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The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
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BraveKnight Offline
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Post: #1
The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnatio...ealignment
Based on if Pac 12 had successfully raided B12
East:
UConn
Rutgers
Cincinnati
West Virginia
South Florida
UCF

West:
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
TCU
Louisville
07-21-2021 12:29 AM
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RUScarlets Online
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Post: #2
RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
Scott should have made the Corleone offer to UT to get them to commit. Ultimately UT made the right decision and the PAC ended up in purgatory not having the talent or rich recruiting base out west.

ACC would have still taken UL as MD replacement so maybe Memphis eventually gets in there. Other than that, that would’ve been your P6 lite. Rutgers and UConn long term I’m not so sure… Temple for Rutgers a possibility to keep UConn BBall happy.
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2021 02:26 AM by RUScarlets.)
07-21-2021 02:24 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
If the Pac-12 had successfully raided the Big 12, Kansas would have gone with the Texahoma 4 (omitting TAMU, who never wanted to move west) and Utah would still be in the MWC along with BYU. Based on the timing of invites to the BE/AAC in our timeline, we probably see Houston, Memphis, and Navy taking the last 3 Big 12 slots during the "Great Realignment", with Wichita State perhaps joining a few years later. SMU was invited to the BE/AAC at the same time as Houston and UCF, but I expect the incoming presence of TCU would put the kibosh on that.

Big 12
East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Memphis, South Florida, West Virginia
West: Baylor, Houston, Iowa State, Kansas State, Navy (FB only), TCU
Non-FB: Wichita State

So this Big 12 has more cachet than the AAC of our timeline, but is ultimately a tweener conference left out of the P4. UConn eventually departs for the new Big East, and the Big 12 gets a waiver to hang out as the "Big 11" and have a CCG without divisions or round robin play.

Meanwhile, the Mountain West is in better shape than our timeline, although USU and SJSU are not due to WAC football collapsing (and yes, it would still collapse):

MWC
Mountain: Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming
West: Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii (FB only), Nevada, San Diego State, UNLV

CUSA and the Sun Belt are also doing better, each having lost fewer teams than in our timeline:

CUSA
East: Charlotte, East Carolina, FIU, Marshall, Old Dominion, Southern Miss, UAB
West: Louisiana Tech, Rice, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, UTEP, UTSA

Sun Belt
East: Appalachian State, FAU, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky
West: Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, North Texas, South Alabama, Troy
Non-FB: Little Rock

Just as TCU's presence prevented the promotion of SMU to the Big 12, SMU in turn prevented North Texas from joining CUSA, and North Texas in turn prevented Texas State and UT Arlington from joining the Sun Belt. Temple and UMass are still MAC FB affiliates, and there are more FBS indies, with San Jose State, Texas State, and Utah State FB joining Idaho and New Mexico State FB in homelessness after the demise of WAC FB.
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2021 06:19 AM by Nerdlinger.)
07-21-2021 05:55 AM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #4
RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
(07-21-2021 05:55 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  If the Pac-12 had successfully raided the Big 12, Kansas would have gone with the Texahoma 4 (omitting TAMU, who never wanted to move west) and Utah would still be in the MWC along with BYU. Based on the timing of invites to the BE/AAC in our timeline, we probably see Houston, Memphis, and Navy taking the last 3 Big 12 slots during the "Great Realignment", with Wichita State perhaps joining a few years later. SMU was invited to the BE/AAC at the same time as Houston and UCF, but I expect the incoming presence of TCU would put the kibosh on that.

Big 12
East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Memphis, South Florida, West Virginia
West: Baylor, Houston, Iowa State, Kansas State, Navy (FB only), TCU
Non-FB: Wichita State

So this Big 12 has more cachet than the AAC of our timeline, but is ultimately a tweener conference left out of the P4. UConn eventually departs for the new Big East, and the Big 12 gets a waiver to hang out as the "Big 11" and have a CCG without divisions or round robin play.

Meanwhile, the Mountain West is in better shape than our timeline, although USU and SJSU are not due to WAC football collapsing (and yes, it would still collapse):

MWC
Mountain: Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming
West: Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii (FB only), Nevada, San Diego State, UNLV

CUSA and the Sun Belt are also doing better, each having lost fewer teams than in our timeline:

CUSA
East: Charlotte, East Carolina, FIU, Marshall, Old Dominion, Southern Miss, UAB
West: Louisiana Tech, Rice, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, UTEP, UTSA

Sun Belt
East: Appalachian State, FAU, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky
West: Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, North Texas, South Alabama, Troy
Non-FB: Little Rock

Just as TCU's presence prevented the promotion of SMU to the Big 12, SMU in turn prevented North Texas from joining CUSA, and North Texas in turn prevented Texas State and UT Arlington from joining the Sun Belt. Temple and UMass are still MAC FB affiliates, and there are more FBS indies, with San Jose State, Texas State, and Utah State FB joining Idaho and New Mexico State FB in homelessness after the demise of WAC FB.

With that many indy teams out west, all they would need to do is persuade one of the Cali Big Sky teams to switch to the WAC as all sports members. Sure, they would be scrambling for body bag games to fill out the schedule, but it would preserve WAC football at the FBS level.
07-21-2021 07:15 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
I question the accuracy of this article. At the time that the PAC 10 was making overtures to take 6 Big 12 teams and Nebraska was courting the Big 10, the Big East still had Pitt and Syracuse.

I think what was more likely to occur was that the Big East would have taken in the 5 (or 4 of the 5) remaining Big 12 schools: Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri, and Baylor.
07-21-2021 07:19 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
(07-21-2021 07:19 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I question the accuracy of this article. At the time that the PAC 10 was making overtures to take 6 Big 12 teams and Nebraska was courting the Big 10, the Big East still had Pitt and Syracuse.

I think what was more likely to occur was that the Big East would have taken in the 5 (or 4 of the 5) remaining Big 12 schools: Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri, and Baylor.

That was my impression back then as well. During that brief moment in late 2010 when it looked like the Big 12 might collapse due to the PAC raid, the Big East did make it clear that any "leftovers" would find a welcome home in the Big East, but I don't recall anything about expanding with UCF at that same time.
07-21-2021 07:41 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
(07-21-2021 07:15 AM)whittx Wrote:  With that many indy teams out west, all they would need to do is persuade one of the Cali Big Sky teams to switch to the WAC as all sports members. Sure, they would be scrambling for body bag games to fill out the schedule, but it would preserve WAC football at the FBS level.

WAC FB in 2013:
Idaho
New Mexico State
San Jose State
Texas State
Utah State
?
?
?
07-21-2021 07:55 AM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #8
RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
(07-21-2021 07:55 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 07:15 AM)whittx Wrote:  With that many indy teams out west, all they would need to do is persuade one of the Cali Big Sky teams to switch to the WAC as all sports members. Sure, they would be scrambling for body bag games to fill out the schedule, but it would preserve WAC football at the FBS level.

WAC FB in 2013:
Idaho
New Mexico State
San Jose State
Texas State
Utah State
?
?
?

Davis
Sac State
UTSA doesn't get a CUSA invite
07-21-2021 09:22 AM
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schmolik Offline
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RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
From the New York Post, Sept. 5, 2011:

https://nypost.com/2011/09/05/big-east-c...-missouri/

The article also hinted in the Big Ten's interest in Maryland and the SEC's in Missouri although "sources told The Post Missouri sees a better cultural fit with the Big East than the SEC."

You can probably guess my opinions about teams west of the Mississippi in the Big East. I didn't even want TCU in the Big East.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/8440...-and-uconn
07-21-2021 09:24 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
(07-21-2021 09:24 AM)schmolik Wrote:  From the New York Post, Sept. 5, 2011:

https://nypost.com/2011/09/05/big-east-c...-missouri/

The article also hinted in the Big Ten's interest in Maryland and the SEC's in Missouri although "sources told The Post Missouri sees a better cultural fit with the Big East than the SEC."

You can probably guess my opinions about teams west of the Mississippi in the Big East. I didn't even want TCU in the Big East.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/8440...-and-uconn

So, in 2011, if Texas, TTU, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma St had gone to the PAC 12, TAMU likely still would have been followed by Missouri in the SEC.

That would have left the Big East with Kansas, Kansas St, and Iowa St to add to their conference (with TCU being the 12th football school).

This is, of course, dependent on the Big 10 and ACC not making any moves.
07-21-2021 10:58 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #11
RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
(07-21-2021 09:22 AM)whittx Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 07:55 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 07:15 AM)whittx Wrote:  With that many indy teams out west, all they would need to do is persuade one of the Cali Big Sky teams to switch to the WAC as all sports members. Sure, they would be scrambling for body bag games to fill out the schedule, but it would preserve WAC football at the FBS level.

WAC FB in 2013:
Idaho
New Mexico State
San Jose State
Texas State
Utah State
?
?
?

Davis
Sac State
UTSA doesn't get a CUSA invite

Questionable about UC Davis and Sac State, given that they didn't bite in our timeline. And CUSA's invite to UTSA wasn't out of charity. So that invite would likely still happen, and UTSA would take it.
07-21-2021 11:52 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
(07-21-2021 09:24 AM)schmolik Wrote:  From the New York Post, Sept. 5, 2011:

https://nypost.com/2011/09/05/big-east-c...-missouri/

The article also hinted in the Big Ten's interest in Maryland and the SEC's in Missouri although "sources told The Post Missouri sees a better cultural fit with the Big East than the SEC."

You can probably guess my opinions about teams west of the Mississippi in the Big East. I didn't even want TCU in the Big East.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/8440...-and-uconn

Ah yes, the second attempt at the Pac-16, in which Colorado and Utah have already joined, meaning no room for Kansas. That would likely have led to a MWC with the same lineup as in the present day of our timeline. Also, with Kansas still in the fold, I'd guess Navy doesn't get a Big 12 invite, and Wichita State definitely doesn't get invited. So CUSA, the MAC, and the Sun Belt end up the same as in the scenario I posted upthread.
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2021 11:59 AM by Nerdlinger.)
07-21-2021 11:57 AM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #13
RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
I remember when realignment was happening so fast in 2010, Bill Self said Kansas was in talks with the Big East. It was rumored Baylor was in talks with the MWC but it was never confirmed nor denied by Baylor.
07-21-2021 01:40 PM
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RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
(07-21-2021 12:29 AM)BraveKnight Wrote:  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnatio...ealignment
Based on if Pac 12 had successfully raided B12
East:
UConn
Rutgers
Cincinnati
West Virginia
South Florida
UCF

West:
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
TCU
Louisville

Let’s assume this happens in the 1 year gap between the Big East losing Pitt/Cuse and WVU/TCU.

You’ve got the PAC 16, SEC (14), ACC (14), and Big 10 (12).

Let’s assume the Big 10 still gets an expansion itch, not wanting to be the smallest of the P4.

Is ND content in the Big East’s 12/20 alignment? Do they see an association with the ACC Or full membership with the Big 10 as better situations?

Let’s say ND still goes to the ACC, and Rutgers and Maryland to the Big 10.

Does the ACC still take Louisville?

Who are the replacements (if any) in the Big East?
07-21-2021 02:04 PM
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Scoochpooch1 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
(07-21-2021 12:29 AM)BraveKnight Wrote:  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnatio...ealignment
Based on if Pac 12 had successfully raided B12
East:
UConn
Rutgers
Cincinnati
West Virginia
South Florida
UCF

West:
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
TCU
Louisville

That should have happened
07-21-2021 09:23 PM
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BraveKnight Offline
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RE: The Big East-Big 12 Merger that almost happened
(07-21-2021 09:23 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 12:29 AM)BraveKnight Wrote:  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnatio...ealignment
Based on if Pac 12 had successfully raided B12
East:
UConn
Rutgers
Cincinnati
West Virginia
South Florida
UCF

West:
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
TCU
Louisville

That should have happened
The funny thing is that with this new news, it actually might, with a few schools changed, like Memphis in place of Rutgers, Houston in place of Louisville, etc.
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2021 09:40 PM by BraveKnight.)
07-21-2021 09:40 PM
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