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McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
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Post: #41
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-10-2021 12:19 AM)JSchmack Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 12:01 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  CUSA is so strong in hoops they’ve not had an at-large bid since 2012, Sun Belt 2013. I think the difference in units earned is 2 to the favor of CUSA and that’s split 14 ways.

You get a unit for making the field, and one unit per win (up until the Final Four). And each unit pays you for the next six seasons.

So because of that, C-USA is getting paid 8 to SBC 5 next season.

Each unit is worth like $390,000k or so, it escalates each year by like 10 grand based on how many commercials CBS/Turner sells.
Six is the minimum so Sun Belt is getting six vs CUSA 8. Looked it up the value of a unit was $282,100 in 2020. So CUSA is earning $564,100 more in NCAA units. Sun Belt made $1.5 million to $3 million more than CUSA in four of the past five years in CFP money. That easily offsets the difference in units and split 10 ways instead of 14
09-10-2021 12:41 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #42
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-09-2021 09:32 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote:  This is called the panic period of realignment.

Texas and OU are out the door.

Houston, Cincinnati, and UCF have forced the AAC to raid C-USA.

The Sun Belt know that C-USA is going to raid them next and they are trying to beat C-USA to the punch, by tempting a few key programs into jumping conferences, and shifting the balance of power.

I won't work. C-USA is still a the better overall conference. And any C-USA program the Belt would target knows it.

Depends. If the AAC takes say---Rice, UAB, Buffalo, and Marshall--leaving the Sunbelt untouched---it could easily give the SB the upper hand. With all of their long time peers in CUSA out the door, S Miss might be ready to jump to the SB. The Sunbelt could add S Miss and pair them with either LaTech/Liberty/JMU and the Sunbelt is in really excellent shape with a pretty tight footprint with lots of potential rivalries. CUSA would still have options. I think Texas St would still go to CUSA even if the Sunbelt held the better hand at that point. Being with UNT, UTSA, and UTEP would be very appealing to Texas St. JMU would still be an option and UConn and UMass would be interested in football only invites.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021 01:21 AM by Attackcoog.)
09-10-2021 01:11 AM
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Post: #43
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-10-2021 12:35 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 12:34 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I posted a link that Chattanooga might make a move now. SBC pursued them before. They do have good history of footbaall and men's basketball.

I would rather keep the 12 we have now. JMU might be the ONLY FCS team worth inviting up and keep perceptions up but I think the SBC is beyond that now. They got their eyes on teams like Marshall and Southern Miss I bet.


Chattanooga does have a history with Georgia Southern and Appalachian State.
09-10-2021 01:36 AM
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Post: #44
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-10-2021 12:35 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 12:34 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I posted a link that Chattanooga might make a move now. SBC pursued them before. They do have good history of footbaall and men's basketball.

I would rather keep the 12 we have now. JMU might be the ONLY FCS team worth inviting up and keep perceptions up but I think the SBC is beyond that now. They got their eyes on teams like Marshall and Southern Miss I bet.

JMU’s athletic budget us bigger by far than any current or prospective member of the SBC and their facilities are definitely FBS quality. https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances

The question isn’t whether the SBC would be interested in JMU. It’s whether JMU would be interested in the SBC.

During the last round of expansion JMU let it be known that while they were open to a move to FBS they wouldn’t join the SBC which at the time was the lowest ranked conference in FBS. The SBC has improved significantly since then, so JMU might entertain this option.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021 04:16 AM by OscarWildeCat.)
09-10-2021 04:15 AM
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Post: #45
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-10-2021 04:15 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 12:35 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 12:34 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I posted a link that Chattanooga might make a move now. SBC pursued them before. They do have good history of footbaall and men's basketball.

I would rather keep the 12 we have now. JMU might be the ONLY FCS team worth inviting up and keep perceptions up but I think the SBC is beyond that now. They got their eyes on teams like Marshall and Southern Miss I bet.

JMU’s athletic budget us bigger by far than any current or prospective member of the SBC and their facilities are definitely FBS quality. https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances

The question isn’t whether the SBC would be interested in JMU. It’s whether JMU would be interested in the SBC.

During the last round of expansion JMU let it be known that while they were open to a move to FBS they wouldn’t join the SBC which at the time was the lowest ranked conference in FBS. The SBC has improved significantly since then, so JMU might entertain this option.

In the end I wouldn’t be mad with JMU but I think there are realistic options at the FBS level we go for first. We aren’t the bottom so we don’t have to rely on a FCS call up but if we are going to use a FCS team JMU would be the best option to invite. When I said “SB is beyond that” it was a comment really about UTC not JMU
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021 06:13 AM by Troy_Fan_15.)
09-10-2021 06:05 AM
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Post: #46
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-10-2021 01:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 12:35 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 12:34 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I posted a link that Chattanooga might make a move now. SBC pursued them before. They do have good history of footbaall and men's basketball.

I would rather keep the 12 we have now. JMU might be the ONLY FCS team worth inviting up and keep perceptions up but I think the SBC is beyond that now. They got their eyes on teams like Marshall and Southern Miss I bet.


Chattanooga does have a history with Georgia Southern and Appalachian State.

Doesn’t matter. If Chattanooga offered the Belt anything they’d be in already (I imagine). We are looking to strike big.
09-10-2021 06:10 AM
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Post: #47
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-10-2021 06:05 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 04:15 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 12:35 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 12:34 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I posted a link that Chattanooga might make a move now. SBC pursued them before. They do have good history of footbaall and men's basketball.

I would rather keep the 12 we have now. JMU might be the ONLY FCS team worth inviting up and keep perceptions up but I think the SBC is beyond that now. They got their eyes on teams like Marshall and Southern Miss I bet.

JMU’s athletic budget us bigger by far than any current or prospective member of the SBC and their facilities are definitely FBS quality. https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances

The question isn’t whether the SBC would be interested in JMU. It’s whether JMU would be interested in the SBC.

During the last round of expansion JMU let it be known that while they were open to a move to FBS they wouldn’t join the SBC which at the time was the lowest ranked conference in FBS. The SBC has improved significantly since then, so JMU might entertain this option.

In the end I wouldn’t be mad with JMU but I think there are realistic options at the FBS level we go for first. We aren’t the bottom so we don’t have to rely on a FCS call up but if we are going to use a FCS team JMU would be the best option to invite. When I said “SB is beyond that” it was a comment really about UTC not JMU

04-cheers I’d agree with this statement.
09-10-2021 06:59 AM
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Post: #48
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
If I had to guess the main candidates for the Sun Belt, would saying they are Marshall, Southern Miss, JMU,
Liberty, and ODU be fair in that order (assuming UAB goes to AAC)?
09-10-2021 07:22 AM
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Post: #49
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
The SBC has problems trying to raid CUSA.

1) CUSA has the Florida twins and SBC doesn't.
2) CUSA has 4 Texas schools, CUSA only 1
3) CUSA has members in Kentucky/West Virginia

CUSA was designed to be a selective conference. Only market schools or significant mid major athletic programs (WKU, Marshall, UTEP) have made the cut.

SBC was designed as a FCS move up conference, taking in any viable FCS program. There is the success of Coastal and Louisiana but there are programs is the SBC that membership wants to get away from.

The most attractive SBC block is App-Coastal-GS-GSU. They may not feel compelled to move, however TxSt-Louisiana-ArkSt is not as tight then of course you have Troy and USA.

What I could see happen in CUSA get down to 11 and to sweeten the pot invite someone like JMU as a 12th to keep ODU/Marshall happy. JMU, Louisiana and Texas St to get back to 14.
09-10-2021 07:38 AM
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Post: #50
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-10-2021 04:15 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 12:35 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 12:34 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I posted a link that Chattanooga might make a move now. SBC pursued them before. They do have good history of footbaall and men's basketball.

I would rather keep the 12 we have now. JMU might be the ONLY FCS team worth inviting up and keep perceptions up but I think the SBC is beyond that now. They got their eyes on teams like Marshall and Southern Miss I bet.

JMU’s athletic budget us bigger by far than any current or prospective member of the SBC and their facilities are definitely FBS quality. https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances

The question isn’t whether the SBC would be interested in JMU. It’s whether JMU would be interested in the SBC.

During the last round of expansion JMU let it be known that while they were open to a move to FBS they wouldn’t join the SBC which at the time was the lowest ranked conference in FBS. The SBC has improved significantly since then, so JMU might entertain this option.

JMU wouldn't join at the time because the Sun Belt was at 11 members, needed to get to 12 to hold a conference title game (per NCAA rules) and included Idaho and NM State.

Alot has changed:

no requirement for 12 which led to....
Idaho and NM state getting the boot and
Coastal (a more regional school for JMU) coming in to get back to 10

and let's be clear, JMU said they WOULD go for football only. but the SB wanted an all sports member. And because of the geography at the time (with ID/NMSt) JMU didn't think it was a good fit.

if the SB comes again, especially if paired with another east cost team (Marshall, Liberty, ODU), there is no doubt JMU would say yes this time.
09-10-2021 07:47 AM
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Post: #51
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-10-2021 07:22 AM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  If I had to guess the main candidates for the Sun Belt, would saying they are Marshall, Southern Miss, JMU, Liberty, and ODU be fair in that order (assuming UAB goes to AAC)?



This is pretty spot on.
09-10-2021 07:47 AM
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Post: #52
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-09-2021 11:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-09-2021 09:18 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(09-09-2021 09:14 PM)bullet Wrote:  This rates up there with the story about the AAC aggressively pursuing Big 12 teams.

We all know how that turned out.

I mean not really, since I think the Sun Belt might make more in TV revenue than C-USA, or at the very least the difference is so close it's not even worth distinguishing. I don't really think there's much point in schools from either league moving from one to the other, but maybe if the AAC took 2 C-USA members that would tip the balance toward the Sun-Belt.

Sun Belt has taken home more CFP money four of the past five seasons than CUSA by placing higher in the rankings used for performance money and has signed an extension with ESPN that increases appearance on linear TV both weeknight and Saturday appearances

Not that this is going to happen, but for me if there were some scenario where enough teams left the AAC to dissolve it and ECU had to join another league I'd want it to be the Sun-Belt at this point. I feel like there's at least an identity and cohesion to the Sun-Belt, and the schools for the most part make sense to be in a league together.
09-10-2021 08:06 AM
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Post: #53
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-10-2021 08:06 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(09-09-2021 11:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-09-2021 09:18 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(09-09-2021 09:14 PM)bullet Wrote:  This rates up there with the story about the AAC aggressively pursuing Big 12 teams.

We all know how that turned out.

I mean not really, since I think the Sun Belt might make more in TV revenue than C-USA, or at the very least the difference is so close it's not even worth distinguishing. I don't really think there's much point in schools from either league moving from one to the other, but maybe if the AAC took 2 C-USA members that would tip the balance toward the Sun-Belt.

Sun Belt has taken home more CFP money four of the past five seasons than CUSA by placing higher in the rankings used for performance money and has signed an extension with ESPN that increases appearance on linear TV both weeknight and Saturday appearances

Not that this is going to happen, but for me if there were some scenario where enough teams left the AAC to dissolve it and ECU had to join another league I'd want it to be the Sun-Belt at this point. I feel like there's at least an identity and cohesion to the Sun-Belt, and the schools for the most part make sense to be in a league together.

ECU and Marshall to the Sunbelt would be about as perfect as it could get for App St.
09-10-2021 08:09 AM
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Post: #54
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-10-2021 07:47 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 07:22 AM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  If I had to guess the main candidates for the Sun Belt, would saying they are Marshall, Southern Miss, JMU, Liberty, and ODU be fair in that order (assuming UAB goes to AAC)?
This is pretty spot on.

CUSA has historically been a selective conference. They'll pull from the SBC again though certain programs won't move.

There is also the possibility of CUSA just inviting JMU to go with Marshall/ODU and if that happens all 3 will stay in CUSA.
09-10-2021 08:12 AM
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Post: #55
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
I know everybody here considers them toxic but they'd be smart to add Liberty.
09-10-2021 08:19 AM
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RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
I’ll believe no Sun Belt schools darting for CUSA when I see it. Especially given how the AAC responds. There’s a big difference in CUSA’s attractiveness should it only shed a Rice, versus losing Marshall, USM, and UAB.

And, also, so many schools pegged themselves to CUSA as a ceiling when they did their feasibility studies. I would hope that the leaders at SBC schools have some self-awareness about how much better the conference has become than CUSA, but I’m not sold on it being so.
09-10-2021 08:38 AM
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RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
09-10-2021 08:42 AM
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RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-10-2021 08:42 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  https://twitter.com/sunbelt/status/14363...16576?s=21



meh.

that's all nice and all, but doesn't mean jack **** for the future.

look at the MAC....had NIU and WMU both high on the horse and in big bowl games. they have disappeared since. even Boise has lost some luster since it's heyday.

any G5 league can have a moment. it's about sustaining it over time, like the AAC has done the past few years.

and the key to sustaining is having well supported programs. the more of those you have, the better.

THAT, more than any single season ranking, is why the SB has a better future than CUSA. Because they invited and invested in well supported programs and didn't get fooled by the market philosophy, which was the wrong path to take when you are not a P5 league

markets only work for getting your own conference network into as many cable homes as possible which will then pay your league a ton of $$$ in carrier fees...such as the BIG inviting Rutgers and Maryland to get in cable homes in the DMV in NY. it worked. my Fios in VA has the BIG network, but not the pac12. wonder why that is? hmmm.

No G5 league has, or will have, any kind of its own TV network. they have to generate revenue from ESPN/CBS/Fox, etc. But those networks are now seeing the money for that isn't in cable, it's in streaming. so it simply doesn't matter where a school is located, it's how many eyeballs they can get to stream.

that's why the market philosophy has, and will continue , to fail at the G5 level. Any of those leagues should be wanting schools with robust budgets and even more robust fan bases.....like App State, Ga Southern, ODU, Marshall, Louisiana, Arkansas State....and yes, JMU. Not the FU's/fGSU's of the world. they have no fans. and will have no eyeballs streaming. Ever.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021 08:57 AM by Duke Dawg.)
09-10-2021 08:55 AM
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RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-09-2021 09:08 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  TwoB

Marshall? Liberty? ODU? Maybe even UTSA.

Isn't it really important for Marshall to be in a league with access to Florida? I'd have a hard time seeing them join the Belt without bringing FAU along, even though the Owls would be somewhat of an outlier. Then again, Georgia is producing a significant number of FBS prospects, so perhaps Marshall could live without Florida access if Belt stays intact and GS and GSU are still in the fold. Liberty isn't getting a conference invite and I'd imagine that ODU will go to the AAC, so if it is Marshall, and FAU isn't invited, then I'd think one of MTSU, WKU, UTSA, or USM would be the likeliest partner in a move along with the Herd.
09-10-2021 09:08 AM
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Post: #60
RE: McMurphy: Sun Belt Aggressively Pursuing New Members
(09-10-2021 08:09 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(09-10-2021 08:06 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(09-09-2021 11:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(09-09-2021 09:18 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(09-09-2021 09:14 PM)bullet Wrote:  This rates up there with the story about the AAC aggressively pursuing Big 12 teams.

We all know how that turned out.

I mean not really, since I think the Sun Belt might make more in TV revenue than C-USA, or at the very least the difference is so close it's not even worth distinguishing. I don't really think there's much point in schools from either league moving from one to the other, but maybe if the AAC took 2 C-USA members that would tip the balance toward the Sun-Belt.

Sun Belt has taken home more CFP money four of the past five seasons than CUSA by placing higher in the rankings used for performance money and has signed an extension with ESPN that increases appearance on linear TV both weeknight and Saturday appearances

Not that this is going to happen, but for me if there were some scenario where enough teams left the AAC to dissolve it and ECU had to join another league I'd want it to be the Sun-Belt at this point. I feel like there's at least an identity and cohesion to the Sun-Belt, and the schools for the most part make sense to be in a league together.

ECU and Marshall to the Sunbelt would be about as perfect as it could get for App St.
I think that would work for much of the SBC-East. It would also push Troy west and eliminate the permanent crossover game.
09-10-2021 09:27 AM
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