(07-28-2021 05:06 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 04:45 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 02:28 PM)nole Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 11:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  *courts become involved because of an unfair playing field between state (government) institutions.

Why do people keep forgetting the Mountain West knocking down the BCS door? Ultimately, these are government institutions we’re talking about here. You may not be able to keep one school from joining another conference, but you start treading in lawsuit territory when some states are left out.

I don't think ESPN/SEC is worried one bit.

Ever heard of the Bell System?

Ever heard of the free market? The courts just ruled on NIL, already granted stipends, are likely to lift caps on stipends and all in the name of the free market. I suspect Texas and Oklahoma will be seen as independent agents who now forced to pay for the same have every right to earn more. I think GOR's may get ruled on and struck down in the process as they were intended for professional entertainers, not state owned tax payer funded institutions. Their application in this realm was unprecedented prior to the BTN and only about 20 years old and unchallenged.

So we'll see.

Markets are free until they aren’t. That was my point. With the added complication we’re talking about government institutions here.

Suppose it depends on which way you think the government is trending. But that’s a topic for another day.

(07-27-2021 07:35 PM)knightmite Wrote:  

(07-25-2021 12:00 PM)tj_2009 Wrote:  

(07-25-2021 07:46 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-24-2021 03:39 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(07-24-2021 03:27 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Oh how cute.

Care to engage in any real debate?

If you actually believe that adding Cincinnati will weaken OSU....well bless your heart.

What planet were you on in 2009?

There was one Ohio team that was ranked third in the final BCS standings and was one second added on to the B12 championship game so that Texas could win from being in the BCS championship.

I'll give you a hint, it wasn't Ohio State.

Right now in the lowly AAC we were one botched play on a 3rd and 2 from beating freaking Georgia in the Peach Bowl, so yeah, given a better opportunity we would start cutting into O$U's peace of the pie immediately.

Don't let any of these facts deter your thinking, though.

i would not discount Cincinnati without doing more research on the basketball / internet streaming angle. Currently, college football drives the bus in terms of revenue. That is because cable networks were limited to the United States but with the advent of IP networks and internet streaming (Netflix, Apple, Amazon, Disney, Peacock (NBC), Paramount+ (CBS) the world is your possible audience. Basketball is number 2 in the world in popularity so the question would be whether there is an audience around the world that would be willing to watch the best college basketball league in the US. I think it will work but there would be a short term hit to ACC revenues if Kansas and one other school got invited but long term the ACC has a possibility of exceeding even the SEC and B1G because they would have limited world wide audience for their brand of basketball and there is no market for college football outside of the US (other than perhaps Canada). It would be a risk for the ACC management team and it is one of those decisions that could get them fired. I think it is worth the risk and sometimes you have to think big and take risks. For example Elon Musk with Tesla, he saw that electric cars were a solution to the global warming crisis and he acted while other more established companies like GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Honda, sat back and he gained first mover advantage, so a decent market share and huge valuations in the company. He is also the 2nd richest person in the world. Same thing with Amazon, creating an online shopping company and cloud company that are the world market leaders. By the way Jeff Bezos the founder of Amazon is the richest person in the world. Perhaps I am more attentive of stuff like this because, I follow all the stuff on Wall Street and the financial markets. The conclusion is that great companies take calculated risks and look to the future to plan their next moves. Harvard Business does case studies on companies that were successful and not successful and these case studies are used throughout universities around the world. Hopefully the ACC management are not people living in the past and are looking out for the ACC and not just check cashers.

Welcome to the world of unchecked capitalism where the rich get richer and eventually there will only be one corporation. Amazon. And there will be only one football conference...Amazon Athletic Conference.

Sad but true. Things are getting out of hand in college athletic conferences with the SEC and maybe the B1G as the only survivors.

(07-28-2021 04:45 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 02:28 PM)nole Wrote:  

(07-28-2021 11:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  *courts become involved because of an unfair playing field between state (government) institutions.

Why do people keep forgetting the Mountain West knocking down the BCS door? Ultimately, these are government institutions we’re talking about here. You may not be able to keep one school from joining another conference, but you start treading in lawsuit territory when some states are left out.

I don't think ESPN/SEC is worried one bit.

Ever heard of the Bell System?

Yeah, they were allegedly trust busted several decades ago. Only they wrote a big check to Bill Clinton who then let Ma Bell reform like T2 in exchange for "nationwide broadband in 10 years." Ma Bell is back and stronger and nastier than ever. Broadband is still decidedly not nationwide approaching 30 years later.

The ACC needs to acknowledge that FB is driving the bus and all member schools are expected to invest accordingly. That level of investment needs to be a precondition to any expansion candidates. There is nobody coming to rescue us. This needs to happen organically.

(07-30-2021 10:02 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  The ACC needs to acknowledge that FB is driving the bus and all member schools are expected to invest accordingly. That level of investment needs to be a precondition to any expansion candidates. There is nobody coming to rescue us. This needs to happen organically.

Basically too late now.

And what's going to make these basketball schools want to do that? Nothing.

If the ACC were serious, and it's not, it would incentivize football success.

It is why the conference won't last.

(07-30-2021 10:02 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  The ACC needs to acknowledge that FB is driving the bus and all member schools are expected to invest accordingly. That level of investment needs to be a precondition to any expansion candidates. There is nobody coming to rescue us. This needs to happen organically.

Does anybody remember a company called Kodak? They were a company that used to dominate the photography industry when film was used for cameras. The problem for them was that they never saw digital cameras coming and they refused to acknowledge that digital cameras were going to be the future. Kodak by the way never did adequately develop digital cameras and are just hanging on.
The reason why i tell this story is because when you are in business (and the ACC is in the business of college sports), you have to be aware of the future and what was successful, may not be the recipe for success in the future.
Most people who don't follow cable companies earnings don't realize that they are losing subscribers because of cord cutting. The current model of cable contracts for college football was based on cable subscriptions but the market for that is decreasing. That model is undergoing some changes as there are less people subscribing to cable. What seems to be the trend is that people are reducing their cable packages (or cutting them off) and supplementing this with with Internet Protocol streaming (i.e. - Netflix, Disney, Amazon, Apple, Peacock (NBC), Paramount + (CBS), Youtube TV (google), Warner Brothers Discovery. These companies are raking in a worldwide audience for their streaming services and making big $$$. All of this move to IP streaming is leading to more importance for branding. The ACC either has to invest in the IP Streaming technology to sell their product worldwide or make a deal with the existing IP streaming giants. People discount basketball as a money maker because that has historically not been the most valuable commodity in the US. College football has been the king in the US. Basketball is the 2nd most popular sport in the world, and there is no market for college football outside the US. The ACC just happens to have the best college basketball league in the US. The ACC could capitalize on the popularity of basketball outside the US by using IP streaming technology and selling its product worldwide. The ACC needs to offer Kansas (Basketball blue blood and they don't become available often) and build the ACC basketball brand. The entire world is your possible customer in IP streaming and basketball is extremely popular around the world. The ACC could leverage basketball and sell it to the world so the probability of exceeding earnings over college football are extremely good. The ACC just needs to recognize this and plan for this. Sure there will be a dip in revenues in the short term while the technology is being developed, but long term the future revenues could be really high.

(07-30-2021 11:30 PM)tj_2009 Wrote:  

(07-30-2021 10:02 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  The ACC needs to acknowledge that FB is driving the bus and all member schools are expected to invest accordingly. That level of investment needs to be a precondition to any expansion candidates. There is nobody coming to rescue us. This needs to happen organically.

Does anybody remember a company called Kodak? They were a company that used to dominate the photography industry when film was used for cameras. The problem for them was that they never saw digital cameras coming and they refused to acknowledge that digital cameras were going to be the future. Kodak by the way never did adequately develop digital cameras and are just hanging on.
The reason why i tell this story is because when you are in business (and the ACC is in the business of college sports), you have to be aware of the future and what was successful, may not be the recipe for success in the future.
Most people who don't follow cable companies earnings don't realize that they are losing subscribers because of cord cutting. The current model of cable contracts for college football was based on cable subscriptions but the market for that is decreasing. That model is undergoing some changes as there are less people subscribing to cable. What seems to be the trend is that people are reducing their cable packages (or cutting them off) and supplementing this with with Internet Protocol streaming (i.e. - Netflix, Disney, Amazon, Apple, Peacock (NBC), Paramount + (CBS), Youtube TV (google), Warner Brothers Discovery. These companies are raking in a worldwide audience for their streaming services and making big $$$. All of this move to IP streaming is leading to more importance for branding. The ACC either has to invest in the IP Streaming technology to sell their product worldwide or make a deal with the existing IP streaming giants. People discount basketball as a money maker because that has historically not been the most valuable commodity in the US. College football has been the king in the US. Basketball is the 2nd most popular sport in the world, and there is no market for college football outside the US. The ACC just happens to have the best college basketball league in the US. The ACC could capitalize on the popularity of basketball outside the US by using IP streaming technology and selling its product worldwide. The ACC needs to offer Kansas (Basketball blue blood and they don't become available often) and build the ACC basketball brand. The entire world is your possible customer in IP streaming and basketball is extremely popular around the world. The ACC could leverage basketball and sell it to the world so the probability of exceeding earnings over college football are extremely good. The ACC just needs to recognize this and plan for this. Sure there will be a dip in revenues in the short term while the technology is being developed, but long term the future revenues could be really high.

I haven’t thought about that. But it’s true that quite a few people in Asia (especially in China) watch the NBA games and hardly no one watches the NFL.

I would say the March Madness got some potential in overseas market. But yeah it may take decades.

(07-30-2021 10:02 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  The ACC needs to acknowledge that FB is driving the bus and all member schools are expected to invest accordingly. That level of investment needs to be a precondition to any expansion candidates. There is nobody coming to rescue us. This needs to happen organically.

Have you seen NIL and Miami?

HURRICANE WARNING

(07-31-2021 12:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-30-2021 10:02 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  The ACC needs to acknowledge that FB is driving the bus and all member schools are expected to invest accordingly. That level of investment needs to be a precondition to any expansion candidates. There is nobody coming to rescue us. This needs to happen organically.

Have you seen NIL and Miami?

HURRICANE WARNING

They've been unofficially NIL-ing for years.

Nothing will change for them.

(07-31-2021 07:24 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 12:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-30-2021 10:02 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  The ACC needs to acknowledge that FB is driving the bus and all member schools are expected to invest accordingly. That level of investment needs to be a precondition to any expansion candidates. There is nobody coming to rescue us. This needs to happen organically.

Have you seen NIL and Miami?

HURRICANE WARNING

They've been unofficially NIL-ing for years.

Nothing will change for them.

Wanna bet?

(07-30-2021 11:30 PM)tj_2009 Wrote:  

(07-30-2021 10:02 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  The ACC needs to acknowledge that FB is driving the bus and all member schools are expected to invest accordingly. That level of investment needs to be a precondition to any expansion candidates. There is nobody coming to rescue us. This needs to happen organically.

Does anybody remember a company called Kodak? They were a company that used to dominate the photography industry when film was used for cameras. The problem for them was that they never saw digital cameras coming and they refused to acknowledge that digital cameras were going to be the future. Kodak by the way never did adequately develop digital cameras and are just hanging on.
The reason why i tell this story is because when you are in business (and the ACC is in the business of college sports), you have to be aware of the future and what was successful, may not be the recipe for success in the future.
Most people who don't follow cable companies earnings don't realize that they are losing subscribers because of cord cutting. The current model of cable contracts for college football was based on cable subscriptions but the market for that is decreasing. That model is undergoing some changes as there are less people subscribing to cable. What seems to be the trend is that people are reducing their cable packages (or cutting them off) and supplementing this with with Internet Protocol streaming (i.e. - Netflix, Disney, Amazon, Apple, Peacock (NBC), Paramount + (CBS), Youtube TV (google), Warner Brothers Discovery. These companies are raking in a worldwide audience for their streaming services and making big $$$. All of this move to IP streaming is leading to more importance for branding. The ACC either has to invest in the IP Streaming technology to sell their product worldwide or make a deal with the existing IP streaming giants. People discount basketball as a money maker because that has historically not been the most valuable commodity in the US. College football has been the king in the US. Basketball is the 2nd most popular sport in the world, and there is no market for college football outside the US. The ACC just happens to have the best college basketball league in the US. The ACC could capitalize on the popularity of basketball outside the US by using IP streaming technology and selling its product worldwide. The ACC needs to offer Kansas (Basketball blue blood and they don't become available often) and build the ACC basketball brand. The entire world is your possible customer in IP streaming and basketball is extremely popular around the world. The ACC could leverage basketball and sell it to the world so the probability of exceeding earnings over college football are extremely good. The ACC just needs to recognize this and plan for this. Sure there will be a dip in revenues in the short term while the technology is being developed, but long term the future revenues could be really high.

Your point is still valid, but Kodak did not jump into digital photography because it was making a ton of money making film. They judged that digital photography couldn't replace that revenue stream. They were right, but they lost both the revenue from film production and they lost market share in the photography market.

(07-31-2021 09:10 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 07:24 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 12:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-30-2021 10:02 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  The ACC needs to acknowledge that FB is driving the bus and all member schools are expected to invest accordingly. That level of investment needs to be a precondition to any expansion candidates. There is nobody coming to rescue us. This needs to happen organically.

Have you seen NIL and Miami?

HURRICANE WARNING

They've been unofficially NIL-ing for years.

Nothing will change for them.

Wanna bet?

Surely NIL will make all the difference in assuring that they won't ever get shut out by LA Tech again.

And yeah, those SEC teams will have no idea how to use that NIL thing to their advantage. Only Miami.

(07-31-2021 09:41 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 09:10 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 07:24 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 12:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-30-2021 10:02 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  The ACC needs to acknowledge that FB is driving the bus and all member schools are expected to invest accordingly. That level of investment needs to be a precondition to any expansion candidates. There is nobody coming to rescue us. This needs to happen organically.

Have you seen NIL and Miami?

HURRICANE WARNING

They've been unofficially NIL-ing for years.

Nothing will change for them.

Wanna bet?

Surely NIL will make all the difference in assuring that they won't ever get shut out by LA Tech again.

And yeah, those SEC teams will have no idea how to use that NIL thing to their advantage. Only Miami.

Miami is best served when they can get all the best talent within 50 miles of campus. I don't think NIL helps that effort. Miami has always been notoriously underfunded for how successful they have been. With 5 National titles in the last 40 years, they should be a $150 mil a year athletics department. But as it stands they are still funded by the $190 season ticket package. Which is vastly improved because when Richt started there, their season tickets were $120.

I think the schools that have the best chance to improve are the non-elite schools that have a lot of money. In the ACC that's Louisville and Syracuse. I've always criticized Cuse for being cheap with their coaches to which fans on here say that's only part of their compensation; they have a lot of endorsements too. Well we're about to find how strong those endorsement fund channels are.

I don't think it would take too much of a talent influx for Cuse to improve dramatically and I think Babers is the guy to do it. If they can get a couple of good 3 or 4-star QBs and some depth along the offensive and defensive line they'd be much improved.

Louisville was always going to be successful eventually because not only do they have a lot of money, they have no trouble shelling it out for good coaches and doing what it takes to attract talented recruits. I think NIL accelerates their time table to being elite.

I'm not so sure about VT. Our basketball guard Tyrece Radford, who is the key to our season next year, entered the portal on the last day eligible. Word is that he wants some NIL money because his family is in bad shape. It's been 4-6 weeks now and I haven't heard of any NIL money for him to stay in Blacksburg. That does not give me hope for how well VT is going to navigate the new NIL world.

Cincy is probably in a good situation too. It's got to help to be in the middle of a big city. 10,000s of opportunities for potential endorsements.

(07-31-2021 09:41 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 09:10 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 07:24 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 12:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-30-2021 10:02 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  The ACC needs to acknowledge that FB is driving the bus and all member schools are expected to invest accordingly. That level of investment needs to be a precondition to any expansion candidates. There is nobody coming to rescue us. This needs to happen organically.

Have you seen NIL and Miami?

HURRICANE WARNING

They've been unofficially NIL-ing for years.

Nothing will change for them.

Wanna bet?

Surely NIL will make all the difference in assuring that they won't ever get shut out by LA Tech again.

Correct.

(07-31-2021 09:41 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  And yeah, those SEC teams will have no idea how to use that NIL thing to their advantage. Only Miami.

Who is talking about the SEC? You aren’t paying attention. Miami is one of the elite brands in college football. Now the cuffs are off.

And I’ll take that as a “no” you don’t want to bet.

(07-31-2021 10:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 09:41 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 09:10 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 07:24 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 12:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  Have you seen NIL and Miami?

HURRICANE WARNING

They've been unofficially NIL-ing for years.

Nothing will change for them.

Wanna bet?

Surely NIL will make all the difference in assuring that they won't ever get shut out by LA Tech again.

Correct.

(07-31-2021 09:41 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  And yeah, those SEC teams will have no idea how to use that NIL thing to their advantage. Only Miami.

Who is talking about the SEC? You aren’t paying attention. Miami is one of the elite brands in college football. Now the cuffs are off.

And I’ll take that as a “no” you don’t want to bet.

Well I was just wondering where the elite brand has been for the past 20 years and how NIL is suddenly going to change that. It's not like they have a one up on everybody else.

And how does this bet work? If Miami's in the CFP next year you win? If not, I win? Yeah, I'll take that bet.

(07-31-2021 12:10 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 10:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 09:41 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 09:10 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 07:24 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  They've been unofficially NIL-ing for years.

Nothing will change for them.

Wanna bet?

Surely NIL will make all the difference in assuring that they won't ever get shut out by LA Tech again.

Correct.

(07-31-2021 09:41 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  And yeah, those SEC teams will have no idea how to use that NIL thing to their advantage. Only Miami.

Who is talking about the SEC? You aren’t paying attention. Miami is one of the elite brands in college football. Now the cuffs are off.

And I’ll take that as a “no” you don’t want to bet.

Well I was just wondering where the elite brand has been for the past 20 years and how NIL is suddenly going to change that. It's not like they have a one up on everybody else.

And how does this bet work? If Miami's in the CFP next year you win? If not, I win? Yeah, I'll take that bet.

Esayem maybe on to something regarding Miami. When Miami was able to keep most of the talent thats in their backyard on campus, they were doing a lot of cheating, including paying players under the table along with other illegal benefits. Now that a lot of things that they were doing they can do legally with the NIL. Sure other programs have the same advantage. But this is Miami we are talking about and no other area in the US produces as much talent as Miami Metro area. There are a lot of celebrity athletes with ties to Miami who will be willing to make some "endorsements" to keep kids at the U. Theres nothing like the swagger of being a hotshot in your own home town and playing in front of loved ones and haters alike and being treated like a king, vs playing in another area of the country where you may still be noticeable, but its not Miami.

(07-31-2021 02:39 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 12:10 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 10:52 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 09:41 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(07-31-2021 09:10 AM)esayem Wrote:  Wanna bet?

Surely NIL will make all the difference in assuring that they won't ever get shut out by LA Tech again.

Correct.

(07-31-2021 09:41 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  And yeah, those SEC teams will have no idea how to use that NIL thing to their advantage. Only Miami.

Who is talking about the SEC? You aren’t paying attention. Miami is one of the elite brands in college football. Now the cuffs are off.

And I’ll take that as a “no” you don’t want to bet.

Well I was just wondering where the elite brand has been for the past 20 years and how NIL is suddenly going to change that. It's not like they have a one up on everybody else.

And how does this bet work? If Miami's in the CFP next year you win? If not, I win? Yeah, I'll take that bet.

Esayem maybe on to something regarding Miami. When Miami was able to keep most of the talent thats in their backyard on campus, they were doing a lot of cheating, including paying players under the table along with other illegal benefits. Now that a lot of things that they were doing they can do legally with the NIL. Sure other programs have the same advantage. But this is Miami we are talking about and no other area in the US produces as much talent as Miami Metro area. There are a lot of celebrity athletes with ties to Miami who will be willing to make some "endorsements" to keep kids at the U. Theres nothing like the swagger of being a hotshot in your own home town and playing in front of loved ones and haters alike and being treated like a king, vs playing in another area of the country where you may still be noticeable, but its not Miami.

Exactly. Miami went “straight” once they joined the ACC and they couldn’t keep up. With NIL they are poised to be the minor-league NFL factory more so than campus in Starkville.

If the ACC wants to add revenue, team quality doesn't matter, TV viewers do. Do you think the B1G added Rutgers because of their football program?

According to the Nielson DMA 2020 rankings, the best new markets are:

5 Dallas-Ft. Worth (SMU)
8 Houston (Houston)
12 Tampa (USF)
18 Orlando (UCF)
37 Cincinnati (UC)
51 Memphis

If you think Florida is covered, that leaves invitations to SMU, Houston, Cincinnati and Memphis. Again, the ONLY thing that matters is TV dollars, NOT the "quality" of the football program.

(07-24-2021 08:19 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The ACC is in a tough spot[...] UVa, UNC, Duke, Clemson, Florida State and Georgia Tech won’t sit by and watch The SEC and The Big Ten make $40 million a year more.

The truth is, if The ACC doesn’t expand, and I don’t expect them to, we’ll all just be waiting for the conference to be torn apart in a few years.

I agree, though it's possible the ACC could come to more civilised end. Members could simply make their arrangements and vote to dissolve the league. The possibility is covered in the ACC charter, I'm sure, with instructions about where assets go.

We're entering a post-NCAA landscape. A conference will bid to become a full-blown athletic association like the NCAA with conferences of its own, or it will see its members absorbed into one that can.

An ACC/PAC merger gives the ACC its best shot at being in the first group. Three big post-NCAA entities result, one of which the ACC takes the lead in forming.

Anything else puts it in the second group. Members are folded into the new P2 (or P1).

How did we get to this situation? The networks voted for it with their dollars. They want a P2. It's not about deserving. It's not about who beat who in the playoffs or what Swofford did or didn't do. The networks have said loudly and plainly: 'This is what we will pay for.'

And now the NCAA has collapsed. Choose your flag.

(07-31-2021 04:46 PM)mac6115cd Wrote:  If the ACC wants to add revenue, team quality doesn't matter, TV viewers do. Do you think the B1G added Rutgers because of their football program?

According to the Nielson DMA 2020 rankings, the best new markets are:

5 Dallas-Ft. Worth (SMU)
8 Houston (Houston)
12 Tampa (USF)
18 Orlando (UCF)
37 Cincinnati (UC)
51 Memphis

If you think Florida is covered, that leaves invitations to SMU, Houston, Cincinnati and Memphis. Again, the ONLY thing that matters is TV dollars, NOT the "quality" of the football program.

Kansas City is the 32 DMA and quality and Kansas Football are not words usually mentioned in the same sentence. New Orleans is 50, DC is 7 and Baltimore 26. But of course that is back to assuming a team covers just one DMA. Which they do not if they are worth a damn.