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What does the West Coast Conference do?
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #21
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
Like Gonzaga won't still be ranked #1 because of Seattle or CBU low RPI. Yeah right. If they were actually concerned they'd join the MWC or may want to join now anyway. If not CBU or Seattle won't hurt them in any way.
09-09-2021 12:13 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-09-2021 12:13 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Like Gonzaga won't still be ranked #1 because of Seattle or CBU low RPI. Yeah right. If they were actually concerned they'd join the MWC or may want to join now anyway. If not CBU or Seattle won't hurt them in any way.

Seattle is the best option available if they want a #10. They were national runner-up in 1958 with HOFer Elgin Baylor.
09-09-2021 12:19 AM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-08-2021 01:08 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Short answer? Bring back Seattle.

Shorter? Do nothing.

Probably this, but if they have a strong consensus to add a 10th member and Gonzaga blocks Seattle, then it's going to be Grand Canyon.
09-09-2021 12:43 AM
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_C2_ Online
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Post: #24
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
Hey Wedge, excited about Cal football? (Probably as excited as I am about UH football 03-puke)
09-09-2021 01:14 AM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-09-2021 01:14 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Hey Wedge, excited about Cal football? (Probably as excited as I am about UH football 03-puke)

I've seen this movie many times. For some reason I keep coming back to watch it. 03-banghead
09-09-2021 01:21 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-09-2021 01:21 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-09-2021 01:14 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Hey Wedge, excited about Cal football? (Probably as excited as I am about UH football 03-puke)

I've seen this movie many times. For some reason I keep coming back to watch it. 03-banghead

Don't worry, after TCU you have three winnable games. You have UW in the same house that Montana took them.
09-09-2021 01:28 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #27
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
We’ll find out in time how this goes down, but I think there are forces pulling in different directions. The current model is in place to help the top of the conference, but, at the very least, the top teams were playing its best members twice and its worst ones once. And that holds up when you have three good teams, one or two okay ones, and the rest junk. But, it’s losing one of its best basketball members.

Standing at its new count still keeps this sense of the bottom of the conference. The top end gets some new blood. But, I could still see Gonzaga getting a little annoyed by the quality drop off when losing BYU.

Even if the WCC doesn’t replace BYU, Gonzaga may hold the conference “accountable” for more rigorous OOC scheduling. That is a big piece of what the WCC is going to miss with BYU leaving: that BYU would at least challenge themselves more than other members in the WCC in the front part of their seasons. The rest of the conference has to add to the overall common pot.
09-09-2021 03:43 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #28
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-08-2021 07:16 PM)esayem Wrote:  Why not add Seattle and give Gonzaga an easy home game there every season?

The last thing that Gonzaga wants is more easy WCC games. That’s why they have such a brutal non-conference schedule and demanded fewer conference games.

That being said, Seattle is probably the only one that makes any sense if the WCC *has* to add a team (and I’m not sure if they really have to do so). GCU has the for-profit stigma, although they do have solid athletic support and nice facilities in a key market. Denver is sort of the opposite where it’s actually an excellent academic school in another key market, but stunningly terrible at basketball. (There’s no reason why Denver should be that bad with the resources that it has.)
09-09-2021 08:00 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-09-2021 08:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 07:16 PM)esayem Wrote:  Why not add Seattle and give Gonzaga an easy home game there every season?

The last thing that Gonzaga wants is more easy WCC games. That’s why they have such a brutal non-conference schedule and demanded fewer conference games.

That being said, Seattle is probably the only one that makes any sense if the WCC *has* to add a team (and I’m not sure if they really have to do so). GCU has the for-profit stigma, although they do have solid athletic support and nice facilities in a key market. Denver is sort of the opposite where it’s actually an excellent academic school in another key market, but stunningly terrible at basketball. (There’s no reason why Denver should be that bad with the resources that it has.)

Frank - odd numbers are not a bad deal for the WCC. 9 schools puts the conference at a full round robin with 16 games which is what Gonzaga wants. I made a suggestion in an earlier post that a 9-school WCC could create a challenge with the Big West (11 schools) allowing the odd schools out to play each other during in-conference scheduling. I think it would work quite well.
09-09-2021 09:52 AM
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RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-09-2021 09:52 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(09-09-2021 08:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 07:16 PM)esayem Wrote:  Why not add Seattle and give Gonzaga an easy home game there every season?

The last thing that Gonzaga wants is more easy WCC games. That’s why they have such a brutal non-conference schedule and demanded fewer conference games.

That being said, Seattle is probably the only one that makes any sense if the WCC *has* to add a team (and I’m not sure if they really have to do so). GCU has the for-profit stigma, although they do have solid athletic support and nice facilities in a key market. Denver is sort of the opposite where it’s actually an excellent academic school in another key market, but stunningly terrible at basketball. (There’s no reason why Denver should be that bad with the resources that it has.)
I would argue Gonzaga does not want a full round robin

Having 10 teams allows the schedule to be manipulated so there are 2 teams (likely lower ranked teams) Gonzaga does not have to play twice. If there are only 9 teams Gonzaga is playing everyone twice and not ingenuity can occur to avoid rating killing schools

Frank - odd numbers are not a bad deal for the WCC. 9 schools puts the conference at a full round robin with 16 games which is what Gonzaga wants. I made a suggestion in an earlier post that a 9-school WCC could create a challenge with the Big West (11 schools) allowing the odd schools out to play each other during in-conference scheduling. I think it would work quite well.
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2021 09:58 AM by solohawks.)
09-09-2021 09:57 AM
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bluesox Offline
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Post: #31
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
Sounds like GCU would be a good pick up for the MWC to pair with Hawaii football only. I wonder what school GCU is eating students from for its growth, ASU?
09-09-2021 11:10 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
Yeah, I don’t get this thing about GCU’s attractiveness. Just because it is private doesn’t make it a like-minded institution. Or, being “Christian” and it being similar.

The rock and hard place is going to be taking on the likes of Seattle or Cal Baptist, who do little, or Denver, who is a great school, but blows the big one in the sport. Even in those AFA hypotheticals, were their football to move, you’re probably only adding the conference’s fourth or fifth best team if that.

If they could tolerate adding a public school, grab NMSU. You know they’re good for it.
09-09-2021 01:23 PM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #33
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
The WCC added Pacific after BYU

They aren't looking to score big TV money they are just looking for the best fit to provide them a small regional private school travel friendly conference
09-09-2021 01:35 PM
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esayem Online
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Post: #34
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-09-2021 08:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 07:16 PM)esayem Wrote:  Why not add Seattle and give Gonzaga an easy home game there every season?

The last thing that Gonzaga wants is more easy WCC games. That’s why they have such a brutal non-conference schedule and demanded fewer conference games.

That being said, Seattle is probably the only one that makes any sense if the WCC *has* to add a team (and I’m not sure if they really have to do so). GCU has the for-profit stigma, although they do have solid athletic support and nice facilities in a key market. Denver is sort of the opposite where it’s actually an excellent academic school in another key market, but stunningly terrible at basketball. (There’s no reason why Denver should be that bad with the resources that it has.)

An easy game in Seattle vs. an easy game in California or Phoenix?
09-09-2021 01:48 PM
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RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
WCC is going to do nothing. Sit at 9.

Gonzaga is going to watch. If Boise State takes the American (and possibly ESPN) bait for full membership and shakes loose schools like San Diego State and Colorado State to follow, then they'll probably stay put. But if Boise State says take a hike to the American and the MWC stands together, the Zags might seriously consider moving.

Boise State may take some months to ponder, as there are still a few rumors of Big 12 looking even for two more, and Boise State is one of the three schools tossed about in such rumors along with South Florida and Memphis. Personally I think this something down the road several years, but it might take a statement from the Big 12 to that affect to allow things to operate. Frankly it could also be a ploy to deliberately keep the AAC unstable for some months making them look weak while the Big 12 sucks up the positive attention.

Hum, as I think about it Boise State would want language in their contract that would allow an out without extra penalty should an autonomous conference invite them or if the TV contract distributions are below a certain dollar amount. That's not dissimilar to what Boise State and San Diego State did before with the Big East.
09-09-2021 03:27 PM
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JSchmack Offline
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Post: #36
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-09-2021 03:27 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  WCC is going to do nothing. Sit at 9.

Gonzaga is going to watch.

I agree 100%. They are definitely going to play two seasons with nine members. The first to see if they can make schedule everyone doesn't absolutely hate with nine, the second because they will have to have a second even if they decide they need a 10th.

Like myself and solohawks said, the WCC added Pacific because they solved a travel problem. Pacific ALWAYS fit institutionally with the WCC, they were founding members, left for football and wanted to come back from the time they dropped football in 1995 until they actually got back in.

The WCC might find themselves in the same situation as before; OR they might have come to grips with the fact that they're going to have split road trips to keep Gonzaga from bolting. Which is probably where they are now.
09-09-2021 05:10 PM
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solohawks Online
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RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
By having 10 teams and 16 game WCC schedule Gonzaga can try and avoid 2 games against WCC bottom feeders

Last year the two lowest NET teams were Portland (321) and San Diego (234). All other WCC teams were above 150. By losing BYU, Gonzaga is adding two terrible teams back on the schedule for a round robin instead of a 1 off

The more teams the WCC has the more options Gonzaga has to construct a conference schedule where bottom tier teams are only played once instead of 2x

If a 9 team WCC adds Seattle, Denver, and Cal Baptist, Gonzaga can play the top 5 teams 2x and the bottom 6 teams 1x to get 16 games

In a 10 team WCC with 16 games only the bottom 2 teams can be minimized to 1x per season

In a 9 team WCC you are playing everyone 2x

Now that Gonzaga has secured a 16 game cap on WCC games, it might be in their best interest to go to 12 games so Gonzaga can be in a pseudo division with the top 5 projected teams and only play the bottom 6 teams 1x

Hypothetical
Gonzaga Division
Gonzaga (1) St. Mary's (60) Pepperdine (94) Loyola (95) San Francisco (104) Pacific (123)

Other Division
Santa Clara (131) San Diego (234) Seattle (236) Cal Baptist (238) Portland (321) Denver (340)
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2021 06:13 PM by solohawks.)
09-09-2021 06:07 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #38
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-09-2021 09:52 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(09-09-2021 08:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 07:16 PM)esayem Wrote:  Why not add Seattle and give Gonzaga an easy home game there every season?

The last thing that Gonzaga wants is more easy WCC games. That’s why they have such a brutal non-conference schedule and demanded fewer conference games.

That being said, Seattle is probably the only one that makes any sense if the WCC *has* to add a team (and I’m not sure if they really have to do so). GCU has the for-profit stigma, although they do have solid athletic support and nice facilities in a key market. Denver is sort of the opposite where it’s actually an excellent academic school in another key market, but stunningly terrible at basketball. (There’s no reason why Denver should be that bad with the resources that it has.)

Frank - odd numbers are not a bad deal for the WCC. 9 schools puts the conference at a full round robin with 16 games which is what Gonzaga wants. I made a suggestion in an earlier post that a 9-school WCC could create a challenge with the Big West (11 schools) allowing the odd schools out to play each other during in-conference scheduling. I think it would work quite well.

I like that. I wonder how UC San Diego feels about playing WCC schools. WCC teams could fly into SD and play both the Torreros and Tritons.
09-09-2021 06:39 PM
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JSchmack Offline
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Post: #39
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
(09-09-2021 09:52 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I made a suggestion in an earlier post that a 9-school WCC could create a challenge with the Big West (11 schools) allowing the odd schools out to play each other during in-conference scheduling. I think it would work quite well.

There isn't a need for a WCC vs Big West challenge. I get what you mean, that with 16 conference games from Jan-March while everyone else is playing 18, IN THEORY, they would have an open week and 2 games to fill.

But that's not actually the the case for the WCC. The WCC Tournament starts on Thursday, 11 days before Selection Sunday. (They could start it on Friday now without BYU, since they don't have to skip Sunday anymore). The league also has a slot in the Hawai'i tournament over Christmas.

So they have one less week than any conference that starts their tourney during Championship Week. WCC regular season ended Feb. 27 last year, A10/MWC/Big East ended March 7.

Because of that, they were trying to cram in their 18 games in the amount of time you should really be playing 16 if Christmas falls on GOOD days of the week for basketball scheduling...

And if Christmas fell on the wrong day, it was taking away a weekend in December that Gonzaga could be playing OOC. So that meant (a) passing up opportunities for THAT WEEK, and (b) they had to play more OOC games closer together, and with them playing a national schedule as a marquee program, they had to pass up OTHER opportunities because they can't play at Arizona on Thursday and at Madison Square Garden on Saturday and expect to have legs.


It sounds like dropping from 16 to 18 was so Gonzaga could play more games against better competition and not hurt their RPI playing bad WCC teams. But really it was so they could play more games against better competition because of the CALENDAR more so than the WCC RPIs. And the change helped EVERYONE in the league, not just Gonzaga. The 5th place team went from 20-14 to 22-12 the first year they did it.
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2021 09:48 PM by JSchmack.)
09-09-2021 09:43 PM
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puck swami Offline
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Post: #40
RE: What does the West Coast Conference do?
While Denver's basketball is poor today, there is a now new coach (from Stanford) and there is nowhere to go but up.

There are a lot of positives that Denver brings to the WCC table:

SCHOOL:
-US News top 100 National University in 2020 (#80)
-6,000 undergrad, 7,000 grad students – WCC size
-Endowment — $700-800 million – WCC size
-Private, Methodist past, founded 1864 (similar to WCC privates)

MARKET & MEDIA
-Fast -growing top 17 TV market, with metro area population of 3 million
-Denver is an affluent, upscale, top-rated white collar city that will be attractive to WCC schools’ recruiting efforts for athletes and regular students
-Easy access, large airport with non-stop flights to most WCC cities
-TV relationship with Altitude Sports in Rocky Mountain Region, available nationally on satellite

DU ATHLETICS:
-Top ranked non-football athletic dept in America for the last 11 of last 12 years (NACDA points)
-96% athletic graduation rate
-Hoops budget of around $3 million
-Denver has NCAA Tourney level programs in nine WCC sports – M/W Swimming, M/W Tennis, M/WGolf, M/WSoccer, W Volleyball
-Average athletic dept GPA of 3.5/3.6
-DU has offered travel expense incentives in the past to the WCC
-$35+ million athletic budget/yr
-All DU sports facilities under 23 years old and high level
-Basketball facilities due for an upgrade, WCC entrance will help funding
-33 NCAA Titles (8 hockey, 24 Skiing, 1 lacrosse (all in sports not in the WCC)
-DU Student athletes stay out of trouble
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2021 08:06 PM by puck swami.)
09-10-2021 08:05 PM
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