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What does the West Coast Conference do?
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
Denver's athletic budget is actually $38.5M. However $12.5m of that is scholarships.

Basketball has a decent sized budget at $2.4m for men and $2.1m for women, which needs to grow a bit for the WCC; $3.5-4.5m are where most of those budgets are at.

So where does the money go? Denver spends $13m on men's sports, with no football, but $10.6m is not for Basketball. There is no specific breakdown, but we can glean where it goes by looking at the operational costs, as presuming that is roughly linear with the team costs:

Hockey: $667,968
Basketball: $496,457
Lacrosse: $484,791
Soccer: $440,015

This suggests Hockey gets more money than Basketball, Lacrosse roughly the same amount and Soccer almost as much. Skiing also takes a bite, another sport other schools are not sponsoring. When you remove Skiing, Hockey, Lacrosse and Scholarships, the actual budget for sports other schools have is probably in the low to mid teens of millions.

They focus different than other schools.
09-10-2021 08:50 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #42
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-10-2021 08:05 PM)puck swami Wrote:  DU ATHLETICS:
-Top ranked non-football athletic dept in America for the last 11 of last 12 years (NACDA points)
-96% athletic graduation rate
-Hoops budget of around $3 million
-Denver has NCAA Tourney level programs in nine WCC sports – M/W Swimming, M/W Tennis, M/WGolf, M/WSoccer, W Volleyball
-Average athletic dept GPA of 3.5/3.6
-DU has offered travel expense incentives in the past to the WCC
-$35+ million athletic budget/yr
-All DU sports facilities under 23 years old and high level
-Basketball facilities due for an upgrade, WCC entrance will help funding
-33 NCAA Titles (8 hockey, 24 Skiing, 1 lacrosse (all in sports not in the WCC)
-DU Student athletes stay out of trouble

Here's the problem:

1. Without football, there is no fall visibility.
2. Men's basketball hasn't made the NCAA's since it was a Div. II school.
3. "Top ranked" is largely a collection of NCAA titles in winter sports which most fans outside New England and the upper Midwest frankly don't follow.
4. Because Denver has never closely been associated with a major conference, it lacks name recognition, i.e., "that's a Mountain West school" or "that's a C-USA program."
09-10-2021 09:20 PM
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geef Offline
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Post: #43
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
Puck Swami! Good to see you here. Cincy grad, but longtime DU employee. I live in the neighborhood next to U of Portland now, and think DU would be a terrific fit culturally. The challenge, as many have identified, is geography and sports fit. DU has obviously invested heavily in lacrosse, hockey and women's gymnastics, but they're missing key WCC sports in baseball, track, and cross country. Basketball would certainly elevate if they joined the WCC, but I believe the conference would want to see some of those other sports added (cross country would make the most sense, I suppose - I was there when the women's team was eliminated). See you over on Letsgodublog.....

(09-10-2021 08:05 PM)puck swami Wrote:  While Denver's basketball is poor today, there is a now new coach (from Stanford) and there is nowhere to go but up.

There are a lot of positives that Denver brings to the WCC table:

SCHOOL:
-US News top 100 National University in 2020 (#80)
-6,000 undergrad, 7,000 grad students – WCC size
-Endowment — $700-800 million – WCC size
-Private, Methodist past, founded 1864 (similar to WCC privates)

MARKET & MEDIA
-Fast -growing top 17 TV market, with metro area population of 3 million
-Denver is an affluent, upscale, top-rated white collar city that will be attractive to WCC schools’ recruiting efforts for athletes and regular students
-Easy access, large airport with non-stop flights to most WCC cities
-TV relationship with Altitude Sports in Rocky Mountain Region, available nationally on satellite

DU ATHLETICS:
-Top ranked non-football athletic dept in America for the last 11 of last 12 years (NACDA points)
-96% athletic graduation rate
-Hoops budget of around $3 million
-Denver has NCAA Tourney level programs in nine WCC sports – M/W Swimming, M/W Tennis, M/WGolf, M/WSoccer, W Volleyball
-Average athletic dept GPA of 3.5/3.6
-DU has offered travel expense incentives in the past to the WCC
-$35+ million athletic budget/yr
-All DU sports facilities under 23 years old and high level
-Basketball facilities due for an upgrade, WCC entrance will help funding
-33 NCAA Titles (8 hockey, 24 Skiing, 1 lacrosse (all in sports not in the WCC)
-DU Student athletes stay out of trouble
09-10-2021 11:04 PM
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JSchmack Offline
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Post: #44
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
I love hockey more than basketball. Basketball out of the "big four" is my least favorite sport. Hockey is probably the best sport.

But conference realignment wise, hockey is the most cost inefficient sport. Denver won't get into the WCC because they aren't an institutional fit, are a time zone away from everyone, and there's no point to adding them. Denver over Pacific in 2013 was a legit argument then. But Denver lost THEN, with BYU as the ninth team. So Denver to the WCC is about as realistic as Seattle or Grand Canyon. It's just not happening.

Not because of anything Denver did, but because of who the WCC is.
09-11-2021 01:33 AM
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bluesox Offline
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Post: #45
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
Go to 12 with Seattle, Denver and either AFA or CBU...than break into two divisions of 6 with a 10-6 format
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2021 08:24 AM by bluesox.)
09-11-2021 08:23 AM
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Lopes87 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-11-2021 08:23 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Go to 12 with Seattle, Denver and either AFA or CBU...than break into two divisions of 6 with a 10-6 format

CBU is still in transition and don't think they can leave the WAC until they are done with transition.
09-11-2021 11:38 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
Cal Baptist is a long term possible, But they need to show they are top of the WAC (consistent top three) and around 100 NET year in and out to get that invite around 2030. It's hard to see the WCC biting before then.

I think the arguments against Seattle, Denver and Gran Canyon are extremely compelling. Seattle is the best institutional fit, but they need to perform at that 100 NET rating year after year and draw more than flies to their game to get an invite. That would be an amazing turn around. GCU is just not going to be accepted by the WCC Presidents. DU is just focused different, a student body and sports mix that is heavily Great Lakes, New England, NY and DC focused; they look East, not West.

They probably just stay as they are until they find a school that fits. Excepting Gonzaga these are basically West Coast elite religious schools that care more about competing with each other in an insular way than in being anything great.
09-11-2021 11:56 AM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #48
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-11-2021 11:38 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 08:23 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Go to 12 with Seattle, Denver and either AFA or CBU...than break into two divisions of 6 with a 10-6 format

CBU is still in transition and don't think they can leave the WAC until they are done with transition.

CBU is eligible for the 2023 tournament.
09-11-2021 01:59 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #49
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-09-2021 12:19 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Seattle is the best option available if they want a #10. They were national runner-up in 1958 with HOFer Elgin Baylor.

Solid argument there.
09-11-2021 02:08 PM
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Lopes87 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-11-2021 11:56 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Cal Baptist is a long term possible, But they need to show they are top of the WAC (consistent top three) and around 100 NET year in and out to get that invite around 2030. It's hard to see the WCC biting before then.

I think the arguments against Seattle, Denver and Gran Canyon are extremely compelling. Seattle is the best institutional fit, but they need to perform at that 100 NET rating year after year and draw more than flies to their game to get an invite. That would be an amazing turn around. GCU is just not going to be accepted by the WCC Presidents. DU is just focused different, a student body and sports mix that is heavily Great Lakes, New England, NY and DC focused; they look East, not West.

They probably just stay as they are until they find a school that fits. Excepting Gonzaga these are basically West Coast elite religious schools that care more about competing with each other in an insular way than in being anything great.

CBU 18-19 to present, 50-35, .588 W-L% and 23-21 in the WAC
SU 17-18 to present, 64-55 .538 W-L% and 25-28 in the WAC
DU 17-18 to present 32-80 .285 W-L% and 14-45 in the Summit
GCU 17-18 to present 72-50 .599 W-L% and 36-22 in the WAC
w/ Reg WAC Championship and WAC Tournament Championship 1 NCAA tournament appearance.
09-11-2021 02:34 PM
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #51
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-11-2021 02:08 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(09-09-2021 12:19 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Seattle is the best option available if they want a #10. They were national runner-up in 1958 with HOFer Elgin Baylor.

Solid argument there.

That will really be a big selling point - the class of 1960 should be phenomenal.
09-11-2021 04:57 PM
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46566 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-11-2021 11:38 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 08:23 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Go to 12 with Seattle, Denver and either AFA or CBU...than break into two divisions of 6 with a 10-6 format

CBU is still in transition and don't think they can leave the WAC until they are done with transition.

Northern Kentucky went from the Atlantic Sun to the Horizon league during it's transition to D1. I don't think there's a rule blocking teams changing conferences during it's transition years.
09-12-2021 12:28 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #53
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-12-2021 12:28 AM)46566 Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 11:38 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 08:23 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Go to 12 with Seattle, Denver and either AFA or CBU...than break into two divisions of 6 with a 10-6 format

CBU is still in transition and don't think they can leave the WAC until they are done with transition.

Northern Kentucky went from the Atlantic Sun to the Horizon league during it's transition to D1. I don't think there's a rule blocking teams changing conferences during it's transition years.

The NCAA doesn’t prohibit it, but conference charters and bylaws might. NKU “served its time” in ASun and came to Horizon fully eligible, iirc. ASun visit was allegedly due to Horizon not taking D2 transitionals directly?
09-13-2021 03:27 AM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #54
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-13-2021 03:27 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 12:28 AM)46566 Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 11:38 AM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 08:23 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Go to 12 with Seattle, Denver and either AFA or CBU...than break into two divisions of 6 with a 10-6 format

CBU is still in transition and don't think they can leave the WAC until they are done with transition.

Northern Kentucky went from the Atlantic Sun to the Horizon league during it's transition to D1. I don't think there's a rule blocking teams changing conferences during it's transition years.

The NCAA doesn’t prohibit it, but conference charters and bylaws might. NKU “served its time” in ASun and came to Horizon fully eligible, iirc. ASun visit was allegedly due to Horizon not taking D2 transitionals directly?

By the time the move would actually need to occur in 2023, Cal Baptist would be full D1 status
09-13-2021 06:46 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #55
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-11-2021 02:34 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  CBU 18-19 to present, 50-35, .588 W-L% and 23-21 in the WAC
SU 17-18 to present, 64-55 .538 W-L% and 25-28 in the WAC
DU 17-18 to present 32-80 .285 W-L% and 14-45 in the Summit
GCU 17-18 to present 72-50 .599 W-L% and 36-22 in the WAC
w/ Reg WAC Championship and WAC Tournament Championship 1 NCAA tournament appearance.

Again, the clear choices for the WCC are:

(1) Add no one and stay at nine members.
(2) Go for the strong institutional and cultural fit, and add Seattle
(3) Forget about (2), look solely at men's basketball program strength, and add Grand Canyon

It's extremely unlikely the WCC will do anything other than one of those three options.
09-13-2021 11:35 AM
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Post: #56
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-13-2021 11:35 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 02:34 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  CBU 18-19 to present, 50-35, .588 W-L% and 23-21 in the WAC
SU 17-18 to present, 64-55 .538 W-L% and 25-28 in the WAC
DU 17-18 to present 32-80 .285 W-L% and 14-45 in the Summit
GCU 17-18 to present 72-50 .599 W-L% and 36-22 in the WAC
w/ Reg WAC Championship and WAC Tournament Championship 1 NCAA tournament appearance.

Again, the clear choices for the WCC are:

(1) Add no one and stay at nine members.
(2) Go for the strong institutional and cultural fit, and add Seattle
(3) Forget about (2), look solely at men's basketball program strength, and add Grand Canyon

It's extremely unlikely the WCC will do anything other than one of those three options.

My preference would Option #2 then #1 then #3.
09-13-2021 11:44 AM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #57
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
At the bare minimum, a current program is going to have to add softball
09-13-2021 11:53 AM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #58
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
I know that markets aren't supposed to matter these days but it's hard for me to fathom that a conference with a presence in San Diego, Los Angeles, the Central Valley, the Bay Area and Portland would not take advantage of an opportunity to plant the flag in Seattle.
09-13-2021 11:58 AM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #59
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-13-2021 11:58 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I know that markets aren't supposed to matter these days but it's hard for me to fathom that a conference with a presence in San Diego, Los Angeles, the Central Valley, the Bay Area and Portland would not take advantage of an opportunity to plant the flag in Seattle.

Gonzaga would make the case that Gonzaga plants the flag there.
09-13-2021 12:06 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #60
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-13-2021 11:53 AM)solohawks Wrote:  At the bare minimum, a current program is going to have to add softball

An associate member for softball can take care of that. A D-I conference has to have at least six teams for every "olympic" sport it sponsors, but they don't all have to be full members.
09-13-2021 12:13 PM
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