https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/...l-79404084

Hard to understand how they could claim no jurisdiction for protecting football players but penalize Penn St. for ignoring suspicions that a former coach used the facilities to promote his pedophilia.

Shows that its all based on the media at the time. The Baylor case was more directly involved with athletics. I said at the time that the NCAA really should have no jurisdiction over Penn St. and that it was a police matter.

And they say they never heard of anything like it? Florida St.? Notre Dame? Missouri? Montana? Montana may well have been worse. In each case athletes were protected. At FSU, the accuser was hounded off campus. At Notre Dame the accuser committed suicide after the campus police lackadaisically investigated. I believe the Missouri woman also committed suicide after the university more or less ignored it.

(08-11-2021 10:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/...l-79404084

Hard to understand how they could claim no jurisdiction for protecting football players but penalize Penn St. for ignoring suspicions that a former coach used the facilities to promote his pedophilia.

Shows that its all based on the media at the time. The Baylor case was more directly involved with athletics. I said at the time that the NCAA really should have no jurisdiction over Penn St. and that it was a police matter.

And they say they never heard of anything like it? Florida St.? Notre Dame? Missouri? Montana? Montana may well have been worse. In each case athletes were protected. At FSU, the accuser was hounded off campus. At Notre Dame the accuser committed suicide after the campus police lackadaisically investigated. I believe the Missouri woman also committed suicide after the university more or less ignored it.

For one, the NCAA only had the oral report from Pepper Hamilton, right?

Other schools released their reports and while a judge allowed more from the report to be public in 2020, how much was given to the NCAA so that the CoI could act?

It'd be fascinating to see if Art Briles gets hired this Winter. Would think this finding removes many, if not all, concerns relating to his tenure at Baylor.

https://theathletic.com/2765720/2021/08/...ed-article


Just because you asked about Briles

Penn State should have had an SMU like penalty for what happened. High levels of administration covered up a misuse of their football facilities in a criminal manner.

(08-11-2021 10:45 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  https://theathletic.com/2765720/2021/08/...ed-article


Just because you asked about Briles

Remember not everyone here has a subscription.

(08-11-2021 10:47 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  

(08-11-2021 10:45 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  https://theathletic.com/2765720/2021/08/...ed-article

Just because you asked about Briles

Remember not everyone here has a subscription.

Can't copy the entire article because of copyright, but we can excerpt a few paragraphs:

Quote:“In the most literal sense … it appears that Baylor lacked institutional control,” the report said. “But Constitution (sections) 2 and 6 address control of an institution’s athletics program. Thus, it is not clear to the panel that these constitutional provisions are intended to reach the kind of widespread institutional failings that are at issue in this case, even when some of those failings occurred within the institution’s athletics department.”

It’s similar to the logic applied in the North Carolina academic fraud case in 2017, when the issue at hand was so pervasive on campus that athletic department misdeeds couldn’t be deemed an NCAA violation. The panel emphasized in the Baylor report that whether the NCAA infractions process should have a role in cases like this one is up to the member schools.

So while Baylor and Briles were found negligent in their handling of sexual and interpersonal violence, there’s nothing the NCAA will do about it from a rules standpoint.

“Baylor admitted to moral and ethical failings in its handling of sexual and interpersonal violence on campus but argued those failings, however egregious, did not constitute violations of NCAA legislation,” the report stated. “Ultimately, and with tremendous reluctance, this panel agrees.”

The fact that Baylor claims to be a religious institution is a joke. Its a sports and money institution first and foremost. Other religious schools have issues come up from time to time and they handle them, even if its not always perfectly done. But Baylor is a joke. This deal would never fly at most other private religious colleges.

This institution seems to consistently lack ethics, not to mention any sort of morals, and has for decades without changing at all.

(08-11-2021 11:58 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-11-2021 10:47 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  

(08-11-2021 10:45 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  https://theathletic.com/2765720/2021/08/...ed-article

Just because you asked about Briles

Remember not everyone here has a subscription.

Can't copy the entire article because of copyright, but we can excerpt a few paragraphs:

Quote:“In the most literal sense … it appears that Baylor lacked institutional control,” the report said. “But Constitution (sections) 2 and 6 address control of an institution’s athletics program. Thus, it is not clear to the panel that these constitutional provisions are intended to reach the kind of widespread institutional failings that are at issue in this case, even when some of those failings occurred within the institution’s athletics department.”

It’s similar to the logic applied in the North Carolina academic fraud case in 2017, when the issue at hand was so pervasive on campus that athletic department misdeeds couldn’t be deemed an NCAA violation. The panel emphasized in the Baylor report that whether the NCAA infractions process should have a role in cases like this one is up to the member schools.

So while Baylor and Briles were found negligent in their handling of sexual and interpersonal violence, there’s nothing the NCAA will do about it from a rules standpoint.

“Baylor admitted to moral and ethical failings in its handling of sexual and interpersonal violence on campus but argued those failings, however egregious, did not constitute violations of NCAA legislation,” the report stated. “Ultimately, and with tremendous reluctance, this panel agrees.”

I have a subscription since 2017 and for another eight months and overpaid for, but I realize that the link doesn't provide much.

(08-12-2021 12:03 AM)Todor Wrote:  The fact that Baylor claims to be a religious institution is a joke. Its a sports and money institution first and foremost. Other religious schools have issues come up from time to time and they handle them, even if its not always perfectly done. But Baylor is a joke. This deal would never fly at most other private religious colleges.

This institution seems to consistently lack ethics, not to mention any sort of morals, and has for decades without changing at all.

Agreed!! All of the women and families affected by the Baylor scandal should get together, make a trip to the Baptist General Convention of Texas' headquarters and demand that the Texas Baptist Association disassociate themselves from Baylor University ASAP because of this scandal!!if the Texas Baptists so desire, they can support the divinity school, but that is all that I would let them support, IMO. It would be similar to what the North Carolina Baptists did to Wake Forest University., because of the Reynolds family buying the school and moving it to Winston-Salem.

(08-12-2021 03:11 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(08-12-2021 12:03 AM)Todor Wrote:  The fact that Baylor claims to be a religious institution is a joke. Its a sports and money institution first and foremost. Other religious schools have issues come up from time to time and they handle them, even if its not always perfectly done. But Baylor is a joke. This deal would never fly at most other private religious colleges.

This institution seems to consistently lack ethics, not to mention any sort of morals, and has for decades without changing at all.

Agreed!! All of the women and families affected by the Baylor scandal should get together, make a trip to the Baptist General Convention of Texas' headquarters and demand that the Texas Baptist Association disassociate themselves from Baylor University ASAP because of this scandal!!if the Texas Baptists so desire, they can support the divinity school, but that is all that I would let them support, IMO. It would be similar to what the North Carolina Baptists did to Wake Forest University., because of the Reynolds family buying the school and moving it to Winston-Salem.

The move of Wake Forest from Wake Forest, NC to Winston-Salem, NC occurred in 1956.
The split with the State Baptist Convention took place in 1986 over academic freedom.

(08-12-2021 04:26 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-12-2021 03:11 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(08-12-2021 12:03 AM)Todor Wrote:  The fact that Baylor claims to be a religious institution is a joke. Its a sports and money institution first and foremost. Other religious schools have issues come up from time to time and they handle them, even if its not always perfectly done. But Baylor is a joke. This deal would never fly at most other private religious colleges.

This institution seems to consistently lack ethics, not to mention any sort of morals, and has for decades without changing at all.

Agreed!! All of the women and families affected by the Baylor scandal should get together, make a trip to the Baptist General Convention of Texas' headquarters and demand that the Texas Baptist Association disassociate themselves from Baylor University ASAP because of this scandal!!if the Texas Baptists so desire, they can support the divinity school, but that is all that I would let them support, IMO. It would be similar to what the North Carolina Baptists did to Wake Forest University., because of the Reynolds family buying the school and moving it to Winston-Salem.

The move of Wake Forest from Wake Forest, NC to Winston-Salem, NC occurred in 1956.
The split with the State Baptist Convention took place in 1986 over academic freedom.

Thank you, Xlance. I was somewhat unsure of why the State Baptist Convention split with Wake Forest University, and assumed it had something to do with the Reynolds Family takeover and move of WFU to Winston-Salem. Still, I believe that the State Baptist Convention of Texas should do the same to Baylor over the football program scandal.

(08-11-2021 10:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It'd be fascinating to see if Art Briles gets hired this Winter. Would think this finding removes many, if not all, concerns relating to his tenure at Baylor.

How so? It's not like the report vindicates him in some way.

(08-11-2021 10:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It'd be fascinating to see if Art Briles gets hired this Winter. Would think this finding removes many, if not all, concerns relating to his tenure at Baylor.

Quote:COI on Art Briles:

- "Incurious attitude" toward potential criminal conduct by his players was "deeply troubling"

- "Failed to meet even the most basic expectations of how a person should react to the kind of conduct at issue in this case."

- Not technically an NCAA violation

(08-12-2021 07:33 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(08-11-2021 10:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It'd be fascinating to see if Art Briles gets hired this Winter. Would think this finding removes many, if not all, concerns relating to his tenure at Baylor.

Quote:COI on Art Briles:

- "Incurious attitude" toward potential criminal conduct by his players was "deeply troubling"

- "Failed to meet even the most basic expectations of how a person should react to the kind of conduct at issue in this case."

- Not technically an NCAA violation

That is one area where I agree with them. Its similar to Joe Paterno. He sent the report to the people responsible, the president and chief of the police. He was "incurious" after that, but the scathing report from the NCAA on his particular role was unjustified. The other 3's condemnation was justified as they were the responsible parties, but it was a criminal matter and two of the three were convicted (not sure about President Spanier).

(08-12-2021 07:26 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-11-2021 10:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It'd be fascinating to see if Art Briles gets hired this Winter. Would think this finding removes many, if not all, concerns relating to his tenure at Baylor.

How so? It's not like the report vindicates him in some way.

FWIW, I would not want Briles as my school's head coach, but many other scandalous coaches have been (re)hired in the past decade alone - Petrino, Sarkisian, Freeze, Miles, etc. All it takes is one school that is under pressure to win to make a play. I would guess that Briles will likely get another P5 (or perhaps high-G5) coaching job this winter.

The findings affirmed that Art Briles committed no NCAA violations. While his "incurious attitude" and questionable response was highlighted, he did not break any rules or laws. If anything, the report really highlighted that it was not an Art Briles-problem at Baylor, or even a football-problem at Baylor, but an institutional problem at Baylor in how sexual assaults are handled, reported and investigated at the school.

For any new school that hires him, that would be an easy PR spin to sell and deflect.

(08-12-2021 10:02 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(08-12-2021 07:26 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(08-11-2021 10:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It'd be fascinating to see if Art Briles gets hired this Winter. Would think this finding removes many, if not all, concerns relating to his tenure at Baylor.

How so? It's not like the report vindicates him in some way.

FWIW, I would not want Briles as my school's head coach, but many other scandalous coaches have been (re)hired in the past decade alone - Petrino, Sarkisian, Freeze, Miles, etc. All it takes is one school that is under pressure to win to make a play. I would guess that Briles will likely get another P5 (or perhaps high-G5) coaching job this winter.

The findings affirmed that Art Briles committed no NCAA violations. While his "incurious attitude" and questionable response was highlighted, he did not break any rules or laws. If anything, the report really highlighted that it was not an Art Briles-problem at Baylor, or even a football-problem at Baylor, but an institutional problem at Baylor in how sexual assaults are handled, reported and investigated at the school.

For any new school that hires him, that would be an easy PR spin to sell and deflect.

"He didn't technically break any rules, but he's still a piece of ****"

Not a great spin there. I mean there's this as well:

Quote:"Failed to meet even the most basic expectations of how a person should react to the kind of conduct at issue in this case."

How do you spin that?

(08-11-2021 10:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/...l-79404084

Hard to understand how they could claim no jurisdiction for protecting football players but penalize Penn St. for ignoring suspicions that a former coach used the facilities to promote his pedophilia.

Shows that its all based on the media at the time. The Baylor case was more directly involved with athletics. I said at the time that the NCAA really should have no jurisdiction over Penn St. and that it was a police matter.

And they say they never heard of anything like it? Florida St.? Notre Dame? Missouri? Montana? Montana may well have been worse. In each case athletes were protected. At FSU, the accuser was hounded off campus. At Notre Dame the accuser committed suicide after the campus police lackadaisically investigated. I believe the Missouri woman also committed suicide after the university more or less ignored it.

I don't see it as based on the media. I see it more based on how badly overreaching vs PSU when as you said it was a police matter. The NCAA didn't want to have that happen again so they took a different course of action.

Without the PSU case and the negative result for the NCAA having to walk things back I do think the BU case would have gone similarly.

(08-12-2021 10:17 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(08-11-2021 10:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/...l-79404084

Hard to understand how they could claim no jurisdiction for protecting football players but penalize Penn St. for ignoring suspicions that a former coach used the facilities to promote his pedophilia.

Shows that its all based on the media at the time. The Baylor case was more directly involved with athletics. I said at the time that the NCAA really should have no jurisdiction over Penn St. and that it was a police matter.

And they say they never heard of anything like it? Florida St.? Notre Dame? Missouri? Montana? Montana may well have been worse. In each case athletes were protected. At FSU, the accuser was hounded off campus. At Notre Dame the accuser committed suicide after the campus police lackadaisically investigated. I believe the Missouri woman also committed suicide after the university more or less ignored it.

I don't see it as based on the media. I see it more based on how badly overreaching vs PSU when as you said it was a police matter. The NCAA didn't want to have that happen again so they took a different course of action.

Without the PSU case and the negative result for the NCAA having to walk things back I do think the BU case would have gone similarly.

Good point.

The NCAA became increasingly inconsistent in handling investigations and applying sanctions over the years. Deference was shown to some of the more powerful schools while others, perhaps with less extreme violations, received comparatively harsher penalties.
Politics, power, relationships, lawsuit threats, and favoring self-imposed, poorly monitored sanctions, compromised consistency and objectivity.

PSU was a criminal case, and the NCAA meddled beyond its scope. The BIG looking for a money grab from Pennsylvania taxpayers was unseemly.

Yeah, I kinda expected nothing from the NCAA on this one. Getting their blocks knocked off by PSU and UNC have set precedents that the NCAA no longer has any comprehension on how to manage or interpret the “institutional control” violation.

After those two (PSU and UNC), it’s really pitiful that Michigan State and now Baylor get to just walk away from this stuff. Probably going to be the same if anything comes of Ohio State and Michigan, too.

But, at this point, I think it’s almost administratively intentional. The NCAA has made it known it can’t do what it’s supposed to, looking upward for help, and then calling conventions on restructuring. Failed by design so it can be relieved by someone else. Still all the lazy, but even less output.