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Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
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Uncle Benjamin Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
(08-31-2021 03:11 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 03:01 PM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 02:26 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 02:00 PM)Barney Wrote:  I expect Green to start, McCaffrey to play, and for McCaffrey to become the full-time starter as soon as he gains more of a command of the system.

Agree

Agreed. I of course agree with the "Pick 1 QB" theory, but in this case I don't think it's good for team morale to hand an incoming transfer the job over seasoned veterans until he earns it on the field. He clearly hasn't yet in practice. Hopefully he'll show his stuff on gameday and earn the job.

Does anybody here remember how King Hill and Frank Ryan shared time?

That era was a completely different game: single platoon football with limited substitution. In today’s game, King would probably play defense and Frank would be the QB. That would maximize both players’ best talents.
08-31-2021 04:14 PM
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Frizzy Owl Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
(08-31-2021 03:52 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 12:43 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Tandem quarterbacks...

...the ultimate and definitive example of failing to learn from the past. No better example can be found in business or in history books.

Why do college football coaches, over and over and over again, think "this time will be different"? They get to be head football coaches in the first place by being decisive and willing to make tough decisions, but when it comes time to choose a starter they become weak-willed and passive-aggressive. Why is that?

I don't think Bloom is planning to go with duel QBs. Rather, I think he's going to use the Arkansas game as the final audition to determine who the starter will be going forward.

Preseason games are an opportunity to work the kinks out. And I agree he probably isn't planning trial by combat to resolve the matter.
(This post was last modified: 08-31-2021 04:27 PM by Frizzy Owl.)
08-31-2021 04:26 PM
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waltgreenberg Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
(08-31-2021 04:26 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 03:52 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 12:43 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Tandem quarterbacks...

...the ultimate and definitive example of failing to learn from the past. No better example can be found in business or in history books.

Why do college football coaches, over and over and over again, think "this time will be different"? They get to be head football coaches in the first place by being decisive and willing to make tough decisions, but when it comes time to choose a starter they become weak-willed and passive-aggressive. Why is that?

I don't think Bloom is planning to go with duel QBs. Rather, I think he's going to use the Arkansas game as the final audition to determine who the starter will be going forward.

Preseason games are an opportunity to work the kinks out. And I agree he probably isn't planning trial by combat to resolve the matter.

The problem with scrimmages is that hitting the QB is usually off-limits. Consequently, it's a bit difficult to judge how they react under pressure.

Having said that, McCaffrey offers the versatility and mobility that Green simply doesn't provide, and Bloom clearly loves his arm...

Quote:Nate Griffin
@coloranalyst
Rice Head Football Coach, @mbloom11, says @mccaffrey_luke, has a “howitzer” for an arm.
08-31-2021 04:57 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
(08-31-2021 03:52 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  I don't think Bloom is planning to go with duel QBs. Rather, I think he's going to use the Arkansas game as the final audition to determine who the starter will be going forward.

Will he issue them swords or pistols?
08-31-2021 05:21 PM
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mebehutchi Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
(08-31-2021 04:26 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 03:52 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 12:43 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Tandem quarterbacks...

...the ultimate and definitive example of failing to learn from the past. No better example can be found in business or in history books.

Why do college football coaches, over and over and over again, think "this time will be different"? They get to be head football coaches in the first place by being decisive and willing to make tough decisions, but when it comes time to choose a starter they become weak-willed and passive-aggressive. Why is that?

I don't think Bloom is planning to go with duel QBs. Rather, I think he's going to use the Arkansas game as the final audition to determine who the starter will be going forward.

Preseason games are an opportunity to work the kinks out. And I agree he probably isn't planning trial by combat to resolve the matter.

If we're treating this like a pre-season game we may as well have 1) kept Bailiff and 2) not play any more seasons at all at any level.
08-31-2021 05:22 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
Quote:Nate Griffin
@coloranalyst
Rice Head Football Coach, @mbloom11, says @mccaffrey_luke, has a “howitzer” for an arm.

Strictly speaking, a howitzer is an artillery piece that delivers arcing, indirect fire -- not as high-arcing as a mortar, but more so than a strictly direct-fire weapon, which is called a gun. :)
(This post was last modified: 08-31-2021 05:47 PM by georgewebb.)
08-31-2021 05:32 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
(08-31-2021 05:22 PM)mebehutchi Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 04:26 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 03:52 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 12:43 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Tandem quarterbacks...

...the ultimate and definitive example of failing to learn from the past. No better example can be found in business or in history books.

Why do college football coaches, over and over and over again, think "this time will be different"? They get to be head football coaches in the first place by being decisive and willing to make tough decisions, but when it comes time to choose a starter they become weak-willed and passive-aggressive. Why is that?

I don't think Bloom is planning to go with duel QBs. Rather, I think he's going to use the Arkansas game as the final audition to determine who the starter will be going forward.

Preseason games are an opportunity to work the kinks out. And I agree he probably isn't planning trial by combat to resolve the matter.

If we're treating this like a pre-season game we may as well have 1) kept Bailiff and 2) not play any more seasons at all at any level.

We have painted ourselves into a corner over this word "preseason".

All college coaches use the first couple of games, especially nonconference games, to tweak and work out things. That's one reason they are usually scheduled before the conference games. Arkansas will be watching certain players to see how they do. We don't get exhibition games like the pros, so the early season games do double duty. Like it or not, we have two seasons - in conference and out of it. You can call it preseason, or OOC, or Henry the VIII, but it is what it is. An early season OOC game by any other name still smells.

As for Bailiff vs. Bloomgren, what's the difference?
08-31-2021 05:40 PM
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grOWLer Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
(08-31-2021 03:11 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 03:01 PM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 02:26 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 02:00 PM)Barney Wrote:  I expect Green to start, McCaffrey to play, and for McCaffrey to become the full-time starter as soon as he gains more of a command of the system.

Agree

Agreed. I of course agree with the "Pick 1 QB" theory, but in this case I don't think it's good for team morale to hand an incoming transfer the job over seasoned veterans until he earns it on the field. He clearly hasn't yet in practice. Hopefully he'll show his stuff on gameday and earn the job.

Does anybody here remember how King Hill and Frank Ryan shared time?

I do. That was one-platoon football. Frank was not a defensive guy, lacked speed, while King was an all-around athlete who also liked to hit. I'm not sure if Neely had a system, but they seemed to almost alternate quarters, with a sub coming in for Frank when the defense was on the field. If Bill Bucek or Gordon Speer are on-line, they can fill in the detail much better than I. (I was a spectator, not on the team).
08-31-2021 05:53 PM
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Ricefootballnet Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
(08-31-2021 12:45 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 11:05 AM)dragon2owl Wrote:  Anyone going to the game?

Yup-last SWC stadium I haven't gotten to see.

Same here.

Elder and I will be covering game on sideline.
08-31-2021 10:53 PM
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owl40 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
Having played at Arkansas three times (2 in Little Rock and 1 in Fayetteville) in mid-80s to 1990, I remember some really crazy fans there. Most vivid memory of the game was in Fayetteville in 86. We were coming out of the locker room before the kickoff. In those days, there were stands in the Fayetteville end-zone so you could come out of the locker room and look-up and see the stands/fans above you.

It was a sunny day. We were about to take the field and we felt liquid coming at us from above. We looked-up and we had a Razorback fan taking care of his business..literally on top of our entire team coming out of the locker room. Had a bad taste (literally and figuratively) since that episode. Was great to beat them in Little Rock in 1990.
08-31-2021 11:05 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
(08-31-2021 10:53 PM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 12:45 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 11:05 AM)dragon2owl Wrote:  Anyone going to the game?

Yup-last SWC stadium I haven't gotten to see.

Same here.

Elder and I will be covering game on sideline.

I believe I've been to all of the stadiums used by SWC schools since 1967 through to the conference's demise in 1996. Went to War Memorial Stadium (Little Rock) in 1967 with the Rice band (flying up in DC-3s) & to then Fayetteville in 1969 (the band stayed in Fort Smith).

I've never been to UH's (errr, HISD's) Robertson Stadium, but UH didn't start playing its home games versus us until 1999, after the SWC had folded.

Have a great trip & game on Saturday.
09-01-2021 01:53 AM
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75src Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
I also went to all the SWC stadiums. Went to Jeppensen later called Robertson for a Houston Oiler game, track meet and UH game after SWC break up. Only went to TDECU for a UH spring game where I could see the whole stadium. I went to the Dynamo soccer stadium for the only UH game there which was against Cincinnati.


(09-01-2021 01:53 AM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 10:53 PM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 12:45 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 11:05 AM)dragon2owl Wrote:  Anyone going to the game?

Yup-last SWC stadium I haven't gotten to see.

Same here.

Elder and I will be covering game on sideline.

I believe I've been to all of the stadiums used by SWC schools since 1967 through to the conference's demise in 1996. Went to War Memorial Stadium (Little Rock) in 1967 with the Rice band (flying up in DC-3s) & to then Fayetteville in 1969 (the band stayed in Fort Smith).

I've never been to UH's (errr, HISD's) Robertson Stadium, but UH didn't start playing its home games versus us until 1999, after the SWC had folded.

Have a great trip & game on Saturday.
09-01-2021 02:09 AM
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75src Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
Froggy Williams credited the loss to LSU for Rice winning the rest of the games in 1949. Adjustments had been made after the LSU game.

(08-31-2021 05:40 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 05:22 PM)mebehutchi Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 04:26 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 03:52 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 12:43 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Tandem quarterbacks...

...the ultimate and definitive example of failing to learn from the past. No better example can be found in business or in history books.

Why do college football coaches, over and over and over again, think "this time will be different"? They get to be head football coaches in the first place by being decisive and willing to make tough decisions, but when it comes time to choose a starter they become weak-willed and passive-aggressive. Why is that?

I don't think Bloom is planning to go with duel QBs. Rather, I think he's going to use the Arkansas game as the final audition to determine who the starter will be going forward.

Preseason games are an opportunity to work the kinks out. And I agree he probably isn't planning trial by combat to resolve the matter.

If we're treating this like a pre-season game we may as well have 1) kept Bailiff and 2) not play any more seasons at all at any level.

We have painted ourselves into a corner over this word "preseason".

All college coaches use the first couple of games, especially nonconference games, to tweak and work out things. That's one reason they are usually scheduled before the conference games. Arkansas will be watching certain players to see how they do. We don't get exhibition games like the pros, so the early season games do double duty. Like it or not, we have two seasons - in conference and out of it. You can call it preseason, or OOC, or Henry the VIII, but it is what it is. An early season OOC game by any other name still smells.

As for Bailiff vs. Bloomgren, what's the difference?
09-01-2021 02:12 AM
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75src Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
Both Frank and King later had long careers as NFL QBs.

(08-31-2021 04:14 PM)Uncle Benjamin Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 03:11 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 03:01 PM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 02:26 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 02:00 PM)Barney Wrote:  I expect Green to start, McCaffrey to play, and for McCaffrey to become the full-time starter as soon as he gains more of a command of the system.

Agree

Agreed. I of course agree with the "Pick 1 QB" theory, but in this case I don't think it's good for team morale to hand an incoming transfer the job over seasoned veterans until he earns it on the field. He clearly hasn't yet in practice. Hopefully he'll show his stuff on gameday and earn the job.

Does anybody here remember how King Hill and Frank Ryan shared time?

That era was a completely different game: single platoon football with limited substitution. In today’s game, King would probably play defense and Frank would be the QB. That would maximize both players’ best talents.
09-01-2021 02:16 AM
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Ourland Offline
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RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
Let's go OWLS!!!! This is the year!!!!
09-01-2021 07:52 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #56
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
(08-31-2021 03:52 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  I don't think Bloom is planning to go with duel QBs. Rather, I think he's going to use the Arkansas game as the final audition to determine who the starter will be going forward.

And if neither one steps up and wins the job, what then?

Or what if one outplays the other, and the following week falls flat on his face?
09-01-2021 07:55 AM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
I don't have a problem with rotating QBs, particularly so early in the season. Green is much improved, and he has the offense down, while McCaffrey is the QB with more ability, who is learning. Having two good QBs is a good problem. Before, all the options were terrible. It was a hell of a dilemma. None of them stepped up to take the position, other than Collins.
09-01-2021 08:05 AM
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mebehutchi Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
(09-01-2021 02:12 AM)75src Wrote:  Froggy Williams credited the loss to LSU for Rice winning the rest of the games in 1949. Adjustments had been made after the LSU game.

(08-31-2021 05:40 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 05:22 PM)mebehutchi Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 04:26 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-31-2021 03:52 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  I don't think Bloom is planning to go with duel QBs. Rather, I think he's going to use the Arkansas game as the final audition to determine who the starter will be going forward.

Preseason games are an opportunity to work the kinks out. And I agree he probably isn't planning trial by combat to resolve the matter.

If we're treating this like a pre-season game we may as well have 1) kept Bailiff and 2) not play any more seasons at all at any level.

We have painted ourselves into a corner over this word "preseason".

All college coaches use the first couple of games, especially nonconference games, to tweak and work out things. That's one reason they are usually scheduled before the conference games. Arkansas will be watching certain players to see how they do. We don't get exhibition games like the pros, so the early season games do double duty. Like it or not, we have two seasons - in conference and out of it. You can call it preseason, or OOC, or Henry the VIII, but it is what it is. An early season OOC game by any other name still smells.

As for Bailiff vs. Bloomgren, what's the difference?

The difference for us is that the only time to actually make an impression on the greater college football world in the context of the current sea change is our out of conference schedule. We need to be more ready for these games not less and not working kinks out. That's the reality, and if Bloom is no more ready than DB then the only difference is that one of them can't seem to even get the "regular season" right.
09-01-2021 08:05 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #59
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
(09-01-2021 08:05 AM)mebehutchi Wrote:  The difference for us is that the only time to actually make an impression on the greater college football world in the context of the current sea change is our out of conference schedule. We need to be more ready for these games not less and not working kinks out. That's the reality, and if Bloom is no more ready than DB then the only difference is that one of them can't seem to even get the "regular season" right.

But here's the problem, Hutch. We are a long way from being able to make any kind of splash in those games today. We've got to build to get to the point where we can change that.

We've had the old argument about whether it is more important to win CUSA or to register a "signature" win against a P5. They are the same thing. We won't be good enough to beat a P5 until we are good enough to win CUSA. It doesn't matter which one you consider most important, because doing one is the best way to do the other. Right now we have to be all about the business of getting better.

TCU had a bunch of "signature" wins from the Sun Bowl win over Southern Cal in 1998 until the Rose Bowl win over Wisconsin in 2011. And they got invited to step up in conference affiliation twice in that time frame. But the reason they were signature wins was because TCU was backing them up with 9, 10, 11, and 12 win regular seasons.

If we come up with a decade of 9-3, 10-2, 11-1, and 12-0 regular seasons, like TCU did, we will get our share of "signature" wins--and we will attract the attention of some conference that we would want to belong to. But we have to do both. Right now, to paraphrase Groucho Marx talking about country clubs, why would we want to belong to any conference that would be willing to have us as a member?

And treating those games as "preseason" games may be the best way to build to that point. My problem with Bailiff is that he called them "preseason" games but didn't treat them the way the NFL treats preseason games. Play a bunch of people, find out what you've got. Instead he just kept sending the first team out there all game, wore them down, and then used the "preseason" excuse for the loss. There is no excuse for wearing a player out, and getting him hurt, in a game you can't win, when there are plenty of games on the schedule that you can win, if you keep that player healthy.
09-01-2021 08:23 AM
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mebehutchi Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Week 1 at Arkansas pregame thoughts
(09-01-2021 08:23 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-01-2021 08:05 AM)mebehutchi Wrote:  The difference for us is that the only time to actually make an impression on the greater college football world in the context of the current sea change is our out of conference schedule. We need to be more ready for these games not less and not working kinks out. That's the reality, and if Bloom is no more ready than DB then the only difference is that one of them can't seem to even get the "regular season" right.

But here's the problem, Hutch. We are a long way from being able to make any kind of splash in those games today. We've got to build to get to the point where we can change that.

We've had the old argument about whether it is more important to win CUSA or to register a "signature" win against a P5. They are the same thing. We won't be good enough to beat a P5 until we are good enough to win CUSA. It doesn't matter which one you consider most important, because doing one is the best way to do the other. Right now we have to be all about the business of getting better.

TCU had a bunch of "signature" wins from the Sun Bowl win over Southern Cal in 1998 until the Rose Bowl win over Wisconsin in 2011. And they got invited to step up in conference affiliation twice in that time frame. But the reason they were signature wins was because TCU was backing them up with 9, 10, 11, and 12 win regular seasons.

If we come up with a decade of 9-3, 10-2, 11-1, and 12-0 regular seasons, like TCU did, we will get our share of "signature" wins--and we will attract the attention of some conference that we would want to belong to. But we have to do both. Right now, to paraphrase Groucho Marx talking about country clubs, why would we want to belong to any conference that would be willing to have us as a member?

And treating those games as "preseason" games may be the best way to build to that point. My problem with Bailiff is that he called them "preseason" games but didn't treat them the way the NFL treats preseason games. Play a bunch of people, find out what you've got. Instead he just kept sending the first team out there all game, wore them down, and then used the "preseason" excuse for the loss. There is no excuse for wearing a player out, and getting him hurt, in a game you can't win, when there are plenty of games on the schedule that you can win, if you keep that player healthy.

I think that's generally fair, but it's also year four, which is an eternity in bigtime college football turnaround parlance, and if we can't even compete in these games we'll be starting over anew yet again. I also don't think it's too much to ask with plenty of game tape and plenty of reps on our QB's to hand one of them the game ball and say it's your job to lose today. Having been in the situation not having that defined is a bad situation for both QBs and the team. And, I think this indecision has something to do with why we can't compete (ie still insisting on fitting the QB to a "system" that doesn't seem to be a system if it hasn't worked rather than system to QB).
09-01-2021 08:57 AM
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