Statefan
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RE: Congrats to New B12
(09-11-2021 11:26 AM)schmolik Wrote: (09-10-2021 03:37 PM)Statefan Wrote: (09-10-2021 02:43 PM)schmolik Wrote: (09-10-2021 12:14 PM)Statefan Wrote: Memphis is not happening in our lifetimes. Perhaps by 2150.
USF is academically on par with the ACC.
If you start looking outside the P-5 but east of the Mississippi you only get USF as an ACC analog school.
Temple and U of Ohio would be at the bottom end of the ACC but neither have shown the ability to support a major college football program. Past them you get the academic quality you need in Stonybrook and Buffalo, but they would have big challenges. Then you have UAB which is a graduate focused university under the thumb of Alabama politicians who pick on UAB when they can't stick Auburn.
If the criteria is academics, Temple and USF tied in the 2021 USN&WR rankings (#103). So "USF is academically on par with the ACC" and "Temple ... would be at the bottom end of the ACC" are contradictory statements.
We don't use US News - their rankings are easy to game. Look at ARWU - USF is 63-89, Temple is 130-152. Graduate research matters more than undergraduate entrance metrics. Pitt, UNC, Duke, GT, NC State, VT, UVa, Miami, and FSU are graduate research institutions (Comparison would be B10). WF, BC, and ND are more your classical "undergraduate college" (Comparison would Dartmouth, Brown the less research intensive Ivies. Syracuse, Louisville, and Clemson are "odd ducks".
Clemson is Land Grant/Cow College that while it does graduate research, has purposely kept itself smaller than it could be in order to boost the academic standing of the university. Syracuse is a former AAU graduate research university who in the late 60's and 70's made some inexplicable decisions to step out of some fields other than Communications. Louisville is a City College with a really good Medical School and is growing the University to meet the Med School's standards, but that takes time.
USF has already arrived as a graduate research institution. Army and Navy have already arrived as elite undergraduate institutions. Temple has some of MD's problems and is located in a State that does not value public higher education.
While Temple's admission rate is 60%, USF has a rate of 48%. USF has a small endowment of just .7 Billion but USF is only 65 years old. Temple only has .7 Billion and is 130 years old. This illustrates a support problem for Temple which is similar to MD's problems among others. While the endowment does not fund football, it's a damn good indicator of how much money an institution can lay its hands on when it needs it.
If Temple wants into the ACC, they need to figure out how to merge with Villanova and that ensuing entity would be able to cross the threshold.
OK, USF is a better academic school than Temple. Show how Louisville's a better academic school than Temple before saying that Temple doesn't belong in the ACC academically. Not to mention you have two schools in Florida. You have a school in Pennsylvania but if you know anything about PA, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are in opposite ends of the state (Pittsburgh and Temple are 302 miles away, Syracuse (253 miles) and Virginia (256) are closer. There aren't many Pittsburgh fans in Philly, they're not Penn State (or Florida State in Tampa).
Who said Louisville was a better university according to academic or research measures as compared to Temple. I never said that. Louisville has been functioning as a public university only since 1970. But to really compare Temple to Louisville you need to look at the endowments. With just 144K alums, Louisville has an endowment of .719 B. With 320K alums Temple has an endowment of only .641 B.
That's an endowment rate of $5000 for every U of Louisville graduate and just $2000 for every Temple graduate. This is a lack of support for Temple that is due in part to it's unfortunate geography. If Temple were in Ohio or Virginia, it would be the 3rd most important school in the State. In Pa, Temple is behind Penn, Carnegie Mellon, Pitt, Villanova, and Penn State. If we trade out institutions for their analog in the State of NC, Duke = Penn, UNC = Pitt, NC State = Penn State, WF = Villanova, and while more a stretch, Davidson's twin would be CM. That makes Temple to be some combination of UNC-G, ECU, and UNC Charlotte.
This matters from the standpoint of what you can get your governor and legislature to swing for you.
None of this makes Louisville's academics better than Temple's. However your football stinks, has stunk, and got you tossed out of the Big East. In this sense you are like Tulane who has deemphasized football three times in 80 years. The ACC knows that Louisville is committed to a robust football program and that their alums support such a program. We don't know that about you.
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