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LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 12:26 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  It’s the reverse lottery if you are pretty much otherwise healthy and you catch Covid and die.

Not even close. I don't know anyone who's won a large jackpot I know several of which you describe.
08-25-2021 12:29 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 12:26 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  It’s the reverse lottery if you are pretty much otherwise healthy and you catch Covid and die.

In my county I had only a slightly greater percentage chance of dying from Covid last year as I did of dying from heat stroke.

How good are you at doing math and converting things into percentages?

I ask because I'm wondering what the denominators of your claim is. Everyone in your county experiences a heatwave at the same time, how many got covid?
08-25-2021 12:32 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
Ao they were not overnight and had no other health conditions? If so, you know multiple unlucky folka when you look at the stats.
08-25-2021 12:32 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 12:32 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(08-25-2021 12:26 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  It’s the reverse lottery if you are pretty much otherwise healthy and you catch Covid and die.

In my county I had only a slightly greater percentage chance of dying from Covid last year as I did of dying from heat stroke.

How good are you at doing math and converting things into percentages?

I ask because I'm wondering what the denominators of your claim is. Everyone in your county experiences a heatwave at the same time, how many got covid?

Total population and numbers of deaths for each cause listed as a primary morbidity. Easy to deduce the percentage of said population that dies from each in that particular year.

I live in northern Michigan so it’s not like heat waves are stacking em up at the morgue on the regular, either.
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2021 12:37 PM by rath v2.0.)
08-25-2021 12:35 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 12:32 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Ao they were not overnight and had no other health conditions? If so, you know multiple unlucky folka when you look at the stats.

Well some were 60-65. Several hundred years ago that may have been a comorbidity but it shouldn't today.

Just this week my friend's son's baseball coach died about 8 days after first having symptoms. 32 and healthy.

You can throw last years stats out the window, Delta is a different animal.
08-25-2021 12:39 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
I'm actually surprised that more universities aren't requiring vaccinations...for their students, employees and fans who attend games at university venues.

The Supreme Court (via Amy Coney Barrett's unwillingness to hear IU students' concerns) has signaled that university vaccination requirements are OK. The Pfizer vaccine has now gotten full FDA approval. Large employers, commercial and government, are increasingly implementing requirements.

From ethical and financial perspectives, mandates should be right up university wheel-houses. Hospitalizations and deaths skew dramatically to the unvaccinated. Vaccines are free to consumers and cost society less than $20; while hospitalizations with ventilators are well into six figures.

At the end of the day, LSU administrators will be seen as civic minded leaders by most fans for this requirement.
08-25-2021 12:47 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 12:39 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(08-25-2021 12:32 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Ao they were not overnight and had no other health conditions? If so, you know multiple unlucky folka when you look at the stats.

Well some were 60-65. Several hundred years ago that may have been a comorbidity but it shouldn't today.

Just this week my friend's son's baseball coach died about 8 days after first having symptoms. 32 and healthy.

You can throw last years stats out the window, Delta is a different animal.

Age is not a comorbidity in and of itself...just as you get older, people tend to pick up more of those along the way, be it a high BMI %, diabetes, hypertension, cardio pulmonary issues, etc. #1 reason why it hits the elderly so hard. Per the CDC the average number of co-morbidities listed on all death certificates with Covid listed to date has been 4.0

When you pull out people with co-morbidities, the percentages of people who have tested positive who died is a couple zeros to the right of the decimal point. I’d say that is the reverse lottery when talking about risk of death. Perhaps my risk assessment comfort level is just a lot different than other folks’.

I took this off topic. I apologize.
08-25-2021 12:57 PM
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Post: #68
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 10:05 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Every ICU in the country is designed to operate at percentages approaching full capacity. It’s a $$ loser if it doesn’t and that dog don’t hunt.

Most hospitals have denoted other floors/wings to be able to be quickly converted to ICU’s in the event of mass casualty event, etc. those are the numbers to pay attention to. Regular ICU isn’t.

In Houston their stage II and III capacity doubled the normal capacity.
08-25-2021 12:59 PM
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Post: #69
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 12:47 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  I'm actually surprised that more universities aren't requiring vaccinations...for their students, employees and fans who attend games at university venues.

The Supreme Court (via Amy Coney Barrett's unwillingness to hear IU students' concerns) has signaled that university vaccination requirements are OK. The Pfizer vaccine has now gotten full FDA approval. Large employers, commercial and government, are increasingly implementing requirements.

From ethical and financial perspectives, mandates should be right up university wheel-houses. Hospitalizations and deaths skew dramatically to the unvaccinated. Vaccines are free to consumers and cost society less than $20; while hospitalizations with ventilators are well into six figures.

At the end of the day, LSU administrators will be seen as civic minded leaders by most fans for this requirement.

Some will see them as civic minded. Don't be too sure it is most. Others will see them as closet Nazis. Others will see them as mindless sheep following CNN logic.
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08-25-2021 01:03 PM
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b2b Offline
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LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 12:01 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:44 PM)b2b Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:34 PM)jhn31 Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:27 PM)b2b Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:19 PM)jhn31 Wrote:  You could also, ya know, get the vaccine. Then no more worries about football, tests or dying of COVID.
If you got a vaccine why do you care? If the vaccine is available and you chose not to get it why do you care?

Edit - It's really not a vaccine. I got it fwiw.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

I would rather people not die needlessly, but in the context of his point, it's only an inconvenience for the unvaccinated. A person who's had the shot will never have to spend their days before the game getting tested and proving they're negative. They can go into any grocery store, drug store, or doctor's office and get this taken care of in minutes. And (less important than LSU football of course) they probably won't ever show any symptoms and almost certainly won't die if they do. Win-win-win all around, or if they don't like winning, I guess it's burn an afternoon every week ?‍
Unvaccinated people who show symptoms also almost never die.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

If you consider at least 650,000 (and realistically more like a million) dead almost never...


Out of a nation of about 380 million. How many other ways do people die in an average year? Are we ahead of that? How far?
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2021 01:15 PM by b2b.)
08-25-2021 01:10 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #71
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 03:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 06:54 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  But the question then becomes if the pandemic changes the rules then how far are we allowed to go to ensure ICU access or to reduce the possibility that anyone might contract COVID? Yes, that's a serious question.

Changes what rules? Governments have had the power to require vaccination since colonial times. If the State of Louisiana allows LSU to require proof of vaccination, well, we are all born into places that had rules put into place before we were born, and we don't always like it. That's life.

The rules, in this case, being moral arguments we make over how far a government or institution is allowed to overstep standard operations in order to address a particular issue.

The nature of the question is this: if public health is a matter of prime importance then what constitutes a justification for creating impediments? Do we consider people who eat poorly, and thus occupy medical resources that might be better used to treat conditions that aren't a result of personal choices, a population that needs to have their behavior impeded or not? What about smokers? What about people driving over the speed limit who get themselves hurt in a car accident? You can see where I'm going with that and there are numerous other examples.

More to the point, what about the fact that numerous hospitals have closed in the last decade plus? Who do we hold responsible for reducing the average medical resources available in given communities? Is it political? Economic? Dumb luck? Are we allowed to charge responsible parties with a degree of selfishness and institutionally impede their choices from here on out?

As my initial point on that response noted, the argument could apply to almost anything.
08-25-2021 04:27 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #72
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 12:39 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(08-25-2021 12:32 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Ao they were not overnight and had no other health conditions? If so, you know multiple unlucky folka when you look at the stats.

Well some were 60-65. Several hundred years ago that may have been a comorbidity but it shouldn't today.

Just this week my friend's son's baseball coach died about 8 days after first having symptoms. 32 and healthy.

You can throw last years stats out the window, Delta is a different animal.

Yes, in 2020 you rarely saw younger, healthy white people dying (though younger, healthy non-whites had their lives taken). Now you're seeing that happen with the Delta variant.
08-25-2021 04:52 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #73
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 12:02 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(08-25-2021 12:01 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:44 PM)b2b Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:34 PM)jhn31 Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:27 PM)b2b Wrote:  If you got a vaccine why do you care? If the vaccine is available and you chose not to get it why do you care?

Edit - It's really not a vaccine. I got it fwiw.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

I would rather people not die needlessly, but in the context of his point, it's only an inconvenience for the unvaccinated. A person who's had the shot will never have to spend their days before the game getting tested and proving they're negative. They can go into any grocery store, drug store, or doctor's office and get this taken care of in minutes. And (less important than LSU football of course) they probably won't ever show any symptoms and almost certainly won't die if they do. Win-win-win all around, or if they don't like winning, I guess it's burn an afternoon every week ?‍
Unvaccinated people who show symptoms also almost never die.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

If you consider at least 650,000 (and realistically more like a million) dead almost never...

How good at you at doing math and converting things to percentages?

Better than you, apparently
08-25-2021 07:02 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #74
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 12:32 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Ao they were not overnight and had no other health conditions? If so, you know multiple unlucky folka when you look at the stats.

What difference does that make? Is it ok they died? And yes, plenty of people in excellent health have died from Covid.

Did you know that Covid was the leading cause of death among Law Enforcement Officers by a 2-1 margin?

One of those was a healthy fitness buff friend of mine. No pre-existing conditions. Died in the line of duty from Covid.
08-25-2021 07:05 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #75
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 01:10 PM)b2b Wrote:  
(08-25-2021 12:01 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:44 PM)b2b Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:34 PM)jhn31 Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:27 PM)b2b Wrote:  If you got a vaccine why do you care? If the vaccine is available and you chose not to get it why do you care?

Edit - It's really not a vaccine. I got it fwiw.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

I would rather people not die needlessly, but in the context of his point, it's only an inconvenience for the unvaccinated. A person who's had the shot will never have to spend their days before the game getting tested and proving they're negative. They can go into any grocery store, drug store, or doctor's office and get this taken care of in minutes. And (less important than LSU football of course) they probably won't ever show any symptoms and almost certainly won't die if they do. Win-win-win all around, or if they don't like winning, I guess it's burn an afternoon every week ?‍
Unvaccinated people who show symptoms also almost never die.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

If you consider at least 650,000 (and realistically more like a million) dead almost never...


Out of a nation of about 380 million. How many other ways do people die in an average year? Are we ahead of that? How far?

Those are all excess deaths. One million people died last year more than normal.

Are you ok with that?
08-25-2021 07:07 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #76
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 07:07 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(08-25-2021 01:10 PM)b2b Wrote:  
(08-25-2021 12:01 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:44 PM)b2b Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:34 PM)jhn31 Wrote:  I would rather people not die needlessly, but in the context of his point, it's only an inconvenience for the unvaccinated. A person who's had the shot will never have to spend their days before the game getting tested and proving they're negative. They can go into any grocery store, drug store, or doctor's office and get this taken care of in minutes. And (less important than LSU football of course) they probably won't ever show any symptoms and almost certainly won't die if they do. Win-win-win all around, or if they don't like winning, I guess it's burn an afternoon every week ?‍
Unvaccinated people who show symptoms also almost never die.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

If you consider at least 650,000 (and realistically more like a million) dead almost never...


Out of a nation of about 380 million. How many other ways do people die in an average year? Are we ahead of that? How far?

Those are all excess deaths. One million people died last year more than normal.

Are you ok with that?

One million? The sources I've seen, such as the below, put it about 550,000, with about 30% of that increase not attributed to the virus.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fu...le/2778234
08-26-2021 11:06 AM
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Post: #77
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
(08-25-2021 07:07 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(08-25-2021 01:10 PM)b2b Wrote:  
(08-25-2021 12:01 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:44 PM)b2b Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 05:34 PM)jhn31 Wrote:  I would rather people not die needlessly, but in the context of his point, it's only an inconvenience for the unvaccinated. A person who's had the shot will never have to spend their days before the game getting tested and proving they're negative. They can go into any grocery store, drug store, or doctor's office and get this taken care of in minutes. And (less important than LSU football of course) they probably won't ever show any symptoms and almost certainly won't die if they do. Win-win-win all around, or if they don't like winning, I guess it's burn an afternoon every week ?‍
Unvaccinated people who show symptoms also almost never die.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

If you consider at least 650,000 (and realistically more like a million) dead almost never...


Out of a nation of about 380 million. How many other ways do people die in an average year? Are we ahead of that? How far?

Those are all excess deaths. One million people died last year more than normal.

Are you ok with that?

Are you ok with 90,000 fans in a football stadium knowing that even if all are vaccinated it increases the risk of transmission? Probably a whole lot more risk than if you limit it to 20,000 with no vaccination requirement. And certainly vastly more risk than having no fans.
08-26-2021 12:25 PM
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e-parade Offline
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Post: #78
RE: LSU to require proof of vaccination to attend LSU Football Games
My personal opinion is that there should be no fans until the spread is permanently under control, but there's no money in that so it clearly won't happen.

I'd prefer, regardless of number of fans allowed at each game, that each game have a vaccination or negative test result requirement - the fewer fans the better.


But again, there's little money in that, so there will be a desire to maximize the number of fans at each game as much as possible.
08-26-2021 01:04 PM
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