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dansplaining Online
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Post: #21
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-06-2021 06:23 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(09-06-2021 05:35 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(09-06-2021 03:24 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(09-04-2021 06:12 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(09-02-2021 12:24 PM)emu79 Wrote:  Bingo. The school and CC both can have their cake and eat too. A buyout insures a,quality candidate $ wise if CC leaves. I am delighted this happened. CC is the reason we started buying season tickets again.

Extending the contract of a MAC coach in no way, "locks" him in, just ask WMU about PJ and Buffalo about Oats. MAC money is small in the NCAA world.

I absolutely adore Creighton and in favor of this extension, but like Steve says, it is all about the buyout. EMU's compensation for providing a arena for a talent to succeed that also happens to be their highest paid employee MUST be measurable.

Extending a coach and renegotiating is best thought of as an insurance policy or hedge bet.

If the coach succeeds and stays, great. If he leaves, esp. early on, nice payday for the university to use to hire the next coach.

E.g., if a successful coach leaves and there is a 400K buyout clause, the school can take those monies and spread over a 4 year period and increase the salary of the next coach by 100K.

Truth!

I wonder what the formula is? E.g., 50% of his annual (base) salary for each year remaining on the contract?

Using a simple example, 500k base salary for 3 years, the coach leaves after one year the payout would be 500k x 2 x .50 = 500K. After 2 years it would be say 250K.

That would seem fair to both sides.

I think it depends on the situation - im not sure theres an industry standard. i remember in his second run at louisville bobby petrino had a HUGE buy out because the guy could not stop interviewing for other jobs.
09-07-2021 05:48 AM
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Post: #22
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-02-2021 10:34 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Back to back sub-.500 conference records gets you an extension. I hope Creighton can right the ship, but the timing of this extension is very odd to me.

Spot on.
09-09-2021 11:42 PM
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Post: #23
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-09-2021 11:42 PM)holybovine Wrote:  
(09-02-2021 10:34 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Back to back sub-.500 conference records gets you an extension. I hope Creighton can right the ship, but the timing of this extension is very odd to me.

Spot on.

Even if the team were completely flat, IMHO this is NOT the time to start shopping. Way too much uncertainty. We just did a season with no payday games, the P5 is obsessing itself with creating a mini-NFL, and who knows, we're probably going to have to compete with WMU and CMU to find NIL opportunities for our players. Unless your coach were COMPLETELY out of energy or your fan base was COMPLETELY dried up . . . please NOT NOW.
09-10-2021 09:26 AM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: New Contract for CC
Thought it would fun to look back at CC's first press conference when he was hired and what he promised the players and fans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-UBXAWdFTk
09-12-2021 01:59 PM
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EagleSam Online
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Post: #25
RE: New Contract for CC
Per Tony Paul, Creighton’s contract will automatically be extended by a year every time he makes a bowl.

https://twitter.com/tonypaul1984/status/...60077?s=21

If you found Murphy’s 20-win clause absurd but are ok with this, I don’t know what to tell you.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2021 10:14 AM by EagleSam.)
09-14-2021 10:13 AM
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dansplaining Online
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Post: #26
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-14-2021 10:13 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Per Tony Paul, Creighton’s contract will automatically be extended by a year every time he makes a bowl.

https://twitter.com/tonypaul1984/status/...60077?s=21

If you found Murphy’s 20-win clause absurd but are ok with this, I don’t know what to tell you.

I think theres a pretty big difference between winning 20 games in college with a bunch of gimmes against NAIA schools and going bowling
09-14-2021 11:51 AM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #27
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-14-2021 11:51 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 10:13 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Per Tony Paul, Creighton’s contract will automatically be extended by a year every time he makes a bowl.

https://twitter.com/tonypaul1984/status/...60077?s=21

If you found Murphy’s 20-win clause absurd but are ok with this, I don’t know what to tell you.

I think theres a pretty big difference between winning 20 games in college with a bunch of gimmes against NAIA schools and going bowling

Both of you make extremely valid points.

Murph had a great deal of control over his scheduling and his penchant for playing glorified high school teams did indeed allow him the chance to get to the 20 win extension with a mediocre performance. It was indeed wrong.

That said, I see no reason that EMU should reward a football coach with an additional contract year for simply getting to a Bowl Game. That requires only a .500 record, which is exactly the definition of mediocre.

A MAC head football coaching position is hardly considered to the "last job" of all it's successfully motivated inhabitants not named Frank Solich. The MAC clearly does not have the financial resources to in any way compete with Power Five poachers, so why in the world would EMU offer a coach more longevity for a less than stellar performance? If Creighton were to win the MAC this year, I am nearly certain that he will be relocating elsewhere for more money. Conversely if he happens to win half of his games and make it to a bowl, he gets another year on his contract. This is just too one sided of an agreement.
09-14-2021 06:33 PM
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Post: #28
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-14-2021 11:51 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 10:13 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Per Tony Paul, Creighton’s contract will automatically be extended by a year every time he makes a bowl.

https://twitter.com/tonypaul1984/status/...60077?s=21

If you found Murphy’s 20-win clause absurd but are ok with this, I don’t know what to tell you.

I think theres a pretty big difference between winning 20 games in college with a bunch of gimmes against NAIA schools and going bowling

Care to elaborate on how it’s a “big difference”? Because I see accepting mediocrity as the standard in both cases. Go 3-1 against a vanilla OOC schedule, then all you need to do is win 3 conference games to be bowl eligible. Kinda like 2019.
09-14-2021 07:11 PM
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Post: #29
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-14-2021 07:11 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 11:51 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 10:13 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Per Tony Paul, Creighton’s contract will automatically be extended by a year every time he makes a bowl.

https://twitter.com/tonypaul1984/status/...60077?s=21

If you found Murphy’s 20-win clause absurd but are ok with this, I don’t know what to tell you.

I think theres a pretty big difference between winning 20 games in college with a bunch of gimmes against NAIA schools and going bowling

Care to elaborate on how it’s a “big difference”? Because I see accepting mediocrity as the standard in both cases. Go 3-1 against a vanilla OOC schedule, then all you need to do is win 3 conference games to be bowl eligible. Kinda like 2019.

One caveat, Sam. Typically we need to win 7 games, unless we get break with a shortage of eligibles.
09-14-2021 08:24 PM
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dansplaining Online
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Post: #30
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-14-2021 08:24 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 07:11 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 11:51 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 10:13 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Per Tony Paul, Creighton’s contract will automatically be extended by a year every time he makes a bowl.

https://twitter.com/tonypaul1984/status/...60077?s=21

If you found Murphy’s 20-win clause absurd but are ok with this, I don’t know what to tell you.

I think theres a pretty big difference between winning 20 games in college with a bunch of gimmes against NAIA schools and going bowling

Care to elaborate on how it’s a “big difference”? Because I see accepting mediocrity as the standard in both cases. Go 3-1 against a vanilla OOC schedule, then all you need to do is win 3 conference games to be bowl eligible. Kinda like 2019.

One caveat, Sam. Typically we need to win 7 games, unless we get break with a shortage of eligibles.

Because a bowl game is a post season appearance. its a big game on tv, its advertising for the school, its a new logo to stamp on the wall of the stadium and maybe - just maybe - itll be a trophy. these things have material value that winning 20 games and thats that DOESNT do a thing after they lose in the conference tournament just doesnt have.

if i could make a change id say that he should get a year for every bowl WIN - but look none of us were at the negotiating table. who knows what was offered and discussed.
09-15-2021 06:38 AM
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Post: #31
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-14-2021 10:13 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Per Tony Paul, Creighton’s contract will automatically be extended by a year every time he makes a bowl.

https://twitter.com/tonypaul1984/status/...60077?s=21

If you found Murphy’s 20-win clause absurd but are ok with this, I don’t know what to tell you.
Pre Chris Creighton, Eastern making a bowl game was deemed pretty much impossible. Now we're disappointed if they don't. Totally fine with this. In fact it is perfect. Name another Eastern coach who would have gotten a 1 year extension in 40+ years. Oh, Jim Harkema.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2021 06:59 AM by Bob Wickersham.)
09-15-2021 06:53 AM
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Post: #32
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-14-2021 08:24 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 07:11 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 11:51 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 10:13 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Per Tony Paul, Creighton’s contract will automatically be extended by a year every time he makes a bowl.

https://twitter.com/tonypaul1984/status/...60077?s=21

If you found Murphy’s 20-win clause absurd but are ok with this, I don’t know what to tell you.

I think theres a pretty big difference between winning 20 games in college with a bunch of gimmes against NAIA schools and going bowling

Care to elaborate on how it’s a “big difference”? Because I see accepting mediocrity as the standard in both cases. Go 3-1 against a vanilla OOC schedule, then all you need to do is win 3 conference games to be bowl eligible. Kinda like 2019.

One caveat, Sam. Typically we need to win 7 games, unless we get break with a shortage of eligibles.

We went 3-5 in MAC play and STILL went bowling. I’d disagree with your caveat, since we’ve gone bowling every year we’ve been eligible to do so, at least since there have been this many bowls…I can’t speak to the 80’s and 90’s, or whatever.

While I love that there are tons of bowls (who doesn’t want more football?), I think it’s ridiculous to automatically extend someone’s contract for merely making one, when more than half of FBS teams are invited. It’s accepting mediocrity as the bar for success. It would’ve made more sense to automatically extend at 7 or (preferably) 8 wins. But we are clearly so scared to go back to the days of Creighton’s predecessors that we will accept average football for as long as Creighton wants to be here.
09-15-2021 07:00 AM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: New Contract for CC
Creighton has done more to improve EMU Athletics image than Rob Murphy ever did on the field and off.
09-15-2021 09:10 AM
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Post: #34
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-15-2021 07:00 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 08:24 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 07:11 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 11:51 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(09-14-2021 10:13 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Per Tony Paul, Creighton’s contract will automatically be extended by a year every time he makes a bowl.

https://twitter.com/tonypaul1984/status/...60077?s=21

If you found Murphy’s 20-win clause absurd but are ok with this, I don’t know what to tell you.

I think theres a pretty big difference between winning 20 games in college with a bunch of gimmes against NAIA schools and going bowling

Care to elaborate on how it’s a “big difference”? Because I see accepting mediocrity as the standard in both cases. Go 3-1 against a vanilla OOC schedule, then all you need to do is win 3 conference games to be bowl eligible. Kinda like 2019.

One caveat, Sam. Typically we need to win 7 games, unless we get break with a shortage of eligibles.

We went 3-5 in MAC play and STILL went bowling. I’d disagree with your caveat, since we’ve gone bowling every year we’ve been eligible to do so, at least since there have been this many bowls…I can’t speak to the 80’s and 90’s, or whatever.

While I love that there are tons of bowls (who doesn’t want more football?), I think it’s ridiculous to automatically extend someone’s contract for merely making one, when more than half of FBS teams are invited. It’s accepting mediocrity as the bar for success. It would’ve made more sense to automatically extend at 7 or (preferably) 8 wins. But we are clearly so scared to go back to the days of Creighton’s predecessors that we will accept average football for as long as Creighton wants to be here.
100 percent agree! We're on the same page! CC, This's his make it or break it year! He has a losing record the past 5 years! Also, A losing MAC record! We'll accept mediocrity!
A bowl game equals an extension!
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2021 09:16 AM by EMUGLORYDAYSthe90's.)
09-15-2021 09:15 AM
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Post: #35
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-15-2021 09:10 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Creighton has done more to improve EMU Athletics image than Rob Murphy ever did on the field and off.

I’ll agree when it comes to the program’s perception. Creighton has been a great ambassador for the school and a driving force behind improvements made to the stadium. But I disagree when it comes to the actual games.

Neither guy could get over the hump, despite having the talent to do so, specifically Murphy in 13-14/17-18 and Creighton in 2018. Those were the only times either guy finished above .500 in conference play. You could see when the wheels started to fall off of Murphy’s wagon. I don’t think we are there yet with Creighton, but it’s been a brutal start to the season. One guy wasn’t retained when that happened. The other gets an extension on the downslope.

I truly hope he proves me wrong.
09-15-2021 11:01 AM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-15-2021 11:01 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 09:10 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Creighton has done more to improve EMU Athletics image than Rob Murphy ever did on the field and off.

I’ll agree when it comes to the program’s perception. Creighton has been a great ambassador for the school and a driving force behind improvements made to the stadium. But I disagree when it comes to the actual games.

Neither guy could get over the hump, despite having the talent to do so, specifically Murphy in 13-14/17-18 and Creighton in 2018. Those were the only times either guy finished above .500 in conference play. You could see when the wheels started to fall off of Murphy’s wagon. I don’t think we are there yet with Creighton, but it’s been a brutal start to the season. One guy wasn’t retained when that happened. The other gets an extension on the downslope.

I truly hope he proves me wrong.

Beating an FCS team and losing to a top 20 P5 team isn't the wheels falling off this season yet despite losing 75% of your starting secondary again for two years in a row. I predicted 6-6 and that is still possible. I think Hutchison should be the QB and ditch the stereo concept. Works great for music but not quarterbacks.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2021 01:40 PM by emu79.)
09-15-2021 11:37 AM
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dansplaining Online
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Post: #37
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-15-2021 11:37 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 11:01 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 09:10 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Creighton has done more to improve EMU Athletics image than Rob Murphy ever did on the field and off.

I’ll agree when it comes to the program’s perception. Creighton has been a great ambassador for the school and a driving force behind improvements made to the stadium. But I disagree when it comes to the actual games.

Neither guy could get over the hump, despite having the talent to do so, specifically Murphy in 13-14/17-18 and Creighton in 2018. Those were the only times either guy finished above .500 in conference play. You could see when the wheels started to fall off of Murphy’s wagon. I don’t think we are there yet with Creighton, but it’s been a brutal start to the season. One guy wasn’t retained when that happened. The other gets an extension on the downslope.

I truly hope he proves me wrong.

Beating an FCS team and losing to a top 20 P5 team isn't the wheels falling off thiscseason yet despite losing 75% of your starting secondary again for two years in a row. I predicted 6-6 and that is still possible. I think Hutchison should be the QB and ditch the stereo concept. Works great for music but not quarterbacks.

CC provides a value that is separate from wins and losses. he's rewarded for that.
09-15-2021 11:49 AM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #38
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-15-2021 11:49 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 11:37 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 11:01 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 09:10 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Creighton has done more to improve EMU Athletics image than Rob Murphy ever did on the field and off.

I’ll agree when it comes to the program’s perception. Creighton has been a great ambassador for the school and a driving force behind improvements made to the stadium. But I disagree when it comes to the actual games.

Neither guy could get over the hump, despite having the talent to do so, specifically Murphy in 13-14/17-18 and Creighton in 2018. Those were the only times either guy finished above .500 in conference play. You could see when the wheels started to fall off of Murphy’s wagon. I don’t think we are there yet with Creighton, but it’s been a brutal start to the season. One guy wasn’t retained when that happened. The other gets an extension on the downslope.

I truly hope he proves me wrong.

Beating an FCS team and losing to a top 20 P5 team isn't the wheels falling off thiscseason yet despite losing 75% of your starting secondary again for two years in a row. I predicted 6-6 and that is still possible. I think Hutchison should be the QB and ditch the stereo concept. Works great for music but not quarterbacks.

CC provides a value that is separate from wins and losses. he's rewarded for that.

I probably could claim the title as Chris Creighton's biggest fan. That said, Sam has a point. Why automatically offer another year of longevity for such a small accomplishment? There simply is no reason to bind the University to the coach for an additional year, if EMU is still thrilled with the job he is doing as I am now, they can do that on their own.

Let's use Harkema as an example. He inherited a horrible program like Creighton, was competitive by year four and then had three VERY good years. Reportedly he was runner-up choice to Barry Alvarez for the Wisconsin HC position after that last good season. Perhaps not getting that job was the impetus, but in any case Jim lost the fire in his belly and went 5-12-1 in the MAC after that. I simply do not think that EMU should binding themselves to any existing coach for more than three years as a result.
09-15-2021 04:24 PM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-15-2021 04:24 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 11:49 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 11:37 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 11:01 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 09:10 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Creighton has done more to improve EMU Athletics image than Rob Murphy ever did on the field and off.

I’ll agree when it comes to the program’s perception. Creighton has been a great ambassador for the school and a driving force behind improvements made to the stadium. But I disagree when it comes to the actual games.

Neither guy could get over the hump, despite having the talent to do so, specifically Murphy in 13-14/17-18 and Creighton in 2018. Those were the only times either guy finished above .500 in conference play. You could see when the wheels started to fall off of Murphy’s wagon. I don’t think we are there yet with Creighton, but it’s been a brutal start to the season. One guy wasn’t retained when that happened. The other gets an extension on the downslope.

I truly hope he proves me wrong.

Beating an FCS team and losing to a top 20 P5 team isn't the wheels falling off thiscseason yet despite losing 75% of your starting secondary again for two years in a row. I predicted 6-6 and that is still possible. I think Hutchison should be the QB and ditch the stereo concept. Works great for music but not quarterbacks.

CC provides a value that is separate from wins and losses. he's rewarded for that.

I probably could claim the title as Chris Creighton's biggest fan. That said, Sam has a point. Why automatically offer another year of longevity for such a small accomplishment? There simply is no reason to bind the University to the coach for an additional year, if EMU is still thrilled with the job he is doing as I am now, they can do that on their own.

Let's use Harkema as an example. He inherited a horrible program like Creighton, was competitive by year four and then had three VERY good years. Reportedly he was runner-up choice to Barry Alvarez for the Wisconsin HC position after that last good season. Perhaps not getting that job was the impetus, but in any case Jim lost the fire in his belly and went 5-12-1 in the MAC after that. I simply do not think that EMU should binding themselves to any existing coach for more than three years as a result.

Yet we gave Heath a 5 year contract.
09-15-2021 05:16 PM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #40
RE: New Contract for CC
(09-15-2021 05:16 PM)emu79 Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 04:24 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 11:49 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 11:37 AM)emu79 Wrote:  
(09-15-2021 11:01 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  I’ll agree when it comes to the program’s perception. Creighton has been a great ambassador for the school and a driving force behind improvements made to the stadium. But I disagree when it comes to the actual games.

Neither guy could get over the hump, despite having the talent to do so, specifically Murphy in 13-14/17-18 and Creighton in 2018. Those were the only times either guy finished above .500 in conference play. You could see when the wheels started to fall off of Murphy’s wagon. I don’t think we are there yet with Creighton, but it’s been a brutal start to the season. One guy wasn’t retained when that happened. The other gets an extension on the downslope.

I truly hope he proves me wrong.

Beating an FCS team and losing to a top 20 P5 team isn't the wheels falling off thiscseason yet despite losing 75% of your starting secondary again for two years in a row. I predicted 6-6 and that is still possible. I think Hutchison should be the QB and ditch the stereo concept. Works great for music but not quarterbacks.

CC provides a value that is separate from wins and losses. he's rewarded for that.

I probably could claim the title as Chris Creighton's biggest fan. That said, Sam has a point. Why automatically offer another year of longevity for such a small accomplishment? There simply is no reason to bind the University to the coach for an additional year, if EMU is still thrilled with the job he is doing as I am now, they can do that on their own.

Let's use Harkema as an example. He inherited a horrible program like Creighton, was competitive by year four and then had three VERY good years. Reportedly he was runner-up choice to Barry Alvarez for the Wisconsin HC position after that last good season. Perhaps not getting that job was the impetus, but in any case Jim lost the fire in his belly and went 5-12-1 in the MAC after that. I simply do not think that EMU should binding themselves to any existing coach for more than three years as a result.

Yet we gave Heath a 5 year contract.

Keep in mind that I referenced the term "existing coach". That said, your point is well taken, Heath did not have the chops to deserve a 5 year contract.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2021 06:42 PM by Jerry Weaver.)
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