(07-29-2021 10:40 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  I am sure schools will want to enter a chaotic mess that is the Big 12. Looks very attractive. The commish is attacking a broadcast partner and the deal has 4 more years on it.

It's not like ESPN can rescind the deal. So why not?

(07-29-2021 12:33 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 11:23 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  ESPNs power here being overstated. They are powerful but there are competitors to keep prices up. They don't have nearly the influence here people make out.

Who at this point? NBC never invested in NBC Sports network and has essentially no streaming options and little interest or airtime to offer. CBS has essentially the same thing going on. Fox sold most of their regional networks to ESPN. If ESPN says you are worthless there isn't going to be any kind of bidding war to keep prices up, and their actions very clearly show they don't really value the rest of the B12 much more highly than the AAC to begin with.

And you're ignoring all the FAANG companies that could enter and destroy ESPN in milliseconds.

(07-29-2021 02:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  The WAC BYU project appears to me to be an ESPN driven move as well

ESPN was going to get BYU football as an indy, plus it would secure them with additional western content as they were on the outs with the MWC at the time. It also provided them with the possibility to keep Boise State from moving to the MWC and pick off top MWC teams

The AAC attempt to get Big 12 schools feels like ESPN trying a "project" again

In both cases, it's more likely that ESPN "endorsed" the move, rather than "driving" it.

After Utah joined the Pac, BYU was going to leave the MWC no matter what. ESPN didn't drive them out of the MWC.

Benson supposedly approached BYU and had this idea to get revenge for the MWC fleeing the WAC several years earlier. Did ESPN say, through intermediaries, "Sure, we could give you a TV deal for that?" Maybe so. But that's far different from some paranoid fantasy about Benson, the WAC, and BYU being nothing more than puppets controlled by ESPN.

(07-29-2021 12:47 PM)Thewavefan Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 12:39 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 10:07 AM)Thewavefan Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 09:59 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

First step towards expansion invitations being sent out?

Next steps? You mean beg the AAC to take them all. Ha, maybe we should send them to the Sun Belt where they belong.

Your school will be on its knees begging the XII.

Lol that’s hilarious. Tulane will be a major player in this round of realignment. We are the total package, academics and markets control the bus. Tulane is a power program and it’s about time we start to act like it.

Academics - yes
Market - may be underwater any day now

(07-29-2021 02:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 02:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  The WAC BYU project appears to me to be an ESPN driven move as well

ESPN was going to get BYU football as an indy, plus it would secure them with additional western content as they were on the outs with the MWC at the time. It also provided them with the possibility to keep Boise State from moving to the MWC and pick off top MWC teams

The AAC attempt to get Big 12 schools feels like ESPN trying a "project" again

In both cases, it's more likely that ESPN "endorsed" the move, rather than "driving" it.

After Utah joined the Pac, BYU was going to leave the MWC no matter what. ESPN didn't drive them out of the MWC.

Benson supposedly approached BYU and had this idea to get revenge for the MWC fleeing the WAC several years earlier. Did ESPN say, through intermediaries, "Sure, we could give you a TV deal for that?" Maybe so. But that's far different from some paranoid fantasy about Benson, the WAC, and BYU being nothing more than puppets controlled by ESPN.

Utah only joined the PAC because the anti ESPN PAC 16 project failed.

Colorado wanted into the PAC and jumped at the invite. When ESPN created the Longhorn Network to kill the PAC 16 project, Utah was the most logical candidate.

Utah leaving the MWC created an opportunity for ESPN to get BYU back.

If ESPN didnt want to fund BYU football independence it wouldn't have happened, not matter how unhappy BYU was at being left behind Utah.

We can argue about whether these moves are "driven" by ESPN or simply "endorsed" but the net result is the same....Don't Cross the Mouse

My guess on what happens next? If ESPN is receiving a cease and desist order, and the commissioner is beating his chest that protected information is being used against the conference, then the other “conspirators” are exposed. Breach suits against Texas and OU for certain so that the conference can obtain more information in discovery about how long and who was doing what? Just my guess…

(07-29-2021 02:21 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 12:33 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 11:23 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  ESPNs power here being overstated. They are powerful but there are competitors to keep prices up. They don't have nearly the influence here people make out.

Who at this point? NBC never invested in NBC Sports network and has essentially no streaming options and little interest or airtime to offer. CBS has essentially the same thing going on. Fox sold most of their regional networks to ESPN. If ESPN says you are worthless there isn't going to be any kind of bidding war to keep prices up, and their actions very clearly show they don't really value the rest of the B12 much more highly than the AAC to begin with.

And you're ignoring all the FAANG companies that could enter and destroy ESPN in milliseconds.

Let's not go overboard here.

Every time that I see a comment that ESPN is "losing money" or "going bankrupt", we need a reminder to the world that, even with a world of accelerated cord-cutting, ESPN is still the largest revenue generator and most profitable business unit of anyone in the entire *entertainment* industry. I didn't say sports or even TV industry, but ALL of entertainment.

To put it into context, ESPN grosses more subscriber fees per month than the domestic box office gross of Star Wars: The Force Awakens, which is the biggest US box office hit of all-time. Do people comprehend what I'm saying here? ESPN gets 100% guaranteed subscriber fees that are more than the biggest movie of all-time (also owned by Disney) EACH MONTH... and that's BEFORE they even sell a single ad (which happen to be among the highest in the TV industry because sports are the one of the few types of programs that people actually watch live anymore)!

The revenue juggernaut of ESPN is why Disney is still waiting until the last possible second to go to 100% streaming (even with the success of Disney+). We will likely get there someday, but it's going to take a lot longer than we all think/want because I still believe a lot of sports fans simply don't understand how wealthy and powerful ESPN is compared to everything else in the entire entertainment industry (and that's being part of a company that owns Star Wars, Marvel, Pixar, Disney Princesses, Disney World, ABC, etc.).

Simply put: a lot of fans are overestimating how much ESPN can do to put pressure on the Big 12 here... but simultaneously *seriously* underestimating how much ESPN is making per month without literally lifting a finger (as they are all 100% guaranteed subscriber fees regardless of the number of viewers). It's a revenue monster that many sports fan strangely don't realize how massive it is even compared to Disney's other key properties like Star Wars and Marvel.

(07-29-2021 01:50 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 01:33 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 01:22 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 01:18 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 12:53 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Being autonomous does matter to playoff money. Each autonomous conference gets and equal share of 70% or so while the G5 split 30%.
ESPN has no say in the matter how it’s divvied up.

No it doesn't. Autonomy legislative power was created by the NCAA for the 5 larger conference so that they could legislate to provide medical coverage, cost of living, etc back in '14/'15. Those 5 conferences want the freedom to expand benefits to student athletes and have more weight in voting on NCAA rule changes. That way a 1 bid league basketball school from say the Horizon League didn't have the same voting power at Ohio State.

The CFP is completely separate and only governed by the 10 football playing FBS conferences. Yes there are Power 5 conferences here in terms of payouts, etc but there is nothing to my knowledge that says when the playoff is renegotiated that those payouts with remain the way they are and guarantee the Big 12 a bigger cut. ESPN owns the rights and during renegotiation, they could flex their muscle to lower any Big 12 payment or exclude them from an automatic bid.

ESPN has zero say in how the schools divide the money.

I never said they had a "say" but they could certainly tell the other conferences that they'd prefer only 4 auto bids and the rest at large bids when the playoff renegotiation happens. The other conferences could then reduce the big 12's payouts to G5 level with a vote and take in the extra cash themselves...

Then the Big 12 gets to sue more people for collusion.

Heck, by the end of the decade, the 8 could be the wealthiest programs in the nation.

They aren't suing and winning anything. There is nothing actionable going on here.

"Collusion" isn't even a judicial cognizable claim.

(07-29-2021 02:34 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  My guess on what happens next? If ESPN is receiving a cease and desist order, and the commissioner is beating his chest that protected information is being used against the conference, then the other “conspirators” are exposed. Breach suits against Texas and OU for certain so that the conference can obtain more information in discovery about how long and who was doing what? Just my guess…

There is no "cease and desist order." Its an angry letter written by the Big XII Commissioner because he realizes hes going to lose a job. It has no legal meaning whatsoever.

(07-29-2021 02:21 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 12:33 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 11:23 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  ESPNs power here being overstated. They are powerful but there are competitors to keep prices up. They don't have nearly the influence here people make out.

Who at this point? NBC never invested in NBC Sports network and has essentially no streaming options and little interest or airtime to offer. CBS has essentially the same thing going on. Fox sold most of their regional networks to ESPN. If ESPN says you are worthless there isn't going to be any kind of bidding war to keep prices up, and their actions very clearly show they don't really value the rest of the B12 much more highly than the AAC to begin with.

And you're ignoring all the FAANG companies that could enter and destroy ESPN in milliseconds.

Google Sports would last for sixteen months and be randomly dropped the moment they lost interest or people criticized it. You sign with them first.

(07-29-2021 10:13 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  +2 teams first, I'll predict. Timed to enter when OU and UT negotiate a graceful exit.

BYU and UC up first, most likely. Although BYU and AFA (full), and Army+Navy (FB only) in the future is a really interesting idea. UCF, CSU, and others, get your ducks in a row too to apply! Graceful exits from your current homes encouraged, as will be favorable scheduling alliances with your old friends and rivals.

Well, what if BYU and UC decide to come and give notice, then Kansas, ISU get an invite to the B1G and OSU TCU get a bid to the ACC, What then will happen to BYU and UC ? There's the dilemma in jumping first on an invite. Might wait to see how this all shakes out first.

Conferences don’t expand for the sake of expanding. The Big Ten isn’t adding those schools and neither is the ACC.

(07-30-2021 09:39 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 10:13 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  +2 teams first, I'll predict. Timed to enter when OU and UT negotiate a graceful exit.

BYU and UC up first, most likely. Although BYU and AFA (full), and Army+Navy (FB only) in the future is a really interesting idea. UCF, CSU, and others, get your ducks in a row too to apply! Graceful exits from your current homes encouraged, as will be favorable scheduling alliances with your old friends and rivals.

Well, what if BYU and UC decide to come and give notice, then Kansas, ISU get an invite to the B1G and OSU TCU get a bid to the ACC, What then will happen to BYU and UC ? There's the dilemma in jumping first on an invite. Might wait to see how this all shakes out first.

The B12 is currently autonomous, and by adding the right teams prior to bowl payout renegotiations, will retain autonomy. That will mean they are the magnet and teams in non-autonomy conferences are steel who will constantly tell the B12 to point their magnetic poles their way.

The ironic thing about the Big XII expanding with the top AAC football programs is it actually makes the AAC fan boi’s dream of Army joining much more realistic:

AAC West

Army
Navy
Tulane
Rice
SMU
Tulsa

(07-29-2021 02:35 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 02:21 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 12:33 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 11:23 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  ESPNs power here being overstated. They are powerful but there are competitors to keep prices up. They don't have nearly the influence here people make out.

Who at this point? NBC never invested in NBC Sports network and has essentially no streaming options and little interest or airtime to offer. CBS has essentially the same thing going on. Fox sold most of their regional networks to ESPN. If ESPN says you are worthless there isn't going to be any kind of bidding war to keep prices up, and their actions very clearly show they don't really value the rest of the B12 much more highly than the AAC to begin with.

And you're ignoring all the FAANG companies that could enter and destroy ESPN in milliseconds.

Let's not go overboard here.

Every time that I see a comment that ESPN is "losing money" or "going bankrupt", we need a reminder to the world that, even with a world of accelerated cord-cutting, ESPN is still the largest revenue generator and most profitable business unit of anyone in the entire *entertainment* industry. I didn't say sports or even TV industry, but ALL of entertainment.

To put it into context, ESPN grosses more subscriber fees per month than the domestic box office gross of Star Wars: The Force Awakens, which is the biggest US box office hit of all-time. Do people comprehend what I'm saying here? ESPN gets 100% guaranteed subscriber fees that are more than the biggest movie of all-time (also owned by Disney) EACH MONTH... and that's BEFORE they even sell a single ad (which happen to be among the highest in the TV industry because sports are the one of the few types of programs that people actually watch live anymore)!

The revenue juggernaut of ESPN is why Disney is still waiting until the last possible second to go to 100% streaming (even with the success of Disney+). We will likely get there someday, but it's going to take a lot longer than we all think/want because I still believe a lot of sports fans simply don't understand how wealthy and powerful ESPN is compared to everything else in the entire entertainment industry (and that's being part of a company that owns Star Wars, Marvel, Pixar, Disney Princesses, Disney World, ABC, etc.).

Simply put: a lot of fans are overestimating how much ESPN can do to put pressure on the Big 12 here... but simultaneously *seriously* underestimating how much ESPN is making per month without literally lifting a finger (as they are all 100% guaranteed subscriber fees regardless of the number of viewers). It's a revenue monster that many sports fan strangely don't realize how massive it is even compared to Disney's other key properties like Star Wars and Marvel.

Correct, as usual. Folks confuse the fact that ESPN is no longer seeing significant growth in profits with the fact that its profits remain substantial. With the reorganization of its financial statements to better isolate streaming, Disney no longer presents a breakdown of cable vs. OTA revenues and profit. However, for its quarter ending March 31, 2021, Disney's operating profit for domestic linear TV was $2.849 billion on revenues of $6.746 billion. That's an excellent margin. ESPN and its group of networks have historically provided the largest portion of this profit. There is no reason to believe that has changed.

(07-30-2021 09:42 AM)esayem Wrote:  Conferences don’t expand for the sake of expanding. The Big Ten isn’t adding those schools and neither is the ACC.

That has always been true in the past, but this time might be different. This may be the last chance.

(07-29-2021 02:21 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 12:33 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 11:23 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  ESPNs power here being overstated. They are powerful but there are competitors to keep prices up. They don't have nearly the influence here people make out.

Who at this point? NBC never invested in NBC Sports network and has essentially no streaming options and little interest or airtime to offer. CBS has essentially the same thing going on. Fox sold most of their regional networks to ESPN. If ESPN says you are worthless there isn't going to be any kind of bidding war to keep prices up, and their actions very clearly show they don't really value the rest of the B12 much more highly than the AAC to begin with.

And you're ignoring all the FAANG companies that could enter and destroy ESPN in milliseconds.

Last I checked, Disney is winning the streaming wars too.

Disney+, Hulu, ESPN+ bundle is the best package available.

Hulu's Live Sports website already lists the SEC Network, ACC Network, BTN Network as add-on subscriptions for your Hulu account.

https://www.hulu.com/live-sports

Any update on the meeting? What time is it scheduled?

(07-30-2021 09:42 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-30-2021 09:39 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 10:13 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  +2 teams first, I'll predict. Timed to enter when OU and UT negotiate a graceful exit.

BYU and UC up first, most likely. Although BYU and AFA (full), and Army+Navy (FB only) in the future is a really interesting idea. UCF, CSU, and others, get your ducks in a row too to apply! Graceful exits from your current homes encouraged, as will be favorable scheduling alliances with your old friends and rivals.

Well, what if BYU and UC decide to come and give notice, then Kansas, ISU get an invite to the B1G and OSU TCU get a bid to the ACC, What then will happen to BYU and UC ? There's the dilemma in jumping first on an invite. Might wait to see how this all shakes out first.

The B12 is currently autonomous, and by adding the right teams prior to bowl payout renegotiations, will retain autonomy. That will mean they are the magnet and teams in non-autonomy conferences are steel who will constantly tell the B12 to point their magnetic poles their way.

Again, being autonomous has nothing to do with renegotiations for the renewal of the CFP. Autonomy has to do with NCAA rules committee and the 5 larger conferences have more control over that process. The CFP is not run by the NCAA and is only run by the 10 FBS conferences.

It is a very real possibility that the Big 12 leftovers and whatever expansion candidates join them will see reduced access to the playoff and a reduced payout from what the Big 12 was used to...and still retain A5 status with the NCAA.

B12 needs to aggressively expand.
Knowing BYU is out due to ESPN connections

Cinci, Houston, Colorado St, UCF, USF

Get to 14

(07-30-2021 09:42 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-30-2021 09:39 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 10:13 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  +2 teams first, I'll predict. Timed to enter when OU and UT negotiate a graceful exit.

BYU and UC up first, most likely. Although BYU and AFA (full), and Army+Navy (FB only) in the future is a really interesting idea. UCF, CSU, and others, get your ducks in a row too to apply! Graceful exits from your current homes encouraged, as will be favorable scheduling alliances with your old friends and rivals.

Well, what if BYU and UC decide to come and give notice, then Kansas, ISU get an invite to the B1G and OSU TCU get a bid to the ACC, What then will happen to BYU and UC ? There's the dilemma in jumping first on an invite. Might wait to see how this all shakes out first.

The B12 is currently autonomous, and by adding the right teams prior to bowl payout renegotiations, will retain autonomy. That will mean they are the magnet and teams in non-autonomy conferences are steel who will constantly tell the B12 to point their magnetic poles their way.

Also, BYU and UC could always pull a TCU or Boise State...accept the invite, but never play in the league...to climb up or fall back to another option.