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Grungy Offline
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Post: #1081
RE: New Realignment Thread
(11-19-2021 12:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  It's absolutely asinine for the school of music to be able to get away with that. If they let their kids join, that could mean as many as thirity more MOB members. The MOB barely practices anyway. There's no time taken away from studies.

The MOB rehearses four times during a football game week, each time for 90 minutes, three times when we aren't traveling to a game.

There's also the basketball games (playing for both teams), the occasional volleyball game, and a very rare soccer game.
Yesterday, a miniMOB played the ladyies cross country team off on their journey to the NCAA championship.

We traveled to the C-USA tournament game that was forfeit because of COVID protocols.

The MOB gets requests for miniMOBs all the time.

Away from sports, there are two more organizations - the Rice Symphonic Band, and the Rice Jazz Ensemble (and they have a performance tonight).

As with everything else in the Rice band programs, participation is voluntary.
The hours add up.
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2021 02:33 PM by Grungy.)
11-19-2021 01:54 PM
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Post: #1082
RE: New Realignment Thread
(11-19-2021 01:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  . IIRC the MOB grew quite a bit when Shepherd first started, including adding a sizable string session.

The marching strings, especially the cello were among my favorite parts.... also the kazoos and electric guitars and drums.
11-19-2021 02:15 PM
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Grungy Offline
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Post: #1083
RE: New Realignment Thread
(11-19-2021 01:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 12:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I know of numerous other double-major Rice grads from the early Shep days. Perhaps there is something about specific 'conservatory' programs?? IDK. Wasn't there a football player who was part of Shep?

I think the prohibition against MOB participation by Shepherd School is a fairly recent policy, perhaps one instituted by a new dean at some point. IIRC the MOB grew quite a bit when Shepherd first started, including adding a sizable string session.

You and I might define "recent" as "the last couple of decades".
I can't think of a music major in the band program in the last decade.
There might have been one or two in the previous decade.
I'm thinking of a composition major (or two?) but I'm blanking on the name(s).
Composition majors don't have the same practice and rehearsal demands as instrumentalists, and that may be why they were able to find the time for The MOB.
There are rehearsal time conflicts between the music school and The MOB, and I sincerely doubt that Shepherd is deliberately creating those conflicts to preclude participation.
It's just the way it is.

The MOB became part of the Shepherd School when the school first took real form - mid-Seventies.
Dean Sam Jones even joined The MOB on the field, to conduct us for one show segment.
We had more than a few MOBsters who were music majors.
It wasn't a huge number, but they were demonstrably quite skilled.

After Shepherd shed the onus of our very unprofessional ways, and the band programs found themselves under the sheltering wing of Student Advising, participation by the music majors dwindled.

A few Shepherd School students (now grads) who were in The MOB:
Marty Merritt played bass, was the Drum minor in '82 and Drum Major in '83, and is now the Director of Information and Music Technologies in the Shepherd School.
Christina Carroll played snare, and is now principal percussionist with the Houston Ballet Orchestra.
Germaine (Petri) Franco played snare in The MOB, tuned percussion in the jazz ensemble and is now a film composer (Coco, Encanto).

These people were clearly not crushed by the additional load of participating in the Rice Bands.

We also had some faculty participation too.
Professor Emeritus (now) of Percussion Richard Brown played snare with us for part of at least one season.
Robert Walp is assistant principal trumpet with the Houston Symphony, taught in the Shepherd School for five years, and played briefly with The MOB in the early Ken Dye years.
He was a classmate of Ken Dye at USC.

Personally, I wish that any Rice person that wants to participate in the band program, and can work past the time demands, would be allowed to.
11-19-2021 02:31 PM
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MOBalum Offline
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Post: #1084
RE: New Realignment Thread
(11-19-2021 01:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 12:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I know of numerous other double-major Rice grads from the early Shep days. Perhaps there is something about specific 'conservatory' programs?? IDK. Wasn't there a football player who was part of Shep?

Yes, there was, and he sang an amazing rendition of the National Anthem before the basketball game where we blew out TexasU on ESPN. I still remember Tim Brando very demonstratively saluting him at the end of the anthem.

You're thinking of Alan Green, Hanszen '95. He entered Rice as a running back but left the team as his performance career took off. Alan has had a great deal of success on Broadway and in touring productions.
11-19-2021 03:52 PM
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Post: #1085
RE: New Realignment Thread
(11-19-2021 01:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 12:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I know of numerous other double-major Rice grads from the early Shep days. Perhaps there is something about specific 'conservatory' programs?? IDK. Wasn't there a football player who was part of Shep?

Yes, there was, and he sang an amazing rendition of the National Anthem before the basketball game where we blew out TexasU on ESPN. I still remember Tim Brando very demonstratively saluting him at the end of the anthem.

I think the prohibition against MOB participation by Shepherd School is a fairly recent policy, perhaps one instituted by a new dean at some point. IIRC the MOB grew quite a bit when Shepherd first started, including adding a sizable string session.

I can't tell you what has happened in between, but in my MOB tenure (2000-2003) Shepherd students were very strongly discouraged from joining the MOB.

A group of us MOBsters managed to convince a few of our Shepherd friends to join for a show or two, including one of them hilariously running into the gong and falling down at the end of Mortal Kombat, but that was an outlier.
11-19-2021 04:15 PM
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Post: #1086
RE: New Realignment Thread
(11-19-2021 03:52 PM)MOBalum Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 01:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 12:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Wasn't there a football player who was part of Shep?

Yes, there was, and he sang an amazing rendition of the National Anthem before the basketball game where we blew out TexasU on ESPN. I still remember Tim Brando very demonstratively saluting him at the end of the anthem.

You're thinking of Alan Green, Hanszen '95. He entered Rice as a running back but left the team as his performance career took off. Alan has had a great deal of success on Broadway and in touring productions.

FYI ... Green recently won a "Berkie" Award for Outstanding Performance by a Lead Actor in a Musical for his performance in the Barrington Stage Company's production of "Who Could Ask For Anything More: The Songs of George Gershwin".

This year's Berkies were given "for outstanding achievements in theatre arts for productions in the greater Berkshire region between October 1, 2019 and September 30, 2021"

https://www.broadwayworld.com/boston/art...s-20010101

Here's a link to an interview with him and a co-star before the show: https://www.broadwayworld.com/boston/art...y-20210621

... and a profile in the April-May 1992 Sallyport (p33 on the pdf/p31 of the Sallyport: https://scholarship.rice.edu/bitstream/h...no05.pdf).
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2021 04:18 PM by Almadenmike.)
11-19-2021 04:18 PM
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owl at the moon Offline
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Post: #1087
New Realignment Thread
(11-19-2021 01:30 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 10:26 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 09:55 AM)franklyconfused Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 09:47 AM)Ourland Wrote:  I don't mind the Mob, I guess, but there aren't enough members. Every student should be allowed to join, and students majoring in music should be encouraged to join, as opposed to being told that they can't. It's absurd. What kind of rule is that? Students majoring in music can't join the band?

Students majoring in music also can't double major*. The Shepherd School basically expects its students to have no hobbies or interests other than professional music development. Learning (or worse, writing) a MOB performance takes away orchestra and chamber practice time.

*According to Shepherd, not the university. The university will still award a dual degree if a music student earns it, but Shepherd will kick them out of the music program if they learn the student is pursuing a dual degree.

I don't think this is true.

I can think of four Shepherd students who I knew personally that double-majored at Rice during my time (2014-12/2017). And they didn't exactly live their life "in the closet." Two of them did have to take an extra semester though-but that's no different than many other double majoring students.

(11-19-2021 12:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I know of numerous other double-major Rice grads from the early Shep days. Perhaps there is something about specific 'conservatory' programs?? IDK. Wasn't there a football player who was part of Shep?

I don't know if Chuck has specifically said so, but I think Grungy has that participation by them is more than discouraged... and I'd defer absolutely to them. I'm surprised though that we don't have more casual players... guys who played in the band in high school and had fun, but don't want to make a career out of it. It may not be the case anymore, but there was a time when being in the band caused GPA troubles for some elite academs who were only 'fun time' musicians... which may mean we aren't admitting that many anymore.


There seems to be a parallel to how we appear to handle sports here, but I'm having trouble putting it into exact words.


I also have difficulty finding the words.
Perhaps I shall try using the language of the emoji, blended with some mathematics.

11-20-2021 08:33 PM
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Post: #1088
RE: New Realignment Thread
(11-19-2021 01:54 PM)Grungy Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 12:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  It's absolutely asinine for the school of music to be able to get away with that. If they let their kids join, that could mean as many as thirity more MOB members. The MOB barely practices anyway. There's no time taken away from studies.

The MOB rehearses four times during a football game week, each time for 90 minutes, three times when we aren't traveling to a game.

There's also the basketball games (playing for both teams), the occasional volleyball game, and a very rare soccer game.
Yesterday, a miniMOB played the ladyies cross country team off on their journey to the NCAA championship.

We traveled to the C-USA tournament game that was forfeit because of COVID protocols.

The MOB gets requests for miniMOBs all the time.

Away from sports, there are two more organizations - the Rice Symphonic Band, and the Rice Jazz Ensemble (and they have a performance tonight).

As with everything else in the Rice band programs, participation is voluntary.
The hours add up.

I thought the 'scatter band' concept was adopted because so many students could not commit to practicing more than 4-5 hours a week. I don't know how other schools do it, but I bet they demand much more time than that.
11-22-2021 12:51 AM
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Grungy Offline
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Post: #1089
RE: New Realignment Thread
(11-22-2021 12:51 AM)Ourland Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 01:54 PM)Grungy Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 12:19 PM)Ourland Wrote:  It's absolutely asinine for the school of music to be able to get away with that. If they let their kids join, that could mean as many as thirity more MOB members. The MOB barely practices anyway. There's no time taken away from studies.

The MOB rehearses four times during a football game week, each time for 90 minutes, three times when we aren't traveling to a game.

There's also the basketball games (playing for both teams), the occasional volleyball game, and a very rare soccer game.
Yesterday, a miniMOB played the ladyies cross country team off on their journey to the NCAA championship.

We traveled to the C-USA tournament game that was forfeit because of COVID protocols.

The MOB gets requests for miniMOBs all the time.

Away from sports, there are two more organizations - the Rice Symphonic Band, and the Rice Jazz Ensemble (and they have a performance tonight).

As with everything else in the Rice band programs, participation is voluntary.
The hours add up.

I thought the 'scatter band' concept was adopted because so many students could not commit to practicing more than 4-5 hours a week. I don't know how other schools do it, but I bet they demand much more time than that.

In the very early '70s the scatter band concept was adopted because marching, even with a clever script, was really boring.

Other schools might offer a college credit or credits, and maybe there's some money, in the form of a scholarship.
The MOB cannot and does not.
11-22-2021 01:17 AM
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Post: #1090
RE: New Realignment Thread
What's the answer? How does the MOB find thirty more members?
11-22-2021 09:10 AM
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Post: #1091
RE: New Realignment Thread
Shepherd looks down on popular music. They are only interested in orchestras and operas.

(11-19-2021 04:15 PM)Seventyniner Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 01:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 12:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I know of numerous other double-major Rice grads from the early Shep days. Perhaps there is something about specific 'conservatory' programs?? IDK. Wasn't there a football player who was part of Shep?

Yes, there was, and he sang an amazing rendition of the National Anthem before the basketball game where we blew out TexasU on ESPN. I still remember Tim Brando very demonstratively saluting him at the end of the anthem.

I think the prohibition against MOB participation by Shepherd School is a fairly recent policy, perhaps one instituted by a new dean at some point. IIRC the MOB grew quite a bit when Shepherd first started, including adding a sizable string session.

I can't tell you what has happened in between, but in my MOB tenure (2000-2003) Shepherd students were very strongly discouraged from joining the MOB.

A group of us MOBsters managed to convince a few of our Shepherd friends to join for a show or two, including one of them hilariously running into the gong and falling down at the end of Mortal Kombat, but that was an outlier.
11-22-2021 11:11 AM
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Grungy Offline
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Post: #1092
RE: New Realignment Thread
(11-22-2021 09:10 AM)Ourland Wrote:  What's the answer? How does the MOB find thirty more members?

We've been seeking an answer to that for years.
We see evidence that the undergraduate student body still contains quite a few people who played in band in high school.

We used to send out recruiting snail-mail to all of the incoming freshlings (early), and reminders to those that showed any interest (later in the summer).
Rice no longer lets us do that.
I don't have the specifics on that change - whether it is a general prohibition, or if it is simply no longer in our budget.

Would the non-music-majors that don't join The MOB really prefer to spend hours in the hot sun, carefully rehearsing marching in 9" backward diagonal steps to maintain a Spirograph formation instead of scattering?
I certainly don't.
It's safe to say that I am somewhat biased in that respect.

The loss of interest in a spirit-group band has more or less paralleled the loss of student support for athletics in general.
I don't have a solution for that either.

The change in conferences, and in the way bands are used in the media circus of modern collegiate football has not helped.

The big draw of The MOB for many years was how different it was from all those other bands, especially in the SWC.
That contrast has been lost.
More often than not the band from the Directional State U supply of C-USA doesn't travel to away games.
We are the routine now, not the oddity, and familiarity breeds contempt.
That is particularly true when we lack those rare offerings from our opponents that make for the biting humor that so many fans crave.
No coaches fleeing to Tulsa.
No Title IX issues.
No grown men falling asleep naked in the backyard.
No politics.
We aren't the Don Rickles of half time bands.
It's not all about insulting the other school.

Hopefully, the nearby and more familiar AAC schools will have bands that travel to Houston, and they can once again be our foils
(Oh! Look! Something to do with the subject of this thread!)

Performance time has been whittled from 8 minutes to 6 minutes at half time, even when there is no opposing band.
The rules for when The MOB can play during the game have also reduced our playing time.
As I've said before, we rarely get to finish playing a tune, after we wait our turn during times out.
The ads have to play first.
This is not much fun for a musician.

The MOB you see at games now is the distilled essence of non-music-majors who really want to play in a band.
That includes the many who play non-traditional "marching" band instruments that don't do a lot to fill the stadium with sound, but they fill the band with spirit.
Unfortunately, you don't get to hear the magnificence of the opening bars of "25 or 6 to 4" while surrounded by cellos.
I do. 03-cloud9
11-22-2021 11:41 AM
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Post: #1093
RE: New Realignment Thread
(11-19-2021 01:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 12:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I know of numerous other double-major Rice grads from the early Shep days. Perhaps there is something about specific 'conservatory' programs?? IDK. Wasn't there a football player who was part of Shep?


I think the prohibition against MOB participation by Shepherd School is a fairly recent policy, perhaps one instituted by a new dean at some point. IIRC the MOB grew quite a bit when Shepherd first started, including adding a sizable string session.

FYI, I checked with the current dean of the Shepherd School and he is unaware of any prohibition on participation now - or, for that matter, any that pre-date him.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2021 03:24 PM by NYNightOwl.)
11-24-2021 03:23 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #1094
RE: New Realignment Thread
(11-24-2021 03:23 PM)NYNightOwl Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 01:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 12:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I know of numerous other double-major Rice grads from the early Shep days. Perhaps there is something about specific 'conservatory' programs?? IDK. Wasn't there a football player who was part of Shep?
I think the prohibition against MOB participation by Shepherd School is a fairly recent policy, perhaps one instituted by a new dean at some point. IIRC the MOB grew quite a bit when Shepherd first started, including adding a sizable string session.
FYI, I checked with the current dean of the Shepherd School and he is unaware of any prohibition on participation now - or, for that matter, any that pre-date him.

Very interesting. Maybe "strongly discouraged" is a better description, at least in some quarters.
11-24-2021 04:37 PM
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Post: #1095
RE: New Realignment Thread
(11-24-2021 03:23 PM)NYNightOwl Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 01:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-19-2021 12:25 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I know of numerous other double-major Rice grads from the early Shep days. Perhaps there is something about specific 'conservatory' programs?? IDK. Wasn't there a football player who was part of Shep?


I think the prohibition against MOB participation by Shepherd School is a fairly recent policy, perhaps one instituted by a new dean at some point. IIRC the MOB grew quite a bit when Shepherd first started, including adding a sizable string session.

FYI, I checked with the current dean of the Shepherd School and he is unaware of any prohibition on participation now - or, for that matter, any that pre-date him.

He's brand new. He may have a different philosophy on that subject than the outgoing Dean. From what I've heard, he definitely has a completely different take on things than the old Dean (who had been there awhile).
11-24-2021 04:59 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #1096
RE: New Realignment Thread
Isn't it possible that people don't join the MOB because the current members are just too weird, even for Rice standards - similar to how an extreme minority ruined KTRU?
11-24-2021 06:41 PM
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owl at the moon Offline
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Post: #1097
New Realignment Thread
(11-24-2021 06:41 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Isn't it possible that people don't join the MOB because the current members are just too weird, even for Rice standards - similar to how an extreme minority ruined KTRU?


Maybe….

For many the Rice experience is learning how to dial it back to the 2σ behavior from the 3σ or even 4σ that many of us came in with.
11-24-2021 07:37 PM
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