(09-07-2021 01:07 PM)HAL 9100 Wrote:  I would stay at 12 for at least a decade, personally. There's good options available to pick from, but the Big 12 needs to get a solid footing to build off of first especially with Texas and Oklahoma leaving. You don't want to "muddy" the waters too quickly and not allow these 12 to showcase what we have. Then the teams that are available aren't likely going anywhere so I don't think there's any reason to rush it.

I agree with you on this

The big 12 moniker is somewhat tarnished by its turmoil of the past decade. Best to start fresh in 25 as big 14. I still think Air Force and Navy (AF made the list for consideration, Navy didn’t approach the big xii afaik) but if not Navy then USF.

(09-09-2021 12:33 PM)Huan Wrote:  The big 12 moniker is somewhat tarnished by its turmoil of the past decade. Best to start fresh in 25 as big 14. I still think Air Force and Navy (AF made the list for consideration, Navy didn’t approach the big xii afaik) but if not Navy then USF.

fwiw ( i know, not much), doesn't the league also own the rights to B14 and B16? for some reason, i think i remember reading that somewhere - maybe back in '16?

Big 14 is owned by the big xii. I don’t think big 16 is.

Quote: Tradition and history matter, but the Big 12 hasn’t been around so long that it can’t look at a rebrand. Commissioner Bob Bowlsby and the member institutions should look at this as an opportunity to move on from the past failures of the conference, both on and off the field, and forge ahead to a new future with a new identity.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/soonerswire...horns/amp/

The biggest mistake for the American was letting the basketball schools take the Big East brand. The “P6” fight would’ve been much easier if we had kept the Big East because people would still recognize it as a BCS conference. Once you change your brand, then you change your image and it could be for the worse. No one is pushing to change the Big 10 despite having 14 schools. People know the Big 12 as a P5 brand more than they know what schools are inside it and that’s not something to throw away.

I'm opposed to additional expansion until the 12 can jell a bit. No one in this league is going anywhere over the next decade, so I think getting the league together for a few years and seeing how it works is better than jumping back into expansion in two years IMO.

My preferences for any additional members starts with Memphis. After that, I see the argument for SMU, for USF, and for someone like Boise or Colorado State. I don't have a strong preference among the latter. But Memphis should be the clear front-runner IMO.

(09-09-2021 03:33 PM)HAL 9100 Wrote:  The biggest mistake for the American was letting the basketball schools take the Big East brand. The “P6” fight would’ve been much easier if we had kept the Big East because people would still recognize it as a BCS conference. Once you change your brand, then you change your image and it could be for the worse. No one is pushing to change the Big 10 despite having 14 schools. People know the Big 12 as a P5 brand more than they know what schools are inside it and that’s not something to throw away.

Yep, I said this for years. The schools that benefited from the sale money defend it; everyone else thinks it was dumb.

(09-04-2021 09:32 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  UCF, Cincy, UH, and BYU are on board, should B12 stay at 12 or go big with 14 or 16?
I could see it either way. 16 could make tons of sense. Add 2 or 3 from MWC and 1 or 2 from AAC.

Whatever ESPN and Fox compensates us to do. I'd prefer to stay at 12 for awhile until we nail down the financials. Then add 2 more if financially feasible.

I think 2 schools to flesh out the east coast islands would be the best, but there's just nothing out there that even close to being worth it

If there are seasons with 14 teams (if ou and ut don’t leave before 25) and the 14 teams format works, then the big 12 may want to stay 14 in 25 and on. But I will depends on tv contracts. I don’t see 16.

(09-09-2021 12:33 PM)Huan Wrote:  The big 12 moniker is somewhat tarnished by its turmoil of the past decade. Best to start fresh in 25 as big 14. I still think Air Force and Navy (AF made the list for consideration, Navy didn’t approach the big xii afaik) but if not Navy then USF.

Keep Big 12 until you actually go past 12. Name ID matters

Memphis makes sense but no clear winners for #14. I suppose Boise State. Good in football and that's driving this but they cut the baseball and some other sports.

TV will dictate. If 2 new teams add value, great. Let's add Memphis plus one other, Boise or CSU.

Or if Kansas leaves, add Memphis. I don't want to weaken the conference by adding teams just to expand like the Super WAC disaster.

(09-13-2021 10:23 PM)CougarFrog Wrote:  TV will dictate. If 2 new teams add value, great. Let's add Memphis plus one other, Boise or CSU.

Or if Kansas leaves, add Memphis. I don't want to weaken the conference by adding teams just to expand like the Super WAC disaster.

Memphis and Colorado State would be a good duo.

I agree it is all about TV.

(09-06-2021 08:27 AM)uhmump95 Wrote:  Memphis is a no brainer to add. TBH, I think the B12 is making a mistake not adding them now.

With Tech and TCU, SMU is redundant.

I would prefer Colorado St. over Boise St. I am still upset over what happened with the Big East and I don't think they are the power they used to be.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

A couple of thoughts about your post. The only thing CSU has over BSU is they are in a bigger state and a little geographically closer. BSU has had a much better product, has better attendance and they draw a LOT better on TV than CSU. BSU has really put up good tv numbers for who they play and will give the B12 another possible late night time slot if added.

As a Big 12 fan I thought UH was either #1 or #2 for expansion teams. I also had the 4 teams the league chose as favorites. When I heard they were thinking SMU I thought that would be a bad idea but the more I have thought about it I understand why they could get in as #15 or #16.

As a 15th or 16th team SMU just strengthens the region, and intensifies the Texahoma rivalries and Texas coverage of the league. The B12 has to solidly be the #2 league in Texas. The Texahoma rivalry games better do well from a T1 & T2 stand point in this league and I expect them too. This just adds another possible 4 Texas instate games and one Texahoma with OSU. It will also help the Texas teams at the gate to give them a little bigger feel to their games. Look at UH's attendance against TT, and even compare TCU's attendance against Cal 36.5K(P5 school) against SMU 44.5K (AAC school). Hopefully, also the B12 would be close enough to the PAC tv deal that having 6 Texahoma teams would make it not worth leaving the B12 to the PAC for as much as 10M a year due to less travel expense and higher home ticket sales.

Memphis strengthens WVU and Cincy for regional rivals and UCF to a smaller extent. ISU may get lumped in with this group of teams for regular games also.

UCF probably needs a regional partner to reach its full potential and is probably why the league adds USF.

If BSU is #14 it helps BYU some. Although, I think BYU probably needs the least help as they have been used to being independent.

Some have thrown out SDSU including Pete Thamel who had been getting inside information according to ISU AD Jamie Pollard, because his info was very accurate he said in an interview. But SDSU would be on an island and wouldn't have much help so I have a hard time seeing them thrive in that scenario. Passing on SDSU by the Big 12 might be part of a truce between the B12 & PAC 12 from expanding from each other's leagues or territory as well.

(09-10-2021 06:30 PM)knightmite Wrote:  

(09-04-2021 09:32 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  UCF, Cincy, UH, and BYU are on board, should B12 stay at 12 or go big with 14 or 16?
I could see it either way. 16 could make tons of sense. Add 2 or 3 from MWC and 1 or 2 from AAC.

Whatever ESPN and Fox compensates us to do. I'd prefer to stay at 12 for awhile until we nail down the financials. Then add 2 more if financially feasible.

Just curious as an Iowa State fan, does UCF want another school in their region so they are not on an island so to speak in the B12? I know there has been bad blood with USF in the past but is that enough to want to say isolated?

The new B12 is quite a bit different from the old B12. The old B12 had two huge brands in UT & OU that represented about 50% of the league value as everyone knows. I was really never for expansion then unless OU & UT were clearly supporting expansion which they never did.

But now its a lot different. The median value is so much closer that the additional inventory of games gives and time windows(especially late night starts and week day games) probably provides extra value to the network contracts.

This is also where I think it is very important to strengthen existing teams instead of spreading out too far. Memphis strengthens WVU & Cincy, and UCF to a smaller degree since they have existing history.

BSU helps BYU with a rival and provides the league an additional late night start time slot to sell. As well as BSU has always done well ratings wise against lesser opponents.

The team that I at first glance thought, no way but now see the reasons for considering as #15 or #16 is SMU. It strengthens rivalry games against 5 Texahoma games and helps the ticket sales of especially all Texas teams. It also intensifies the Texas media coverage of the team, and that is really essential for this league. The school also has money and that bodes well for SMU making the necessary investments and advertising revenue for the league.

(10-05-2021 11:46 AM)Win5002 Wrote:  

(09-10-2021 06:30 PM)knightmite Wrote:  

(09-04-2021 09:32 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  UCF, Cincy, UH, and BYU are on board, should B12 stay at 12 or go big with 14 or 16?
I could see it either way. 16 could make tons of sense. Add 2 or 3 from MWC and 1 or 2 from AAC.

Whatever ESPN and Fox compensates us to do. I'd prefer to stay at 12 for awhile until we nail down the financials. Then add 2 more if financially feasible.

Just curious as an Iowa State fan, does UCF want another school in their region so they are not on an island so to speak in the B12? I know there has been bad blood with USF in the past but is that enough to want to say isolated?

The new B12 is quite a bit different from the old B12. The old B12 had two huge brands in UT & OU that represented about 50% of the league value as everyone knows. I was really never for expansion then unless OU & UT were clearly supporting expansion which they never did.

But now its a lot different. The median value is so much closer that the additional inventory of games gives and time windows(especially late night starts and week day games) probably provides extra value to the network contracts.

This is also where I think it is very important to strengthen existing teams instead of spreading out too far. Memphis strengthens WVU & Cincy, and UCF to a smaller degree since they have existing history.

BSU helps BYU with a rival and provides the league an additional late night start time slot to sell. As well as BSU has always done well ratings wise against lesser opponents.

The team that I at first glance thought, no way but now see the reasons for considering as #15 or #16 is SMU. It strengthens rivalry games against 5 Texahoma games and helps the ticket sales of especially all Texas teams. It also intensifies the Texas media coverage of the team, and that is really essential for this league. The school also has money and that bodes well for SMU making the necessary investments and advertising revenue for the league.

While our leadership has changed at both the presidential level and AD level, I do not believe UCF would fight tooth and nail to block USF. USF, of course, did that in regards to the Big East and helped kill the entire conference in the process.

That said, that doesn't mean that UCF is cheerleading USF being added, but I don't feel like our athletic leadership is threatened by USF being in the same conference. I would tend to think that UCF will acquiesce to USF joining the Big 12 if that is what the conference leadership believes will be best for the conference.

(10-05-2021 11:46 AM)Win5002 Wrote:  

(09-10-2021 06:30 PM)knightmite Wrote:  

(09-04-2021 09:32 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  UCF, Cincy, UH, and BYU are on board, should B12 stay at 12 or go big with 14 or 16?
I could see it either way. 16 could make tons of sense. Add 2 or 3 from MWC and 1 or 2 from AAC.

Whatever ESPN and Fox compensates us to do. I'd prefer to stay at 12 for awhile until we nail down the financials. Then add 2 more if financially feasible.

Just curious as an Iowa State fan, does UCF want another school in their region so they are not on an island so to speak in the B12? I know there has been bad blood with USF in the past but is that enough to want to say isolated?

The new B12 is quite a bit different from the old B12. The old B12 had two huge brands in UT & OU that represented about 50% of the league value as everyone knows. I was really never for expansion then unless OU & UT were clearly supporting expansion which they never did.

But now its a lot different. The median value is so much closer that the additional inventory of games gives and time windows(especially late night starts and week day games) probably provides extra value to the network contracts.

This is also where I think it is very important to strengthen existing teams instead of spreading out too far. Memphis strengthens WVU & Cincy, and UCF to a smaller degree since they have existing history.

BSU helps BYU with a rival and provides the league an additional late night start time slot to sell. As well as BSU has always done well ratings wise against lesser opponents.

The team that I at first glance thought, no way but now see the reasons for considering as #15 or #16 is SMU. It strengthens rivalry games against 5 Texahoma games and helps the ticket sales of especially all Texas teams. It also intensifies the Texas media coverage of the team, and that is really essential for this league. The school also has money and that bodes well for SMU making the necessary investments and advertising revenue for the league.

UCF would rather be on an island than have usf be in the conference. Would it be the worst thing in the world? No, but we can cover both media markets adequately, there’s a lot of UCF alumni in Tampa, and we generally have about the same if not more of our fans when we play them in the Bucs stadium.

I personally like Memphis and SMU or Memphis and Colorado State. Memphis is the no brained, but SMU is also committed to win at a high level and invest in their program, and it’s showing. Their fanbase will get bigger over time as they continue to win. Colorado State has everything except on field success, so I feel that they would be a very good project for the B12.