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Its Mack tonight
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The Flagship Online
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Post: #21
RE: Its Mack tonight
(09-07-2021 11:29 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Flagship- I think most teams do run it. I can't remember watching a college game where the team did not run an RPO. Im trying to think of the last one. It would have to be a pure dropback passer for sure but even some of them run it.

I take special notice since it is a thing with me. Some teams will sometimes make it look like there is an option but there really isn't an option for the QB to keep it. Both Wisconsin and Penn St. faked it at times. But like we both said, depends on the type of QB. Both of these teams don't want their QBs running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc3AfvfBIRI
09-07-2021 11:51 AM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Its Mack tonight
(09-07-2021 10:28 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 08:42 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  
(09-06-2021 07:47 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(09-06-2021 05:02 PM)The Flagship Wrote:  I have no problem with Mack or Wolff, but I do have a problem with read-option plays. Just commit to something and run it the best you can. If you don't like the call, audible to something else. Don't ask the QB's to make decisions mid-play.

BTW, first half pass attempt stats:
3 for 9 on passes up to 10 yards (4 drops)
0 for 1 on passes from 10 to 20 yards (intercepted)
0 for 1 on passes greater than 20 yards (broken up)

That is a poor job of using the entire field. Maybe that was on the coaching staff, or maybe that was on Mack. We'll see as we go forward. If there is no threat of going deep, the defense's job is easier.

/end rant.

Not liking read options is odd
Probably. But I hate seeing the wrong option taken. Even the announcers said that Mack should have kept the ball and run around the end on several plays. But we really don't know what the play was or what the read was. Just frustration when the handoff goes to the back and he runs into a wall at the LOS when it looks like a read option play.

I just really think it takes too much time out of practice to work on a read for a running play when the reads for passing plays are much more complex and need more work. It boils down to return on investment.

How do you feel about the triple option offense? I'm actually a fan of it and it's entirely based off of players making decisions.

The TO has very specific player requirements and it cannot be installed quickly.
Linemen and the QB are receuited specifically for that offense.
I never liked it. The TO reminds me of watching Rugby, which I like, just not in football.
09-07-2021 12:00 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Its Mack tonight
(09-07-2021 10:58 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 09:15 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  There seems to be some confusion as to what the RPO, or Run/Pass Option is.

Thee run-pass option provides the quarterback the option to hand the ball to the running back (run) or pass the football to a receiver (pass).
The offensive line blocks as if it’s run play. This has the advantage of forcing a defense to have to defend run or pass.

A quarterback keeper can be a designed play, a third run option (the QB sees an opening), or a busted pass play.
That an announcer determined that the QB should have kept the ball himself is not a flaw of the RPO. Indeed, if we play Wolff, that will likely not be an encouraged play or a QB run option, by design. I am not sure if Mack was greenlighted to run himself or not. Wolff likely will not be, and Stone Smartt would likely be encouraged to do so at will.

04-cheers
No confusion here. I did not notice evidence that we ran RPOs. And I never called it an RPO because I don't think the P was part of the options. I think they were just run options (often called read options), meaning hand off or keep it. You can tell there was no P based on whether the WRs were blocking right away or running a pattern. An announcer can figure that part out.

What makes it hard to distinguish between a run option or a straight handoff is the footwork by the QB and how the ball is held before the handoff. If I coached a lot of run options, I would instruct the QB to perform the handoff the same way for a straight handoff play because you want to keep the DE or OLB away from the inside run. So it's hard to tell if the QB had the option at all on a particular play.

As Giles said, it's odd to not like it as a fan. I get it. But I see most teams not run it. It's probably because the QB can't run well or they don't want him to run for fear of injury. It does take a lot of practice time to perfect it, even without the P. I would spend more time on pre-snap and post-snap reads in the passing game and getting rid of the ball faster. I thought Mack was a bit too slow on the release at times. A bit earlier and the pass would not have been as contested as it was.
Well we advertise our offense as an RPO, and I really saw no evidence of a QB read option, as Mack rarely had any intention of running.

I DO remember when we supposedly ran a read option with TH. In a discussion with Brian Scott, he told me he wanted teams to THINK we ran the QB read option, but in fact they did NOT want TH to run at all except at the goal line.
09-07-2021 12:06 PM
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BigBlueMonarch Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Its Mack tonight
(09-07-2021 12:06 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 10:58 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 09:15 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  There seems to be some confusion as to what the RPO, or Run/Pass Option is.

Thee run-pass option provides the quarterback the option to hand the ball to the running back (run) or pass the football to a receiver (pass).
The offensive line blocks as if it’s run play. This has the advantage of forcing a defense to have to defend run or pass.

A quarterback keeper can be a designed play, a third run option (the QB sees an opening), or a busted pass play.
That an announcer determined that the QB should have kept the ball himself is not a flaw of the RPO. Indeed, if we play Wolff, that will likely not be an encouraged play or a QB run option, by design. I am not sure if Mack was greenlighted to run himself or not. Wolff likely will not be, and Stone Smartt would likely be encouraged to do so at will.

04-cheers
No confusion here. I did not notice evidence that we ran RPOs. And I never called it an RPO because I don't think the P was part of the options. I think they were just run options (often called read options), meaning hand off or keep it. You can tell there was no P based on whether the WRs were blocking right away or running a pattern. An announcer can figure that part out.

What makes it hard to distinguish between a run option or a straight handoff is the footwork by the QB and how the ball is held before the handoff. If I coached a lot of run options, I would instruct the QB to perform the handoff the same way for a straight handoff play because you want to keep the DE or OLB away from the inside run. So it's hard to tell if the QB had the option at all on a particular play.

As Giles said, it's odd to not like it as a fan. I get it. But I see most teams not run it. It's probably because the QB can't run well or they don't want him to run for fear of injury. It does take a lot of practice time to perfect it, even without the P. I would spend more time on pre-snap and post-snap reads in the passing game and getting rid of the ball faster. I thought Mack was a bit too slow on the release at times. A bit earlier and the pass would not have been as contested as it was.
Well we advertise our offense as an RPO, and I really saw no evidence of a QB read option, as Mack rarely had any intention of running.

I DO remember when we supposedly ran a read option with TH. In a discussion with Brian Scott, he told me he wanted teams to THINK we ran the QB read option, but in fact they did NOT want TH to run at all except at the goal line.

The sad part in all of this is that is seems we had better QB's at the FCS level than we do now. I am trying to figure out why we abandoned the spread offense that we ran with DeMarco and TH it seemed to work really well and hide some of the deficiencies of the Offensive Line. It also had teams thinking pass freeing up some good running lanes in games as well,
09-08-2021 08:48 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Its Mack tonight
(09-08-2021 08:48 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 12:06 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 10:58 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 09:15 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  There seems to be some confusion as to what the RPO, or Run/Pass Option is.

Thee run-pass option provides the quarterback the option to hand the ball to the running back (run) or pass the football to a receiver (pass).
The offensive line blocks as if it’s run play. This has the advantage of forcing a defense to have to defend run or pass.

A quarterback keeper can be a designed play, a third run option (the QB sees an opening), or a busted pass play.
That an announcer determined that the QB should have kept the ball himself is not a flaw of the RPO. Indeed, if we play Wolff, that will likely not be an encouraged play or a QB run option, by design. I am not sure if Mack was greenlighted to run himself or not. Wolff likely will not be, and Stone Smartt would likely be encouraged to do so at will.

04-cheers
No confusion here. I did not notice evidence that we ran RPOs. And I never called it an RPO because I don't think the P was part of the options. I think they were just run options (often called read options), meaning hand off or keep it. You can tell there was no P based on whether the WRs were blocking right away or running a pattern. An announcer can figure that part out.

What makes it hard to distinguish between a run option or a straight handoff is the footwork by the QB and how the ball is held before the handoff. If I coached a lot of run options, I would instruct the QB to perform the handoff the same way for a straight handoff play because you want to keep the DE or OLB away from the inside run. So it's hard to tell if the QB had the option at all on a particular play.

As Giles said, it's odd to not like it as a fan. I get it. But I see most teams not run it. It's probably because the QB can't run well or they don't want him to run for fear of injury. It does take a lot of practice time to perfect it, even without the P. I would spend more time on pre-snap and post-snap reads in the passing game and getting rid of the ball faster. I thought Mack was a bit too slow on the release at times. A bit earlier and the pass would not have been as contested as it was.
Well we advertise our offense as an RPO, and I really saw no evidence of a QB read option, as Mack rarely had any intention of running.

I DO remember when we supposedly ran a read option with TH. In a discussion with Brian Scott, he told me he wanted teams to THINK we ran the QB read option, but in fact they did NOT want TH to run at all except at the goal line.

The sad part in all of this is that is seems we had better QB's at the FCS level than we do now. I am trying to figure out why we abandoned the spread offense that we ran with DeMarco and TH it seemed to work really well and hide some of the deficiencies of the Offensive Line. It also had teams thinking pass freeing up some good running lanes in games as well,

Besides Heinicke, we didn't have better QBs in FCS. Just bc Mack didn't play well vs. Wake doesn't mean he wouldn't vs. Elon.
09-09-2021 08:10 AM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Its Mack tonight
(09-09-2021 08:10 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 08:48 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 12:06 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 10:58 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 09:15 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  There seems to be some confusion as to what the RPO, or Run/Pass Option is.

Thee run-pass option provides the quarterback the option to hand the ball to the running back (run) or pass the football to a receiver (pass).
The offensive line blocks as if it’s run play. This has the advantage of forcing a defense to have to defend run or pass.

A quarterback keeper can be a designed play, a third run option (the QB sees an opening), or a busted pass play.
That an announcer determined that the QB should have kept the ball himself is not a flaw of the RPO. Indeed, if we play Wolff, that will likely not be an encouraged play or a QB run option, by design. I am not sure if Mack was greenlighted to run himself or not. Wolff likely will not be, and Stone Smartt would likely be encouraged to do so at will.

04-cheers
No confusion here. I did not notice evidence that we ran RPOs. And I never called it an RPO because I don't think the P was part of the options. I think they were just run options (often called read options), meaning hand off or keep it. You can tell there was no P based on whether the WRs were blocking right away or running a pattern. An announcer can figure that part out.

What makes it hard to distinguish between a run option or a straight handoff is the footwork by the QB and how the ball is held before the handoff. If I coached a lot of run options, I would instruct the QB to perform the handoff the same way for a straight handoff play because you want to keep the DE or OLB away from the inside run. So it's hard to tell if the QB had the option at all on a particular play.

As Giles said, it's odd to not like it as a fan. I get it. But I see most teams not run it. It's probably because the QB can't run well or they don't want him to run for fear of injury. It does take a lot of practice time to perfect it, even without the P. I would spend more time on pre-snap and post-snap reads in the passing game and getting rid of the ball faster. I thought Mack was a bit too slow on the release at times. A bit earlier and the pass would not have been as contested as it was.
Well we advertise our offense as an RPO, and I really saw no evidence of a QB read option, as Mack rarely had any intention of running.

I DO remember when we supposedly ran a read option with TH. In a discussion with Brian Scott, he told me he wanted teams to THINK we ran the QB read option, but in fact they did NOT want TH to run at all except at the goal line.

The sad part in all of this is that is seems we had better QB's at the FCS level than we do now. I am trying to figure out why we abandoned the spread offense that we ran with DeMarco and TH it seemed to work really well and hide some of the deficiencies of the Offensive Line. It also had teams thinking pass freeing up some good running lanes in games as well,

Besides Heinicke, we didn't have better QBs in FCS. Just bc Mack didn't play well vs. Wake doesn't mean he wouldn't vs. Elon.

03-thumbsup
09-09-2021 08:11 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Its Mack tonight
(09-09-2021 08:10 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(09-08-2021 08:48 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 12:06 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 10:58 AM)The Flagship Wrote:  
(09-07-2021 09:15 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  There seems to be some confusion as to what the RPO, or Run/Pass Option is.

Thee run-pass option provides the quarterback the option to hand the ball to the running back (run) or pass the football to a receiver (pass).
The offensive line blocks as if it’s run play. This has the advantage of forcing a defense to have to defend run or pass.

A quarterback keeper can be a designed play, a third run option (the QB sees an opening), or a busted pass play.
That an announcer determined that the QB should have kept the ball himself is not a flaw of the RPO. Indeed, if we play Wolff, that will likely not be an encouraged play or a QB run option, by design. I am not sure if Mack was greenlighted to run himself or not. Wolff likely will not be, and Stone Smartt would likely be encouraged to do so at will.

04-cheers
No confusion here. I did not notice evidence that we ran RPOs. And I never called it an RPO because I don't think the P was part of the options. I think they were just run options (often called read options), meaning hand off or keep it. You can tell there was no P based on whether the WRs were blocking right away or running a pattern. An announcer can figure that part out.

What makes it hard to distinguish between a run option or a straight handoff is the footwork by the QB and how the ball is held before the handoff. If I coached a lot of run options, I would instruct the QB to perform the handoff the same way for a straight handoff play because you want to keep the DE or OLB away from the inside run. So it's hard to tell if the QB had the option at all on a particular play.

As Giles said, it's odd to not like it as a fan. I get it. But I see most teams not run it. It's probably because the QB can't run well or they don't want him to run for fear of injury. It does take a lot of practice time to perfect it, even without the P. I would spend more time on pre-snap and post-snap reads in the passing game and getting rid of the ball faster. I thought Mack was a bit too slow on the release at times. A bit earlier and the pass would not have been as contested as it was.
Well we advertise our offense as an RPO, and I really saw no evidence of a QB read option, as Mack rarely had any intention of running.

I DO remember when we supposedly ran a read option with TH. In a discussion with Brian Scott, he told me he wanted teams to THINK we ran the QB read option, but in fact they did NOT want TH to run at all except at the goal line.

The sad part in all of this is that is seems we had better QB's at the FCS level than we do now. I am trying to figure out why we abandoned the spread offense that we ran with DeMarco and TH it seemed to work really well and hide some of the deficiencies of the Offensive Line. It also had teams thinking pass freeing up some good running lanes in games as well,

Besides Heinicke, we didn't have better QBs in FCS. Just bc Mack didn't play well vs. Wake doesn't mean he wouldn't vs. Elon.

Id add that David Washington has probably been our second best QB. But he played both FCS and FBS. Recruited for FCS though. The jury is still out on Mack, Wolff, Poff etc.
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2021 08:58 AM by monarx.)
09-09-2021 08:57 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Its Mack tonight
Washington had the opportunity to throw to some star WRs that play in the NFL. I love Washington as a player but those guys made Blake Larussa look good as well.
09-09-2021 09:10 AM
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Chillie Willie Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Its Mack tonight
(09-09-2021 09:10 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Washington had the opportunity to throw to some star WRs that play in the NFL. I love Washington as a player but those guys made Blake Larussa look good as well.

Let’s not make it sound like they were slouches. We had other QBs that threw to our star WRs that they couldn’t make look good.
09-09-2021 09:57 AM
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