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SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
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Maize Offline
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SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
From the Article

Frustrations are boiling over. That’s especially the case in the SEC, a league so flush with cash that it distributed an extra $23 million to its members this year after borrowing the money against a new television deal the conference signed with ESPN, rumored to be worth nearly a half-billion dollars.

“We’re tired of being told by some small school up in the northeast that we can’t do something,” says one SEC school administrator. “Why is Alabama and Binghamton in the same division? We continue to put those two on equal footing and it’s about time that all of us admitted that.”


https://www.si.com/.amp/college/2021/07/...ssion=true
07-19-2021 08:44 AM
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schmolik Online
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
If certain schools and conferences could give scholarships for all athletes, male and female, football and Olympic sports, that would be better for a lot of athletes and help a lot of female athletes. Instead of using football as the dividing line as to a separate "top division", this should be. I would think the Big East schools should be rich enough to give scholarships to all athletes along with the P5's. On the other hand, could the MAC schools?
07-19-2021 09:21 AM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
(07-19-2021 09:21 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I would think the Big East schools should be rich enough to give scholarships to all athletes along with the P5's. On the other hand, could the MAC schools?

The Big East doesn't have that kind of revenue pool. To give a scholarship to every student athlete at Georgetown would cost $55 million a year.
07-19-2021 09:30 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
Any change will still allow the G5 to compete under the same rules as the P5.

As much as Alabama might complain about being in the same governance structure as "small schools," they still scheduled Southern Miss, New Mexico State, and Mercer in football this year.
07-19-2021 09:33 AM
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solohawks Online
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
As long as you ultimately guarantee playoff access in all sports like there is now, I think in the end the P5 will get what they want
07-19-2021 09:35 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
(07-19-2021 09:33 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Any change will still allow the G5 to compete under the same rules as the P5.

As much as Alabama might complain about being in the same governance structure as "small schools," they still scheduled Southern Miss, New Mexico State, and Mercer in football this year.

Well, you play the hand you are currently dealt because that's the reality right now, but that doesn't mean you aren't interested in changing the rules of the game..
07-19-2021 09:49 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
I may not have full context of what was being discussed, but it seems to me they are not looking to go to P5 only, but are interested in pairing down the 350 schools that play D1 athletics. The quotes do mention schools like Binghamton, Mercer, etc. not Southern Miss, San Diego State, or Houston.
07-19-2021 10:14 AM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
Wow. The knives are out and disdain of Emmert is becoming even more transparent. The fact that both Sankey (SEC) and Bowlsby (B12) are making their grievances public is amazing. They are not going to let Emmert win the public relations war and have oversized influence over college athletics.

Emmert has been masterful in maintaining power…for himself and the NCAA. IMO, Sankey makes a great point when he points out that Alabama and Binghamton athletics share the same NCAA governance requirements for D1 scholarships, yet the financials of the athletic departments are wildly different. SUNY schools can barely afford D1 (https://www.uticaod.com/news/20200316/de...-athletics) while the Crimson Tide wants/needs to provide more scholarships.
07-19-2021 10:30 AM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
(07-19-2021 09:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 09:33 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Any change will still allow the G5 to compete under the same rules as the P5.

As much as Alabama might complain about being in the same governance structure as "small schools," they still scheduled Southern Miss, New Mexico State, and Mercer in football this year.

Well, you play the hand you are currently dealt because that's the reality right now, but that doesn't mean you aren't interested in changing the rules of the game..

Agreed. The Tide schedule that way because they are competing for playoff spots against other teams that schedule that way. Saban has said he wants tougher schedules, but Alabama isn't going to hurt its playoff prospects by being the only team that schedules 11 or 12 P5 opponents. No other playoff contender is going to unilaterally toughen up its schedules, either.
07-19-2021 10:47 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
(07-19-2021 10:30 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Wow. The knives are out and disdain of Emmert is becoming even more transparent. The fact that both Sankey (SEC) and Bowlsby (B12) are making their grievances public is amazing. They are not going to let Emmert win the public relations war and have oversized influence over college athletics.

Emmert has been masterful in maintaining power…for himself and the NCAA. IMO, Sankey makes a great point when he points out that Alabama and Binghamton athletics share the same NCAA governance requirements for D1 scholarships, yet the financials of the athletic departments are wildly different. SUNY schools can barely afford D1 (https://www.uticaod.com/news/20200316/de...-athletics) while the Crimson Tide wants/needs to provide more scholarships.

Yes, Sankey makes the good point that the "inclusive" structure of D1 is actually hurting athletes. More of them could be getting scholarships now because at least some P5 are willing to offer more, but the constraints, which are basically in place to protect the low-income schools ability to compete at D1, are preventing that.

I don't think low-income schools should be protected this way, at the expense of athletes. If a school doesn't have the money to compete fully at the highest level, they should drop down divisions or something. Athletes shouldn't suffer to boost them.
07-19-2021 11:48 AM
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cubucks Offline
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
(07-19-2021 10:47 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 09:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 09:33 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Any change will still allow the G5 to compete under the same rules as the P5.

As much as Alabama might complain about being in the same governance structure as "small schools," they still scheduled Southern Miss, New Mexico State, and Mercer in football this year.

Well, you play the hand you are currently dealt because that's the reality right now, but that doesn't mean you aren't interested in changing the rules of the game..

Agreed. The Tide schedule that way because they are competing for playoff spots against other teams that schedule that way. Saban has said he wants tougher schedules, but Alabama isn't going to hurt its playoff prospects by being the only team that schedules 11 or 12 P5 opponents. No other playoff contender is going to unilaterally toughen up its schedules, either.

Alabama is obviously the greatest college football program in the history of this fabulous sport.

With that said, your comment is complete BS as far as I'm concerned. Why do you conveniently jump over 10 P5 games to 11 and 12? All BIG schools will play 10 P5 games in 2021 except for Indiana and Purdue is playing 11. That 2021 Alabama schedule is complete crap and the fans, I would hope, are demanding better!?!?!

I'm sure there are Big 12, ACC, PAC and other SEC schools playing 10 or more P5 games, I never looked into it.

Alabama's home games 2021:
Mercer
Southern Miss
Ole Miss
Tennessee
LSU
New Mexico State
Auburn

If I'm a fan down there, that's not very attractive. I can't even imagine the abuse tOSU would take up here with those OOC games, ridiculous!
07-19-2021 11:51 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
(07-19-2021 11:51 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 10:47 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 09:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 09:33 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Any change will still allow the G5 to compete under the same rules as the P5.

As much as Alabama might complain about being in the same governance structure as "small schools," they still scheduled Southern Miss, New Mexico State, and Mercer in football this year.

Well, you play the hand you are currently dealt because that's the reality right now, but that doesn't mean you aren't interested in changing the rules of the game..

Agreed. The Tide schedule that way because they are competing for playoff spots against other teams that schedule that way. Saban has said he wants tougher schedules, but Alabama isn't going to hurt its playoff prospects by being the only team that schedules 11 or 12 P5 opponents. No other playoff contender is going to unilaterally toughen up its schedules, either.

Alabama is obviously the greatest college football program in the history of this fabulous sport.

With that said, your comment is complete BS as far as I'm concerned. Why do you conveniently jump over 10 P5 games to 11 and 12? All BIG schools will play 10 P5 games in 2021 except for Indiana and Purdue is playing 11. That 2021 Alabama schedule is complete crap and the fans, I would hope, are demanding better!?!?!

I'm sure there are Big 12, ACC, PAC and other SEC schools playing 10 or more P5 games, I never looked into it.

Alabama's home games 2021:
Mercer
Southern Miss
Ole Miss
Tennessee
LSU
New Mexico State
Auburn

If I'm a fan down there, that's not very attractive. I can't even imagine the abuse tOSU would take up here with those OOC games, ridiculous!

Well, if I'm a Tide fan (and I'm decidedly NOT, but if) and I look at that schedule, what I see is home games vs

Ole Miss ....... a traditional rival coached by Lane Kiffin for extra spice.

Tennessee .... Another rival.

LSU ............. Another rival.

Auburn ........ Auburn.

So that's four very attractive games to me. Now, does this mean I think every game will be great? Of course not. Realistically, we will probably clobber Tennessee and Ole Miss. We might clobber Auburn and LSU too, but those are wild-cards. But that's fine! I like seeing my Tide clobber rivals, I'm not looking to have my heart stop every Saturday, LOL.

True, the games vs Mercer, NM State and USM are weak sauce. But still, why would I complain? I want us to win the SEC and CFP titles, and you can't do that getting beat up every week playing good teams. You need breathers, and these are the breathers.

Plus, to me, every home game is basically an "event". There's only 7 times out of 365 days that my beloved Tide take the field at home. So why wouldn't I want to be there for any of them?

I would personally have zero complaints.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2021 11:59 AM by quo vadis.)
07-19-2021 11:57 AM
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
(07-19-2021 11:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 10:30 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Wow. The knives are out and disdain of Emmert is becoming even more transparent. The fact that both Sankey (SEC) and Bowlsby (B12) are making their grievances public is amazing. They are not going to let Emmert win the public relations war and have oversized influence over college athletics.

Emmert has been masterful in maintaining power…for himself and the NCAA. IMO, Sankey makes a great point when he points out that Alabama and Binghamton athletics share the same NCAA governance requirements for D1 scholarships, yet the financials of the athletic departments are wildly different. SUNY schools can barely afford D1 (https://www.uticaod.com/news/20200316/de...-athletics) while the Crimson Tide wants/needs to provide more scholarships.

Yes, Sankey makes the good point that the "inclusive" structure of D1 is actually hurting athletes. More of them could be getting scholarships now because at least some P5 are willing to offer more, but the constraints, which are basically in place to protect the low-income schools ability to compete at D1, are preventing that.

I don't think low-income schools should be protected this way, at the expense of athletes. If a school doesn't have the money to compete fully at the highest level, they should drop down divisions or something. Athletes shouldn't suffer to boost them.

It’s not a simple argument to communicate to the general public. The A5 schools want/need to offer all full scholarships and more scholarships in certain sports. From the A5 perspective, Title IX may actually be helping their business model (relative to other D1 universities).
07-19-2021 12:33 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
(07-19-2021 12:33 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 11:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 10:30 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Wow. The knives are out and disdain of Emmert is becoming even more transparent. The fact that both Sankey (SEC) and Bowlsby (B12) are making their grievances public is amazing. They are not going to let Emmert win the public relations war and have oversized influence over college athletics.

Emmert has been masterful in maintaining power…for himself and the NCAA. IMO, Sankey makes a great point when he points out that Alabama and Binghamton athletics share the same NCAA governance requirements for D1 scholarships, yet the financials of the athletic departments are wildly different. SUNY schools can barely afford D1 (https://www.uticaod.com/news/20200316/de...-athletics) while the Crimson Tide wants/needs to provide more scholarships.

Yes, Sankey makes the good point that the "inclusive" structure of D1 is actually hurting athletes. More of them could be getting scholarships now because at least some P5 are willing to offer more, but the constraints, which are basically in place to protect the low-income schools ability to compete at D1, are preventing that.

I don't think low-income schools should be protected this way, at the expense of athletes. If a school doesn't have the money to compete fully at the highest level, they should drop down divisions or something. Athletes shouldn't suffer to boost them.

It’s not a simple argument to communicate to the general public. The A5 schools want/need to offer all full scholarships and more scholarships in certain sports. From the A5 perspective, Title IX may actually be helping their business model (relative to other D1 universities).

It's fascinating since it flies in the face of a lot of heartburn over how non-revenue sports were supposedly in danger with deregulation, NLI, etc. About half of this article was spent on how the P5 actually *wants* to spend more on non-revenue sports but can't due to NCAA scholarship limits.

That goes to my point in another thread: the power universities legitimately have zero problem with Title IX. It's a total red herring for fans and, regardless of what people think, it's the law and, if anything, it has a lot more strength today in the public realm than it did when it was first passed nearly 5 decades ago.
07-19-2021 12:47 PM
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
(07-19-2021 12:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  That goes to my point in another thread: the power universities legitimately have zero problem with Title IX. It's a total red herring for fans and, regardless of what people think, it's the law and, if anything, it has a lot more strength today in the public realm than it did when it was first passed nearly 5 decades ago.

It has prevented the addition of some sports where these schools could be nationally competitive. Men's soccer, for example, is virtually nonexistent in the SEC and Big 12.
07-19-2021 01:07 PM
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solohawks Online
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
I think its fair to say that Title IX is no big deal at schools where they have the money to comply.

At lower financed schools who can field a few competitive D1 programs, title IX can prohibit the addition of new sports that may be popular
07-19-2021 01:10 PM
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
(07-19-2021 12:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 12:33 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 11:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 10:30 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Wow. The knives are out and disdain of Emmert is becoming even more transparent. The fact that both Sankey (SEC) and Bowlsby (B12) are making their grievances public is amazing. They are not going to let Emmert win the public relations war and have oversized influence over college athletics.

Emmert has been masterful in maintaining power…for himself and the NCAA. IMO, Sankey makes a great point when he points out that Alabama and Binghamton athletics share the same NCAA governance requirements for D1 scholarships, yet the financials of the athletic departments are wildly different. SUNY schools can barely afford D1 (https://www.uticaod.com/news/20200316/de...-athletics) while the Crimson Tide wants/needs to provide more scholarships.

Yes, Sankey makes the good point that the "inclusive" structure of D1 is actually hurting athletes. More of them could be getting scholarships now because at least some P5 are willing to offer more, but the constraints, which are basically in place to protect the low-income schools ability to compete at D1, are preventing that.

I don't think low-income schools should be protected this way, at the expense of athletes. If a school doesn't have the money to compete fully at the highest level, they should drop down divisions or something. Athletes shouldn't suffer to boost them.

It’s not a simple argument to communicate to the general public. The A5 schools want/need to offer all full scholarships and more scholarships in certain sports. From the A5 perspective, Title IX may actually be helping their business model (relative to other D1 universities).

It's fascinating since it flies in the face of a lot of heartburn over how non-revenue sports were supposedly in danger with deregulation, NLI, etc. About half of this article was spent on how the P5 actually *wants* to spend more on non-revenue sports but can't due to NCAA scholarship limits.

That goes to my point in another thread: the power universities legitimately have zero problem with Title IX. It's a total red herring for fans and, regardless of what people think, it's the law and, if anything, it has a lot more strength today in the public realm than it did when it was first passed nearly 5 decades ago.


Or do they want to spend more on women's scholarships (like 25 for softball) so they can further dominate those sports and then make the case to increase the FOOTBALL scholarship limit so they can suck up all the talent again?
07-19-2021 01:10 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
(07-19-2021 12:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 12:33 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 11:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 10:30 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Wow. The knives are out and disdain of Emmert is becoming even more transparent. The fact that both Sankey (SEC) and Bowlsby (B12) are making their grievances public is amazing. They are not going to let Emmert win the public relations war and have oversized influence over college athletics.

Emmert has been masterful in maintaining power…for himself and the NCAA. IMO, Sankey makes a great point when he points out that Alabama and Binghamton athletics share the same NCAA governance requirements for D1 scholarships, yet the financials of the athletic departments are wildly different. SUNY schools can barely afford D1 (https://www.uticaod.com/news/20200316/de...-athletics) while the Crimson Tide wants/needs to provide more scholarships.

Yes, Sankey makes the good point that the "inclusive" structure of D1 is actually hurting athletes. More of them could be getting scholarships now because at least some P5 are willing to offer more, but the constraints, which are basically in place to protect the low-income schools ability to compete at D1, are preventing that.

I don't think low-income schools should be protected this way, at the expense of athletes. If a school doesn't have the money to compete fully at the highest level, they should drop down divisions or something. Athletes shouldn't suffer to boost them.

It’s not a simple argument to communicate to the general public. The A5 schools want/need to offer all full scholarships and more scholarships in certain sports. From the A5 perspective, Title IX may actually be helping their business model (relative to other D1 universities).

It's fascinating since it flies in the face of a lot of heartburn over how non-revenue sports were supposedly in danger with deregulation, NLI, etc. About half of this article was spent on how the P5 actually *wants* to spend more on non-revenue sports but can't due to NCAA scholarship limits.

That goes to my point in another thread: the power universities legitimately have zero problem with Title IX. It's a total red herring for fans and, regardless of what people think, it's the law and, if anything, it has a lot more strength today in the public realm than it did when it was first passed nearly 5 decades ago.

I think the A5 want to spend more (and what they are talking about is not that much more) on non-revenue sports under the current model. If suddenly--- the House court case ends up requiring a 50-50 revenue split between players and the school---that desire could dry up quite quickly. That said---I agree that a massive reorganization of D1 is likely coming. I see no way around at this point---especially if you think full on pay-for-play is the end game. My sense is pay-for-play will eventually be forced on the schools whether they like it or not.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2021 01:29 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-19-2021 01:28 PM
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cubucks Offline
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
(07-19-2021 11:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 11:51 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 10:47 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 09:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 09:33 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Any change will still allow the G5 to compete under the same rules as the P5.

As much as Alabama might complain about being in the same governance structure as "small schools," they still scheduled Southern Miss, New Mexico State, and Mercer in football this year.

Well, you play the hand you are currently dealt because that's the reality right now, but that doesn't mean you aren't interested in changing the rules of the game..

Agreed. The Tide schedule that way because they are competing for playoff spots against other teams that schedule that way. Saban has said he wants tougher schedules, but Alabama isn't going to hurt its playoff prospects by being the only team that schedules 11 or 12 P5 opponents. No other playoff contender is going to unilaterally toughen up its schedules, either.

Alabama is obviously the greatest college football program in the history of this fabulous sport.

With that said, your comment is complete BS as far as I'm concerned. Why do you conveniently jump over 10 P5 games to 11 and 12? All BIG schools will play 10 P5 games in 2021 except for Indiana and Purdue is playing 11. That 2021 Alabama schedule is complete crap and the fans, I would hope, are demanding better!?!?!

I'm sure there are Big 12, ACC, PAC and other SEC schools playing 10 or more P5 games, I never looked into it.

Alabama's home games 2021:
Mercer
Southern Miss
Ole Miss
Tennessee
LSU
New Mexico State
Auburn

If I'm a fan down there, that's not very attractive. I can't even imagine the abuse tOSU would take up here with those OOC games, ridiculous!

Well, if I'm a Tide fan (and I'm decidedly NOT, but if) and I look at that schedule, what I see is home games vs

Ole Miss ....... a traditional rival coached by Lane Kiffin for extra spice.

Tennessee .... Another rival.

LSU ............. Another rival.

Auburn ........ Auburn.

So that's four very attractive games to me. Now, does this mean I think every game will be great? Of course not. Realistically, we will probably clobber Tennessee and Ole Miss. We might clobber Auburn and LSU too, but those are wild-cards. But that's fine! I like seeing my Tide clobber rivals, I'm not looking to have my heart stop every Saturday, LOL.

True, the games vs Mercer, NM State and USM are weak sauce. But still, why would I complain? I want us to win the SEC and CFP titles, and you can't do that getting beat up every week playing good teams. You need breathers, and these are the breathers.

Plus, to me, every home game is basically an "event". There's only 7 times out of 365 days that my beloved Tide take the field at home. So why wouldn't I want to be there for any of them?

I would personally have zero complaints.
Auburn and LSU are "events". Tennessee and Ole Miss are historical conference games, not moving the needle as much as the former.

Alabama is the absolute best and you have 3 home slots to fill and that's what you give your fans?

I'll remember your "event" comment when you're constantly throwing around Massey Rankings this fall. I too think Massey is the cleanest, but I'm not defending crap when I see it.
Greatness doesn't make you immune to criticism.

I argue this with complete respect to my fellow posters.
07-19-2021 01:29 PM
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RE: SI The SEC, NCAA and a Fight to Change College Sports
(07-19-2021 11:51 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 10:47 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 09:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 09:33 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Any change will still allow the G5 to compete under the same rules as the P5.

As much as Alabama might complain about being in the same governance structure as "small schools," they still scheduled Southern Miss, New Mexico State, and Mercer in football this year.

Well, you play the hand you are currently dealt because that's the reality right now, but that doesn't mean you aren't interested in changing the rules of the game..

Agreed. The Tide schedule that way because they are competing for playoff spots against other teams that schedule that way. Saban has said he wants tougher schedules, but Alabama isn't going to hurt its playoff prospects by being the only team that schedules 11 or 12 P5 opponents. No other playoff contender is going to unilaterally toughen up its schedules, either.

Alabama is obviously the greatest college football program in the history of this fabulous sport.

With that said, your comment is complete BS as far as I'm concerned. Why do you conveniently jump over 10 P5 games to 11 and 12? All BIG schools will play 10 P5 games in 2021 except for Indiana and Purdue is playing 11. That 2021 Alabama schedule is complete crap and the fans, I would hope, are demanding better!?!?!

I'm sure there are Big 12, ACC, PAC and other SEC schools playing 10 or more P5 games, I never looked into it.

Alabama's home games 2021:
Mercer
Southern Miss
Ole Miss
Tennessee
LSU
New Mexico State
Auburn

If I'm a fan down there, that's not very attractive. I can't even imagine the abuse tOSU would take up here with those OOC games, ridiculous!

Tulsa and Akron say hello CUBucks. Bama play Miami, FL neutral site. Do if you look at OOC include all of them.
07-19-2021 01:48 PM
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