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Congrats to New B12
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Statefan Offline
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Congrats to New B12
Congrats to those moving up to the B12.

NC State has upcoming games with Cincy and BYU and we will see if those game are retained.
09-10-2021 10:49 AM
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CardFan1 Offline
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RE: Congrats to New B12
Happy for Them, was hoping that UC could have gone to the ACC but at least Those 4 finally found a home. Not a whole lot left if ACC needed to expand in the future. Maybe Navy
09-10-2021 10:59 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 10:59 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Happy for Them, was hoping that UC could have gone to the ACC but at least Those 4 finally found a home. Not a whole lot left if ACC needed to expand in the future. Maybe Navy

IOW, the only teams the ACC would want to add (besides Notre Dame) are all in other P5 conferences already.

Would consider Navy ONLY IF a package deal with Notre Dame.

Could see USF, Temple, and Memphis progressing to the point where the ACC might be interested - but they aren't there yet.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021 11:45 AM by Hokie Mark.)
09-10-2021 11:43 AM
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 10:59 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Happy for Them, was hoping that UC could have gone to the ACC but at least Those 4 finally found a home. Not a whole lot left if ACC needed to expand in the future. Maybe Navy

Just like WV, they will be available if the ACC ever needs them. Even if there is a waiting period because of GOR's.
09-10-2021 11:56 AM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 11:43 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 10:59 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Happy for Them, was hoping that UC could have gone to the ACC but at least Those 4 finally found a home. Not a whole lot left if ACC needed to expand in the future. Maybe Navy

IOW, the only teams the ACC would want to add (besides Notre Dame) are all in other P5 conferences already.

Would consider Navy ONLY IF a package deal with Notre Dame.

Could see USF, Temple, and Memphis progressing to the point where the ACC might be interested - but they aren't there yet.

Memphis is not happening in our lifetimes. Perhaps by 2150.

USF is academically on par with the ACC.

If you start looking outside the P-5 but east of the Mississippi you only get USF as an ACC analog school.

Temple and U of Ohio would be at the bottom end of the ACC but neither have shown the ability to support a major college football program. Past them you get the academic quality you need in Stonybrook and Buffalo, but they would have big challenges. Then you have UAB which is a graduate focused university under the thumb of Alabama politicians who pick on UAB when they can't stick Auburn.

That means the only one east of the Mississippi that could enter the ACC in our lifetime are Navy, USF, and Army (I'm not advocating or saying they are great, just that they could get the votes, be accepted, and fit in without all Hell breaking loose).

Past those three, the only others that would have the slightest chance in Hell are tied up in the great white north, already have a football level that fills this niche, and don't offer full rides for college football. (Figure out how to monetize Quebec and Ontario)
09-10-2021 12:14 PM
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CardFan1 Offline
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 12:14 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 11:43 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 10:59 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Happy for Them, was hoping that UC could have gone to the ACC but at least Those 4 finally found a home. Not a whole lot left if ACC needed to expand in the future. Maybe Navy

IOW, the only teams the ACC would want to add (besides Notre Dame) are all in other P5 conferences already.

Would consider Navy ONLY IF a package deal with Notre Dame.

Could see USF, Temple, and Memphis progressing to the point where the ACC might be interested - but they aren't there yet.

Memphis is not happening in our lifetimes. Perhaps by 2150.

USF is academically on par with the ACC.

If you start looking outside the P-5 but east of the Mississippi you only get USF as an ACC analog school.

Temple and U of Ohio would be at the bottom end of the ACC but neither have shown the ability to support a major college football program. Past them you get the academic quality you need in Stonybrook and Buffalo, but they would have big challenges. Then you have UAB which is a graduate focused university under the thumb of Alabama politicians who pick on UAB when they can't stick Auburn.

That means the only one east of the Mississippi that could enter the ACC in our lifetime are Navy, USF, and Army (I'm not advocating or saying they are great, just that they could get the votes, be accepted, and fit in without all Hell breaking loose).

Past those three, the only others that would have the slightest chance in Hell are tied up in the great white north, already have a football level that fills this niche, and don't offer full rides for college football. (Figure out how to monetize Quebec and Ontario)

USF is one I thought about, good academics, huge campus, Metro Tampa Bay area. They were once a decent Football school in a state still loaded with talent. However I don't believe FSU, Miami would welcome Them with open arms. However never say never
09-10-2021 12:31 PM
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 10:59 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Happy for Them, was hoping that UC could have gone to the ACC but at least Those 4 finally found a home. Not a whole lot left if ACC needed to expand in the future. Maybe Navy

Hopeful the Keg of Nails can be resumed as an OOC game but understand the issues UOfL faces with UK game OOC as well.
09-10-2021 01:13 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: Congrats to New B12
If the ACC decides to expand I'm sure Cincy, WVU and UCF would likely jump.

No reason to expand until ND makes a move
09-10-2021 01:58 PM
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schmolik Offline
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 12:14 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Memphis is not happening in our lifetimes. Perhaps by 2150.

USF is academically on par with the ACC.

If you start looking outside the P-5 but east of the Mississippi you only get USF as an ACC analog school.

Temple and U of Ohio would be at the bottom end of the ACC but neither have shown the ability to support a major college football program. Past them you get the academic quality you need in Stonybrook and Buffalo, but they would have big challenges. Then you have UAB which is a graduate focused university under the thumb of Alabama politicians who pick on UAB when they can't stick Auburn.

If the criteria is academics, Temple and USF tied in the 2021 USN&WR rankings (#103). So "USF is academically on par with the ACC" and "Temple ... would be at the bottom end of the ACC" are contradictory statements.
09-10-2021 02:43 PM
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 01:58 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  If the ACC decides to expand I'm sure Cincy, WVU and UCF would likely jump.

No reason to expand until ND makes a move

I believe this brings peace to the Big conferences till the ACC gets closer to the end of their contract.
09-10-2021 03:23 PM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 02:43 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 12:14 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Memphis is not happening in our lifetimes. Perhaps by 2150.

USF is academically on par with the ACC.

If you start looking outside the P-5 but east of the Mississippi you only get USF as an ACC analog school.

Temple and U of Ohio would be at the bottom end of the ACC but neither have shown the ability to support a major college football program. Past them you get the academic quality you need in Stonybrook and Buffalo, but they would have big challenges. Then you have UAB which is a graduate focused university under the thumb of Alabama politicians who pick on UAB when they can't stick Auburn.

If the criteria is academics, Temple and USF tied in the 2021 USN&WR rankings (#103). So "USF is academically on par with the ACC" and "Temple ... would be at the bottom end of the ACC" are contradictory statements.

We don't use US News - their rankings are easy to game. Look at ARWU - USF is 63-89, Temple is 130-152. Graduate research matters more than undergraduate entrance metrics. Pitt, UNC, Duke, GT, NC State, VT, UVa, Miami, and FSU are graduate research institutions (Comparison would be B10). WF, BC, and ND are more your classical "undergraduate college" (Comparison would Dartmouth, Brown the less research intensive Ivies. Syracuse, Louisville, and Clemson are "odd ducks".

Clemson is Land Grant/Cow College that while it does graduate research, has purposely kept itself smaller than it could be in order to boost the academic standing of the university. Syracuse is a former AAU graduate research university who in the late 60's and 70's made some inexplicable decisions to step out of some fields other than Communications. Louisville is a City College with a really good Medical School and is growing the University to meet the Med School's standards, but that takes time.

USF has already arrived as a graduate research institution. Army and Navy have already arrived as elite undergraduate institutions. Temple has some of MD's problems and is located in a State that does not value public higher education.

While Temple's admission rate is 60%, USF has a rate of 48%. USF has a small endowment of just .7 Billion but USF is only 65 years old. Temple only has .7 Billion and is 130 years old. This illustrates a support problem for Temple which is similar to MD's problems among others. While the endowment does not fund football, it's a damn good indicator of how much money an institution can lay its hands on when it needs it.

If Temple wants into the ACC, they need to figure out how to merge with Villanova and that ensuing entity would be able to cross the threshold.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021 03:46 PM by Statefan.)
09-10-2021 03:37 PM
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 03:37 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Temple has some of MD's problems and is located in a State that does not value public higher education.

Could you expand on that part a bit? I know Pennsylvania is merging a bunch of the PSU satellite schools but didn't know they didn't value higher education.
09-10-2021 04:19 PM
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CardinalJim Offline
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RE: Congrats to New B12
I expect The ACC to be in the same position The Big 12 is in now come 2031 or 2032. I realize that’s at least a decade away, and lots of things could happen before that time, but its never too early to put together a contingency plan for replacing the four teams at least The ACC will lose to The Big Ten and SEC.

If The Big 12 forces WVU, UC and others to sign a GOR, the candidates for future ACC backfilling are going to be scarce.

Going to be interesting watching this develop.
09-10-2021 04:28 PM
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CardFan1 Offline
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 04:28 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I expect The ACC to be in the same position The Big 12 is in now come 2031 or 2032. I realize that’s at least a decade away, and lots of things could happen before that time, but its never too early to put together a contingency plan for replacing the four teams at least The ACC will lose to The Big Ten and SEC.

If The Big 12 forces WVU, UC and others to sign a GOR, the candidates for future ACC backfilling are going to be scarce.

Going to be interesting watching this develop.

Lol by 2031 Miami, Syracuse, Louisville could be the top dogs in the ACC While Clemson, FSU, UNC ,VA way down the list. No one can predict a league performance 10 years out. Some of the SEC former big guns could be tired of being in the bottom of divisions and want to relocate to other conferences
09-10-2021 04:43 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 04:19 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 03:37 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Temple has some of MD's problems and is located in a State that does not value public higher education.

Could you expand on that part a bit? I know Pennsylvania is merging a bunch of the PSU satellite schools but didn't know they didn't value higher education.

Seems to me Northerners prefer PRIVATE higher eductation. I don’t know why. Maybe they are more affluent.
09-10-2021 04:49 PM
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Maize Offline
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RE: Congrats to New B12
Very happy for Cincinnati...they are IMO our brothers from another mother from Louisville people. Glad they are back above the Mendoza Line and in a Power Conference and hopefully we can get the Keg of Nails back up and running..also congrats to Former C-USA/American Mates Houston and UCF. Job well done...04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021 07:22 PM by Maize.)
09-10-2021 07:22 PM
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 11:43 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 10:59 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Happy for Them, was hoping that UC could have gone to the ACC but at least Those 4 finally found a home. Not a whole lot left if ACC needed to expand in the future. Maybe Navy

IOW, the only teams the ACC would want to add (besides Notre Dame) are all in other P5 conferences already.

Would consider Navy ONLY IF a package deal with Notre Dame.

Could see USF, Temple, and Memphis progressing to the point where the ACC might be interested - but they aren't there yet.

Good lawd, Gobbler! Save it for next century!!
09-10-2021 08:51 PM
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Bear Catlett Offline
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RE: Congrats to New B12
The B12 finally made a smart move.

They should've taken us and Louisville when they took WV.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021 09:09 PM by Bear Catlett.)
09-10-2021 09:09 PM
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 09:09 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  The B12 finally made a smart move.

They should've taken us and Louisville when they took WV.

In the end it worked out for everyone involved. Im sure Louisville fans are very happy the way things worked out though.
09-10-2021 09:30 PM
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schmolik Offline
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-10-2021 03:37 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 02:43 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 12:14 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Memphis is not happening in our lifetimes. Perhaps by 2150.

USF is academically on par with the ACC.

If you start looking outside the P-5 but east of the Mississippi you only get USF as an ACC analog school.

Temple and U of Ohio would be at the bottom end of the ACC but neither have shown the ability to support a major college football program. Past them you get the academic quality you need in Stonybrook and Buffalo, but they would have big challenges. Then you have UAB which is a graduate focused university under the thumb of Alabama politicians who pick on UAB when they can't stick Auburn.

If the criteria is academics, Temple and USF tied in the 2021 USN&WR rankings (#103). So "USF is academically on par with the ACC" and "Temple ... would be at the bottom end of the ACC" are contradictory statements.

We don't use US News - their rankings are easy to game. Look at ARWU - USF is 63-89, Temple is 130-152. Graduate research matters more than undergraduate entrance metrics. Pitt, UNC, Duke, GT, NC State, VT, UVa, Miami, and FSU are graduate research institutions (Comparison would be B10). WF, BC, and ND are more your classical "undergraduate college" (Comparison would Dartmouth, Brown the less research intensive Ivies. Syracuse, Louisville, and Clemson are "odd ducks".

Clemson is Land Grant/Cow College that while it does graduate research, has purposely kept itself smaller than it could be in order to boost the academic standing of the university. Syracuse is a former AAU graduate research university who in the late 60's and 70's made some inexplicable decisions to step out of some fields other than Communications. Louisville is a City College with a really good Medical School and is growing the University to meet the Med School's standards, but that takes time.

USF has already arrived as a graduate research institution. Army and Navy have already arrived as elite undergraduate institutions. Temple has some of MD's problems and is located in a State that does not value public higher education.

While Temple's admission rate is 60%, USF has a rate of 48%. USF has a small endowment of just .7 Billion but USF is only 65 years old. Temple only has .7 Billion and is 130 years old. This illustrates a support problem for Temple which is similar to MD's problems among others. While the endowment does not fund football, it's a damn good indicator of how much money an institution can lay its hands on when it needs it.

If Temple wants into the ACC, they need to figure out how to merge with Villanova and that ensuing entity would be able to cross the threshold.

OK, USF is a better academic school than Temple. Show how Louisville's a better academic school than Temple before saying that Temple doesn't belong in the ACC academically. Not to mention you have two schools in Florida. You have a school in Pennsylvania but if you know anything about PA, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are in opposite ends of the state (Pittsburgh and Temple are 302 miles away, Syracuse (253 miles) and Virginia (256) are closer. There aren't many Pittsburgh fans in Philly, they're not Penn State (or Florida State in Tampa).
09-11-2021 11:26 AM
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