good luck holding on to that

(08-13-2021 08:30 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  Seeing these three conferences “ the alliance “ working together at this level, what else are they willing to do ?, mybe they stick it to the sec by breaking away from the sec and leaving the sec on an island , are we seeing espn money taking a back seat untill this alliance dose what it wants to do? ...

No? The PAC-12 and Big Ten both want the ESPN to be in the running for a piece of their media contracts, so while it makes sense for them to be forming a coalition to be looking after their interests, it's not going to be a "Rebel Alliance".

It seems likely that many of the "social media hits" type of headlines are going to be rumors of things they are doing which they are never actually going to be doing ... while what they end up doing likely to be more boring, nuts and bolts looking out for their interests during the coming deregulation NCAA Constitutional Convention. They might do some "low bore" things to help stabilize things for the balance of the decade, like agree that their "P5" scheduling requirements will continue to be "P"5, with the Big12 counted despite their coming drop down into "tweener" status.

But the big Conference Realignment working coalition to take down the SEC before the SEC takes us down is going to remain fodder for conference board hysteria rather than an agenda for the coalition.

And of course, the Coalition is not going to be a marriage ... if it survives the whole 20s, then when the ACC is in its own "countdown to the end of the GOR" period, the period of constructive cooperation between the three is almost certain to come to an end.

(08-13-2021 08:24 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 08:06 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 07:49 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I'm more curious to see if this leads to possible closed door discussion about dissecting the BigXII. The idea seems fantastical and probably not close to reality but it's fun to imagine.

I'd like to see something good happen to at least some of the remaining 8, but I'm not optimistic.

The B1G is driving this alliance. There are academic snobs in both the Pac and the ACC that the B1G consider to be peers. This alliance is: 1) opposition to the SEC and 2) a signal that they're not interested in expanding with B12 schools.

Yeah I definitely won't say you're wrong but I have a sneaky suspicion that the PAC will add some of the BigXII leftovers. What is probably fantasy land is all 8 being rescued. I have said in numerous threads, I truly believe Kansas, Okie St., and Texas Tech will find homes, for the rest it's going to be tough.

These conferences, especially the B1G and Pac, are elitist clubs. They're looking for schools that have high academic reputations, bring in large amounts of research dollars, and generate football TV ratings that translate into media contract value. Nothing against the remaining 8 on my part, but these aren't schools the B1G and Pac desire to be associated with. The only ones that come close, Kansas and Iowa State, are both AAU. They would at least get a hearing from them. But, Kansas has a terrible football program with little media value, and Iowa State is located in the wrong place (small state, existing B1G school).

The Pac needs games in the Central and Eastern time zones. If this alliance works the way it is intended, they'll get those games without having to add B12 schools to their conference.

Also, with this alliance, the B1G gets a more formal relationship with ACC schools they like (UNC and UVa).

I wouldn't want to be one of the remaining 8 B12 schools tonight.

(08-13-2021 10:24 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  good luck holding on to that

No luck needed. The law is the law. And antitrust law isn't the only thing going against opponents of pay for play. In two weeks the NLRB will be primed to assert jurisdiction when scholarship players at private schools come knocking. (See the 2nd video here.)

(08-13-2021 08:24 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 08:06 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 07:49 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I'm more curious to see if this leads to possible closed door discussion about dissecting the BigXII. The idea seems fantastical and probably not close to reality but it's fun to imagine.

I'd like to see something good happen to at least some of the remaining 8, but I'm not optimistic.

The B1G is driving this alliance. There are academic snobs in both the Pac and the ACC that the B1G consider to be peers. This alliance is: 1) opposition to the SEC and 2) a signal that they're not interested in expanding with B12 schools.

Yeah I definitely won't say you're wrong but I have a sneaky suspicion that the PAC will add some of the BigXII leftovers. What is probably fantasy land is all 8 being rescued. I have said in numerous threads, I truly believe Kansas, Okie St., and Texas Tech will find homes, for the rest it's going to be tough.

If it dont make dollars, it dont make sense!

They arent going to rescue some schools for the sake of being good neighbors.

(08-13-2021 08:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 08:17 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  yeah the b12 not being included in this alliance i think means their being thrown to the wolves

sounds like it.

Although it could be an academic thing. 13/14 Big 10, 9/12 Pac 12 and 5/15 ACC are AAU. And WF and Miami are probably among those next in line for AAU admission and Notre Dame is AAU level undergraduate.

Remaining Big 12 is 2/8 AAU.

The AAC is changing its name to the American Athletic Union. That way all of their schools will be AAU just like the BigNot10. Take that you pretentious AAU snobs! For such a smart conference…14 doesn’t =10

(08-13-2021 11:40 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  The AAC is changing its name to the American Athletic Union. That way all of their schools will be AAU just like the BigNot10. Take that you pretentious AAU snobs! For such a smart conference…14 doesn’t =10

While they may never concede that it is the B10+L4, quite clearly from the name they are conceding it is the Big 10 and Medium 4.

Perhaps it is a reference to stadium size ... you could then do a sorted list of Big10 schools by stadium size and work out which ones are the Medium Four.

Beyond having a critical mass of votes on governance issues, I think there are a few areas where it makes sense for the leagues to help each other:

(1) The Big Ten and Pac-12 want support in keeping the importance of the Rose Bowl in any new playoff system (as discussed a lot today in a separate thread). The ACC can help a lot there (and note ACC Commissioner Jim Phillips was hired from Northwestern, where he was AD and had actually served in the Rose Bowl Management Committee and went to Illinois for undergrad, so he knows the Big Ten and Rose Bowl intimately well).

(2) The ACC has the weakest and lowest paying contract bowl tie-in with the Orange Bowl, so they don’t have the same type of leverage in the CFP discussions as the B1G/Pac-12/Rose Bowl alliance. The Big Ten and Pac-12 might be able to have a “scratch our back on the Rose and we’ll scratch your back on a better protection in the new CFP” arrangement.

(3) The ACC and Pac-12 both have weak TV contract deals compared to the Big Ten and SEC, so any type of scheduling alliance with the Big Ten would help out those leagues.

(4) The ACC can be a bridge between Notre Dame and the Big Ten and Pac-12 regarding scheduling more games and incorporating bowl deals.

(5) The Big Ten doesn’t really need the ACC or Pac-12 for football or basketball issues at the end of the day, but they could aid the B1G in the spring outdoor sports like baseball or softball where weather issues simply have a bad impact on Northern teams.

Those are just some items off the top of my head.

(08-13-2021 10:30 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 08:30 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  Seeing these three conferences “ the alliance “ working together at this level, what else are they willing to do ?, mybe they stick it to the sec by breaking away from the sec and leaving the sec on an island , are we seeing espn money taking a back seat untill this alliance dose what it wants to do? ...

No? The PAC-12 and Big Ten both want the ESPN to be in the running for a piece of their media contracts, so while it makes sense for them to be forming a coalition to be looking after their interests, it's not going to be a "Rebel Alliance".

It seems likely that many of the "social media hits" type of headlines are going to be rumors of things they are doing which they are never actually going to be doing ... while what they end up doing likely to be more boring, nuts and bolts looking out for their interests during the coming deregulation NCAA Constitutional Convention. They might do some "low bore" things to help stabilize things for the balance of the decade, like agree that their "P5" scheduling requirements will continue to be "P"5, with the Big12 counted despite their coming drop down into "tweener" status.

But the big Conference Realignment working coalition to take down the SEC before the SEC takes us down is going to remain fodder for conference board hysteria rather than an agenda for the coalition.

And of course, the Coalition is not going to be a marriage ... if it survives the whole 20s, then when the ACC is in its own "countdown to the end of the GOR" period, the period of constructive cooperation between the three is almost certain to come to an end.

Well...while I mostly agree---Its not entirely message board fodder. It is clearly an alliance of the ACC, Pac12, and Big10---with the SEC conspicuously absent---with multiple articles claiming the goal of the alliance is to counter the SEC's growing dominance and influence in college athletics. I dont think its an effort to break up the SEC like its the old Bell Telephone monopoly---but I do think the purpose is to prevent the SEC from simply becoming ONLY voice in the room that matters when the CFP and other major FBS /NCAA topics are discussed.

(08-13-2021 10:35 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 08:24 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 08:06 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 07:49 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I'm more curious to see if this leads to possible closed door discussion about dissecting the BigXII. The idea seems fantastical and probably not close to reality but it's fun to imagine.

I'd like to see something good happen to at least some of the remaining 8, but I'm not optimistic.

The B1G is driving this alliance. There are academic snobs in both the Pac and the ACC that the B1G consider to be peers. This alliance is: 1) opposition to the SEC and 2) a signal that they're not interested in expanding with B12 schools.

Yeah I definitely won't say you're wrong but I have a sneaky suspicion that the PAC will add some of the BigXII leftovers. What is probably fantasy land is all 8 being rescued. I have said in numerous threads, I truly believe Kansas, Okie St., and Texas Tech will find homes, for the rest it's going to be tough.

These conferences, especially the B1G and Pac, are elitist clubs. They're looking for schools that have high academic reputations, bring in large amounts of research dollars, and generate football TV ratings that translate into media contract value. Nothing against the remaining 8 on my part, but these aren't schools the B1G and Pac desire to be associated with. The only ones that come close, Kansas and Iowa State, are both AAU. They would at least get a hearing from them. But, Kansas has a terrible football program with little media value, and Iowa State is located in the wrong place (small state, existing B1G school).

The Pac needs games in the Central and Eastern time zones. If this alliance works the way it is intended, they'll get those games without having to add B12 schools to their conference.

Also, with this alliance, the B1G gets a more formal relationship with ACC schools they like (UNC and UVa).

I wouldn't want to be one of the remaining 8 B12 schools tonight.

I dont see how it helps the Pac12 at all in terms of central and eastern time zone games. They might play at those times---but as a VISITOR. Since they would not be the home team, those games are not part of the Pac12 TV package.

(08-13-2021 10:35 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 08:24 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 08:06 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 07:49 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  I'm more curious to see if this leads to possible closed door discussion about dissecting the BigXII. The idea seems fantastical and probably not close to reality but it's fun to imagine.

I'd like to see something good happen to at least some of the remaining 8, but I'm not optimistic.

The B1G is driving this alliance. There are academic snobs in both the Pac and the ACC that the B1G consider to be peers. This alliance is: 1) opposition to the SEC and 2) a signal that they're not interested in expanding with B12 schools.

Yeah I definitely won't say you're wrong but I have a sneaky suspicion that the PAC will add some of the BigXII leftovers. What is probably fantasy land is all 8 being rescued. I have said in numerous threads, I truly believe Kansas, Okie St., and Texas Tech will find homes, for the rest it's going to be tough.

These conferences, especially the B1G and Pac, are elitist clubs. They're looking for schools that have high academic reputations, bring in large amounts of research dollars, and generate football TV ratings that translate into media contract value. Nothing against the remaining 8 on my part, but these aren't schools the B1G and Pac desire to be associated with. The only ones that come close, Kansas and Iowa State, are both AAU. They would at least get a hearing from them. But, Kansas has a terrible football program with little media value, and Iowa State is located in the wrong place (small state, existing B1G school).

The Pac needs games in the Central and Eastern time zones. If this alliance works the way it is intended, they'll get those games without having to add B12 schools to their conference.

Also, with this alliance, the B1G gets a more formal relationship with ACC schools they like (UNC and UVa).

I wouldn't want to be one of the remaining 8 B12 schools tonight.

The PAC doesn't really need anything, their geography has kept them safe for decades. Over the last 50 years it's hard to name a more stable conference.

In the 21st century though they would like more TV sets and a bigger TV contract. Fostering good working relationships with 2(ACC/B1) of the top conferences in college athletics is a step towards that.

My contention is taking a few schools from the Central time zone that can help bolster your athletics and get you new viewers is step 2. Everyone loves to point out the academic snobbery of the PAC and B1G, there's a lot of truth in those statements. The big difference between the two is what they are willing to accept. B1G will only accept AAU schools(and Notre Dame), this is not true in the PAC. R1 is your minimum ticket for entry from an academic perspective. Kansas(AAU), Oklahoma state(R1), and Texas Tech(R1) all meet the minimum PAC requirements. All 3 also represent new markets and a very legitimate foot into a new time zone. I will concede that I am not certain over who exactly should be the 4th school, there are options but none as strong as these 3.

This should be a fascinating next 5 years to see what happens.

(08-13-2021 08:08 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 08:06 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  VOTE:

SPECTRE

Legion of DOOM

The Skulls

Illuminati

"The Five Families"

Bowlsby about to get the Moe Green Special.

You mean the SEC will have a Christening and take them all out at once.

This won't end well should the ACC ally against the SEC. No USC/Clemson, no Florida/FSU, no Georgia/Georgia Tech and no Kentucky/Louisville. And no hands off Florida State and Clemson.

There are a lot of schools in the Big 10 and PAC and about 35% of the ACC that would rather not live as semi-pro sports departments. NIL and possible cap-less stipends have them stirred up. ESPN will monitor it. It may give birth to 2 different leagues, one semiprofessional and one permitting NIL but keeping things scholarship only. If so 5-7 Big 10 schools and half of the ACC and a few from the PAC may opt all in and the 2 leagues will be born. We'll know in a few years.

Follow up detail from The Athletic:

Quote:Matt Fortuna
Staff Writer, CFB

An implementation committee has been formed among the three conferences to further study such an alliance, a source tells The Athletic. The ACC representatives on the committee are Clemson AD Dan Radakovich, North Carolina AD Bubba Cunningham and Virginia AD Carla Williams.

4h ago

(08-14-2021 01:43 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Follow up detail from The Athletic:

Quote:Matt Fortuna
Staff Writer, CFB

An implementation committee has been formed among the three conferences to further study such an alliance, a source tells The Athletic. The ACC representatives on the committee are Clemson AD Dan Radakovich, North Carolina AD Bubba Cunningham and Virginia AD Carla Williams.

4h ago

No ND on the committee this time.

I like the idea of The PAC, Big Ten and ACC working together. I’m just not so sure it’s the best thing for The ACC to be doing to bite the hand that feeds it.

I remember all to well The Big East turning down ESPN’s contract offer and months later Pitt and Syracuse being invited to join The ACC out of the blue.

ESPN has a long memory and a lot of cash. Ask UCONN about the four letter network holding a grudge. The remaining Big 12 teams will soon find out what bucking up against ESPN gets you.

I know many ACC fans believe ESPN has turned into The SEC’s media outlet and welcome this alliance. The Big 10 and PAC both have relationships with Fox. ESPN owns exclusive rights to The ACC. Tread lightly Jim Phillips.

(08-14-2021 05:04 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I like the idea of The PAC, Big Ten and ACC working together. I’m just not so sure it’s the best thing for The ACC to be doing to bite the hand that feeds it.

I remember all to well The Big East turning down ESPN’s contract offer and months later Pitt and Syracuse being invited to join The ACC out of the blue.

ESPN has a long memory and a lot of cash. Ask UCONN about the four letter network holding a grudge. The remaining Big 12 teams will soon find out what bucking up against ESPN gets you.

I know many ACC fans believe ESPN has turned into The SEC’s media outlet and welcome this alliance. The Big 10 and PAC both have relationships with Fox. ESPN owns exclusive rights to The ACC. Tread lightly Jim Phillips.

The conspiracy theorist in me wants to view this as the new ACC Commish from Big 10 land priming the ACC to be served on a sliver platter when the time is right

(08-14-2021 05:53 AM)solohawks Wrote:  The conspiracy theorist in me wants to view this as the new ACC Commish from Big 10 land priming the ACC to be served on a sliver platter when the time is right

Its happened before.

Former Big East Commissioner John Marinatto was rumored to have met with John Swofford about taking Big East football programs for ACC expansion when he was the Big East Senior Associate Commissioner.

I’m not saying that’s what is happening now. I do, however, find it interesting that the AD’s of two of the programs The Big Ten supposedly targeted in 2012 (UNC and UVa) are representing The ACC in this alliance.

Remember Germany and the Soviet Union surprised the world by signing the German-Soviet Nonaggression Pac in August 1939. Germany broke the agreement in June 1941.

With friends like that who needs enemies.

(08-14-2021 06:21 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-14-2021 05:53 AM)solohawks Wrote:  The conspiracy theorist in me wants to view this as the new ACC Commish from Big 10 land priming the ACC to be served on a sliver platter when the time is right

Its happened before.

Former Big East Commissioner John Marinatto was rumored to have met with John Swofford about taking Big East football programs for ACC expansion when he was the Big East Senior Associate Commissioner.

I’m not saying that’s what is happening now. I do, however, find it interesting that the AD’s of two of the programs The Big Ten supposedly targeted in 2012 (UNC and UVa) are representing The ACC in this alliance.

Remember Germany and the Soviet Union surprised the world by signing the German-Soviet Nonaggression Pac in August 1939. Germany broke the agreement in June 1941.

With friends like that who needs enemies.

Very interesting point!

If I remember correctly the Big 10 targeted GA Tech and a big reason for rejection was they didn't want to be an island

If you can now convince UNC and UVA you get GA Tech too and then throw in Miami to round out your new Eastern Divison of the 18 team Big 10. It will be very interesting as this unfolds and the ACC gets closer to a grant of right expiration.

The ACC tournament ain't the binding tie it used to be

I think while UNC and UVA generally like and respect the ACC, now more than ever it would be easier to leave as the layout gap grows to extremes

(08-13-2021 08:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-13-2021 07:30 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  https://theathletic.com/news/big-ten-pac...v1mfs4guai


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So, if the "power" comes from the combined ACC/Big10/Pac12 voting block---why not include the Big12? The B12 still carries the same voting power as any other P5 for now---and its pretty likely the Big12 would be the most sympathetic of all P5 conferences to concerns of SEC dominance and poaching. Clearly not a good sign for the Big12's "power" future.

Im pretty sure that when the dust settles after the NCAA Constitutional Committee---every FBS conference will have vast autonomous powers allowing each to run their conferences in the manner each sees fit. Because each conference will have the power to largely operate independently of the rest---I dont think a voting "alliance" will make much difference---In fact, if the alliance conferences act too similarly---they could very well cause themselves antitrust issues in light of the recent Supreme Court decision.

Regardless of how effective it will ultimately be---its still a very interesting development.

Probably not inviting the Big 12 means there will only be a P4

(08-13-2021 09:20 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  An alliance for what?

B1G should just cherry pick who they want and be done with it. This news sounds like they won't be moving in that direction.

That's what I think this is. Create "synergy" around the three conferences. The new acc commish is a northwestern guy and has a relationship with warren. Pac 12 and big ten have a long history. The big ten wants to make usc unc and other high value aau schools get more cozy with the big ten, then in ten years the big ten calls "hey we can pay you 30 mill more annually" I might be reading into this too much though.