(08-22-2021 10:37 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  That’s not the scenario set by the OP. The scenario in the OP is the G5 or G6 is a free standing division with its own playoff. It would not be part of the future 12 team CFP (assuming that’s even the format for a P4 break away playoff).

Exactly. The OP is proposing an alternative to participation in the CFP, which is inferior from the perspective of both the R8 and the Go5 to participating in the CFP. However, the OP is arguing that it would be superior to participating in the CFP.

Quote: I’m assuming the only way this scenario plays out is the G6 is left behind by the P4—I cant imagine the G6 voluntarily choosing to separate from the P4.

So you are assuming a different scenario from the OP, who is proposing that the Group of Five recruit the Big12 to join them in voluntarily separating from the P4.

It’s all just wait and see what’s fixin to happen is anybody’s guess
I feel like there’s going to be a new structure but the same g5 left outs with some kind of insensitive to remain passive to the A conferences
I would like to see an expanded playoffs of 12 would be a very good alternative to a G6 separation, certainly less chance of failure

(08-23-2021 01:26 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-22-2021 10:37 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  That’s not the scenario set by the OP. The scenario in the OP is the G5 or G6 is a free standing division with its own playoff. It would not be part of the future 12 team CFP (assuming that’s even the format for a P4 break away playoff).

Exactly. The OP is proposing an alternative to participation in the CFP, which is inferior from the perspective of both the R8 and the Go5 to participating in the CFP. However, the OP is arguing that it would be superior to participating in the CFP.

Quote: I’m assuming the only way this scenario plays out is the G6 is left behind by the P4—I cant imagine the G6 voluntarily choosing to separate from the P4.

So you are assuming a different scenario from the OP, who is proposing that the Group of Five recruit the Big12 to join them in voluntarily separating from the P4.

No—like you I see it as inferior to participation in the CFP with the P4—thus im merely stating a G6 break away would likely never happen voluntarily.

There are almost no pros and a whole lot of cons.

I think its possible they could do better tv contract wise if they were willing to play football in the spring when they wouldn't have much competition.

(08-23-2021 11:41 AM)Win5002 Wrote:  I think its possible they could do better tv contract wise if they were willing to play football in the spring when they wouldn't have much competition.

Spring league is a no go. Football is a fall sport and needs to stay that way.

(08-23-2021 10:44 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  No—like you I see it as inferior to participation in the CFP with the P4—thus im merely stating a G6 break away would likely never happen voluntarily.

Or in terms of the question posed in the OP,

Quote: what are the chances FOX or CBS or NBC or god forbid espn sign up a tv package that’s enough to make it worthwhile for said conferences to go for it

... the chances of that making it worthwhile to break away from the CFP system is nil or negligible.

(08-23-2021 02:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 10:44 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  No—like you I see it as inferior to participation in the CFP with the P4—thus im merely stating a G6 break away would likely never happen voluntarily.

Or in terms of the question posed in the OP,

Quote: what are the chances FOX or CBS or NBC or god forbid espn sign up a tv package that’s enough to make it worthwhile for said conferences to go for it

... the chances of that making it worthwhile to break away from the CFP system is nil or negligible.

this is true, nil or negligible, but if the left outs continue to grow in numbers like we’re seeing with the b-12 left outs it could reach critical mass and eventually have value in shear eyeballs alone that adds up to something worthy of broadcasting

(08-23-2021 11:47 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 02:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 10:44 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  No—like you I see it as inferior to participation in the CFP with the P4—thus im merely stating a G6 break away would likely never happen voluntarily.

Or in terms of the question posed in the OP,

Quote: what are the chances FOX or CBS or NBC or god forbid espn sign up a tv package that’s enough to make it worthwhile for said conferences to go for it

... the chances of that making it worthwhile to break away from the CFP system is nil or negligible.

this is true, nil or negligible, but if the left outs continue to grow in numbers like we’re seeing with the b-12 left outs it could reach critical mass and eventually have value in shear eyeballs alone that adds up to something worthy of broadcasting

Just depends. Assuming the final eventual replacement for the current CFP offers a legit path to the playoff---who cares? In my opinion, one of the greatest factors retarding the development of G5 conferences is a complete lack of access to the "real" post season (the playoff). If you can get to the playoff from your G5 conference---then life in the G5 isnt really all that horrible. Yeah--those G5 schools and conferences will make less--but thats always been the case. At least they will finally be able to start each season with the real and legitimate hope that they will make the playoff---and that very basic expectation at the start of each season is a key ingredient to attracting better talent and building larger fan bases.

(08-23-2021 11:47 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 02:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 10:44 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  No—like you I see it as inferior to participation in the CFP with the P4—thus im merely stating a G6 break away would likely never happen voluntarily.

Or in terms of the question posed in the OP,

Quote: what are the chances FOX or CBS or NBC or god forbid espn sign up a tv package that’s enough to make it worthwhile for said conferences to go for it

... the chances of that making it worthwhile to break away from the CFP system is nil or negligible.

this is true, nil or negligible, but if the left outs continue to grow in numbers like we’re seeing with the b-12 left outs it could reach critical mass and eventually have value in shear eyeballs alone that adds up to something worthy of broadcasting

But the present proposal current being worked through guarantees that they are not left out.

To the extent extent that media partners will want to include them in a championship of some kind if they are left out of the CFP12, to the same extent the media partners will not want to leave them out of the CFP12.

So include them as is presently proposed -- with only random discussion board speculation regarding leaving them out -- and that's it. The entire issue does not arise.

(08-23-2021 11:47 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 02:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 10:44 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  No—like you I see it as inferior to participation in the CFP with the P4—thus im merely stating a G6 break away would likely never happen voluntarily.

Or in terms of the question posed in the OP,

Quote: what are the chances FOX or CBS or NBC or god forbid espn sign up a tv package that’s enough to make it worthwhile for said conferences to go for it

... the chances of that making it worthwhile to break away from the CFP system is nil or negligible.

this is true, nil or negligible, but if the left outs continue to grow in numbers like we’re seeing with the b-12 left outs it could reach critical mass and eventually have value in shear eyeballs alone that adds up to something worthy of broadcasting

But the present proposal current being worked through guarantees that they are not left out.

To the extent extent that media partners will want to include them in a championship of some kind if they are left out of the CFP12, to the same or greater extent the media partners will not want to leave them out of the CFP12.

So include them as is presently proposed -- with only random discussion board speculation regarding leaving them out -- and that's it. The entire issue does not arise.

(08-24-2021 12:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 11:47 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 02:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 10:44 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  No—like you I see it as inferior to participation in the CFP with the P4—thus im merely stating a G6 break away would likely never happen voluntarily.

Or in terms of the question posed in the OP,

Quote: what are the chances FOX or CBS or NBC or god forbid espn sign up a tv package that’s enough to make it worthwhile for said conferences to go for it

... the chances of that making it worthwhile to break away from the CFP system is nil or negligible.

this is true, nil or negligible, but if the left outs continue to grow in numbers like we’re seeing with the b-12 left outs it could reach critical mass and eventually have value in shear eyeballs alone that adds up to something worthy of broadcasting

Just depends. Assuming the final eventual replacement for the current CFP offers a legit path to the playoff---who cares? In my opinion, one of the greatest factor retarding the development of G5 conferences is a complete lack of access to the "real" post season (the playoff). If you can get to the playoff from your G5 conference---then life in the G5 isnt really all that horrible. Yeah--those G5 schools and conferences will make less--but thats always been the case. At least they will finally be able to start each season with the real and legitimate hope that they will make the playoff---and that very basic expectation at the start of each season is a key ingredient to attracting better talent and building larger fan bases.

Ok so this is all what i think also, if they stick with the top rated 6 conference champs iam good with that, sure hope there’s no committee
recruiting gets easier too, yes and this allows G schools to grow naturally instead of being held down
let me be clear here anything less than at least 6 top conference champs and all bets are off imo and go to the free and open market

(08-24-2021 06:42 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(08-24-2021 12:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 11:47 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 02:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 10:44 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  No—like you I see it as inferior to participation in the CFP with the P4—thus im merely stating a G6 break away would likely never happen voluntarily.

Or in terms of the question posed in the OP,

Quote: what are the chances FOX or CBS or NBC or god forbid espn sign up a tv package that’s enough to make it worthwhile for said conferences to go for it

... the chances of that making it worthwhile to break away from the CFP system is nil or negligible.

this is true, nil or negligible, but if the left outs continue to grow in numbers like we’re seeing with the b-12 left outs it could reach critical mass and eventually have value in shear eyeballs alone that adds up to something worthy of broadcasting

Just depends. Assuming the final eventual replacement for the current CFP offers a legit path to the playoff---who cares? In my opinion, one of the greatest factor retarding the development of G5 conferences is a complete lack of access to the "real" post season (the playoff). If you can get to the playoff from your G5 conference---then life in the G5 isnt really all that horrible. Yeah--those G5 schools and conferences will make less--but thats always been the case. At least they will finally be able to start each season with the real and legitimate hope that they will make the playoff---and that very basic expectation at the start of each season is a key ingredient to attracting better talent and building larger fan bases.

Ok so this is all what i think also, if they stick with the top rated 6 conference champs iam good with that, sure hope there’s no committee
recruiting gets easier too, yes and this allows G schools to grow naturally instead of being held down
let me be clear here anything less than at least 6 top conference champs and all bets are off imo and go to the free and open market

I don't think your expectations for what getting access to a 6-6 CFP means are very realistic. Let's say one of your champions gets that 6th spot (I'm assuming either the Big 12 or AAC is going to get the fifth, and maybe they get both). Say Appalachian State grabs the gold ring. What do they get as their prize?

A trip to someplace like Norman, Oklahoma or Athens, Georgia in mid December, where they will be offered up as the fatted calf led to slaughter on somebody else's home field. And when they lose, their season is over, with no bowl game to go to because those pairings are already set.

Is that worth it, just to say you were "in the playoffs" and earned a few bucks more than if you weren't? Is that really going to help your recruiting all that much? For much of the G5 that's what you decided wasn't worth staying in FCS for, where you actually had a chance of competing in a playoff instead of just appearing in one.

Be careful what you wish for.

(08-24-2021 09:34 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-24-2021 06:42 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(08-24-2021 12:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 11:47 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 02:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Or in terms of the question posed in the OP,
... the chances of that making it worthwhile to break away from the CFP system is nil or negligible.

this is true, nil or negligible, but if the left outs continue to grow in numbers like we’re seeing with the b-12 left outs it could reach critical mass and eventually have value in shear eyeballs alone that adds up to something worthy of broadcasting

Just depends. Assuming the final eventual replacement for the current CFP offers a legit path to the playoff---who cares? In my opinion, one of the greatest factor retarding the development of G5 conferences is a complete lack of access to the "real" post season (the playoff). If you can get to the playoff from your G5 conference---then life in the G5 isnt really all that horrible. Yeah--those G5 schools and conferences will make less--but thats always been the case. At least they will finally be able to start each season with the real and legitimate hope that they will make the playoff---and that very basic expectation at the start of each season is a key ingredient to attracting better talent and building larger fan bases.

Ok so this is all what i think also, if they stick with the top rated 6 conference champs iam good with that, sure hope there’s no committee
recruiting gets easier too, yes and this allows G schools to grow naturally instead of being held down
let me be clear here anything less than at least 6 top conference champs and all bets are off imo and go to the free and open market

I don't think your expectations for what getting access to a 6-6 CFP means are very realistic. Let's say one of your champions gets that 6th spot (I'm assuming either the Big 12 or AAC is going to get the fifth, and maybe they get both). Say Appalachian State grabs the gold ring. What do they get as their prize?

A trip to someplace like Norman, Oklahoma or Athens, Georgia in mid December, where they will be offered up as the fatted calf led to slaughter on somebody else's home field. And when they lose, their season is over, with no bowl game to go to because those pairings are already set.

Is that worth it, just to say you were "in the playoffs" and earned a few bucks more than if you weren't? Is that really going to help your recruiting all that much? For much of the G5 that's what you decided wasn't worth staying in FCS for, where you actually had a chance of competing in a playoff instead of just appearing in one.

Be careful what you wish for.

your thinking is archaic to say the least, you are a prime example of old school thought, your questioning why a school would even want to go to the playoffs is priceless

(08-24-2021 09:34 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-24-2021 06:42 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(08-24-2021 12:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 11:47 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(08-23-2021 02:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Or in terms of the question posed in the OP,
... the chances of that making it worthwhile to break away from the CFP system is nil or negligible.

this is true, nil or negligible, but if the left outs continue to grow in numbers like we’re seeing with the b-12 left outs it could reach critical mass and eventually have value in shear eyeballs alone that adds up to something worthy of broadcasting

Just depends. Assuming the final eventual replacement for the current CFP offers a legit path to the playoff---who cares? In my opinion, one of the greatest factor retarding the development of G5 conferences is a complete lack of access to the "real" post season (the playoff). If you can get to the playoff from your G5 conference---then life in the G5 isnt really all that horrible. Yeah--those G5 schools and conferences will make less--but thats always been the case. At least they will finally be able to start each season with the real and legitimate hope that they will make the playoff---and that very basic expectation at the start of each season is a key ingredient to attracting better talent and building larger fan bases.

Ok so this is all what i think also, if they stick with the top rated 6 conference champs iam good with that, sure hope there’s no committee
recruiting gets easier too, yes and this allows G schools to grow naturally instead of being held down
let me be clear here anything less than at least 6 top conference champs and all bets are off imo and go to the free and open market

I don't think your expectations for what getting access to a 6-6 CFP means are very realistic. Let's say one of your champions gets that 6th spot (I'm assuming either the Big 12 or AAC is going to get the fifth, and maybe they get both). Say Appalachian State grabs the gold ring. What do they get as their prize?

A trip to someplace like Norman, Oklahoma or Athens, Georgia in mid December, where they will be offered up as the fatted calf led to slaughter on somebody else's home field. And when they lose, their season is over, with no bowl game to go to because those pairings are already set.

Is that worth it, just to say you were "in the playoffs" and earned a few bucks more than if you weren't? Is that really going to help your recruiting all that much? For much of the G5 that's what you decided wasn't worth staying in FCS for, where you actually had a chance of competing in a playoff instead of just appearing in one.

Be careful what you wish for.

Im fine with that. A chance is all Ive ever hoped for. Besides, regardless of the odds, eventually David WILL slay Goliath.

Also worth noting, in the current proposed 12 team set up, the first round G5 game wont be vs the #1 seed. Worst case scenario would have the top G5 champ playing against a #5 seed---and #5 hasnt had much better luck vs Bama than #10. No reason to believe the best of the G5 wont be competitive in that kind of game.