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(09-06-2021 11:56 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-06-2021 11:44 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Working with what we have is unacceptable and completely untenable for the health of the athletic program. This is not the time to settle. Radical change is needed if we do not get an AAC invite. AAC is the only lifeline in the current landscape. If that does not happen, then we have to do whatever we can to make our situation better now, because there will be no other opportunities coming. If that means Indy for football and find a better place for basketball, so be it. If that means blowing up CUSA, and taking a group of it's schools in a split, then let's lead the charge. This situation is critical and staying in CUSA as it is currently structured, even with a more regional split, whatever that means, is not acceptable.

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Short of an AAC invite, the only better place for MBB is the A10. That is absolutely not an option. Charlotte, WKU, ODU, UAB, and Marshall is a fairly good core for MBB. Where would you "place" (like delusional JMU posters, we cannot just place MBB anywhere w/o an invite) MBB otherwise?

What schools would "we" take with us? It is not likely that a Sun Belt program will be interested. nor any MAC or AAC schools.
Marshall and Charlotte? Short of a P5 or AAC invite, I think WKU, UAB, and MTSU are fairly settled. so we are back to CUSA East, which I think is a fairly realistic option.

The problem is Monarchblue is assuming that at least 2 of that “good core” is going to be off to the AAC and if ODU isn’t one of them there is nothing left. At some point Indy football becomes the better option even if we have to park basketball in the CAA for awhile. It could shake out where the closest school left in CUSA is FAU. That is not acceptable.


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(09-07-2021 05:51 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(09-06-2021 11:56 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-06-2021 11:44 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Working with what we have is unacceptable and completely untenable for the health of the athletic program. This is not the time to settle. Radical change is needed if we do not get an AAC invite. AAC is the only lifeline in the current landscape. If that does not happen, then we have to do whatever we can to make our situation better now, because there will be no other opportunities coming. If that means Indy for football and find a better place for basketball, so be it. If that means blowing up CUSA, and taking a group of it's schools in a split, then let's lead the charge. This situation is critical and staying in CUSA as it is currently structured, even with a more regional split, whatever that means, is not acceptable.

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Short of an AAC invite, the only better place for MBB is the A10. That is absolutely not an option. Charlotte, WKU, ODU, UAB, and Marshall is a fairly good core for MBB. Where would you "place" (like delusional JMU posters, we cannot just place MBB anywhere w/o an invite) MBB otherwise?

What schools would "we" take with us? It is not likely that a Sun Belt program will be interested. nor any MAC or AAC schools.
Marshall and Charlotte? Short of a P5 or AAC invite, I think WKU, UAB, and MTSU are fairly settled. so we are back to CUSA East, which I think is a fairly realistic option.

The problem is Monarchblue is assuming that at least 2 of that “good core” is going to be off to the AAC and if ODU isn’t one of them there is nothing left. At some point Indy football becomes the better option even if we have to park basketball in the CAA for awhile. It could shake out where the closest school left in CUSA is FAU. That is not acceptable.


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You are not serious.....

We cannot just "park" in a conference of our choosing, we have to be invited.
There is no indication that the CAA would accept us back in basketball, especially knowing that we could leave at anytime.

So, that would mean that Marshall, WKU, MTSU, Charlotte, and UAB all left.....for somewhare (they are not ALL going to the AAC).

(09-06-2021 07:42 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(09-06-2021 11:56 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-06-2021 11:44 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Working with what we have is unacceptable and completely untenable for the health of the athletic program. This is not the time to settle. Radical change is needed if we do not get an AAC invite. AAC is the only lifeline in the current landscape. If that does not happen, then we have to do whatever we can to make our situation better now, because there will be no other opportunities coming. If that means Indy for football and find a better place for basketball, so be it. If that means blowing up CUSA, and taking a group of it's schools in a split, then let's lead the charge. This situation is critical and staying in CUSA as it is currently structured, even with a more regional split, whatever that means, is not acceptable.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Short of an AAC invite, the only better place for MBB is the A10. That is absolutely not an option. Charlotte, WKU, ODU, UAB, and Marshall is a fairly good core for MBB. Where would you "place" (like delusional JMU posters, we cannot just place MBB anywhere w/o an invite) MBB otherwise?

What schools would "we" take with us? It is not likely that a Sun Belt program will be interested. nor any MAC or AAC schools.
Marshall and Charlotte? Short of a P5 or AAC invite, I think WKU, UAB, and MTSU are fairly settled. so we are back to CUSA East, which I think is a fairly realistic option.

I didn't say it was easy. I said it is critical that it happen.

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Why is it critical?

Surely not travel expenses. In 2019/2020 that was only like 6.1 percent of the total ODU athletic budget for ALL sports. Not ideal but there is not likely any FBS conference that is any better for anyone in that respect, except maybe the MAC?

Our 'down' football program is not the result of being in CUSA. We are not at a disadvantage as compared to any other CUSA program in any respect except for not having an indoor practice facility (some do, most don't). That issue, however would exist in any conference including the AAC and the proposed mythical Eastern G5 Conference.


Men's Basketball? Let's compare CUSA to CAA.

CAA
Oliver Purnell went 57-23 (.713) in three seasons with 3 post season appearances and all three winning seasons

Jeff Capel went 122-98 (.555) with 3 post season appearances in 7 years, including 3 losing seasons.

Blaine Taylor 242-149 (.618) in 11 years with 8 post season appearances, including 3 losing seasons.

CUSA
JJ has gone 130-75 (.634) in 7 seasons with 4 post season appearances and no losing seasons.

I don't see huge differences here. One might compare the merits or lack thereof with the different post season tournements, but there is certainly not enough disparity to declare it critical that we get out of CUSA.
The results over the decades seem to me to be more about coaches than the conference; as it often is in any sport anywhere.

I have no insider information or nothing, but was speculating on the AAC board about ideas where ODU would be included. I first had an idea that involved ODU, UAB, Marshall, and Rice. But that put UAB in the east, with the closest division-mate being Marshall at 7:44 hours. Which isn't ideal. You could have permanent rivals to get UAB to play Memphis every year, but there weren't a ton of other natural cross-division rivals, and Tulane was still closer to UAB than Marshall was. So I added App St and removed Rice to see what that looked like, and I thought it looked pretty good. Nice Mid-Atlantic pocket, and good Southwestern presence. Sucked for USF but unless one of the F_U's were added or Georgia St (which is still 6:20 hours away) then USF wasn't going to get a ton of help anyways.

I also made a couple of maps to visualize these potential ideas. Blue is east division, red is west division, yellow is Wichita State, and Orange is Navy (west division)

B_T's AAC with Rice


B_T's AAC without Rice


I think either of these would be pretty ideal setups for ODU, just wonder if it'll come to fruition or not.

I would be very surprised if App would consier the AAC w/o it's big three,. App has natural rivals in the SBC, and quite frankly the SBC will likely be a better football conference than the AAC. App has shown little incination to be a basketball power.

In fact, based on what appears to be improvement within CUSA football it may very well be that CUSA is also stronger in football than the AAC. once all this plays out

I mean you can replace App with Charlotte and get basically the same result, but I do think that App would leave GSU and GS to share a conference with Marshall and ECU. Outside of App St, Ulala, and Coastal who's the next best football program? Arkansas State? Troy? The top is very good but the bottom (Tx St, ULM, Georgia St) is very bad.

App State also carries a football cache that Charlotte currently can't match that would help give the AAC more credibility in the football market.

(09-07-2021 02:17 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  I would be very surprised if App would consier the AAC w/o it's big three, because quite frankly the SBC will likely be a better football conference than the AAC. and App has shown little incination to be a basketball power.

In fact, based on what appears to be improvement within CUSA football it may very well be that CUSA is also stronger in football than the AAC. once all thgis plays out

Its possible that CUSA could be stronger depending on who leaves. If Marshall, UAB, and La Tech leave that would be a tough blow. I still like the move for ODU because Im not as concerned about how great of a football conference we are in. I like the basketball potential with Temple and Memphis and the proximity of Temple and ECU. As long as those two are there, I want ODU there. Preferably with Marshall and some others. Of course, the risk is the same as when we joined CUSA. Do Temple and ECU leave the next year? Memphis probably wouldnt be there too long. Id really rather have Temple and ECU join CUSA East and CUSA West join the rest of the AAC.

(09-07-2021 02:28 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  I mean you can replace App with Charlotte and get basically the same result, but I do think that App would leave GSU and GS to share a conference with Marshall and ECU. Outside of App St, Ulala, and Coastal who's the next best football program? Arkansas State? Troy? The top is very good but the bottom (Tx St, ULM, Georgia St) is very bad.

App State also carries a football cache that Charlotte currently can't match that would help give the AAC more credibility in the football market.

Once the three are gone, the only pedigreed football programs left left in the AAC sre really Memphis and SMU(a long time ago in a galaxy far away).
(BTW I was told that the reason Memphis was not considered by the Big 12 is market size).
I am not sure App would want to dive into that. It is in a sweet situation right now.

Second, the AAC is also about basketball, and that ain't App. I am not sure the AAC would consider App on that count alone.

Third, and apparantly very important, is proximity to a real airport. (I never considered that before)
A coach friend of mine who monitors these boards messaged me and stated that another factor (besides Cox, finances, and the JMU admin) holding JMU back is that it's 115 miles from the nearest real Airport, Dulles.
He qiuipped that in this day and age, VT, w/o market or airport (nearest Roanoke) would never have gotten to where it is in today's climate.
I think that APP is in that same situation, 86 or so miles from Charlotte's Douglas.

(09-07-2021 02:31 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 02:17 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  I would be very surprised if App would consier the AAC w/o it's big three, because quite frankly the SBC will likely be a better football conference than the AAC. and App has shown little incination to be a basketball power.

In fact, based on what appears to be improvement within CUSA football it may very well be that CUSA is also stronger in football than the AAC. once all thgis plays out

Its possible that CUSA could be stronger depending on who leaves. If Marshall, UAB, and La Tech leave that would be a tough blow. I still like the move for ODU because Im not as concerned about how great of a football conference we are in. I like the basketball potential with Temple and Memphis and the proximity of Temple and ECU. As long as those two are there, I want ODU there. Preferably with Marshall and some others. Of course, the risk is the same as when we joined CUSA. Do Temple and ECU leave the next year? Memphis probably wouldnt be there too long. Id really rather have Temple and ECU join CUSA East and CUSA West join the rest of the AAC.

ODU must be pretty special, because the basketball of the last two CUSA programs to leave for the AAC nosedived. ECU and Tulane have not had a winning record in the AAC in 7 years. Both were able to go above .500 in CUSA.
In any event, football is what will drive the moves.

(09-07-2021 02:56 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 02:31 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 02:17 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  I would be very surprised if App would consier the AAC w/o it's big three, because quite frankly the SBC will likely be a better football conference than the AAC. and App has shown little incination to be a basketball power.

In fact, based on what appears to be improvement within CUSA football it may very well be that CUSA is also stronger in football than the AAC. once all thgis plays out

Its possible that CUSA could be stronger depending on who leaves. If Marshall, UAB, and La Tech leave that would be a tough blow. I still like the move for ODU because Im not as concerned about how great of a football conference we are in. I like the basketball potential with Temple and Memphis and the proximity of Temple and ECU. As long as those two are there, I want ODU there. Preferably with Marshall and some others. Of course, the risk is the same as when we joined CUSA. Do Temple and ECU leave the next year? Memphis probably wouldnt be there too long. Id really rather have Temple and ECU join CUSA East and CUSA West join the rest of the AAC.

ODU must be pretty special, because the basketball of the last two CUSA programs to leave for the AAC nosedived. ECU and Tulane have not had a winning record in the AAC in 7 years. Both were able to go above .500 in CUSA.
In any event, football is what will drive the moves.

No truer words ever spoken. It surely is to me.

Not that long ago we were considered by some to be a front runner for AAC expansion. Hopefully university presidents are not basing invitations strictly on recent football success but also on all the factors that made us a viable candidate in the first place. IMO we are still very much in play. Personally I lke the status of dark horse.

we have one of the top athletic budgets of any g5 that is in line with aac(most of the teams being discussed have tiny budgets), good basketball with top attendance in cusa , new expandable football field, one of the youngest football teams in the country with a new coach, good baseball, good revenue, nice university endowment, doctorate and research university, good enrollment in a high population area that is football recruiting gold mine. noone is sleeping on us, we are more in this then we know. however it’s good not to expect anything. i think regardless we will win because even if we dont get accepted by the aac we are spearheading the creation of a new eastern conference that could be perfect for us.

(09-07-2021 07:09 PM)ODUguy1999 Wrote:  we have one of the top athletic budgets of any g5 that is in line with aac(most of the teams being discussed have tiny budgets), good basketball with top attendance in cusa , new expandable football field, one of the youngest football teams in the country with a new coach, good baseball, good revenue, nice university endowment, doctorate and research university, good enrollment in a high population area that is football recruiting gold mine. noone is sleeping on us, we are more in this then we know. however it’s good not to expect anything. i think regardless we will win because even if we dont get accepted by the aac we are spearheading the creation of a new eastern conference that could be perfect for us.

I am interested in this new conference we are spearheading.
I have heard nothing about it, and am curious as to whom we are "spearheading" this with.

Comment by Aresco in this article.

Quote:We’ve got an excellent basketball league and even with realignment, we’re going to have an excellent basketball league. If we have to do any replenishment over the next couple of years, we would absolutely try to strengthen our football and our basketball. I understand that realignment could potentially impact our basketball, but if we have to do any rebuilding then we’re going to try to make sure we’ll always have good basketball in this league.

https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wi...36813.html

(09-07-2021 07:47 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 05:51 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(09-06-2021 11:56 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-06-2021 11:44 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Working with what we have is unacceptable and completely untenable for the health of the athletic program. This is not the time to settle. Radical change is needed if we do not get an AAC invite. AAC is the only lifeline in the current landscape. If that does not happen, then we have to do whatever we can to make our situation better now, because there will be no other opportunities coming. If that means Indy for football and find a better place for basketball, so be it. If that means blowing up CUSA, and taking a group of it's schools in a split, then let's lead the charge. This situation is critical and staying in CUSA as it is currently structured, even with a more regional split, whatever that means, is not acceptable.

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Short of an AAC invite, the only better place for MBB is the A10. That is absolutely not an option. Charlotte, WKU, ODU, UAB, and Marshall is a fairly good core for MBB. Where would you "place" (like delusional JMU posters, we cannot just place MBB anywhere w/o an invite) MBB otherwise?

What schools would "we" take with us? It is not likely that a Sun Belt program will be interested. nor any MAC or AAC schools.
Marshall and Charlotte? Short of a P5 or AAC invite, I think WKU, UAB, and MTSU are fairly settled. so we are back to CUSA East, which I think is a fairly realistic option.

The problem is Monarchblue is assuming that at least 2 of that “good core” is going to be off to the AAC and if ODU isn’t one of them there is nothing left. At some point Indy football becomes the better option even if we have to park basketball in the CAA for awhile. It could shake out where the closest school left in CUSA is FAU. That is not acceptable.


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You are not serious.....

We cannot just "park" in a conference of our choosing, we have to be invited.
There is no indication that the CAA would accept us back in basketball, especially knowing that we could leave at anytime.

So, that would mean that Marshall, WKU, MTSU, Charlotte, and UAB all left.....for somewhare (they are not ALL going to the AAC).

^this x2. All credibility is lost when the notion of going independent is mentioned. It is truly idiotic and would never work. We will never let ourselves become New Mexico State….and we will never have the chance to be Norte Dame….and we don’t have the resources of liberty. Indy, WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Start with a new premise because this one will NEVER hunt.

(09-07-2021 07:53 PM)Monarch Pride Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 07:47 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 05:51 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(09-06-2021 11:56 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-06-2021 11:44 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Working with what we have is unacceptable and completely untenable for the health of the athletic program. This is not the time to settle. Radical change is needed if we do not get an AAC invite. AAC is the only lifeline in the current landscape. If that does not happen, then we have to do whatever we can to make our situation better now, because there will be no other opportunities coming. If that means Indy for football and find a better place for basketball, so be it. If that means blowing up CUSA, and taking a group of it's schools in a split, then let's lead the charge. This situation is critical and staying in CUSA as it is currently structured, even with a more regional split, whatever that means, is not acceptable.

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Short of an AAC invite, the only better place for MBB is the A10. That is absolutely not an option. Charlotte, WKU, ODU, UAB, and Marshall is a fairly good core for MBB. Where would you "place" (like delusional JMU posters, we cannot just place MBB anywhere w/o an invite) MBB otherwise?

What schools would "we" take with us? It is not likely that a Sun Belt program will be interested. nor any MAC or AAC schools.
Marshall and Charlotte? Short of a P5 or AAC invite, I think WKU, UAB, and MTSU are fairly settled. so we are back to CUSA East, which I think is a fairly realistic option.

The problem is Monarchblue is assuming that at least 2 of that “good core” is going to be off to the AAC and if ODU isn’t one of them there is nothing left. At some point Indy football becomes the better option even if we have to park basketball in the CAA for awhile. It could shake out where the closest school left in CUSA is FAU. That is not acceptable.


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You are not serious.....

We cannot just "park" in a conference of our choosing, we have to be invited.
There is no indication that the CAA would accept us back in basketball, especially knowing that we could leave at anytime.

So, that would mean that Marshall, WKU, MTSU, Charlotte, and UAB all left.....for somewhare (they are not ALL going to the AAC).

^this x2. All credibility is lost when the notion of going independent is mentioned. It is truly idiotic and would never work. We will never let ourselves become New Mexico State….and we will never have the chance to be Norte Dame….and we don’t have the resources of liberty. Indy, WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Start with a new premise because this one will NEVER hunt.

Given the resources we’ve put into football in recent years, I find it hard to believe we’d drop football or move back down to Division 1AA. It might come to a point where Independence is the only other option. Maybe I don’t have the vision and missing something. Would be interested in 78s solution in particular if, say, the AAC adds Marshall, Charlotte, UAB, and WKU.


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(09-06-2021 08:12 PM)Monarch Pride Wrote:  I stopped reading (lost credibility) after you mentioned Indy in football. Never going to happen. Never.

I would not be so sure.

(09-08-2021 05:34 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 07:53 PM)Monarch Pride Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 07:47 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-07-2021 05:51 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(09-06-2021 11:56 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  Short of an AAC invite, the only better place for MBB is the A10. That is absolutely not an option. Charlotte, WKU, ODU, UAB, and Marshall is a fairly good core for MBB. Where would you "place" (like delusional JMU posters, we cannot just place MBB anywhere w/o an invite) MBB otherwise?

What schools would "we" take with us? It is not likely that a Sun Belt program will be interested. nor any MAC or AAC schools.
Marshall and Charlotte? Short of a P5 or AAC invite, I think WKU, UAB, and MTSU are fairly settled. so we are back to CUSA East, which I think is a fairly realistic option.

The problem is Monarchblue is assuming that at least 2 of that “good core” is going to be off to the AAC and if ODU isn’t one of them there is nothing left. At some point Indy football becomes the better option even if we have to park basketball in the CAA for awhile. It could shake out where the closest school left in CUSA is FAU. That is not acceptable.


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You are not serious.....

We cannot just "park" in a conference of our choosing, we have to be invited.
There is no indication that the CAA would accept us back in basketball, especially knowing that we could leave at anytime.

So, that would mean that Marshall, WKU, MTSU, Charlotte, and UAB all left.....for somewhare (they are not ALL going to the AAC).

^this x2. All credibility is lost when the notion of going independent is mentioned. It is truly idiotic and would never work. We will never let ourselves become New Mexico State….and we will never have the chance to be Norte Dame….and we don’t have the resources of liberty. Indy, WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Start with a new premise because this one will NEVER hunt.

Given the resources we’ve put into football in recent years, I find it hard to believe we’d drop football or move back down to Division 1AA. It might come to a point where Independence is the only other option. Maybe I don’t have the vision and missing something. Would be interested in 78s solution in particular if, say, the AAC adds Marshall, Charlotte, UAB, and WKU.


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You seem to be looking for a problem to find a solution for.
There will always be what-if doomsday scenarios.

IF the AAC adds Marshall, MTSU, Charlotte, UAB, and WKU (I think at most the AAC adds 2 from the SBC, CUSA and/or the Mountain West) then yes, there are a number less than palatable outcomes, some of which could include moving BB and non revenue sports to a non football conference and going indy. I am reasonably sure that we would do so rather than drop down a division. However if that was not very short term, it would kill football.

My responses to you now and in the past are that we cannot just join the A10 whenever we want, nor just pick a conference to "'park" some sports in.

I would imagine that Dr Hemphill and WS are aware of all of the possibilities and I am quite sure that they are actively engaged behind-the-scenes, including exploring the SBC.

(09-08-2021 08:07 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(09-06-2021 08:12 PM)Monarch Pride Wrote:  I stopped reading (lost credibility) after you mentioned Indy in football. Never going to happen. Never.

I would not be so sure.

If we go Indy for football, its going to be the death sentence. You have to be a military academy, a brand, or have a **** ton of money to survive. I don't really care to be UCONN or UMASS.

(09-08-2021 08:52 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-08-2021 08:07 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(09-06-2021 08:12 PM)Monarch Pride Wrote:  I stopped reading (lost credibility) after you mentioned Indy in football. Never going to happen. Never.

I would not be so sure.

If we go Indy for football, its going to be the death sentence. You have to be a military academy, a brand, or have a **** ton of money to survive. I don't really care to be UCONN or UMASS.

UCONN and UMASS both sucked before going Indy though.