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Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
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gulfcoastgal Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-07-2021 07:00 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  "Moreover, the school’s contract with the Big Ten is secret — Rutgers conceded it does not even maintain a copy of the agreement, adding to the lack of transparency."
04-jawdrop What!? This can’t be true. I mean it can, but that’s really really inexcusable, negligent even.
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2021 06:58 AM by gulfcoastgal.)
09-08-2021 06:56 AM
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Kyle Mack Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-07-2021 08:48 PM)thrill_house Wrote:  Perhaps Rutgers should stop kicking kids out of virtual classes for being unvaccinated if revenue is a concern.

https://nypost.com/2021/09/07/rutgers-ba...l-classes/

For a minute there I thought that might have been the Babylon Bee. Wow.
09-08-2021 06:59 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-07-2021 10:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  So this is New Jersey and people think it's unusual a mere $265m vanished? I mean Jimmy Hoffa vanished too. 04-coffee

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09-08-2021 07:33 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
I honestly don’t know what to think of that bit about there being no copy of the conference contract. And the details about money/loans from that source, propped up by mostly public institutions themselves, helping out.

Just, unbelievable.
09-08-2021 09:40 AM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
"Yet even as ticket sales have declined by 53% since 2015..."

What happened in 2015? Oh yeah, that's right, that's the season after Rutgers left the AAC. It's interesting that the slide in ticket sales corresponded to Rutgers leaving what was left of the BE, abandoning the last of it's traditional rivalries and relationships. Yes, the coaching situation and losing had a lot to do with it too, but I cannot help but think the abandoning of the relationships and rivalries built up over the previous 8 years (and longer) had a lot to do with it as well.

Not that I think Rutgers made a "bad" move, per se... But it should be something of a cautionary tale (I say this as my own favorite school is getting ready to jump conferences) that, in leaving a Conference where you have built-up history for a "new" conference, you cannot take your fans for granted. Especially in College Football, where the rivalries and histories are what CFB fans subsist on for 3/4 of the year.
09-08-2021 10:14 AM
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ccd494 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-08-2021 06:37 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 08:32 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  This has been my point whenever people asked for realignment's biggest losers- Rutgers is on the list.

Great, you have millions more in revenues, but you need to spend even more millions to try to be competitive. Being in a G5 conference, spending $20M and making $15M, and winning 6-8 games a year is preferable to being P5, spending $80M to make $60M, and winning 2-4 games a year.

I disagree entirely. IMO Rutgers is basically the biggest winner. This is a school with poor athletics and it was elevated from the G-ranks (as the rump Big East was surely going to be a G) to the most lucrative conference at the time, the B1G. That's a better deal anyone else got.

Way, way better to be a bumbler in the B1G than a shining star in a G-league. Infinitely better, IMO.

I dunno, taking out a mortgage you can't afford to move into a neighborhood with millionaires doesn't make you a millionaire. It just hastens your bankruptcy.

The Big Ten may be lucrative, but if Rutgers still needs to spend more on athletics than it reaps from the Big Ten media deal, and it doesn't have the fan support it used to, and it doesn't win games? What the heck is the point?
09-08-2021 10:25 AM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
Something about grass and the color green.........
09-08-2021 10:26 AM
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Pervis_Griffith Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-08-2021 10:14 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  "Yet even as ticket sales have declined by 53% since 2015..."

What happened in 2015? Oh yeah, that's right, that's the season after Rutgers left the AAC. It's interesting that the slide in ticket sales corresponded to Rutgers leaving what was left of the BE, abandoning the last of it's traditional rivalries and relationships. Yes, the coaching situation and losing had a lot to do with it too, but I cannot help but think the abandoning of the relationships and rivalries built up over the previous 8 years (and longer) had a lot to do with it as well.

Not that I think Rutgers made a "bad" move, per se... But it should be something of a cautionary tale (I say this as my own favorite school is getting ready to jump conferences) that, in leaving a Conference where you have built-up history for a "new" conference, you cannot take your fans for granted. Especially in College Football, where the rivalries and histories are what CFB fans subsist on for 3/4 of the year.


This is a reach.

You're advocating staying in the Big East/American versus joining the Big Ten --- Just to maintain rivalries which were going away as those rivals jumped to other leagues around you. Syracuse, Boston College, West Virginia, Louisville, Pittsburgh ... all had bolted or were soon to bolt.

Choosing to stay would have been a worse decision than the series of financial decisions outlined in the article kicking off this thread.
09-08-2021 10:32 AM
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Pervis_Griffith Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-08-2021 10:25 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 06:37 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 08:32 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  This has been my point whenever people asked for realignment's biggest losers- Rutgers is on the list.

Great, you have millions more in revenues, but you need to spend even more millions to try to be competitive. Being in a G5 conference, spending $20M and making $15M, and winning 6-8 games a year is preferable to being P5, spending $80M to make $60M, and winning 2-4 games a year.

I disagree entirely. IMO Rutgers is basically the biggest winner. This is a school with poor athletics and it was elevated from the G-ranks (as the rump Big East was surely going to be a G) to the most lucrative conference at the time, the B1G. That's a better deal anyone else got.

Way, way better to be a bumbler in the B1G than a shining star in a G-league. Infinitely better, IMO.

I dunno, taking out a mortgage you can't afford to move into a neighborhood with millionaires doesn't make you a millionaire. It just hastens your bankruptcy.

The Big Ten may be lucrative, but if Rutgers still needs to spend more on athletics than it reaps from the Big Ten media deal, and it doesn't have the fan support it used to, and it doesn't win games? What the heck is the point?


But in this situation, the neighborhood of millionaires is paying gobs and gobs of money just to move in. So your analogy doesn't really work.
09-08-2021 10:34 AM
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ccd494 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-08-2021 10:32 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 10:14 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  "Yet even as ticket sales have declined by 53% since 2015..."

What happened in 2015? Oh yeah, that's right, that's the season after Rutgers left the AAC. It's interesting that the slide in ticket sales corresponded to Rutgers leaving what was left of the BE, abandoning the last of it's traditional rivalries and relationships. Yes, the coaching situation and losing had a lot to do with it too, but I cannot help but think the abandoning of the relationships and rivalries built up over the previous 8 years (and longer) had a lot to do with it as well.

Not that I think Rutgers made a "bad" move, per se... But it should be something of a cautionary tale (I say this as my own favorite school is getting ready to jump conferences) that, in leaving a Conference where you have built-up history for a "new" conference, you cannot take your fans for granted. Especially in College Football, where the rivalries and histories are what CFB fans subsist on for 3/4 of the year.


This is a reach.

You're advocating staying in the Big East/American versus joining the Big Ten --- Just to maintain rivalries which were going away as those rivals jumped to other leagues around you. Syracuse, Boston College, West Virginia, Louisville, Pittsburgh ... all had bolted or were soon to bolt.

Choosing to stay would have been a worse decision than the series of financial decisions outlined in the article kicking off this thread.

While Rutgers did not have the opportunity to stay in a league with longtime rivals, I think it is a reasonable point to make that the widespread shakeups and realignment of the past two decades have had a noticeable negative effect on fan interest.

Schools are making business decisions based upon how much money they can bring in. Unfortunately for them, fans outside of this message board do not really root for a school's bank account.
09-08-2021 10:39 AM
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ccd494 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-08-2021 10:34 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 10:25 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 06:37 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 08:32 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  This has been my point whenever people asked for realignment's biggest losers- Rutgers is on the list.

Great, you have millions more in revenues, but you need to spend even more millions to try to be competitive. Being in a G5 conference, spending $20M and making $15M, and winning 6-8 games a year is preferable to being P5, spending $80M to make $60M, and winning 2-4 games a year.

I disagree entirely. IMO Rutgers is basically the biggest winner. This is a school with poor athletics and it was elevated from the G-ranks (as the rump Big East was surely going to be a G) to the most lucrative conference at the time, the B1G. That's a better deal anyone else got.

Way, way better to be a bumbler in the B1G than a shining star in a G-league. Infinitely better, IMO.

I dunno, taking out a mortgage you can't afford to move into a neighborhood with millionaires doesn't make you a millionaire. It just hastens your bankruptcy.

The Big Ten may be lucrative, but if Rutgers still needs to spend more on athletics than it reaps from the Big Ten media deal, and it doesn't have the fan support it used to, and it doesn't win games? What the heck is the point?


But in this situation, the neighborhood of millionaires is paying gobs and gobs of money just to move in. So your analogy doesn't really work.

Are they? No one has seen the contract. Obviously they aren't paying Rutgers enough to not lose nine figures.
09-08-2021 10:40 AM
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BigEastMike Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-07-2021 10:00 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  So this is New Jersey and people think it's unusual a mere $265m vanished? I mean Jimmy Hoffa vanished too. 04-coffee

Haha to be fair Hoffa disappeared in Michigan
09-08-2021 10:41 AM
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BigEastMike Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-08-2021 10:14 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  "Yet even as ticket sales have declined by 53% since 2015..."

What happened in 2015? Oh yeah, that's right, that's the season after Rutgers left the AAC. It's interesting that the slide in ticket sales corresponded to Rutgers leaving what was left of the BE, abandoning the last of it's traditional rivalries and relationships. Yes, the coaching situation and losing had a lot to do with it too, but I cannot help but think the abandoning of the relationships and rivalries built up over the previous 8 years (and longer) had a lot to do with it as well.

Not that I think Rutgers made a "bad" move, per se... But it should be something of a cautionary tale (I say this as my own favorite school is getting ready to jump conferences) that, in leaving a Conference where you have built-up history for a "new" conference, you cannot take your fans for granted. Especially in College Football, where the rivalries and histories are what CFB fans subsist on for 3/4 of the year.

Rutgers didn’t abandon it’s BE rivals, they abandoned Rutgers. RU went to a league with two new regional rivals.
09-08-2021 10:44 AM
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BigEastMike Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-08-2021 10:40 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 10:34 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 10:25 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 06:37 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 08:32 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  This has been my point whenever people asked for realignment's biggest losers- Rutgers is on the list.

Great, you have millions more in revenues, but you need to spend even more millions to try to be competitive. Being in a G5 conference, spending $20M and making $15M, and winning 6-8 games a year is preferable to being P5, spending $80M to make $60M, and winning 2-4 games a year.

I disagree entirely. IMO Rutgers is basically the biggest winner. This is a school with poor athletics and it was elevated from the G-ranks (as the rump Big East was surely going to be a G) to the most lucrative conference at the time, the B1G. That's a better deal anyone else got.

Way, way better to be a bumbler in the B1G than a shining star in a G-league. Infinitely better, IMO.

I dunno, taking out a mortgage you can't afford to move into a neighborhood with millionaires doesn't make you a millionaire. It just hastens your bankruptcy.

The Big Ten may be lucrative, but if Rutgers still needs to spend more on athletics than it reaps from the Big Ten media deal, and it doesn't have the fan support it used to, and it doesn't win games? What the heck is the point?


But in this situation, the neighborhood of millionaires is paying gobs and gobs of money just to move in. So your analogy doesn't really work.

Are they? No one has seen the contract. Obviously they aren't paying Rutgers enough to not lose nine figures.

They still are t getting a full share yet and upgraded facilities and had to buy out two bad coaches contracts.
09-08-2021 10:48 AM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-08-2021 10:32 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 10:14 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  "Yet even as ticket sales have declined by 53% since 2015..."

What happened in 2015? Oh yeah, that's right, that's the season after Rutgers left the AAC. It's interesting that the slide in ticket sales corresponded to Rutgers leaving what was left of the BE, abandoning the last of it's traditional rivalries and relationships. Yes, the coaching situation and losing had a lot to do with it too, but I cannot help but think the abandoning of the relationships and rivalries built up over the previous 8 years (and longer) had a lot to do with it as well.

Not that I think Rutgers made a "bad" move, per se... But it should be something of a cautionary tale (I say this as my own favorite school is getting ready to jump conferences) that, in leaving a Conference where you have built-up history for a "new" conference, you cannot take your fans for granted. Especially in College Football, where the rivalries and histories are what CFB fans subsist on for 3/4 of the year.


This is a reach.

You're advocating staying in the Big East/American versus joining the Big Ten --- Just to maintain rivalries which were going away as those rivals jumped to other leagues around you. Syracuse, Boston College, West Virginia, Louisville, Pittsburgh ... all had bolted or were soon to bolt.

Choosing to stay would have been a worse decision than the series of financial decisions outlined in the article kicking off this thread.

Apparently you missed the point where I said: "Not that I think Rutgers made a "bad" move, per se..." I am no fan of the AAC and I am glad that "my team" seems to be on the verge of getting out of it. But when you jump out of a conference where you have "history" to a wholly new conference, the fans suffer. It takes time to build up new rivalries and history...it's probably a "bad" time (sometimes you don't have a choice) to raise ticket prices, suffer turmoil in the AD and coaching staffs, or do other things that make it harder for the fans to "get into" being fans.
09-08-2021 11:00 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-08-2021 11:00 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 10:32 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 10:14 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  "Yet even as ticket sales have declined by 53% since 2015..."

What happened in 2015? Oh yeah, that's right, that's the season after Rutgers left the AAC. It's interesting that the slide in ticket sales corresponded to Rutgers leaving what was left of the BE, abandoning the last of it's traditional rivalries and relationships. Yes, the coaching situation and losing had a lot to do with it too, but I cannot help but think the abandoning of the relationships and rivalries built up over the previous 8 years (and longer) had a lot to do with it as well.

Not that I think Rutgers made a "bad" move, per se... But it should be something of a cautionary tale (I say this as my own favorite school is getting ready to jump conferences) that, in leaving a Conference where you have built-up history for a "new" conference, you cannot take your fans for granted. Especially in College Football, where the rivalries and histories are what CFB fans subsist on for 3/4 of the year.


This is a reach.

You're advocating staying in the Big East/American versus joining the Big Ten --- Just to maintain rivalries which were going away as those rivals jumped to other leagues around you. Syracuse, Boston College, West Virginia, Louisville, Pittsburgh ... all had bolted or were soon to bolt.

Choosing to stay would have been a worse decision than the series of financial decisions outlined in the article kicking off this thread.

Apparently you missed the point where I said: "Not that I think Rutgers made a "bad" move, per se..." I am no fan of the AAC and I am glad that "my team" seems to be on the verge of getting out of it. But when you jump out of a conference where you have "history" to a wholly new conference, the fans suffer. It takes time to build up new rivalries and history...it's probably a "bad" time (sometimes you don't have a choice) to raise ticket prices, suffer turmoil in the AD and coaching staffs, or do other things that make it harder for the fans to "get into" being fans.

What rivals were left had they stayed?
09-08-2021 11:04 AM
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BigEastMike Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-08-2021 11:00 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 10:32 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 10:14 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  "Yet even as ticket sales have declined by 53% since 2015..."

What happened in 2015? Oh yeah, that's right, that's the season after Rutgers left the AAC. It's interesting that the slide in ticket sales corresponded to Rutgers leaving what was left of the BE, abandoning the last of it's traditional rivalries and relationships. Yes, the coaching situation and losing had a lot to do with it too, but I cannot help but think the abandoning of the relationships and rivalries built up over the previous 8 years (and longer) had a lot to do with it as well.

Not that I think Rutgers made a "bad" move, per se... But it should be something of a cautionary tale (I say this as my own favorite school is getting ready to jump conferences) that, in leaving a Conference where you have built-up history for a "new" conference, you cannot take your fans for granted. Especially in College Football, where the rivalries and histories are what CFB fans subsist on for 3/4 of the year.


This is a reach.

You're advocating staying in the Big East/American versus joining the Big Ten --- Just to maintain rivalries which were going away as those rivals jumped to other leagues around you. Syracuse, Boston College, West Virginia, Louisville, Pittsburgh ... all had bolted or were soon to bolt.

Choosing to stay would have been a worse decision than the series of financial decisions outlined in the article kicking off this thread.

Apparently you missed the point where I said: "Not that I think Rutgers made a "bad" move, per se..." I am no fan of the AAC and I am glad that "my team" seems to be on the verge of getting out of it. But when you jump out of a conference where you have "history" to a wholly new conference, the fans suffer. It takes time to build up new rivalries and history...it's probably a "bad" time (sometimes you don't have a choice) to raise ticket prices, suffer turmoil in the AD and coaching staffs, or do other things that make it harder for the fans to "get into" being fans.

They didn’t leave any rivals. 12 schools have ever played FB under the BE banner. Rutgers was the 7th to leave with the 8 hot on their heels. Since then 2 more have left. So only USF and Temple played in a conference with Rutgers who are still there. Fans would have left the fan base even faster and would have never come back if that happened. Rutgers also has beaten everyone in their division in the B1G except for Ohio St and Penn St
09-08-2021 11:16 AM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
The B1G doesn't care about Rutgers, Maryland, or their finances. They were added based on the cable model. The B1G gets the same amount of money when games are played in those states. It doesn't matter if there are 5 or 50,000 people in the stands.

Another benefit to adding Maryland was the possibility of causing a crack in the ACC.
09-08-2021 11:17 AM
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PicksUp Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
What happened in 2015? They started to lose more games than they won! So they went back to sucking.
09-08-2021 11:20 AM
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BigEastMike Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Rutgers $265M Debt to Be in the B1G
(09-08-2021 11:20 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  What happened in 2015? They started to lose more games than they won! So they went back to sucking.

Exactly, if Schiano can get them to 6 or 7 wins most years that’s a success for that program. Most of you wouldn’t think it is but for a school who spent years mired in not mediocrity but awfulness being a decent team in a great league is a win.

They also have been scheduling local rivals like Temple, Syracuse and BC in OOC games.
09-08-2021 11:42 AM
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