They’d be able to stick these highlights in Oklahoma’s craw forever more!

(07-28-2021 08:57 AM)NeighSayer Wrote:  They’d be able to stick these highlights in Oklahoma’s craw forever more!

That's not enough. If Boise was in Colorado or NM it would be, but being over a thousand miles from the nearest team and having a limited number of non-stop flights (mainly from Denver) kinda kills their potential.

Why? So they could have a conference mate demand special treatment the moment they won and start agitating for an invite to the PAC-12. Boise’s historical behavior has made them toxic not to mention their market size is horrible.

Now compare with potential adds both directions
Houston - 2nd Texas 25M DMA = 8 /2.33M (Shared x2- Houston)
UCF - 4th Florida 18.8M DMA = 18/1.49M (Owned)
Temple - 6th Penn 12.7M. DMA = 4/2.75m (shared - Philly)
USF - 4th Florida 18.8M DMA = 12/1.80M (shared - Tampa)
Memphis -17th Tenn 6.34M DMA = 51/619K (Owned)
Colorado St 22nd Colorado 5.02M DMA = 17/1.53M (Shared x2 - Denver)
SDSU 1st California 37.2M DMA = 27/1.13M (Owned)
Fresno State 1st CA 37.2M. DMA = 55/607K (Owned exclusive)
Boise State 39th ID 1.9M. DMA = 102/311K (Owned exclusive)

(07-28-2021 10:09 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  Why? So they could have a conference mate demand special treatment the moment they won and start agitating for an invite to the PAC-12. Boise’s historical behavior has made them toxic not to mention their market size is horrible.

Now compare with potential adds both directions
Houston - 2nd Texas 25M DMA = 8 /2.33M (Shared x2- Houston)
UCF - 4th Florida 18.8M DMA = 18/1.49M (Owned)
Temple - 6th Penn 12.7M. DMA = 4/2.75m (shared - Philly)
USF - 4th Florida 18.8M DMA = 12/1.80M (shared - Tampa)
Memphis -17th Tenn 6.34M DMA = 51/619K (Owned)
Colorado St 22nd Colorado 5.02M DMA = 17/1.53M (Shared x2 - Denver)
SDSU 1st California 37.2M DMA = 27/1.13M (Owned)
Fresno State 1st CA 37.2M. DMA = 55/607K (Owned exclusive)
Boise State 39th ID 1.9M. DMA = 102/311K (Owned exclusive)

Boise St screwed over the BE/AAC and San Diego State. They thought they were getting a favored dream deal out of the MWC. Then they watched as the AAC put a stranglehold on the access bowl and got a media contract that pays multiples of what they get. Boise has been trying to pimp themselves to the AAC ever since we dropped to 11 teams, with no luck. They bring no eyeballs, and they cause trouble. And some members havent forgiven them for what they did.

Boise isn’t the shining star it used to be. The pool of BYU, Cincy, Houston, UCF, USF, and Memphis make for a better candidate pool.

With that logic Appy State should be the flagship of the B10 then.

Boisie to Lubbock TX 1258 miles
Boise to Manhattan KS 1297 miles
Boise to Lawrence KS 1369 miles
Boise to Ames IA 1397 miles
Boise to Stillwater OK 1448 miles
Boise to Fort Worth TX 1562 miles
Boise to Waco TX 1602 miles
Boise to Morgantown WV 2208 miles

And I thought WVU was a bad fit for the B12 with Iowa State being the closet school at 878 miles.

Big 12 won’t take them unless they change the field to green.

(07-28-2021 10:09 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  Why? So they could have a conference mate demand special treatment the moment they won and start agitating for an invite to the PAC-12. Boise’s historical behavior has made them toxic not to mention their market size is horrible.

Now compare with potential adds both directions
Houston - 2nd Texas 25M DMA = 8 /2.33M (Shared x2- Houston)
UCF - 4th Florida 18.8M DMA = 18/1.49M (Owned)
Temple - 6th Penn 12.7M. DMA = 4/2.75m (shared - Philly)
USF - 4th Florida 18.8M DMA = 12/1.80M (shared - Tampa)
Memphis -17th Tenn 6.34M DMA = 51/619K (Owned)
Colorado St 22nd Colorado 5.02M DMA = 17/1.53M (Shared x2 - Denver)
SDSU 1st California 37.2M DMA = 27/1.13M (Owned)
Fresno State 1st CA 37.2M. DMA = 55/607K (Owned exclusive)
Boise State 39th ID 1.9M. DMA = 102/311K (Owned exclusive)

Boise State is not going to the Big 12, but the use of market size is a poor marker for the actual value Boise State brings. Who are casual college football fans in Dallas, Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Chicago more likely to watch?

Boise State versus TCU or Temple versus TCU?
Boise State versus West Virginia or Colorado State versus West Virginia?
Boise State versus Baylor or SDSU versus Baylor?

One symbolic thing they could do, besides fix the field's color, is to merge with Idaho and adopt that name. With Idaho being a previous member of the PAC, the PAC-12 could be a bit more interested. However, the new-new Big XII (NNBT) would definitely talk with them, and the NNBT likely would not have a GoR after 2025 -- anyone could move up if/when called.

Also the name-upgrade makes it more attractive if the B1G takes 6 or so AAUs from the PAC-12; remnants of the PAC, and newIdaho join the NNBT to form a pacific/mountain division. Maybe Hawaii and UNLV, in addition to BYU, would be good adds to that division.

(07-28-2021 11:02 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  One symbolic thing they could do, besides fix the field's color, is to merge with Idaho and adopt that name. With Idaho being a previous member of the PAC, the PAC-12 could be a bit more interested. However, the new-new Big XII (NNBT) would definitely talk with them, and the NNBT likely would not have a GoR after 2025 -- anyone could move up if/when called.

Also the name-upgrade makes it more attractive if the B1G takes 6 or so AAUs from the PAC-12; remnants of the PAC, and newIdaho join the NNBT to form a pacific/mountain division. Maybe Hawaii and UNLV, in addition to BYU, would be good adds to that division.

Im sure the University of Idaho, the flagship and land grant university in Idaho has no interest in a former Juco that just become an R2 in 2019. The endowment and research money UI gets dwarfs what Boise gets.

No no no..


1) Travel - it's not just too far (further than WV), there are no direct flights - so it's pain in the ass travel - its very different flying to Dallas to play TCU vs flying to whatever airport (probably Denver) you have to go through to then get on a plane to Boise.

2) Academics - when do academics matter? When the school in question, Boise St, is not that far removed from being a community college. Other B12 schools that have, you know, admission standards don't want to recruit against that. Yes, there is a stereotype that athletes take bull**** classes (see UNC), but at a place like Boise St, there are a lot of bull**** classes. Teams do not want to recruit against that. Once of the pluses of BYU is typical college players don't want to go there because of their moral behavioral standards. SO B12 coaches are like, sure, bring BYU in here.

3) Endowment - the endowment at Boise St is far far below Power 5 standards.

If you think you want to be out west, maybe to appease BYU with a travel partner, Colorado State gets you B12 level academics, B12 level endowment and facilities, and much much more reasonable travel. CSU comes into B12 before Boise ever would.
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(07-28-2021 11:50 AM)jgkojak Wrote:  3) Endowment - the endowment at Boise St is far far below Power 5 standards.

If you think you want to be out west, maybe to appease BYU with a travel partner, Colorado State gets you B12 level academics, B12 level endowment and facilities, and much much more reasonable travel. CSU comes into B12 before Boise ever would.
[/align]

Colorado State Endowment 519 million
Boise State Endowment 112 million

Colorado State is ranked as an R1
Boise State is ranked as an R2

Hope y’all realize my original post was mostly in fun, as it is a source of much joy to hold that seminal moment in college football history over the head of the Sooners. Had I been attempting to make a serious argument for Boise State’s inclusion to the Big 12, I would have listed our nation-leading accomplishments on the gridiron, Idaho’s standing as one of the fastest growing states in the country, and the university’s meteoric rise from a junior college in the mid-1960s to a commuter school until the late 2000s, to the most prominent institution of higher learning in the state of Idaho today. With that trajectory, it’s not difficult to project Boise State University as a very well-regarded school in the coming decades. Maybe it’s not so outlandish to consider BSU’s inclusion based on manifest destiny after all… But that’s asking some posters (and university presidents? ) not to be short-sighted.

(07-28-2021 07:04 PM)NeighSayer Wrote:  Hope y’all realize my original post was mostly in fun, as it is a source of much joy to hold that seminal moment in college football history over the head of the Sooners. Had I been attempting to make a serious argument for Boise State’s inclusion to the Big 12, I would have listed our nation-leading accomplishments on the gridiron, Idaho’s standing as one of the fastest growing states in the country, and the university’s meteoric rise from a junior college in the mid-1960s to a commuter school until the late 2000s, to the most prominent institution of higher learning in the state of Idaho today. With that trajectory, it’s not difficult to project Boise State University as a very well-regarded school in the coming decades. Maybe it’s not so outlandish to consider BSU’s inclusion based on manifest destiny after all… But that’s asking some posters (and university presidents? ) not to be short-sighted.

Nah, I get it. Just hitting a little flat atm.

(07-28-2021 11:00 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 10:09 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  Why? So they could have a conference mate demand special treatment the moment they won and start agitating for an invite to the PAC-12. Boise’s historical behavior has made them toxic not to mention their market size is horrible.

Now compare with potential adds both directions
Houston - 2nd Texas 25M DMA = 8 /2.33M (Shared x2- Houston)
UCF - 4th Florida 18.8M DMA = 18/1.49M (Owned)
Temple - 6th Penn 12.7M. DMA = 4/2.75m (shared - Philly)
USF - 4th Florida 18.8M DMA = 12/1.80M (shared - Tampa)
Memphis -17th Tenn 6.34M DMA = 51/619K (Owned)
Colorado St 22nd Colorado 5.02M DMA = 17/1.53M (Shared x2 - Denver)
SDSU 1st California 37.2M DMA = 27/1.13M (Owned)
Fresno State 1st CA 37.2M. DMA = 55/607K (Owned exclusive)
Boise State 39th ID 1.9M. DMA = 102/311K (Owned exclusive)

Boise State is not going to the Big 12, but the use of market size is a poor marker for the actual value Boise State brings. Who are casual college football fans in Dallas, Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Chicago more likely to watch?

Boise State versus TCU or Temple versus TCU?
Boise State versus West Virginia or Colorado State versus West Virginia?
Boise State versus Baylor or SDSU versus Baylor?

This. A BYU/Boise State add to the Big 12 would give the conference some juice with the TV networks…nowhere near the current UT/OU combo, but they are names that might intrigue the Big 12 leftovers…those are nationally respected programs.

I always thought the XII should have gone west with BYU instead of going east with WVU.

1) Only 1 P5 out west to compete with.
2) Potential of getting more land grants going west like Colorado St.
3) Build a bridge to Boise St by taking programs west.

To prevent an exodus to the AAC the XII could vote in BYU and Colorado St. That would keep up the power conference image of the XII. Stay at 10 for the time being to keep the per school valuation high.

Then if WVU leaves to the ACC invite in Boise State. Create a whole western division if they want.

I: Colorado St, New Mexico, BYU, Boise St, UNLV, SDSU, Hawaii
II: Iowa St, K-State, Kansas, Oklahoma St, TCU, Tech, Baylor

Say Kansas gets a placement in the B1G then you can go to a straight 12.

I: Colorado St, New Mexico, BYU, Boise St, UNLV, SDSU
II: Iowa St, K-State, Oklahoma St, TCU, Tech, Baylor

(07-28-2021 12:24 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 11:50 AM)jgkojak Wrote:  3) Endowment - the endowment at Boise St is far far below Power 5 standards.

If you think you want to be out west, maybe to appease BYU with a travel partner, Colorado State gets you B12 level academics, B12 level endowment and facilities, and much much more reasonable travel. CSU comes into B12 before Boise ever would.
[/align]

Colorado State Endowment 519 million
Boise State Endowment 112 million

Colorado State is ranked as an R1
Boise State is ranked as an R2

Population of US States

Colorado 5,758,736
Idaho 1,787,065

I think if you are the XII you start with Col St/BYU to keep as much of the little together (some things like WVU to ACC or KU to B1G make too much sense). Then when the GoR is up go full out Frankenconference and raid the AAC/MWC to get to 16.

In my order:

1.BYU
2. Houston
3. Cincinnati
4. Memphis
should all get a call before Boise State. Why? As of 2021 Boise is the #101 TV market with only a lil over 300K watching TV.

Houston is #8 at 2.5M viewers
Cincinnati #36 at 925K viewers
Memphis is #51 at 619K viewers

(One could also make the case for UCF, however the BIG12 would have to show serious interest in traveling to Florida in all sports outside of Football. The expense may outweigh the TV market.)

So why is BYU #1 on my list....Becuase Big 12 officials have stated that they will consider fan base size as part of the criteria when examining potential expansion candidates. BYU has ranked among the top 30 nationally in football attendance nine times in 10 years, according to the NCAA. The Cougars have finished in the top 20 in attendance in men's basketball for six consecutive seasons. No other Big 12 expansion candidate can come close to those achievements.

BYU’s LaVell Edwards Stadium has a capacity of 63,470, and the Cougars have averaged 59,951 fans per game since the 2010 season. Those figures put BYU No. 3 among Big 12 member schools, only behind Texas (100,119 and 97,529, respectively) and Oklahoma (82,112 and 85,064, respectively).

Big 12 expansion candidate Memphis plays at the 61,008-seat Liberty Bowl and seen a big jump in attendance before COVID drawing 43,802 fans per game.

Seating capacity at other expansion hopefuls: Boise State (37,000), Cincinnati (40,000), Central Florida (44,206), Colorado State (34,400), Connecticut (40,642) and Houston (40,000).

BYU’s Marriott Center (19,100) is larger than any arena in the Big 12, ahead of Texas (16,540) and Kansas (16,300). Over the past six seasons (before COVID), BYU averaged 16,137 fans per men’s basketball game, slightly behind Kansas (16,429) and ahead of the rest of the Big 12, including Iowa State (13,585) and Texas (11,805).

BYU also has a reputation for drawing large crowds for road games throughout the country. BYU’s fan base size in 2011, was 710,000.( probably has grown) While not a scientific poll, an online survey — the Commoncensus Sports Map Project — reported in 2012 that BYU was the most popular college team in Utah with 28,419 votes. According to the survey, the Cougars were also the No. 2 most popular team in Tempe, Arizona; No. 3 in Tucson, Arizona; No. 3 in the Pacific Northwest; No. 4 in Los Angeles; No. 5 in Dallas-Fort Worth; No. 5 in San Diego; No. 6 in the Bay Area; and No. 9 in Houston.

Also Chip Patterson of CBS Sports covered the BYU angle from Iowa State President Steven Leath's meeting with Iowa State Daily streamed on Facebook Live in 2016. Patterson quotes Leath as saying, "It's a school of integrity. They play by the rules, quality program, and people that have been there had great experiences and we should consider BYU."

IMHO it comes down to the next TV deal(2026 and beyond), does adding 2, 4 or 6 help with the most with next TV contract! I think that is what the BIG12 has to decide especially if the BIG and ACC do not want to expand.

(07-29-2021 09:30 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  BYU’s LaVell Edwards Stadium has a capacity of 63,470, and the Cougars have averaged 59,951 fans per game since the 2010 season. Those figures put BYU No. 3 among Big 12 member schools, only behind Texas (100,119 and 97,529, respectively) and Oklahoma (82,112 and 85,064, respectively).

Big 12 expansion candidate Memphis plays at the 61,008-seat Liberty Bowl and seen a big jump in attendance before COVID drawing 43,802 fans per game.

Seating capacity at other expansion hopefuls: Boise State (37,000), Cincinnati (40,000), Central Florida (44,206), Colorado State (34,400), Connecticut (40,642) and Houston (40,000).

I think the LINC is also >65K.
Attendance though is more like 25K when taking out the Penn State game. Maybe opponents like WVU and OK State will boost those numbers to sub-40K levels (ie. equivalent to other candidates)??