Now posted on ETSU site.

Weak home conference schedule, but about what we have come to expect. The biggest different the last two seasons is that not only has the home schedule been week but we have also reduced the number of home games. Before, the justification for the non-division 1 teams were that we were getting more home games. Now, we are getting all the non-division 1 teams along with less games.

Overall, the non-conference schedule looks good, but games against the noteworthy opponents are mostly not in Johnson City. Not sure if it was just a matter of timing on home-and-home arrangements. Appy St, UAM, and UNC-A are all away. The home schedule has 3 non-D1 schools; I don't know whether having multiple non-D1 games is just an ETSU thing or a general trend with most D1 programs. Seems like the money would be better for D1 schools to work together and play each other rather than a D2, D3 or NAIA school. I get that you'll probably always have the "exhibition" against a non-D1 opponent, but I don't understand why you have to play any others for the games that count. Easy for me to question, though, as I don't have to put a schedule together.

(09-11-2021 08:09 AM)frankenheimer Wrote:  Overall, the non-conference schedule looks good, but games against the noteworthy opponents are mostly not in Johnson City. Not sure if it was just a matter of timing on home-and-home arrangements. Appy St, UAM, and UNC-A are all away. The home schedule has 3 non-D1 schools; I don't know whether having multiple non-D1 games is just an ETSU thing or a general trend with most D1 programs. Seems like the money would be better for D1 schools to work together and play each other rather than a D2, D3 or NAIA school. I get that you'll probably always have the "exhibition" against a non-D1 opponent, but I don't understand why you have to play any others for the games that count. Easy for me to question, though, as I don't have to put a schedule together.

It is a valid point from you Franky. It seems like common sense that mid-majors (low or high mid-majors) would want to play home and homes with one another rather than what we get year after year. I did check Furman's home schedule (Radford, Navy, College of Charleston, App State, and Presbyterian) and they have a much more attractive home schedule than the Bucs this season but haven't researched anymore than that. Maybe the coaching change hamstrung Oliver a bit.

There was a thing where several mid-major conferences had banded together to improve scheduling but it fell apart last year before it got started, not sure if COVID caused too many problems to make it viable at that time but sucks it didn't work out.

This same disdain for the Bucs home schedule is repeated every year. It has been beat to death. Our coaches and administration have repeatedly explained the problem. ETSU is a high mid major playing in a mid major conference. Every coach at every level knows coming to Freedom Hall is a minefield.The lessor mid majors and NAIA schools want a big payday, example, 60k for USC Upstate. ETSU does not have the money to pay 4-5 average mid majors 60-80k.

ETSU is stuck in a small conference, with schools that have very little possibility of growing. Basketball has plateaued and football has fallen from a top mid major conference to a mid pack conference.

Expansion of conference is a possibility but what school other than small ones would be interested?

The only way ETSU can offer better basketball and football entertainment is change conferences. I'm sure this suggestion will meet all the usual reasons why ETSU can't move. All I will say to that is, a large number of our Peer Institutions have found a way.

The idea that easy traveling to SoCon schools and playing tournament in Asheville keeps ETSU locked in a no growth, poor home schedules, one bid league.

I love the Bucs and will continue to support them.

Hope the Bucs have a sellout crowd for their opening football game today against UVA-Wise.

I suppose I over-estimate the revenue or business value of putting together a good non-conference game. The bigger conferences do the exact same thing - schedule home games with lesser opponents. With the big conferences, part of the motivation is adding wins to their resume when at-large tournament bids are decided. The idealist in me likes to believe that the big schools are also motivated by altruism, such as giving schools in their system a little exposure, e.g. UT hosting ETSU or Purdue hosting IPFW.

For the mid and low tier D1 programs, I guess the business value of good games isn't high enough. If I was an athletic director and had to pay $50K for another D1 team and it might only get me an additional $25K in revenue, I would probably make the same decision.

I wouldn't agree that the conference is weak. The conference RPI out of 32 conferences is consistently in the top half and the past three years has averaged around 11th, and for the 2020-2021 season the conference RPI was 9th. And while the conference has remained a 1 bid league, it has been on the cusp of getting a second bid a few times if the favorite hadn't won the conference tournament.

The argument that I make against moving conferences is that for basketball (which is the sport that I care about) these moves are basically lateral ones. SoCon is consistently ahead of the Ohio Valley and Sun Belt, and is basically in the same general area as the Missouri Valley and Conference USA. Unless ETSU moves to the American Athletic or the MAC, there isn't a better option.

I don't claim to have inside knowledge of the ETSU athletic budget, I'm sure margins are tight. My point is that the home schedule has gotten significantly worse at the same time that the conference and university profile has risen and as season ticket prices have increased.

(09-12-2021 07:42 AM)etsubuc Wrote:  I wouldn't agree that the conference is weak. The conference RPI out of 32 conferences is consistently in the top half and the past three years has averaged around 11th, and for the 2020-2021 season the conference RPI was 9th. And while the conference has remained a 1 bid league, it has been on the cusp of getting a second bid a few times if the favorite hadn't won the conference tournament.

The argument that I make against moving conferences is that for basketball (which is the sport that I care about) these moves are basically lateral ones. SoCon is consistently ahead of the Ohio Valley and Sun Belt, and is basically in the same general area as the Missouri Valley and Conference USA. Unless ETSU moves to the American Athletic or the MAC, there isn't a better option.

I don't claim to have inside knowledge of the ETSU athletic budget, I'm sure margins are tight. My point is that the home schedule has gotten significantly worse at the same time that the conference and university profile has risen and as season ticket prices have increased.

You make some very good points etsubuc. 76' hear you about the payouts to other D-1 opponents and it being a taxing expense on the budget, but my point was playing home and home series with other mid majors which should be a wash. We go to C of C and they come here (can even be in the same year like LeForce used to do so often) although I prefer in back to back seasons as to keep a larger mix of teams. Whatever they pay us, we pay them in return. It can be done if the mid majors look to each other first when setting the scheds. The alliance Rod mentioned would/could be the answer.

(09-12-2021 09:13 AM)BaseballPops Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 07:42 AM)etsubuc Wrote:  I wouldn't agree that the conference is weak. The conference RPI out of 32 conferences is consistently in the top half and the past three years has averaged around 11th, and for the 2020-2021 season the conference RPI was 9th. And while the conference has remained a 1 bid league, it has been on the cusp of getting a second bid a few times if the favorite hadn't won the conference tournament.

The argument that I make against moving conferences is that for basketball (which is the sport that I care about) these moves are basically lateral ones. SoCon is consistently ahead of the Ohio Valley and Sun Belt, and is basically in the same general area as the Missouri Valley and Conference USA. Unless ETSU moves to the American Athletic or the MAC, there isn't a better option.

I don't claim to have inside knowledge of the ETSU athletic budget, I'm sure margins are tight. My point is that the home schedule has gotten significantly worse at the same time that the conference and university profile has risen and as season ticket prices have increased.

You make some very good points etsubuc. 76' hear you about the payouts to other D-1 opponents and it being a taxing expense on the budget, but my point was playing home and home series with other mid majors which should be a wash. We go to C of C and they come here (can even be in the same year like LeForce used to do so often) although I prefer in back to back seasons as to keep a larger mix of teams. Whatever they pay us, we pay them in return. It can be done if the mid majors look to each other first when setting the scheds. The alliance Rod mentioned would/could be the answer.

Three of the Power 5 conferences now in alliance — ACC, Big 10, and PAC-12. Yes, would be nice for mid-major basketball conferences to do this with home and home games with some shared TV deals.

Catawba Roster
http://gocatawbaindians.com/roster.asp?sportID=2
They played our guy Forbes last season I noticed https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket.../401273454

Lees McRae Roster
https://lmcbobcats.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster

Lenoir Roster
https://lrbears.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster

For what it’s worth, Catawba is an exhibition game.
The other two non D-1 games will count on the teams overall record.

Wouldn't it be cool if the exhibition could be against the TBT team? I know it would never happen, but that would be an event that would definitely draw a gate. Might even get a little TV coverage.

And for what it's worth, I really have no problem with the exhibition game being against a non-D1 team. The exhibition game is about seeing the team for the first time and less so about the opponent or the game itself. And I think the opponents like the chance to complete against a higher level school, regardless of the outcome.

(09-14-2021 06:08 AM)frankenheimer Wrote:  Wouldn't it be cool if the exhibition could be against the TBT team? I know it would never happen, but that would be an event that would definitely draw a gate. Might even get a little TV coverage.

And for what it's worth, I really have no problem with the exhibition game being against a non-D1 team. The exhibition game is about seeing the team for the first time and less so about the opponent or the game itself. And I think the opponents like the chance to complete against a higher level school, regardless of the outcome.

Back in the day, there were exhibition games like this. Remember Marathon Oil? They used to travel around the country playing Div 1 teams in early exhibitions. Can't remember if ETSU ever played them, or a similar traveling team. But I think Marathon started beating some of those teams and that was a no no. So I guess those Div 1 teams started paying and playing small schools they know they could beat in an exhibition.

Why not the Bucketneers?

Pretty sure the NCAA did away with games of that type. I could be wrong.

(09-14-2021 06:32 AM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  

(09-14-2021 06:08 AM)frankenheimer Wrote:  Wouldn't it be cool if the exhibition could be against the TBT team? I know it would never happen, but that would be an event that would definitely draw a gate. Might even get a little TV coverage.

And for what it's worth, I really have no problem with the exhibition game being against a non-D1 team. The exhibition game is about seeing the team for the first time and less so about the opponent or the game itself. And I think the opponents like the chance to complete against a higher level school, regardless of the outcome.

Back in the day, there were exhibition games like this. Remember Marathon Oil? They used to travel around the country playing Div 1 teams in early exhibitions. Can't remember if ETSU ever played them, or a similar traveling team. But I think Marathon started beating some of those teams and that was a no no. So I guess those Div 1 teams started paying and playing small schools they know they could beat in an exhibition.

Quantico Marines Devil Dogs football
Seal of Marine Corps Base Quantico.png
First season 1919
Last season 1972
Stadium Butler Stadium
Year built c. 1923[1]
Location Quantico, Virginia
All-time record 339–134–15 (.710)
Bowl record 4–2 (.667)
Claimed national titles 5 (National Service champions: 1921, 1922, 1953, 1959, 1963)
Colors Scarlet and Gold

Do remember them. ETSU played them in 1967 & 68. Lost both at their place. Too lazy to look past that.

It's not exactly the same thing, but I remember (I was in elementary school, with the associated unreliable elementary school memory) football games with a team of college all-stars playing against a team of pro players. I don't remember if the pro team was an NFL team or a team of NFL players. This was in the mid-70s. How'd that come to mind? I guess cause we were talking about exhibition games.

Back to college basketball exhibitions - I suppose the team hosting the exhibition would like a win and would like to give everyone on the roster a few minutes of playing time. Not sure if any college plays a travelling squad for exhibitions any more. One team I remember from my Purdue days was called Athletes in Action; if memory serves, it was made up former college players that weren't on a pro roster.

(09-14-2021 08:32 PM)frankenheimer Wrote:  It's not exactly the same thing, but I remember (I was in elementary school, with the associated unreliable elementary school memory) football games with a team of college all-stars playing against a team of pro players. I don't remember if the pro team was an NFL team or a team of NFL players. This was in the mid-70s. How'd that come to mind? I guess cause we were talking about exhibition games.

Back to college basketball exhibitions - I suppose the team hosting the exhibition would like a win and would like to give everyone on the roster a few minutes of playing time. Not sure if any college plays a travelling squad for exhibitions any more. One team I remember from my Purdue days was called Athletes in Action; if memory serves, it was made up former college players that weren't on a pro roster.

The Chicago Charities College All-Star Game was a preseason American football game played from 1934 to 1976 between the National Football League (NFL) champions and a team of star college seniors from the previous year. It was also known as the College All-Star Football Classic.[1]

The game was contested annually — except for 1974, due to that year's NFL strike — and was played in July, August, or September. In the 42 College All-Star Games, the defending pro champions won 31, the All-Stars won nine, and two were ties, giving the collegians a .238 winning percentage.

(09-14-2021 06:32 AM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  

(09-14-2021 06:08 AM)frankenheimer Wrote:  Wouldn't it be cool if the exhibition could be against the TBT team? I know it would never happen, but that would be an event that would definitely draw a gate. Might even get a little TV coverage.

And for what it's worth, I really have no problem with the exhibition game being against a non-D1 team. The exhibition game is about seeing the team for the first time and less so about the opponent or the game itself. And I think the opponents like the chance to complete against a higher level school, regardless of the outcome.

Back in the day, there were exhibition games like this. Remember Marathon Oil? They used to travel around the country playing Div 1 teams in early exhibitions. Can't remember if ETSU ever played them, or a similar traveling team. But I think Marathon started beating some of those teams and that was a no no. So I guess those Div 1 teams started paying and playing small schools they know they could beat in an exhibition.

Marathon had a few teams, ETSU did play one of them also against several other traveling teams, lots of faith-based ones (they would give a presentation during the half) a lot of those teams would be short and pick up locals and ex-players to fill out rosters. I still remember the pain of watching Greg Stephens throw one down over Talford, He damn near posterized him. Talford spent most of the game on the bench with ice packs on both knees. But yeah I remember Dennis, Geer and Keller and others others playing against the Bucs in Brooks in those games.