bar fundraiser... but HE'S going to guide a major school through conference realignment?

Val Ackerman has been the Big East commissioner since the split, and she has run that league according to conventional wisdom and all her views are the exact opposite of how things actually work and no one seems to care because the Big East is "Fine," when I know for certain that if I was Big East commissioner, I'd get them 7 to 10 NCAA bids every single year.

You get my point.

Sun Belt exit fees? What are they? Couple million? In the grand scheme of things, most people are following conventional wisdom because a couple million seems like a lot of money and that will get them fired if it works out wrong. Conventional wisdom is wrong A LOT, and a visionary person can swing their own schlong at conventional wisdom and win. The idea that "schools follow conferences" instead of "conferences WORK FOR SCHOOLS" is backward. And when a few people realize they can determine their own destiny by bucking conventional wisdom and taking a risk, those schools are going to win big. But no one in the G5 has the balls to do it.

Honestly, the two best thinkers in college football right now, are the WAC and ASUN commissioners. They saw a situation, analyzed it, developed a strategy and it probably would have worked if Texas/Oklahoma didn't Eff everything up. I hope they pull off their mass upgrade to FBS status, because it was genius.
09-10-2021 06:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Troy_Fan_15 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,219
Joined: Dec 2016
Reputation: 54
I Root For: Troy, SBC, G5
Location:
Post: #50
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 06:11 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 03:34 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  There is no way that they leave the Sun Belt and pay all those exit fees to make that move. No way. You obviously still see the Sun Belt like everyone did in 2012 and that's just not the case anymore.

No. I get it. The Sun Belt has three teams better than anyone in C-USA on the field.

But ON THE FIELD matters far less in realignment than markets. A lot of it is just straight up silly.

Let me be the old man at the end of the bar for a second. I'm gonna guess you're 15 years younger than me (I'm 43) and probably a bright person, but hasn't yet been slapped in the face by the schlong of capitalism and cruelty.

The people running these schools and conferences and TV networks... they're no different that the peers around you at your age. No matter where you go to school, or where you work, or what you're in the middle of in life, you're going to look around and notice that "THAT PERSON is responsible for _____? Dear God, they're a freaking moron!"

Like when your best friend has a kid, and you're like "He's responsible for raising a person, and I literally watched him accidentally set his dog on fire" (Dog was fine, just hair burnt).

A guy I "worked with" 15 years ago, is the AD of a major school now, and I remember him not being able to operate a door after an open bar fundraiser... but HE'S going to guide a major school through conference realignment?

Val Ackerman has been the Big East commissioner since the split, and she has run that league according to conventional wisdom and all her views are the exact opposite of how things actually work and no one seems to care because the Big East is "Fine," when I know for certain that if I was Big East commissioner, I'd get them 7 to 10 NCAA bids every single year.

You get my point.

Sun Belt exit fees? What are they? Couple million? In the grand scheme of things, most people are following conventional wisdom because a couple million seems like a lot of money and that will get them fired if it works out wrong. Conventional wisdom is wrong A LOT, and a visionary person can swing their own schlong at conventional wisdom and win. The idea that "schools follow conferences" instead of "conferences WORK FOR SCHOOLS" is backward. And when a few people realize they can determine their own destiny by bucking conventional wisdom and taking a risk, those schools are going to win big. But no one in the G5 has the balls to do it.

Honestly, the two best thinkers in college football right now, are the WAC and ASUN commissioners. They saw a situation, analyzed it, developed a strategy and it probably would have worked if Texas/Oklahoma didn't Eff everything up. I hope they pull off their mass upgrade to FBS status, because it was genius.

That's a crazy good guess but yeah I'm 15 years younger haha.

I get what you're saying and I don't disagree that will happen to an extent, especially with the AAC. However we learned from the C-USA at the G5 that markets don't do near as much as some people think. C-USA went from making 1.2M a year to like 200k a year before slowly creeping it back up with their new Frankenstein TV deal and a spread out geography that many ADs have openly complained about.

Sun Belt built using FCS teams that had proven success and it worked. ESPN has rewarded that and is giving the SBC more and more exposure.

I could always be wrong but I'm willing to bet App State and Coastal and Louisiana do not make that move to the CUSA.
09-10-2021 06:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Georgia_Power_Company Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,013
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation: 91
I Root For: GA Southern
Location: Statesboro GA
Post: #51
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 06:11 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 03:34 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  There is no way that they leave the Sun Belt and pay all those exit fees to make that move. No way. You obviously still see the Sun Belt like everyone did in 2012 and that's just not the case anymore.

No. I get it. The Sun Belt has three teams better than anyone in C-USA on the field.

But ON THE FIELD matters far less in realignment than markets. A lot of it is just straight up silly.

Let me be the old man at the end of the bar for a second. I'm gonna guess you're 15 years younger than me (I'm 43) and probably a bright person, but hasn't yet been slapped in the face by the schlong of capitalism and cruelty.

The people running these schools and conferences and TV networks... they're no different that the peers around you at your age. No matter where you go to school, or where you work, or what you're in the middle of in life, you're going to look around and notice that "THAT PERSON is responsible for _____? Dear God, they're a freaking moron!"

Like when your best friend has a kid, and you're like "He's responsible for raising a person, and I literally watched him accidentally set his dog on fire" (Dog was fine, just hair burnt).

A guy I "worked with" 15 years ago, is the AD of a major school now, and I remember him not being able to operate a door after an open bar fundraiser... but HE'S going to guide a major school through conference realignment?

Val Ackerman has been the Big East commissioner since the split, and she has run that league according to conventional wisdom and all her views are the exact opposite of how things actually work and no one seems to care because the Big East is "Fine," when I know for certain that if I was Big East commissioner, I'd get them 7 to 10 NCAA bids every single year.

You get my point.

Sun Belt exit fees? What are they? Couple million? In the grand scheme of things, most people are following conventional wisdom because a couple million seems like a lot of money and that will get them fired if it works out wrong. Conventional wisdom is wrong A LOT, and a visionary person can swing their own schlong at conventional wisdom and win. The idea that "schools follow conferences" instead of "conferences WORK FOR SCHOOLS" is backward. And when a few people realize they can determine their own destiny by bucking conventional wisdom and taking a risk, those schools are going to win big. But no one in the G5 has the balls to do it.

Honestly, the two best thinkers in college football right now, are the WAC and ASUN commissioners. They saw a situation, analyzed it, developed a strategy and it probably would have worked if Texas/Oklahoma didn't Eff everything up. I hope they pull off their mass upgrade to FBS status, because it was genius.

We don't have all of the details of our new extended TV contract with ESPN but rumor mill says it may include a GOR until 2031 along with a decent bump in payout over time. If true exit fees actually may be more significate than we thought at least at our level.
09-10-2021 06:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JSchmack Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 372
Joined: Jan 2021
Reputation: 46
I Root For: chaos
Location:
Post: #52
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 06:18 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  We don't have all of the details of our new extended TV contract with ESPN but rumor mill says it may include a GOR until 2031 along with a decent bump in payout over time. If true exit fees actually may be more significate than we thought at least at our level.

SUN BELT GOR? SERIOUSLY? Then yes, you win over C-USA because no one is leaving SBC for C-USA if there's GOR.
09-10-2021 06:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Steve1981 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,606
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 175
I Root For: UMass
Location: North Quabbin Region
Post: #53
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 02:53 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 02:05 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 02:03 PM)ACC1953! Wrote:  I'm a underdog kinda guy...... Really want to see New Mexico State and UMASS get into a all sports Conference !!!.... And Seattle get into WCC !!!......WCC should have taken Seattle years ago when Supersonics moved to Oklahoma City.

UMASS could get into an all sports conference if they actually wanted to, just not the one they want to. They don't think it's worth leaving the A10 to join any league lower than the AAC, and I don't even really disagree with their logic on it.

Correct. They played FB in the MAC on a four-year agreement and the terms were at the end of four years, they had to join the MAC for all sports or leave.

UMass chose to leave.
The large bold text is incorrect. The contract stated that the MAC could continue as is, invite UMass for all sports. Don't have time to dig up the contract, but the ultimatum was issued. It was highly unusual to have the invite in a FB only affiliation contract. UMass did ask for it in case the A10 fell apart as Xavier, Temple, Butler, and Charlotte did leave. But Dayton, VCU and others remained strong. Ironically that was the recent peak in A10 bids in 2014. Even UMass received an at large bid. The MAC vetted JMU in case we accepted, but believe we left on good terms cited added travel cost if we joined the MAC. Another curious fact is that football travel expense went up 100k leaving the MAC.

Other things in the thread are true by ECU fans that AAC all sports is possible and everyone else it's for football only. Would be nice to team up with UConn, but they have a really high attitude that could be softening. UMass would accept a FB only in the MAC or CUSA.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021 06:38 PM by Steve1981.)
09-10-2021 06:32 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JSchmack Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 372
Joined: Jan 2021
Reputation: 46
I Root For: chaos
Location:
Post: #54
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 06:18 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  That's a crazy good guess but yeah I'm 15 years younger haha.

I get what you're saying and I don't disagree that will happen to an extent, especially with the AAC. However we learned from the C-USA at the G5 that markets don't do near as much as some people think. C-USA went from making 1.2M a year to like 200k a year before slowly creeping it back up with their new Frankenstein TV deal and a spread out geography that many ADs have openly complained about.

Sun Belt built using FCS teams that had proven success and it worked. ESPN has rewarded that and is giving the SBC more and more exposure.

I could always be wrong but I'm willing to bet App State and Coastal and Louisiana do not make that move to the CUSA.

It's really not a great guess, Troy Fan 15 either means you graduated in 2015, or Troy won a title in 15 and you registered shortly thereafter (I didn't bother looking that up).

In another thread -- because people on here want to start new threads on the same damned topic of AAC expansion or SBC vs C-USA, we literally need a max of seven threads in this entire forum -- I posted about the TV diminishing returns and the pragmatic value of rights to the network.

There's zero point in paying "fair market value" to the C-USA because the brands don't bring viewers, the stakes bring the viewers. 1 vs 2 in Sun Belt cost you Atlanta, Mobile, Dothan, Boone prices; while 1 vs 2 in C-USA costs you Houston, Dallas, Miami prices.

If you're ESPN, you're willing to give the Sun Belt a great offer and tell C-USA you don't need them than you are to pay both conferences their actual worth. We saw this with the MWC a while back. ESPN basically said "You play at 9 or 10 pm, we don't need you" and gave the WCC more money to show Gonzaga basketball on TV from Nov-March than paying the MWC football/basketball what they are worth.

(ESPN did that with the A-10 as well. The A-10 used to be on ESPN as much as the Big East. Around 1999-2001, they just stopped paying what the A-10 was worth. They could throw on 7th vs 9th in the ACC and tell everyone how great the ACC was and save money over paying the A-10 for their value relative to the BCS conferences -- Seriously, this college basketball season, please listen for ESPN saying "the A-10 is a multi-bid league this year" as if we're usually a one-bid league. When you listen for it, it is hilarious because the A-10 has gotten 5 or 6 bids more times than they've gotten one bid.)


The SBC has been great at football compared to C-USA over the last eight years. It's like 34 times ranked vs 8 over the last five or six seasons. Because C-USA went for markets and SBC just took what they could get and market does not equal football wins.

But at the end of the day, you're far better off casting your lot with the markets than non-markets.

App State, Coastal, and Lousiana (and Georgia State) are far more likely to join C-USA than the best performing teams left in C-USA are to join the Sun Belt, because if you look at the four teams at the bottom of each league, the C-USA bottom four are Top 70 markets and the bottom four of SBC are cities I have to google what small town they are.
09-10-2021 06:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Troy_Fan_15 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,219
Joined: Dec 2016
Reputation: 54
I Root For: Troy, SBC, G5
Location:
Post: #55
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 06:51 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 06:18 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  That's a crazy good guess but yeah I'm 15 years younger haha.

I get what you're saying and I don't disagree that will happen to an extent, especially with the AAC. However we learned from the C-USA at the G5 that markets don't do near as much as some people think. C-USA went from making 1.2M a year to like 200k a year before slowly creeping it back up with their new Frankenstein TV deal and a spread out geography that many ADs have openly complained about.

Sun Belt built using FCS teams that had proven success and it worked. ESPN has rewarded that and is giving the SBC more and more exposure.

I could always be wrong but I'm willing to bet App State and Coastal and Louisiana do not make that move to the CUSA.

It's really not a great guess, Troy Fan 15 either means you graduated in 2015, or Troy won a title in 15 and you registered shortly thereafter (I didn't bother looking that up).

In another thread -- because people on here want to start new threads on the same damned topic of AAC expansion or SBC vs C-USA, we literally need a max of seven threads in this entire forum -- I posted about the TV diminishing returns and the pragmatic value of rights to the network.

There's zero point in paying "fair market value" to the C-USA because the brands don't bring viewers, the stakes bring the viewers. 1 vs 2 in Sun Belt cost you Atlanta, Mobile, Dothan, Boone prices; while 1 vs 2 in C-USA costs you Houston, Dallas, Miami prices.

If you're ESPN, you're willing to give the Sun Belt a great offer and tell C-USA you don't need them than you are to pay both conferences their actual worth. We saw this with the MWC a while back. ESPN basically said "You play at 9 or 10 pm, we don't need you" and gave the WCC more money to show Gonzaga basketball on TV from Nov-March than paying the MWC football/basketball what they are worth.

(ESPN did that with the A-10 as well. The A-10 used to be on ESPN as much as the Big East. Around 1999-2001, they just stopped paying what the A-10 was worth. They could throw on 7th vs 9th in the ACC and tell everyone how great the ACC was and save money over paying the A-10 for their value relative to the BCS conferences -- Seriously, this college basketball season, please listen for ESPN saying "the A-10 is a multi-bid league this year" as if we're usually a one-bid league. When you listen for it, it is hilarious because the A-10 has gotten 5 or 6 bids more times than they've gotten one bid.)


The SBC has been great at football compared to C-USA over the last eight years. It's like 34 times ranked vs 8 over the last five or six seasons. Because C-USA went for markets and SBC just took what they could get and market does not equal football wins.

But at the end of the day, you're far better off casting your lot with the markets than non-markets.

App State, Coastal, and Lousiana (and Georgia State) are far more likely to join C-USA than the best performing teams left in C-USA are to join the Sun Belt, because if you look at the four teams at the bottom of each league, the C-USA bottom four are Top 70 markets and the bottom four of SBC are cities I have to google what small town they are.

I'll just agree to disagree but appreciate your input.
09-10-2021 06:55 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JSchmack Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 372
Joined: Jan 2021
Reputation: 46
I Root For: chaos
Location:
Post: #56
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 06:32 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  The large bold text is incorrect. The contract stated that the MAC could continue as is, invite UMass for all sports. Don't have time to dig up the contract, but the ultimatum was issued. It was highly unusual to have the invite in a FB only affiliation contract. UMass did ask for it in case the A10 fell apart as Xavier, Temple, Butler, and Charlotte did leave. But Dayton, VCU and others remained strong. Ironically that was the recent peak in A10 bids in 2014. Even UMass received an at large bid. The MAC vetted JMU in case we accepted, but believe we left on good terms cited added travel cost if we joined the MAC. Another curious fact is that football travel expense went up 100k leaving the MAC.

Other things in the thread are true by ECU fans that AAC all sports is possible and everyone else it's for football only. Would be nice to team up with UConn, but they have a really high attitude that could be softening. UMass would accept a FB only in the MAC or CUSA.

Wait, what?

You're saying the MAC could have just continued with UMass as an affiliate member if they wanted, and it was mutual for UMass to return to Indy?

Also, hi. It's really funny to me to see people from "other" message boards posting in the same places.
09-10-2021 07:33 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Steve1981 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,606
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 175
I Root For: UMass
Location: North Quabbin Region
Post: #57
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
No, the MAC got to decide. The media contract went up from 1.3M to 8M and then 10M, plus CFP came about adding even more money. The MAC universities decided there was no sense in adding a 14th member and keeping UMass and diluting the money to each university. But legally the MAC had to invite UMass all in. So the MAC vetted JMU and UMass declined the all sports invite. It was very predictable and the MAC was happy, without us. Mind you the football program went from elite FCS to mediocre at best with the promotion of Morris as head coach and then we went FBS. It has been one miss step after another. Walt Bell knew the situation but was up for the challenge and wanted to become a head coach. His first year we hit rock bottom and had 52 healthy scholarship players. The APR hit the toilet under Whipple and there was house cleaning of scholarship players that did not toe the mark academically. We are all hoping for improvement but are extremely young and open with two top 40 teams and have 2 more during the season. Our quarterback is banged up from the OL not preforming well. Post on the MAC board because do like the MAC and one of the minority that wished we went all in to the MAC. Think more will find CUSA acceptable for football and posting in this thread.
09-10-2021 11:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JSchmack Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 372
Joined: Jan 2021
Reputation: 46
I Root For: chaos
Location:
Post: #58
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 11:09 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  No, the MAC got to decide. The media contract went up from 1.3M to 8M and then 10M, plus CFP came about adding even more money. The MAC universities decided there was no sense in adding a 14th member and keeping UMass and diluting the money to each university. But legally the MAC had to invite UMass all in. So the MAC vetted JMU and UMass declined the all sports invite. It was very predictable and the MAC was happy, without us. Mind you the football program went from elite FCS to mediocre at best with the promotion of Morris as head coach and then we went FBS. It has been one miss step after another. Walt Bell knew the situation but was up for the challenge and wanted to become a head coach. His first year we hit rock bottom and had 52 healthy scholarship players. The APR hit the toilet under Whipple and there was house cleaning of scholarship players that did not toe the mark academically. We are all hoping for improvement but are extremely young and open with two top 40 teams and have 2 more during the season. Our quarterback is banged up from the OL not preforming well. Post on the MAC board because do like the MAC and one of the minority that wished we went all in to the MAC. Think more will find CUSA acceptable for football and posting in this thread.

I'm an A-10 guy, and I love you (you meaning Doctor J, Marcus Camby, John Calipari getting his butt kicked in a press conference by John Cheney, struggling to win in Olean, UMass hoops-centric athletic department).

I read what you wrote, and I can't tell if you're correcting me on a UMass decision or telling me how the MAC went. You know, from A-10 boards that I love whiskey and reading comprehension with my A-10 degree is tough...

UMasss belongs in the A-10, focusing on basketball first, hockey second and football third. If you upgrade your status in the FBS universe, we wish you well. If no one wants you in football, the A-10 is there when you recognize who you really are.
09-11-2021 01:23 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Lurker Above Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 928
Joined: Apr 2011
Reputation: 53
I Root For: UGA
Location:
Post: #59
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
(09-10-2021 06:51 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 06:18 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  That's a crazy good guess but yeah I'm 15 years younger haha.

I get what you're saying and I don't disagree that will happen to an extent, especially with the AAC. However we learned from the C-USA at the G5 that markets don't do near as much as some people think. C-USA went from making 1.2M a year to like 200k a year before slowly creeping it back up with their new Frankenstein TV deal and a spread out geography that many ADs have openly complained about.

Sun Belt built using FCS teams that had proven success and it worked. ESPN has rewarded that and is giving the SBC more and more exposure.

I could always be wrong but I'm willing to bet App State and Coastal and Louisiana do not make that move to the CUSA.

It's really not a great guess, Troy Fan 15 either means you graduated in 2015, or Troy won a title in 15 and you registered shortly thereafter (I didn't bother looking that up).

In another thread -- because people on here want to start new threads on the same damned topic of AAC expansion or SBC vs C-USA, we literally need a max of seven threads in this entire forum -- I posted about the TV diminishing returns and the pragmatic value of rights to the network.

There's zero point in paying "fair market value" to the C-USA because the brands don't bring viewers, the stakes bring the viewers. 1 vs 2 in Sun Belt cost you Atlanta, Mobile, Dothan, Boone prices; while 1 vs 2 in C-USA costs you Houston, Dallas, Miami prices.

If you're ESPN, you're willing to give the Sun Belt a great offer and tell C-USA you don't need them than you are to pay both conferences their actual worth. We saw this with the MWC a while back. ESPN basically said "You play at 9 or 10 pm, we don't need you" and gave the WCC more money to show Gonzaga basketball on TV from Nov-March than paying the MWC football/basketball what they are worth.

(ESPN did that with the A-10 as well. The A-10 used to be on ESPN as much as the Big East. Around 1999-2001, they just stopped paying what the A-10 was worth. They could throw on 7th vs 9th in the ACC and tell everyone how great the ACC was and save money over paying the A-10 for their value relative to the BCS conferences -- Seriously, this college basketball season, please listen for ESPN saying "the A-10 is a multi-bid league this year" as if we're usually a one-bid league. When you listen for it, it is hilarious because the A-10 has gotten 5 or 6 bids more times than they've gotten one bid.)


The SBC has been great at football compared to C-USA over the last eight years. It's like 34 times ranked vs 8 over the last five or six seasons. Because C-USA went for markets and SBC just took what they could get and market does not equal football wins.

But at the end of the day, you're far better off casting your lot with the markets than non-markets.

App State, Coastal, and Lousiana (and Georgia State) are far more likely to join C-USA than the best performing teams left in C-USA are to join the Sun Belt, because if you look at the four teams at the bottom of each league, the C-USA bottom four are Top 70 markets and the bottom four of SBC are cities I have to google what small town they are.

Your Fair Market Value is only what someone else is willing to pay. It doesn't matter what the reasons are. If you believe your house, car or conference is really worth more than what someone is willing to pay you are always wrong, no matter if you think it's fair or you deserve more. You will never get more that someone is willing to pay.

I'm starting to suspect schools like Marshall no longer give a flying fig or a rolling donut how big of a city their current conference mates reside. In today's market it is all about national brands, not regional markets. The Sunbelt has better national brands because its schools are winning, which is a great thing because schools are now being paid based on meritocracy, not residency.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2021 01:29 AM by Lurker Above.)
09-11-2021 01:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Realignment Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 490
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 22
I Root For: USC Trojans
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Post: #60
RE: Interesting Tidbit I hear about CUSA.....
It'll be interesting to see what happens. Conference USA has a horrible TV deal. I could see the AAC taking Buffalo, and then the MAC backfills with Marshall.
09-11-2021 01:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2021 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2021 MyBB Group.