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Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
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Claw Offline
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Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
Is it possible for the ACC to simply dissolve their grant of rights agreement? I would think they could vote to do so. Is it a majority vote? Unanimous?

Assuming they could, is there a way ESPN could package together something that would entice them to do so? Could ESPN throw enough money at them to get Clemson and Florida State free? Could they throw anything else?

The GOR seems solid unless it is dissolved. Could it be? And how?
08-17-2021 09:26 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
(08-17-2021 09:26 AM)Claw Wrote:  Is it possible for the ACC to simply dissolve their grant of rights agreement? I would think they could vote to do so. Is it a majority vote? Unanimous?

Assuming they could, is there a way ESPN could package together something that would entice them to do so? Could ESPN throw enough money at them to get Clemson and Florida State free? Could they throw anything else?

The GOR seems solid unless it is dissolved. Could it be? And how?

As with any agreement, the only way to amend or terminate a GOR is for unanimous approval by all parties. There is no "vote" to void a contract - if a single party holds out, the agreement continues.

Even if the GOR were terminated, why on Earth would Wake Forest and others ever agree to anything that would allow Florida State and Clemson to leave more easily? There is NEVER enough money that ESPN could throw at them. Just look at the Big 12 - it doesn't matter how much temporary money they receive if it means a permanent relegation to non-power status. A few million dollars now is honestly meaningless if it means that your institution is a non-power school in 5 years.

As I've said on other threads, the GOR agreement is honestly a VERY simple legal document. It has also been used in many other venues for many years (particularly in the entertainment industry), so this isn't some type of untested contract mechanism (which some fans seem to mistakenly believe).

We should have a new rule in conference realignment: any move that requires terminating a GOR agreement isn't happening. (Note that UT and OU aren't breaking the GOR - every legal step that they've taken, such as announcing that they're not leaving until 2025, is an acknowledgment of the continued enforcement of that GOR agreement until its contract termination date.)
08-17-2021 09:35 AM
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Claw Offline
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RE: Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
(08-17-2021 09:35 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(08-17-2021 09:26 AM)Claw Wrote:  Is it possible for the ACC to simply dissolve their grant of rights agreement? I would think they could vote to do so. Is it a majority vote? Unanimous?

Assuming they could, is there a way ESPN could package together something that would entice them to do so? Could ESPN throw enough money at them to get Clemson and Florida State free? Could they throw anything else?

The GOR seems solid unless it is dissolved. Could it be? And how?

As with any agreement, the only way to amend or terminate a GOR is for unanimous approval by all parties. There is no "vote" to void a contract - if a single party holds out, the agreement continues.

Even if the GOR were terminated, why on Earth would Wake Forest and others ever agree to anything that would allow Florida State and Clemson to leave more easily? There is NEVER enough money that ESPN could throw at them. Just look at the Big 12 - it doesn't matter how much temporary money they receive if it means a permanent relegation to non-power status. A few million dollars now is honestly meaningless if it means that your institution is a non-power school in 5 years.

As I've said on other threads, the GOR agreement is honestly a VERY simple legal document. It has also been used in many other venues for many years (particularly in the entertainment industry), so this isn't some type of untested contract mechanism (which some fans seem to mistakenly believe).

We should have a new rule in conference realignment: any move that requires terminating a GOR agreement isn't happening. (Note that UT and OU aren't breaking the GOR - every legal step that they've taken, such as announcing that they're not leaving until 2025, is an acknowledgment of the continued enforcement of that GOR agreement until its contract termination date.)

You answered the dissolution part of my question.

At some point the impending end of the GOR changes the game. We may not see it with Texas/OK, but the opening is always there for ESPN or anyone to manipulate the post-GOR offers to get what they want quicker.
08-17-2021 09:41 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
(08-17-2021 09:41 AM)Claw Wrote:  You answered the dissolution part of my question.

At some point the impending end of the GOR changes the game. We may not see it with Texas/OK, but the opening is always there for ESPN or anyone to manipulate the post-GOR offers to get what they want quicker.

It does depend critically on the difference in the conference revenues ... a credible threat to leave early even without the home game rights in return for a partial conference distribution turns it into a negotiation on how big a share of the difference between a partial distribution and a full distribution in the raiding conference has to be paid to the raided conference to get them to agree to release the rights early.

But that threat is not going to be credible for too many years before the end of the grant of rights.
08-17-2021 09:49 AM
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LeeNobody Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
Unanimous consent can only be achieved if everyone is ensured a better deal. That isnt likely maybe:

B1G + UNC, UVA, GT, CLEM, Pitt, and FSU(altantic division swap md and pitt)
SEC + NCST, VT
B12(8) + Wake, Duke, BC, Syra, Louisville, Miami

B12 move is the hardest ask. Why would ESPN want to pay more than the ACC sweetheart deal.
08-17-2021 10:01 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
(08-17-2021 09:41 AM)Claw Wrote:  
(08-17-2021 09:35 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(08-17-2021 09:26 AM)Claw Wrote:  Is it possible for the ACC to simply dissolve their grant of rights agreement? I would think they could vote to do so. Is it a majority vote? Unanimous?

Assuming they could, is there a way ESPN could package together something that would entice them to do so? Could ESPN throw enough money at them to get Clemson and Florida State free? Could they throw anything else?

The GOR seems solid unless it is dissolved. Could it be? And how?

As with any agreement, the only way to amend or terminate a GOR is for unanimous approval by all parties. There is no "vote" to void a contract - if a single party holds out, the agreement continues.

Even if the GOR were terminated, why on Earth would Wake Forest and others ever agree to anything that would allow Florida State and Clemson to leave more easily? There is NEVER enough money that ESPN could throw at them. Just look at the Big 12 - it doesn't matter how much temporary money they receive if it means a permanent relegation to non-power status. A few million dollars now is honestly meaningless if it means that your institution is a non-power school in 5 years.

As I've said on other threads, the GOR agreement is honestly a VERY simple legal document. It has also been used in many other venues for many years (particularly in the entertainment industry), so this isn't some type of untested contract mechanism (which some fans seem to mistakenly believe).

We should have a new rule in conference realignment: any move that requires terminating a GOR agreement isn't happening. (Note that UT and OU aren't breaking the GOR - every legal step that they've taken, such as announcing that they're not leaving until 2025, is an acknowledgment of the continued enforcement of that GOR agreement until its contract termination date.)

You answered the dissolution part of my question.

At some point the impending end of the GOR changes the game. We may not see it with Texas/OK, but the opening is always there for ESPN or anyone to manipulate the post-GOR offers to get what they want quicker.

Sure - it's practically easier for a school to move near the end of a GOR agreement than it is when there's a decade-plus left (as is the case with the ACC).

However, there's just a practical consideration that I think a lot of people are missing when you take a 1000-foot view: adding Texas IS the end game for power conference realignment. That was true back in 2010 when most of us here started paying attention to conference realignment and that's the case now. There is no single addition to any conference - not Florida State, not Clemson, not even Notre Dame - that is more valuable than adding Texas.

The fact that the SEC got to add them AND another elite brand in Oklahoma in one swift move (without even having to take in schools like Texas Tech and Oklahoma State, as the Pac-16 proposal contemplated) is simply checkmate. Plus, Texas is actually getting *back* two of its biggest historical rivals of Texas A&M and Arkansas. The SEC expansion is obviously a huge money move, but people are forgetting how much sense this makes for the SEC/UT/OU even *without* the money, which is exactly what you want for a 20/50/100-year expansion move.

There's simply no answer to it by the other P5 conferences. Any other conceivable move of power brands (e.g. Ohio State, USC, etc.) would require complete shotgun marriages. The SEC will be at the point where even adding FSU and Clemson would *lose* them money. FSU and Clemson simply aren't cultural fits for the Big Ten and, even if you put that aside, it would take a de facto merger between the Big Ten and ACC to add enough schools to make it into something other than a shotgun marriage. (It would be the same with the thought of USC going to the Big Ten - they basically need the entire rest of the Pac-12 to come with them because they'd be giving up so much.)

The only other real earthquake that could occur is if Notre Dame announced that it was dropping independence. That's about it. Otherwise, I truly think that we're done with expansion at the power conference level - all of the valuable semi-realistic conference realignment moves for the P5 pretty much involved Texas and/or Oklahoma... and the SEC just took them both without having to add *any* filler.

Now, the Big 12 will ultimately need to backfill, which means that the AAC is very likely losing at least Cincinnati (and likely more than that), so the entire G5 will probably get upended. This looks more like the conference realignment round of 2003 (when the ACC added Miami/VT/BC) where the real changes were at the lower levels of the conferences as opposed to the other top power conferences. That's in stark contrast to the conference realignment round of 2010-2013 where everyone seemed to be moving everywhere.
08-17-2021 10:05 AM
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Claw Offline
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RE: Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
So the pendulum will swing.

The driver of change will move from conference alignments to broadcasting alignments.

Nothing ever stays the same.
08-17-2021 10:35 AM
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Post: #8
RE: Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
(08-17-2021 09:26 AM)Claw Wrote:  Is it possible for the ACC to simply dissolve their grant of rights agreement? I would think they could vote to do so. Is it a majority vote? Unanimous?

Assuming they could, is there a way ESPN could package together something that would entice them to do so? Could ESPN throw enough money at them to get Clemson and Florida State free? Could they throw anything else?

Why would ESPN want that?

They already have Clemson and Florida State. They'd have to pay more money to them as SEC members.

So why would ESPN spend hundreds of millions, maybe billions, to pay more money
08-17-2021 10:44 AM
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CarlSmithCenter Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
(08-17-2021 10:44 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(08-17-2021 09:26 AM)Claw Wrote:  Is it possible for the ACC to simply dissolve their grant of rights agreement? I would think they could vote to do so. Is it a majority vote? Unanimous?

Assuming they could, is there a way ESPN could package together something that would entice them to do so? Could ESPN throw enough money at them to get Clemson and Florida State free? Could they throw anything else?

Why would ESPN want that?

They already have Clemson and Florida State. They'd have to pay more money to them as SEC members.

So why would ESPN spend hundreds of millions, maybe billions, to pay more money

They could pay a fraction of that to keep FSU and Clemson happy in the ACC by upping the payouts in exchange for either a 9th conference game or this "Alliance," or both. Facilitating FSU and Clemson to the SEC not only means ESPN would be playing itself by having to pay more for something it already controls through '36, but would leave the ACC (meaning UNC, Duke, UVA and GT) open to predation by the B1G, whose media rights ESPN doesn't have outright control over and which would be able to demand significantly more money when they come back on the market in '23. So ESPN would (1) pay more for something it controls; (2) push valuable properties out of the ACC into a Fox-controlled network that could demand astronomical fees that ESPN couldn't match in two years; and (3) render the rest of the ACC, which ESPN would still be on the hook for another 15 years, significantly weakened? Not seeing it.
08-17-2021 11:00 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
While this doesn't mean that Clemson and FSU can't go to the SEC, it does mean that either ESPN would have to continue to pay the ACC as if they were still there for the duration of the GoR or negotiate some buyout acceptable to all the remaining ACC schools. As we get nearer to the end of that GoR, does that become likely?
08-17-2021 11:14 AM
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Claw Offline
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RE: Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
(08-17-2021 11:14 AM)ken d Wrote:  While this doesn't mean that Clemson and FSU can't go to the SEC, it does mean that either ESPN would have to continue to pay the ACC as if they were still there for the duration of the GoR or negotiate some buyout acceptable to all the remaining ACC schools. As we get nearer to the end of that GoR, does that become likely?

The closer you get to then end of the Gor, the more likely it gets.

2036 is so far away now I believe it is impossible to predict what the broadcasting world will look like then.
08-17-2021 11:35 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
(08-17-2021 11:35 AM)Claw Wrote:  
(08-17-2021 11:14 AM)ken d Wrote:  While this doesn't mean that Clemson and FSU can't go to the SEC, it does mean that either ESPN would have to continue to pay the ACC as if they were still there for the duration of the GoR or negotiate some buyout acceptable to all the remaining ACC schools. As we get nearer to the end of that GoR, does that become likely?

The closer you get to then end of the Gor, the more likely it gets.

2036 is so far away now I believe it is impossible to predict what the broadcasting world will look like then.

Or the college football world, for that matter. There could be legislative changes or SCOTUS rulings that negate existing contracts.
08-17-2021 11:58 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
(08-17-2021 09:35 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(08-17-2021 09:26 AM)Claw Wrote:  Is it possible for the ACC to simply dissolve their grant of rights agreement? I would think they could vote to do so. Is it a majority vote? Unanimous?

Assuming they could, is there a way ESPN could package together something that would entice them to do so? Could ESPN throw enough money at them to get Clemson and Florida State free? Could they throw anything else?

The GOR seems solid unless it is dissolved. Could it be? And how?

As with any agreement, the only way to amend or terminate a GOR is for unanimous approval by all parties. There is no "vote" to void a contract - if a single party holds out, the agreement continues.

Even if the GOR were terminated, why on Earth would Wake Forest and others ever agree to anything that would allow Florida State and Clemson to leave more easily? There is NEVER enough money that ESPN could throw at them. Just look at the Big 12 - it doesn't matter how much temporary money they receive if it means a permanent relegation to non-power status. A few million dollars now is honestly meaningless if it means that your institution is a non-power school in 5 years.

As I've said on other threads, the GOR agreement is honestly a VERY simple legal document. It has also been used in many other venues for many years (particularly in the entertainment industry), so this isn't some type of untested contract mechanism (which some fans seem to mistakenly believe).

We should have a new rule in conference realignment: any move that requires terminating a GOR agreement isn't happening. (Note that UT and OU aren't breaking the GOR - every legal step that they've taken, such as announcing that they're not leaving until 2025, is an acknowledgment of the continued enforcement of that GOR agreement until its contract termination date.)

Exactly right. They'll never vote to dissolve their GOR. Wake Forest would be Tulsa if the ACC disappeared.
08-17-2021 12:07 PM
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Claw Offline
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RE: Can the ACC vote to nullify their GOR? Can ESPN offer enough money?
(08-17-2021 11:58 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-17-2021 11:35 AM)Claw Wrote:  
(08-17-2021 11:14 AM)ken d Wrote:  While this doesn't mean that Clemson and FSU can't go to the SEC, it does mean that either ESPN would have to continue to pay the ACC as if they were still there for the duration of the GoR or negotiate some buyout acceptable to all the remaining ACC schools. As we get nearer to the end of that GoR, does that become likely?

The closer you get to then end of the Gor, the more likely it gets.

2036 is so far away now I believe it is impossible to predict what the broadcasting world will look like then.

Or the college football world, for that matter. There could be legislative changes or SCOTUS rulings that negate existing contracts.

Good point.
08-17-2021 12:44 PM
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