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Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #1
Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
What is your best guess on an SEC vote to admit OU/UT?

A&M, Mizzou, and Vandy are three that I am calling no or abstain. I bet their is one more out there.
07-21-2021 10:30 PM
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
Vandy wouldn't shock me as they voted against the last one, but I don't know that they have any desire to make such waves. Last time, and I'm speculating, that financial stability didn't appeal to them because they don't have any real desire to spend on sports anyway.

The others don't seem likely to me. I think A&M will abstain, but everyone else has financial motivation.
07-21-2021 10:51 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
I mentioned on the main thread that there could be other no vote based around how the divisions alignment. I don't think the MS schools or LSU want to be separated from the classic SEC. There would also be opposition from the SEC East to having Bama in the division. Expansion might be the best reason to eliminate the divisions.
07-22-2021 02:03 AM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
(07-22-2021 02:03 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I mentioned on the main thread that there could be other no vote based around how the divisions alignment. I don't think the MS schools or LSU want to be separated from the classic SEC. There would also be opposition from the SEC East to having Bama in the division. Expansion might be the best reason to eliminate the divisions.

Process. The vote that counts has already been held. Texas and OU will give notice in a few days to the Big 12. Then they will submit a formal application to the SEC. When schools request applications the SEC holds a vote to determine 3/4ths support. If they get it an application is sent. Sometimes on hot candidates we hold a vote and just send them the application. Either way the vote has already been held.

Later a roll call vote will be held. It will be unanimous with abstentions allowed, and this is conference protocol. Anyone we invite who has agreed to join is received formally with no votes against on the formal vote.

The money for them is baked into our contract. We are in the closing stage on this, not the beginning.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2021 02:14 AM by JRsec.)
07-22-2021 02:13 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
(07-22-2021 02:13 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 02:03 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I mentioned on the main thread that there could be other no vote based around how the divisions alignment. I don't think the MS schools or LSU want to be separated from the classic SEC. There would also be opposition from the SEC East to having Bama in the division. Expansion might be the best reason to eliminate the divisions.

Process. The vote that counts has already been held. Texas and OU will give notice in a few days to the Big 12. Then they will submit a formal application to the SEC. When schools request applications the SEC holds a vote to determine 3/4ths support. If they get it an application is sent. Sometimes on hot candidates we hold a vote and just send them the application. Either way the vote has already been held.

Later a roll call vote will be held. It will be unanimous with abstentions allowed, and this is conference protocol. Anyone we invite who has agreed to join is received formally with no votes against on the formal vote.

The money for them is baked into our contract. We are in the closing stage on this, not the beginning.

I was just laying out a hypothetical. I know with the way the SEC works this announcement wouldn't have been leaked unless the move was a fait accompli.
07-22-2021 03:28 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
So I still believe at this point that this is pure extortion to get what they really want which is a L10 cupcake schedule but to be paid like SEC teams for doing so. This will scare the 8 dwarves into agreeing to go back to unequal conference revenue distribution and cough up shares of their money to get UT and OU up to SEC level money.

But if it turns out this is really for real we will absolutely vote no

We know they seem like this super hot rich girl you can’t wait to marry but the herpes she brings is for life.

Don’t say we didn’t try to warn you that getting in bed with the conference killing cancer isn’t worth it! (And to whoever will post “we can control them” or “they wouldn’t do that to us!” well, the SWC and B12 said the same thing.)
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2021 11:03 AM by 10thMountain.)
07-22-2021 10:59 AM
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
(07-22-2021 10:59 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  So I still believe at this point that this is pure extortion to get what they really want which is a L10 cupcake schedule but to be paid like SEC teams for doing so. This will scare the 8 dwarves into agreeing to go back to unequal conference revenue distribution and cough up shares of their money to get UT and OU up to SEC level money.

But if it turns out this is really for real we will absolutely vote no

We know they seem like this super hot rich girl you can’t wait to marry but the herpes she brings is for life.

Don’t say we didn’t try to warn you that getting in bed with the conference killing cancer isn’t worth it! (And to whoever will post “we can control them” or “they wouldn’t do that to us!” well, the SWC and B12 said the same thing.)

I don't think anyone on this board has any misconceptions regarding UTX. In fact, the very first thing I imagine they will angle for is getting the CCG at Jerry World every third year.
07-22-2021 01:47 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
I have a bit of a different take on this. I believe each SEC member has already been polled (not the formal vote). Of course Texas A&M would be impacted moreso than others; and now is the time to express their concerns, objections, and reservations, as with others, in a serious manner. At the end of the process, I expect all members, including Texas A&M, will be politically, not emotionally, accepting in the formal vote. At that near-end point, posturing will just be deemed as negativity, and being ungracious, and resentment and unpreferred implications linger for the long term.

That said, I understand 10thMountain's points and agree Texas has a long record of being problematic in how they have, at times, treated peer conference members in the Longhorns thirst for enacting on being self-serving, and demanding their way because of holding innate and granted power.

In rolling out the red carpet for Texas, and Oklahoma, the SEC better be very savvy in the accommodations and privileges extended to these two schools, particularly Texas. Monitoring must not be a one and done approach. Of course, this all depends on the arrangement actually coming to fruition.

Texas dropping the sports series with Texas A&M after the Aggies left the B12 was petty, nasty behavior. The SEC needs to keep that in mind.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2021 04:15 PM by OdinFrigg.)
07-22-2021 04:08 PM
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
(07-22-2021 04:08 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  I have a bit of a different take on this. I believe each SEC member has already been polled (not the formal vote). Of course Texas A&M would be impacted moreso than others; and now is the time to express their concerns, objections, and reservations, as with others, in a serious manner. At the end of the process, I expect all members, including Texas A&M, will be politically, not emotionally, accepting in the formal vote. At that near-end point, posturing will just be deemed as negativity, and being ungracious, and resentment and unpreferred implications linger for the long term.

That said, I understand 10thMountain's points and agree Texas has a long record of being problematic in how they have, at times, treated peer conference members in the Longhorns thirst for enacting on being self-serving, and demanding their way because of holding innate and granted power.

In rolling out the red carpet for Texas, and Oklahoma, the SEC better be very savvy in the accommodations and privileges extended to these two schools, particularly Texas. Monitoring must not be a one and done approach. Of course, this all depends on the arrangement actually coming to fruition.

Texas dropping the sports series with Texas A&M after the Aggies left the B12 was petty, nasty behavior. The SEC needs to keep that in mind.

DeLoss was a blowhard who operated on the backroom good ole boys approach like the old Texas Oil men. Del Conte is a businessman out of the corporate boardroom variety. Good Ole Boys are dying out and they had their good points too (namely loyalty). CEO's are taking over. They will be less power politics, less arm twisting and favor calling, but they will also only be for themselves and see loyalty as a weakness.

It's a give and take. UT will be much more cordial but just as narcissistic.
07-22-2021 04:37 PM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
I assume that if there are enough "no" votes, that the company line will be "the SEC never had discussions with Texas..."

But I do wonder on both sides the issue:
1) If Texas does get in, was there any assurance to A&M that Texas wouldn't, and what does "going back on our word" mean in that case? Would A&M get any "make-right" consolation prizes?

2) If there enough "no" votes (and I am skeptical, as for instance Tennessee would enjoy both the financial benefit of the two schools coming on board and having Alabama in the East which would make the division a bit more even versus having Alabama be their crossover), what is the next step?

Is the next step inviting OK and State? I would imagine that A&M would be okay with that, even though OK does have some of the same recruiting grounds.

Or does that quash realignment for us until the ACC is open? Do we wind up with egg on our face when OK/Texas go to the Big 10? Do we look bad for turning them down or does A&M just look more powerful?

If we do turn down both OK and Texas, and not just Texas, that means the SEC is looking at ACC pieces 15 years from now. Do we have an agreement with UNC/Duke set up? Is it NC State/Virginia Tech? Or some combination of new market Virginia/North Carolina school and Clemson/Florida State or all of the above?
07-22-2021 05:31 PM
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
(07-22-2021 05:31 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  I assume that if there are enough "no" votes, that the company line will be "the SEC never had discussions with Texas..."

But I do wonder on both sides the issue:
1) If Texas does get in, was there any assurance to A&M that Texas wouldn't, and what does "going back on our word" mean in that case? Would A&M get any "make-right" consolation prizes?

2) If there enough "no" votes (and I am skeptical, as for instance Tennessee would enjoy both the financial benefit of the two schools coming on board and having Alabama in the East which would make the division a bit more even versus having Alabama be their crossover), what is the next step?

Is the next step inviting OK and State? I would imagine that A&M would be okay with that, even though OK does have some of the same recruiting grounds.

Or does that quash realignment for us until the ACC is open? Do we wind up with egg on our face when OK/Texas go to the Big 10? Do we look bad for turning them down or does A&M just look more powerful?

If we do turn down both OK and Texas, and not just Texas, that means the SEC is looking at ACC pieces 15 years from now. Do we have an agreement with UNC/Duke set up? Is it NC State/Virginia Tech? Or some combination of new market Virginia/North Carolina school and Clemson/Florida State or all of the above?

1. The SEC made no such promise. The Aggies saw it as a benefit. Stated that and it helped to consolidate the move. So no exclusion was not a promise but rather an internet fan assumption, but one I can appreciate.

Rewards:
a. It is going to cut down P status advantage in the state of Texas to 2. TCU, Baylor, and Tech just got a tougher sell in recruiting.
b. A&M picks up much larger donation games with UT and OU along with LSU and Arky.
c. If SI is to be believed A&M and all SEC schools will start getting ~ 75 million a year in media revenue when the contract starts. It will clearly be tops.

2. We wouldn't be this far along with high profile schools and with ESPN's cooperation if we couldn't guarantee the votes and in our procedures it is almost certain that voting has already occurred.

3. I doubt we add anyone else unless we have schools who choose to drop out of pay for play. Let's say Vandy leaves (hypothetical). We replace them. If we need a private school to replace Vandy for cover from Freedom of Information requests then perhaps we look at TCU. If in pay for play this no longer matters you have Kansas hanging out there with historic hoops and a much needed rival for Missouri.
07-22-2021 06:08 PM
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
(07-22-2021 10:59 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  So I still believe at this point that this is pure extortion to get what they really want which is a L10 cupcake schedule but to be paid like SEC teams for doing so. This will scare the 8 dwarves into agreeing to go back to unequal conference revenue distribution and cough up shares of their money to get UT and OU up to SEC level money.

But if it turns out this is really for real we will absolutely vote no

We know they seem like this super hot rich girl you can’t wait to marry but the herpes she brings is for life.

Don’t say we didn’t try to warn you that getting in bed with the conference killing cancer isn’t worth it! (And to whoever will post “we can control them” or “they wouldn’t do that to us!” well, the SWC and B12 said the same thing.)

These two make a living out of throwing their weight around. Everyone in the SEC will get to experience what we already know about these two. I hope not, but it's hard to change an old dog's ways.
07-22-2021 06:16 PM
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
Per Pete Thamel on Twitter, UT and OU were not part of the Big XII Conference call this evening. Junior may be right on how far this process has come along.
07-22-2021 06:26 PM
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
(07-22-2021 06:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Per Pete Thamel on Twitter, UT and OU were not part of the Big XII Conference call this evening. Junior may be right on how far this process has come along.
I'm not junior. Grow up. And I am right and have been about this eventuality since 1992. It was just a matter of the right catalyst. COVID losses, massive national debt, declining enrollment, lack of state funds, and intentional downsizing of a bloated higher ed system has led to this.

Texas maintained talks with the SEC intermittently since then until now. They knew where they would have to go in a crisis.

When giants move its because real danger is on the horizon. And it is. This is a survive and thrive move and the fact that TTU and OSU are not a part emphasizes just how much fear of the future is involved.
07-22-2021 07:33 PM
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
If the B12 is smart, they need to start now lining-up potential replacements for OU and UTx since an official announcement and departure dates could be disclosed within weeks. The B12 will still have a core of schools that are rather prominent and athletically quite decent. Either they turn proactive, or face more extractions. A couple more of them could leave regardless.

Bowlsby never brought in new members to the B12. Several years ago, he ran a public beauty contest among a dozen or so prospects rejecting them all. That was poor PR, and a rude way to disappoint so many schools. Yet, he was rewarded in the P5 for not expanding as the network wished.
It was not, though, good long-term planning.
While the B12 will be overall weaker without the two bluebloods, they could stabilize with multiple good teams. The B12 needs to be seriously talking to BYU, Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, and perhaps CSU, Air Force, USF, SMU, and Memphis.
Decide upon the best 2, 4, or even 6.
07-22-2021 08:14 PM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
(07-22-2021 08:14 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  If the B12 is smart, they need to start now lining-up potential replacements for OU and UTx since an official announcement and departure dates could be disclosed within weeks. The B12 will still have a core of schools that are rather prominent and athletically quite decent. Either they turn proactive, or face more extractions. A couple more of them could leave regardless.

Bowlsby never brought in new members to the B12. Several years ago, he ran a public beauty contest among a dozen or so prospects rejecting them all. That was poor PR, and a rude way to disappoint so many schools. Yet, he was rewarded in the P5 for not expanding as the network wished.
It was not, though, good long-term planning.
While the B12 will be overall weaker without the two bluebloods, they could stabilize with multiple good teams. The B12 needs to be seriously talking to BYU, Cincinnati, Houston, UCF, and perhaps CSU, Air Force, USF, SMU, and Memphis.
Decide upon the best 2, 4, or even 6.

Allowing more than 2 schools to go to the Big 12 means Fox/ESPN pay more for the same product that already have locked in at a lower price.

Financially, sending BYU and one other (Cincy? Houston? Colorado St?) Makes the most sense.
07-22-2021 09:38 PM
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
(07-22-2021 07:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 06:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Per Pete Thamel on Twitter, UT and OU were not part of the Big XII Conference call this evening. Junior may be right on how far this process has come along.
I'm not junior. Grow up. And I am right and have been about this eventuality since 1992. It was just a matter of the right catalyst. COVID losses, massive national debt, declining enrollment, lack of state funds, and intentional downsizing of a bloated higher ed system has led to this.

Texas maintained talks with the SEC intermittently since then until now. They knew where they would have to go in a crisis.

When giants move its because real danger is on the horizon. And it is. This is a survive and thrive move and the fact that TTU and OSU are not a part emphasizes just how much fear of the future is involved.
Sorry JR. I have been on this board 11 years and I assumed, incorrectly I guess, that JR meant "Junior". My dad was a junior and the family always called him JR. Again, my apologies... My post was merely to point out how on-point you were regarding this.
07-23-2021 05:26 PM
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
(07-23-2021 05:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 07:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 06:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Per Pete Thamel on Twitter, UT and OU were not part of the Big XII Conference call this evening. Junior may be right on how far this process has come along.
I'm not junior. Grow up. And I am right and have been about this eventuality since 1992. It was just a matter of the right catalyst. COVID losses, massive national debt, declining enrollment, lack of state funds, and intentional downsizing of a bloated higher ed system has led to this.

Texas maintained talks with the SEC intermittently since then until now. They knew where they would have to go in a crisis.

When giants move its because real danger is on the horizon. And it is. This is a survive and thrive move and the fact that TTU and OSU are not a part emphasizes just how much fear of the future is involved.
Sorry JR. I have been on this board 11 years and I assumed, incorrectly I guess, that JR meant "Junior". My dad was a junior and the family always called him JR. Again, my apologies... My post was merely to point out how on-point you were regarding this.

No problem Medic. An ACC troll likes to use that.

We are going to have to watch Vandy now. If they decide to step out we may add another. Missouri's president needs to lobby for Kansas. If the Big 10 raids the ACC we might take 4 more and stop at 20.

The money is getting huge and the tension is going to be high.

I have a feeling we'll see the SEC and Big 10 emerge supreme and a new conference formed out of the rest which pays in the 40-45 million range so that noone left behind has damage claims. And that conference would have a playoff slot and have a chance at at large spots.

This is a process coming from corporate networks who used COVID losses to accelerate their agenda.
07-23-2021 05:36 PM
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
(07-23-2021 05:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-23-2021 05:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 07:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 06:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Per Pete Thamel on Twitter, UT and OU were not part of the Big XII Conference call this evening. Junior may be right on how far this process has come along.
I'm not junior. Grow up. And I am right and have been about this eventuality since 1992. It was just a matter of the right catalyst. COVID losses, massive national debt, declining enrollment, lack of state funds, and intentional downsizing of a bloated higher ed system has led to this.

Texas maintained talks with the SEC intermittently since then until now. They knew where they would have to go in a crisis.

When giants move its because real danger is on the horizon. And it is. This is a survive and thrive move and the fact that TTU and OSU are not a part emphasizes just how much fear of the future is involved.
Sorry JR. I have been on this board 11 years and I assumed, incorrectly I guess, that JR meant "Junior". My dad was a junior and the family always called him JR. Again, my apologies... My post was merely to point out how on-point you were regarding this.

No problem Medic. An ACC troll likes to use that.

We are going to have to watch Vandy now. If they decide to step out we may add another. Missouri's president needs to lobby for Kansas. If the Big 10 raids the ACC we might take 4 more and stop at 20.

The money is getting huge and the tension is going to be high.

I have a feeling we'll see the SEC and Big 10 emerge supreme and a new conference formed out of the rest which pays in the 40-45 million range so that noone left behind has damage claims. And that conference would have a playoff slot and have a chance at at large spots.

This is a process coming from corporate networks who used COVID losses to accelerate their agenda.
Now that you mention it, I remember that troll. Kansas would be a welcome addition to the SEC. It would benefit their football program, and add to SEC BB. They could also get over the pain of being left by the Tigers. lol
07-23-2021 05:44 PM
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RE: Best Guess On "No" Votes For UT/OU
(07-23-2021 05:44 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(07-23-2021 05:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-23-2021 05:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 07:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 06:26 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Per Pete Thamel on Twitter, UT and OU were not part of the Big XII Conference call this evening. Junior may be right on how far this process has come along.
I'm not junior. Grow up. And I am right and have been about this eventuality since 1992. It was just a matter of the right catalyst. COVID losses, massive national debt, declining enrollment, lack of state funds, and intentional downsizing of a bloated higher ed system has led to this.

Texas maintained talks with the SEC intermittently since then until now. They knew where they would have to go in a crisis.

When giants move its because real danger is on the horizon. And it is. This is a survive and thrive move and the fact that TTU and OSU are not a part emphasizes just how much fear of the future is involved.
Sorry JR. I have been on this board 11 years and I assumed, incorrectly I guess, that JR meant "Junior". My dad was a junior and the family always called him JR. Again, my apologies... My post was merely to point out how on-point you were regarding this.

No problem Medic. An ACC troll likes to use that.

We are going to have to watch Vandy now. If they decide to step out we may add another. Missouri's president needs to lobby for Kansas. If the Big 10 raids the ACC we might take 4 more and stop at 20.

The money is getting huge and the tension is going to be high.

I have a feeling we'll see the SEC and Big 10 emerge supreme and a new conference formed out of the rest which pays in the 40-45 million range so that noone left behind has damage claims. And that conference would have a playoff slot and have a chance at at large spots.

This is a process coming from corporate networks who used COVID losses to accelerate their agenda.
Now that you mention it, I remember that troll. Kansas would be a welcome addition to the SEC. It would benefit their football program, and add to SEC BB. They could also get over the pain of being left by the Tigers. lol

Don't bet on them getting over it. Some butt hurt never dies as it just festers in the bowel. I give you Texas and A&M. There are hemorrhoids inflamed in both of them. Don't they understand that their hate is extremely profitable, like Auburn / Alabama on a grander scale?
07-23-2021 06:14 PM
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