Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
2021 football coaching carousel
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
johncatworth Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 295
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation: 7
I Root For: UT, UVA, Rice
Location: Virginia
Post: #21
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
My view on the bolded question is that it’s quite possible - especially but not exclusively for an older coach. Larry Coker was in a similar place, fired by Miami, and came back to take the UTSA job. An older example is Schnellenberger taking the FAU job. As a somewhat younger example Mike London was fired by Virginia and took the HC job at Howard, then William and Mary. So definitely possible.
10-05-2021 04:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
franklyconfused Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 732
Joined: Nov 2015
Reputation: 14
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #22
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
(10-05-2021 04:42 PM)johncatworth Wrote:  My view on the bolded question is that it’s quite possible - especially but not exclusively for an older coach. Larry Coker was in a similar place, fired by Miami, and came back to take the UTSA job. An older example is Schnellenberger taking the FAU job. As a somewhat younger example Mike London was fired by Virginia and took the HC job at Howard, then William and Mary. So definitely possible.

Did any of those work out well enough to justify replicating?
  • Coker: 22-26; two winning seasons (unfortunately no bowls because they were the first two reclassifying years for UTSA).
  • Schnellenberger: 41-56, three winning seasons and two bowls. His best year at FAU was his first, so also the reclassifying problem cost a bowl.
  • London: 11-10 in two years at Howard. 9-10 so far at W&M. His one winning season was his first at Howard. Never ranked.
I don't see a compelling reason to hire someone in those circumstances. "Man who can't lead a modern team with a bigger budget" doesn't strike me as the archetype to succeed at Rice. If we were somehow caught up in a scandal and needed someone to come in to right the ship, like what Jim Grobe did for Baylor when they fired Briles, that's one thing, but what we probably need is a person who is so efficient with resources that they would succeed at a relatively disadvantaged P5 school, like Matt Campbell at Iowa State, but who hasn't yet been given the opportunity (so we can afford them). Those guys are few and far between.
10-05-2021 05:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Owl 69/70/75 Online
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 72,287
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 2280
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #23
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
If we are talking about the Rice job, I think the considerations need to be more qualitative than quantitative. Questions that I think should be asked of any Rice coaching candidate:

1) What needs to be changed to enable Rice to field a consistently winning football team (say, 9 wins per year)?
2) How successful would you expect to be if those changes were made?
3) How would you go about building a winning program if those changes are not made?
4) What is your philosophy of winning football?

A coach who does not have good answers for those questions up front should not be hired.
10-05-2021 08:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Owl 69/70/75 Online
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 72,287
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 2280
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #24
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
(10-05-2021 04:42 PM)johncatworth Wrote:  Did any of those work out well enough to justify replicating?
  • Coker: 22-26; two winning seasons (unfortunately no bowls because they were the first two reclassifying years for UTSA).
  • Schnellenberger: 41-56, three winning seasons and two bowls. His best year at FAU was his first, so also the reclassifying problem cost a bowl.
  • London: 11-10 in two years at Howard. 9-10 so far at W&M. His one winning season was his first at Howard. Never ranked.

Of course, how do those compare with the last 7 years of Rice football: 5-7, 3-9, 1-11, 2-11, 3-9, 2-3, 2-3, total 18-53?
10-05-2021 08:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MerseyOwl Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,103
Joined: Aug 2006
Reputation: 32
I Root For: The Blue & Gray
Location: Land of Dull Skies
Post: #25
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
(10-05-2021 08:46 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  If we are talking about the Rice job, I think the considerations need to be more qualitative than quantitative. Questions that I think should be asked of any Rice coaching candidate:

1) What needs to be changed to enable Rice to field a consistently winning football team (say, 9 wins per year)?
2) How successful would you expect to be if those changes were made?
3) How would you go about building a winning program if those changes are not made?
4) What is your philosophy of winning football?

A coach who does not have good answers for those questions up front should not be hired.

We need to find the questions the search committee used when they hired DB. I remember one committee person said (verbatim as much as I can remember), "He knocked our socks off."

Based on DB's results I believe they asked him the wrong questions. Although there may be an alternative explanation: Some organisations require a different skill set for selection and/or promotion than they do for the actual job. As such experience and job history, including results, are overlooked by design.
10-06-2021 06:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WRCisforgotten79 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,230
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 53
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #26
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
One problem is that any outsider applying for the job will have no idea of the degree of mismanagement and incompetence within the football operations (and athletic department). The correct questions need to be prepared by those "in the know". Otherwise, you'll get generic questions that will permit an applicant to give "amazing" answers that don't deal with the reality at Rice.
10-06-2021 08:22 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ExcitedOwl18 Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,662
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 63
I Root For: Rice
Location: New York
Post: #27
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
(10-06-2021 08:22 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  One problem is that any outsider applying for the job will have no idea of the degree of mismanagement and incompetence within the football operations (and athletic department). The correct questions need to be prepared by those "in the know". Otherwise, you'll get generic questions that will permit an applicant to give "amazing" answers that don't deal with the reality at Rice.

I think Jerry Pickle does a pretty good job in his DFO role. Tries to make chicken salad out of chicken **** out of the budgets he’s given (or at least he did when I was involved in the program during the Bailiff years).
10-06-2021 08:28 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Tiki Owl Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 20,415
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 113
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: Tiki Island

The Parliament AwardsCrappiesNew Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #28
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
(10-05-2021 04:42 PM)johncatworth Wrote:  My view on the bolded question is that it’s quite possible - especially but not exclusively for an older coach. Larry Coker was in a similar place, fired by Miami, and came back to take the UTSA job. An older example is Schnellenberger taking the FAU job. As a somewhat younger example Mike London was fired by Virginia and took the HC job at Howard, then William and Mary. So definitely possible.

Frank Solich is the best example.

1998–2003: Nebraska

2005–2020: Ohio
10-06-2021 08:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ExcitedOwl18 Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,662
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 63
I Root For: Rice
Location: New York
Post: #29
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
(10-06-2021 08:22 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  One problem is that any outsider applying for the job will have no idea of the degree of mismanagement and incompetence within the football operations (and athletic department). The correct questions need to be prepared by those "in the know". Otherwise, you'll get generic questions that will permit an applicant to give "amazing" answers that don't deal with the reality at Rice.

I think Jerry Pickle does a pretty good job in his DFO role. Tries to make chicken salad out of chicken **** out of the budgets he’s given (or at least he did when I was involved in the program during the Bailiff years).
10-06-2021 09:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Owl 69/70/75 Online
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 72,287
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 2280
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #30
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
(10-06-2021 08:57 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  
(10-05-2021 04:42 PM)johncatworth Wrote:  My view on the bolded question is that it’s quite possible - especially but not exclusively for an older coach. Larry Coker was in a similar place, fired by Miami, and came back to take the UTSA job. An older example is Schnellenberger taking the FAU job. As a somewhat younger example Mike London was fired by Virginia and took the HC job at Howard, then William and Mary. So definitely possible.
Frank Solich is the best example.
1998–2003: Nebraska
2005–2020: Ohio

I wonder how many times Husker fans have wished they had him back.
10-06-2021 10:12 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
illiniowl Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,134
Joined: Dec 2006
Reputation: 77
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #31
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
Coach O sent packing less than 2 years after winning the national title and the morning after an upset win over ranked Florida (will finish out the season at LSU, though)
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2021 12:23 PM by illiniowl.)
10-17-2021 12:20 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fort Bend Owl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 26,416
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 382
I Root For: An easy win
Location:

The Parliament Awards
Post: #32
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
Wow, that's a bit of a shocker (especially coming right on the heels of that Florida win). Earlier this week, the Baton Rouge paper had an article that mentioned Orgeron is the 2nd highest paid coach in college football (behind Nick Saban), and USA Today estimated his buyout would be more than 17 million dollars.

It looks like Mel Tucker (Michigan State head coach, was an assistant for one year at LSU under Saban) might become the front-runner for that job.
10-17-2021 12:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
westsidewolf1989 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,633
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation: 68
I Root For: Rice
Location:
Post: #33
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
(10-17-2021 12:40 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Wow, that's a bit of a shocker (especially coming right on the heels of that Florida win). Earlier this week, the Baton Rouge paper had an article that mentioned Orgeron is the 2nd highest paid coach in college football (behind Nick Saban), and USA Today estimated his buyout would be more than 17 million dollars.

It looks like Mel Tucker (Michigan State head coach, was an assistant for one year at LSU under Saban) might become the front-runner for that job.

I'd say either him or Dave Aranda or Joe Brady. If Aranda goes to LSU, I'd look for Traylor to bounce from UTSA to Baylor.
10-17-2021 12:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Tiki Owl Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 20,415
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 113
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: Tiki Island

The Parliament AwardsCrappiesNew Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #34
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
(10-17-2021 12:20 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Coach O sent packing less than 2 years after winning the national title and the morning after an upset win over ranked Florida (will finish out the season at LSU, though)

Apparently he was added to a Title IX suit.
10-17-2021 12:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
elw4796 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,548
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 33
I Root For: Rice
Location:
Post: #35
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
(10-17-2021 12:50 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  
(10-17-2021 12:20 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Coach O sent packing less than 2 years after winning the national title and the morning after an upset win over ranked Florida (will finish out the season at LSU, though)

Apparently he was added to a Title IX suit.

Evidently it went beyond just the sexual misconduct investigations/cases. See this excerpt from The Athletic, for example:

https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/statu...7497086978
10-17-2021 01:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
illiniowl Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,134
Joined: Dec 2006
Reputation: 77
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #36
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
Washington State fires Nick Rolovich for failing to comply with vax mandate.
10-18-2021 07:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WRCisforgotten79 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,230
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 53
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #37
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
Matt Wells out at Texas Tech - 8 games into his 3rd season. Sonny Cumbie will be interim. Likely targets are Dykes of SMU and Traylor of UTSA.
10-25-2021 01:08 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WRCisforgotten79 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,230
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 53
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #38
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
Wells was 5-3 this season and 13-17 overall. He was only #38 on the Coaches Hot Seat. I have to wonder if there's something else that we don't know about.
10-25-2021 01:13 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fort Bend Owl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 26,416
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 382
I Root For: An easy win
Location:

The Parliament Awards
Post: #39
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
They were 2-3 in the Big 12 and finish with OU, Iowa State, Oklahoma State and Baylor. Wells was 7-16 overall in Big 12 games. I doubt there is anything going on other than they aren't happy with how they have done in conference games.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2021 01:51 PM by Fort Bend Owl.)
10-25-2021 01:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
franklyconfused Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 732
Joined: Nov 2015
Reputation: 14
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #40
RE: 2021 football coaching carousel
Not to mention what the quality of their wins this year are. Best by far was @ Houston. Their other four are vs. SFA (one score), vs. FIU, @ WVU (one score), and @ Kansas. I'd say the near embarrassment by SFA offsets the quality of the UH game.
10-25-2021 02:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 4 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2021 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2021 MyBB Group.