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WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
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Claw Offline
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Post: #21
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 12:26 PM)dawgonit Wrote:  If WV does entertain this thought, I wonder if we're seeing a rise of a small group of permanent independent teams. Notre Dame, BYU, WVU, UConn, Liberty, etc.

A little confederation of independents might be in order? A guarantee of three or four other independent opponents during the conference game part of the season could help all of them.
08-19-2021 02:43 PM
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Post: #22
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 02:32 PM)Bogg Wrote:  I wouldn't mind WV coming back, but I just don't see it happening short of the Big 12 really blowing up. The likeliest outcome here is probably something as simple as the Big 12 adds Houston and BYU, AAC backfills with Rice, and everyone generally keeps plugging along (with the Big 12 taking a big income hit, obviously).

I think the Big 12 also needs to add Cincy to try and help anchor in WVU.

If the looming Big 12 erases the financial incentive, WVU may have more incentive to look eastward and try something new.
08-19-2021 02:48 PM
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Post: #23
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
IMO, WVU athletics’ future is safer, and has more upside, in the B12. With the likely expansion by the B12, a priority is to add a team that bridges towards WVU (Cincy and/or Memphis). It’s also going to get more difficult to schedule OOC games against P4 teams…the SEC and the Alliance are likely to expand their schedules in order to drive-up media rights.

It’s only if the other B12 schools limit expansion to western schools (e.g., BYU, Colorado State, Boise State, Houston and/or SMU), that WVU should be looking for alternatives. In this unlikely scenario, WVU would still be better off re-inventing the BE football conference…WVU, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, UCF, USF + other eastern football schools.

Independent football would be tough.
08-19-2021 02:48 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
None of the remaining eight are going to leave the Big 12 for at least 5 years, probably 6 or 7 years. This is because the exit fees and withheld distributions of Texas and Oklahoma, as well as the mountain of basketball credits earned are going to be distributed among the remaining eight schools over the course of probably 5 years. The TV contract will likely be 30-50% better per school than the AAC and will likely run either 6 years to 2031 or more likely 8 years to 2033.

Nobody will want to leave before 2030 because it means surrendering two years of those exit fee and tournament credit enhanced distributions. Consider UConn as example, a school that drew upon the Big East exit fee pile until it was dry, then jumped to the Big East. They stayed for 7 years. Even if a Big East option is available, and a TV deal can be made on equal footing or close for Football (which I very much doubt -- BYU's contract is about the best they can hope for), West Virginia is not going to walk away from the extra Big 12 money that Texas and Oklahoma left behind.

This is going to be a bridge era, where the reaming Big 12 schools are drawing down the extra money to stay competitive with the other four power conferences is the name of the game. It's buying time to the next round of realignment
08-19-2021 03:15 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #25
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 03:15 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Even if a Big East option is available, and a TV deal can be made on equal footing or close for Football (which I very much doubt -- BYU's contract is about the best they can hope for),

I agree it won't happen for all the other reasons you detailed, but if they got something like BYU's TV deal, that coupled with a full share of the Big East's next TV contract might not be that far off of the Big 12's next TV contract.
08-19-2021 03:27 PM
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Post: #26
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
I find it amusing that the New Big East has little respect for the old Big East that kept eyes on the conference almost year round with great revenue to boot.
WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, Miami, VT, Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers,USF, BC, Pitt, Temple had great Years in the conference in most sports, Football had many good years and Many Great years in BB. Baseball also was very good in schools that had it. Outside of the first 2 years of the New Big East you don't hear much from them except in their own market and only during BB season. The Football revenue They lost is not replaceable. But it is just a one pony show. Even the Big 12 has and still has great Basketball as does the ACC, B1G, PAC 12,AAC
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2021 03:33 PM by CardFan1.)
08-19-2021 03:28 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #27
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 03:28 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I find it amusing that the New Big East has little respect for the old Big East that kept eyes on the conference almost year round with great revenue to boot.
WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, Miami, VT, Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers,USF, BC, Pitt had great Years in the conference in most sports, Football had many good years and Many Great years in BB. Baseball also was very good in schools that had it. Outside of the first 2 years of the New Big East you don't hear much from them except in their own market and only during BB season. The Football revenue They lost is not replaceable. But it is just a one pony show. Even the Big 12 has and still has great Basketball as does the ACC, B1G, PAC 12,AAC

I mean, you've correctly deduced that the conference no longer sponsors football, but the current Big East schools have won more national championships in basketball since the split than Louisville has in their entire history.
08-19-2021 03:35 PM
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Post: #28
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 03:28 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I find it amusing that the New Big East has little respect for the old Big East that kept eyes on the conference almost year round with great revenue to boot.
WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, Miami, VT, Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers,USF, BC, Pitt had great Years in the conference in most sports, Football had many good years and Many Great years in BB. Baseball also was very good in schools that had it. Outside of the first 2 years of the New Big East you don't hear much from them except in their own market and only during BB season. The Football revenue They lost is not replaceable. But it is just a one pony show. Even the Big 12 has and still has great Basketball as does the ACC, B1G, PAC 12,AAC

FWIW, even though I am a Georgetown fan, I'm not like that. Even though I love the "new" Big East, if I had my druthers, I'd rather have the Big East of 10 years ago over the Big East of today, even if it didn't have my USF. I'd want that for Syracuse alone, the Big East will always be missing a piece of its heart without them. Sure, it's great not being hassled about football these days, but the schools we lost are just too high a price for that purity, IMO.

Now, I'd rather have the Big East of 1986 over the Big East of 2010. That was when the conference was perfect, before football entered the picture, and when the conference had a unity and culture that was unlike any other, save for arguably the ACC of the same time period.

But 2010, with Syracuse - and Louisville, WV and Pitt? Sure, I take that over today in a minute, again, even with USF not involved.

07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2021 03:41 PM by quo vadis.)
08-19-2021 03:36 PM
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CardFan1 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 03:35 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(08-19-2021 03:28 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I find it amusing that the New Big East has little respect for the old Big East that kept eyes on the conference almost year round with great revenue to boot.
WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, Miami, VT, Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers,USF, BC, Pitt had great Years in the conference in most sports, Football had many good years and Many Great years in BB. Baseball also was very good in schools that had it. Outside of the first 2 years of the New Big East you don't hear much from them except in their own market and only during BB season. The Football revenue They lost is not replaceable. But it is just a one pony show. Even the Big 12 has and still has great Basketball as does the ACC, B1G, PAC 12,AAC

I mean, you've correctly deduced that the conference no longer sponsors football, but the current Big East schools have won more national championships in basketball since the split than Louisville has in their entire history.

Yeah and UCLA had more than anyone. But You can't deny that those BE Basketball matchups were the stuff legends were made of back when the Football schools were in the BE tournament and seeded a lot of NCAA spots every year.
08-19-2021 03:42 PM
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Post: #30
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 03:36 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(08-19-2021 03:28 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I find it amusing that the New Big East has little respect for the old Big East that kept eyes on the conference almost year round with great revenue to boot.
WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, Miami, VT, Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers,USF, BC, Pitt had great Years in the conference in most sports, Football had many good years and Many Great years in BB. Baseball also was very good in schools that had it. Outside of the first 2 years of the New Big East you don't hear much from them except in their own market and only during BB season. The Football revenue They lost is not replaceable. But it is just a one pony show. Even the Big 12 has and still has great Basketball as does the ACC, B1G, PAC 12,AAC

FWIW, even though I am a Georgetown fan, I'm not like that. Even though I love the "new" Big East, if I had my druthers, I'd rather have the Big East of 10 years ago over the Big East of today, even if it didn't have my USF. I'd want that for Syracuse alone, the Big East will always be missing a piece of its heart without them. Sure, it's great not being hassled about football these days, but the schools we lost are just too high a price for that purity, IMO.

Now, I'd rather have the Big East of 1986 over the Big East of 2010. That was when the conference was perfect, before football entered the picture, and when the conference had a unity and culture that was unlike any other, save for arguably the ACC of the same time period.

But 2010, with Syracuse - and Louisville, WV and Pitt? Sure, I take that over today in a minute, again, even with USF not involved.

07-coffee3

I loved Our time in the BE as did most of the Cardinal fans I know. Too bad the NBE and AAC can't merge as it would not hurt Basketball ratings but would help with more TV and streaming exposure
08-19-2021 03:46 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #31
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 03:42 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  But You can't deny that those BE Basketball matchups were the stuff legends were made of back when the Football schools were in the BE tournament and seeded a lot of NCAA spots every year.

Oh, sure, it was a lot of fun. I don't think anyone denies that. It's just that that Big East 3.0 run was 8 seasons out of a 40-odd-year conference history. The games are still on national TV and MSG's still sold out, so there's no reason to act like the fun's over either.
08-19-2021 03:51 PM
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Post: #32
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 01:13 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  WVU has the clout to start its own mid major conference.

1) Any basketball conference with them would be a 2 bid conference.
2) Any FB conference with them could get a spot for its champ in a mid tier bowl.

Immediately it would be on par with the AAC and could be more regional to save on travel.

Actually not a horrible idea. The biggest barrier to creating a new conference is Tourney credits (we’ll know by ‘25 how this NCAA convention plays out) and this conference could get at large spots out of the gate.

It could be a backdoor way for the AAC membership to boot Tulsa and Tulane/ECU in exchange for WVU. Any other “new G5” conference, however would have a much smaller (10x?) media deal and WVU will probably be better in the XII.
08-19-2021 03:59 PM
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Post: #33
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 01:13 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  WVU has the clout to start its own mid major conference.

1) Any basketball conference with them would be a 2 bid conference.
2) Any FB conference with them could get a spot for its champ in a mid tier bowl.

Immediately it would be on par with the AAC and could be more regional to save on travel.

Yeah, but why would they start a mid-major basketball conference?

The Big 12 will be one of the best all-sports conferences. They might even be *the* best basketball conference if they add Cincinnati and Houston.

Football independence *might* be better. Or it might not. But it's a nonstarter if they're forced to downgrade to an A-10 level basketball conference.
08-19-2021 04:06 PM
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Post: #34
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 04:06 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Yeah, but why would they start a mid-major basketball conference?

The Big 12 will be one of the best all-sports conferences. They might even be *the* best basketball conference if they add Cincinnati and Houston.

Football independence *might* be better. Or it might not. But it's a nonstarter if they're forced to downgrade to an A-10 level basketball conference.

Yea, Big 12 basketball's going to continue to be very good, barring something like the PAC going to 16 with B12 schools. Unless it totally and completely blows up WVU won't be leaving for indy status. Even in a theoretical scenario though there's no reason for WVU to look at anything less than the Big East on the basketball side.
08-19-2021 04:20 PM
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RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 01:09 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(08-19-2021 01:01 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I tremendously respect West Virginia. But I simply don't think it's a good idea for the Big East to be adding athletic programs with DI football programs. UConn was an exception (for many and obvious reasons). All this talk of the BE adding, for example, Syracuse, Kansas, WVU, etc. ... It would be like returning to the "scene of the crime" with a BE sponsoring football.

It's not happening. WVU was part of the Big East for just 17 of the conference's 42 years, and has no particular loyalty to it. Put another way, if the SEC called them in 2028, they'd be out the door faster than you could say John Marinatto.

To get in the SEC, West Virginia would have to have the luck of South Carolina back in 1992, when the SEC expanded with Arkansas and South Carolina. The two teams the SEC really wanted back then, Texas and Texas A&M, said nothing doing. The SEC then approached Clemson and Florida State, but they turned it down as well. However, Clemson did recommend approaching South Carolina for membership, which of course, South Carolina accepted.

Now that the SEC will soon grow to be 16 teams (blechh, I hate pod scheduling!!!), it's at least doubtful that the SEC would go past that, regardless if the Mouse is in control or not (i.e the SEC could dump E$PN as a tv partner, and I would celebrate!!). And it is possible that the SEC could indeed go past that, but Clemson, Florida State, and Virginia Tech, not to mention UNC possibly, would be ahead of WVU in the pecking order.

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(This post was last modified: 08-19-2021 05:04 PM by DawgNBama.)
08-19-2021 04:56 PM
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Post: #36
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
Some of the post here don’t seem to comprehend the history of the Big East.


First let me say as a Xavier fan my biased opinion is the Big East 3.0 (or is v3.1 with the addition of UConn) is the best. I also acknowledge that only three fan bases will agree with my statement (Butler, Creighton, and Xavier). My unbias opinion is the 9 team confernce of the Eighties was the best, but I accept people who feel the 16 team confernce was the best.

But regardless of you opinion of which verizon was the best, you have to admit the Hybrid Model is unstable. As such I don’t many former Big East teams would be invited again. UConn was special because of they are basketball royalty, and had a shared history with the east coast wing of the confernce. ( Not to mention that their media partner wanted it to happen). For most of the former teams this is not the case. I feel there are only two former teams that would be welcome back with out question.

Syracuse - No team leaving the Big East hurts more than Syracuse. The “New Big East” will never feel 100% right without Syracuse.

Notre Dame - Sure they are a football first school. But they will have to be dragged kicking a screaming into a football conference. No primarily catholic league would ever not want Notre adams

That’s it for the guaranteed teams. My gut tells me that Boston College would get a serious look as well. If the ACC exploded and they were available it would make sense to add them, but what do I know maybe I think this is a good idea because I go to a Jesuit Chuch. While it seems obvious to me, my understanding from the east coast teams fan basis is that no one misses Boston College. There look upon like Fredo, and no one wants a Fredo.

Pittsburgh - this might make sense but again I don’t think anyone really misses Pitt

As for the other former teams, here’s where I put them.

Schools added to sure up football, that the basketball schools were happy with. Maybe in a wild situation these guys could get an invite.

Cincinnati
Louisville

Former Football adds with no chance, because the league never really wanted their basketball:

Miami (FL)
South Florida - Hell they were really just a football recruiting ad
Rutgers
Temple
West Virginia
Virginia Tech


What will never happen again is the confernce sponsoring football. The basketball schools won’t ever get back into bed with a football sponsoring confernce.
08-19-2021 06:52 PM
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RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 06:52 PM)pki1998 Wrote:  Some of the post here don’t seem to comprehend the history of the Big East.


First let me say as a Xavier fan my biased opinion is the Big East 3.0 (or is v3.1 with the addition of UConn) is the best. I also acknowledge that only three fan bases will agree with my statement (Butler, Creighton, and Xavier). My unbias opinion is the 9 team confernce of the Eighties was the best, but I accept people who feel the 16 team confernce was the best.

But regardless of you opinion of which verizon was the best, you have to admit the Hybrid Model is unstable. As such I don’t many former Big East teams would be invited again. UConn was special because of they are basketball royalty, and had a shared history with the east coast wing of the confernce. ( Not to mention that their media partner wanted it to happen). For most of the former teams this is not the case. I feel there are only two former teams that would be welcome back with out question.

Syracuse - No team leaving the Big East hurts more than Syracuse. The “New Big East” will never feel 100% right without Syracuse.

Notre Dame - Sure they are a football first school. But they will have to be dragged kicking a screaming into a football conference. No primarily catholic league would ever not want Notre adams

That’s it for the guaranteed teams. My gut tells me that Boston College would get a serious look as well. If the ACC exploded and they were available it would make sense to add them, but what do I know maybe I think this is a good idea because I go to a Jesuit Chuch. While it seems obvious to me, my understanding from the east coast teams fan basis is that no one misses Boston College. There look upon like Fredo, and no one wants a Fredo.

Pittsburgh - this might make sense but again I don’t think anyone really misses Pitt

As for the other former teams, here’s where I put them.

Schools added to sure up football, that the basketball schools were happy with. Maybe in a wild situation these guys could get an invite.

Cincinnati
Louisville

Former Football adds with no chance, because the league never really wanted their basketball:

Miami (FL)
South Florida - Hell they were really just a football recruiting ad
Rutgers
Temple
West Virginia
Virginia Tech


What will never happen again is the confernce sponsoring football. The basketball schools won’t ever get back into bed with a football sponsoring confernce.


I agree with a good bit of this.
08-19-2021 08:47 PM
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Post: #38
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
(08-19-2021 12:47 PM)goofus Wrote:  TV viewership by team for B12 and top AAC schools

Oklahoma State (1.64M)
TCU (1.495M)
West Virginia (1.27M)
Baylor (1.12M)
Texas Tech (921K)
Iowa State (747K)
BYU (714K)
Houston (689K)
Kansas State
UCF (566K)
Memphis (564K)
Cincinnati (430K)
USF (407K)
Kansas (346K)
SMU (232K)

I think its in the best interest of WV, short of getting a ACC invite, to stay in the Big 12 with the B12 inviting Cincy, Memphis, Hou, UCF, USF and BYU

Just curious - where do these numbers come from? Is this an average number of viewers per televised game for a specific season? For Big 12 members, I assume these numbers include games against Texas and Oklahoma?
08-19-2021 09:07 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
i dont think either wvu or the BE is/would be interested in the other
08-19-2021 09:31 PM
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Post: #40
RE: WVU after 2025: Football independence and return to Big East for olympic sports
There are a lot of great memories of West Virginia in the Big East. Between Huggy Bear and the Rich Rodriguez era, there was no shortage of high-level play and national recognition. Having said all that, the present Big East is a poor fit for WVU, just as WVU is a poor fit for the Big East.

Firstly, WVU is not UConn - and that is not intended as a slight at all. WVU, unlike UConn, is a football-first athletic department that happens to have a top-25 basketball program. Unlike UConn, they can compete in the Big 8, and any new configuration the league will survive and see. Football at WVU will ensure it will survive moving forward in realignment, just like it did in 2012. Football at UConn would have done no such thing, which is why they returned to the Big East.

Secondly, the sentimental connection between UConn and the Big East was, and remains, deep. That same association simply does not exist between WVU and the Big East. Ever since UConn was left by the C7, there was a strong push by fans, alums and commentators to return home. There has been no such push by anyone within WVU, nor has there been by the Big East.

The Big 12, or Big 8, has not prevented WVU from competing in football or basketball. They are sustainable under multiple brands and conferences, unlike UConn. For all of these reasons, WVU will continue to survive and thrive outside the Big East. There is little reason for either to rekindle their one-time romance.
08-19-2021 09:48 PM
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