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The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
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Transic_nyc Offline
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The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
08-08-2021 07:07 AM
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goofus Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
I have to confess, I like to focus on the teams that have recently moved or thinking of moving

4. L.A. Rams. $4.8B
16. LV Raiders $3.4
23. LA Chargers $2.9B
26. Jax Jaguars $2.8
32. Buf Bills $2.3

So it seems like to me the Chargers did not gain much value from moving to LA. But I guess that was always considered a long term payoff.

The LA Rams are now the 4th most valuable franchise but had to build a $5B stadium to get there. Why the LA stadium cost so much is still a mystery to me but I guess it involved also developing the land around the stadium.

The Raiders are given credit for getting the government to pay $0.7B of the total cost for its new stadium but with the total cost ending up being almost $2B, the Raiders ended up having to pay $1.2B of the total cost for the stadium. Amazing to think about.

If the Jags were to move to London, they already have 2 potential stadiums waiting for them. One of them the Jags owner tried to buy a couple of years ago before he mysteriously pulled out. I still believe its a given that the Jags will move to London eventually, although the pandemic has slowed that process down. BREXIT should help though.

I think the Bills are looking for a Indianapolis Colts type deal from the city of Buffalo and state of New York. The colts got the state and city to pay for $620M out of the total $$720M cost for Lucas Oil Stadium at the time. I still consider this the best stadium deal of this century.
(This post was last modified: 08-17-2021 07:37 AM by goofus.)
08-17-2021 07:18 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
I think the valuation of the Chargers is limited by the fact they are a tenant in Kroenke's palace.
08-17-2021 12:45 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
Those valuations have a baseline that depends only on being one of 32 owners that gets an equal share of the ginormous NFL revenue pie. You can be in an old stadium in the #50 (New Orleans) or #52 (Buffalo) TV market and still have a club worth over $2 billion, just because they have a share of that NFL revenue.

Another thought: If the Broncos franchise is really worth $3.75 billion, it's amazing that the Bowlen children haven't yet found a way to force the trust to sell the team so they can each get their share of the sale proceeds.
08-17-2021 01:21 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
(08-17-2021 01:21 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Those valuations have a baseline that depends only on being one of 32 owners that gets an equal share of the ginormous NFL revenue pie. You can be in an old stadium in the #50 (New Orleans) or #52 (Buffalo) TV market and still have a club worth over $2 billion, just because they have a share of that NFL revenue.

Another thought: If the Broncos franchise is really worth $3.75 billion, it's amazing that the Bowlen children haven't yet found a way to force the trust to sell the team so they can each get their share of the sale proceeds.

I'm surprised that Bowlen nor Allen had no plan for Broncos and Seahawks respectively in the event of their passing.
08-18-2021 05:10 AM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
(08-18-2021 05:10 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(08-17-2021 01:21 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Those valuations have a baseline that depends only on being one of 32 owners that gets an equal share of the ginormous NFL revenue pie. You can be in an old stadium in the #50 (New Orleans) or #52 (Buffalo) TV market and still have a club worth over $2 billion, just because they have a share of that NFL revenue.

Another thought: If the Broncos franchise is really worth $3.75 billion, it's amazing that the Bowlen children haven't yet found a way to force the trust to sell the team so they can each get their share of the sale proceeds.

I'm surprised that Bowlen nor Allen had no plan for Broncos and Seahawks respectively in the event of their passing.

In Bowlen's case, most of his heirs fought the trustees' control but seemed really slow to challenge it. The trustees, who are not family members, seem to enjoy the power of running an NFL team and don't want to relinquish it. (Maybe they also don't want to relinquish the fees they get for serving as trustees.)

In Allen's case, his charitable foundation now owns the team and apparently his sister, who is running the foundation, has no intent to sell the Seahawks or Blazers but there's an argument over whether Paul Allen intended that the teams be sold so that the sale proceeds could go into the foundation.
08-18-2021 11:36 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
29 and 31 seems about right for the Ohio teams. Way to bring up the rear.
08-19-2021 11:34 AM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
(08-17-2021 07:18 AM)goofus Wrote:  I have to confess, I like to focus on the teams that have recently moved or thinking of moving

4. L.A. Rams. $4.8B
16. LV Raiders $3.4
23. LA Chargers $2.9B
26. Jax Jaguars $2.8
32. Buf Bills $2.3

So it seems like to me the Chargers did not gain much value from moving to LA. But I guess that was always considered a long term payoff.

The LA Rams are now the 4th most valuable franchise but had to build a $5B stadium to get there. Why the LA stadium cost so much is still a mystery to me but I guess it involved also developing the land around the stadium.

The Raiders are given credit for getting the government to pay $0.7B of the total cost for its new stadium but with the total cost ending up being almost $2B, the Raiders ended up having to pay $1.2B of the total cost for the stadium. Amazing to think about.

I don’t care what Forbes thinks the Chargers are worth today, that was a smart move to get out of San Diego. The Chargers had over 68,000 fans in SoFi Stadium for their preseason game against the 49ers on Sunday. Justin Herbert looks like a rising star at quarterback. Drew Brees has been seen at Charger practices advising Herbert.

If you ever get a chance to see SoFi Stadium, you will understand why the stadium cost $5 billion. The Raiders got $700 million in public money when no one was getting that kind of public contribution. I have seen the Raiders stadium from the outside and I hope to see it from the inside this
season. It looked good from the outside.
08-24-2021 12:11 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
(08-24-2021 12:11 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  I don’t care what Forbes thinks the Chargers are worth today, that was a smart move to get out of San Diego. The Chargers had over 68,000 fans in SoFi Stadium for their preseason game against the 49ers on Sunday. Justin Herbert looks like a rising star at quarterback. Drew Brees has been seen at Charger practices advising Herbert.

If you ever get a chance to see SoFi Stadium, you will understand why the stadium cost $5 billion. The Raiders got $700 million in public money when no one was getting that kind of public contribution. I have seen the Raiders stadium from the outside and I hope to see it from the inside this
season. It looked good from the outside.

It was the only move available. It's not as if Spanos had the money to build his own facility. Same for Davis.

I don't think anyone is shocked by the final price tag of SoFi Stadium. When it come to megaprojects, its a safe bet you can take estimated cost and double it.
08-24-2021 07:04 AM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
(08-24-2021 07:04 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 12:11 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  I don’t care what Forbes thinks the Chargers are worth today, that was a smart move to get out of San Diego. The Chargers had over 68,000 fans in SoFi Stadium for their preseason game against the 49ers on Sunday. Justin Herbert looks like a rising star at quarterback. Drew Brees has been seen at Charger practices advising Herbert.

If you ever get a chance to see SoFi Stadium, you will understand why the stadium cost $5 billion. The Raiders got $700 million in public money when no one was getting that kind of public contribution. I have seen the Raiders stadium from the outside and I hope to see it from the inside this
season. It looked good from the outside.

It was the only move available. It's not as if Spanos had the money to build his own facility. Same for Davis.

I don't think anyone is shocked by the final price tag of SoFi Stadium. When it come to megaprojects, its a safe bet you can take estimated cost and double it.

That's right. Spanos and Davis are both cash-poor, their only significant asset is the ownership of the team. Kroenke, on the other hand, has other businesses and assets and can borrow whatever he needs to finance his stadium and the surrounding development, even when it costs $5 billion.

Spanos doesn't like Kroenke and would have taken any option other than being Kroenke's tenant, if he had the money, or if he could have found someone to give him $700 million like the Raiders did.
08-24-2021 12:02 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
(08-24-2021 07:04 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(08-24-2021 12:11 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  I don’t care what Forbes thinks the Chargers are worth today, that was a smart move to get out of San Diego. The Chargers had over 68,000 fans in SoFi Stadium for their preseason game against the 49ers on Sunday. Justin Herbert looks like a rising star at quarterback. Drew Brees has been seen at Charger practices advising Herbert.

If you ever get a chance to see SoFi Stadium, you will understand why the stadium cost $5 billion. The Raiders got $700 million in public money when no one was getting that kind of public contribution. I have seen the Raiders stadium from the outside and I hope to see it from the inside this
season. It looked good from the outside.

It was the only move available. It's not as if Spanos had the money to build his own facility. Same for Davis.

I don't think anyone is shocked by the final price tag of SoFi Stadium. When it come to megaprojects, its a safe bet you can take estimated cost and double it.

They had choices, but the NFL decided for them if they were going to move to Los Angeles. In 2015, there was a joint project with the Raiders for a stadium in Carson that they were pursuing. There was a proposal for a downtown stadium, a proposal for a stadium in the City of Industry, about twenty miles east of downtown Los Angeles, and the Hollywood Park Project that Stan Kroenke wanted to built.

The NFL owners voted for the Hollywood Park project and gave the Chargers an option to join. If they had declined, the Raiders would have moved in. The owners basically eliminated the other options for Spanos, and it made sense since Kroenke was paying for the project and there was no public money involved.

As for the Stadium cost, it is not your typical stadium. It is the most expensive stadium ever built and ii is not even close. It is the largest NFL Stadium with the largest video scoreboard in history. It was built paritally underground to avoid the LAX flight path and it had to meet California seismic standards. It has all of the amenities and the latest technology. Spanos is fortunate to call the stadium home for his Chargers.
08-25-2021 08:28 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
Will anyone actually come to Chargers games in that new palace?
08-26-2021 05:25 PM
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goofus Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
(08-26-2021 05:25 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Will anyone actually come to Chargers games in that new palace?

The Chargers actually sold more season tickets this year than any year in the last 5 years in San Diego.

What is not clear is how many season tickets actually went to Chargers fans and how many went to ticket scalpers who will turn around and sell each game's tickets to visiting fans.
08-26-2021 09:33 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
(08-25-2021 08:28 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  They had choices, but the NFL decided for them if they were going to move to Los Angeles. In 2015, there was a joint project with the Raiders for a stadium in Carson that they were pursuing. There was a proposal for a downtown stadium, a proposal for a stadium in the City of Industry, about twenty miles east of downtown Los Angeles, and the Hollywood Park Project that Stan Kroenke wanted to built.

Proposals aren't worth the paper they are printed on. While I loved to Industry design, both it and the Farmers Field were predicated on the construction partners getting partial ownership of a team. Without expansion, that was never going to happen. The Carson site, if memory serves, was going to have significant environmental issues to overcome. To say nothing of where Spanos and Davis would get the money to build the stadium at all.
Quote:The NFL owners voted for the Hollywood Park project and gave the Chargers an option to join. If they had declined, the Raiders would have moved in. The owners basically eliminated the other options for Spanos, and it made sense since Kroenke was paying for the project and there was no public money involved.

My understanding was that no one, from the league owners to city officials, wanted the Raiders in the metro LA area. New relocation rules precluded Davis from unilaterally moving like his dad did in the 90's. As for Spanos, I didn't see one alternative that provided the funds to build a new stadium. The NFL wasn't offering him a loan because his only collateral was the team.
Quote:As for the Stadium cost, it is not your typical stadium. It is the most expensive stadium ever built and ii is not even close. It is the largest NFL Stadium with the largest video scoreboard in history. It was built partially underground to avoid the LAX flight path and it had to meet California seismic standards. It has all of the amenities and the latest technology. Spanos is fortunate to call the stadium home for his Chargers.

That was all apart of the original $2.66B construction estimate.
08-27-2021 06:15 AM
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Love and Honor Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
(08-26-2021 09:33 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(08-26-2021 05:25 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Will anyone actually come to Chargers games in that new palace?

The Chargers actually sold more season tickets this year than any year in the last 5 years in San Diego.

What is not clear is how many season tickets actually went to Chargers fans and how many went to ticket scalpers who will turn around and sell each game's tickets to visiting fans.

Also they've gone from a 27K temp facility to a 70K palace, that certainly helps numbers. Though you're probably right that a good chunk is probably for scalpers eager to make a killing when they get opponents like the Cowboys, Chiefs, and Raiders in town this season.
08-27-2021 10:27 AM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: The NFL’s Most Valuable Teams 2021
(08-27-2021 06:15 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  My understanding was that no one, from the league owners to city officials, wanted the Raiders in the metro LA area. New relocation rules precluded Davis from unilaterally moving like his dad did in the 90's. As for Spanos, I didn't see one alternative that provided the funds to build a new stadium. The NFL wasn't offering him a loan because his only collateral was the team.

That's right. The other owners didn't like Mark Davis any more than they liked his father, and worse, they didn't respect him either (until later, when he proved himself as a true NFL owner/conman by getting $700 million from Nevada for a stadium).

Spanos' rival stadium plan was a farce, but the other owners must have felt sorry for him and not had the heart to tell him openly that it was a farce -- so they told him in a secret ballot vote.

Kroenke got what he wanted -- including having the Chargers and not the Raiders in LA as his stadium's tenant -- because Kroenke had the money.
08-27-2021 01:47 PM
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