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The "WOKE" dog whistle
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Kyle Mack Offline
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Post: #41
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
Great explanation of woke.
An explanation of how Marxism was incorporated by academics into leftist identity politics to form what we now think of as 'wokeness' or 'woke ideology.'

0:00 Intro
01:11 Marxism vs Liberalism
01:51 Liberalism
03:54 Marxism
07:34 Problems With Marxism
08:52 Neo-Marxism
10:03 Marxism + Culture
11:17 The Frankfurt School
14:01 Critical Theory
14:57 Marxism + Culture + Identity Politics Movements
18:03 Marxism + Culture + Identity Politics - Marx
20:00 What's The Point?
22:02 Wokeness
23:33 Outro

Sources:

Economic And Philosophical Manuscripts - Karl Marx
Capital - Karl Marx
The Communist Manifesto - Karl Marx & Frederick Engels
Marx's Concept Of Man - Erich Fromm
Marxism - Thomas Sowell
Marxism Unmasked - Ludwig Von Mises
Liberalism - Ludwig Von Mises
On Liberty - John Stuart Mill
The Prison Notebooks - Antonio Gramsci
Traditional And Critical Theory - Max Horkheimer
Dialectic Of Enlightenment - Max Horkheimer & Theodor Adorno
Towards A New Manifesto - Max Horkheimer & Theodor Adorno
One Dimensional Man - Herbert Marcuse
Repressive Tolerance - Herbert Marcuse
Words That Wound - Mari J. Matsuda, Charles R. Lawrence III, Richard Delgado, Kimberlé Crenshaw
Mapping The Margins - Kimberlé Crenshaw



07-19-2021 09:47 AM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #42
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-18-2021 11:32 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Seriously, your taking isolated incidents and applying them to the whole. You don’t think people of other races do the same thing? You must’ve also had an Oedipus complex as a child I presume. Generalizations are never a good look.

And before you start with CRT remember most folks don’t have a guilty conscience like yourself. Everyone must be accountable for themselves. CRT is garbage propaganda for folks who need a set of crutches to explain why they are not accountable. It’s falling on deaf ears here.



5-Star post right there!
07-19-2021 09:55 AM
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scorpius Offline
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Post: #43
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-18-2021 11:49 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-18-2021 02:11 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(07-18-2021 11:26 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Woke and wookies and dog whistles?
You're even nuttier than I thought.
No.. it just goes to show you how childish these dog whistles from the right appear to me and most normal people. 03-shhhh

A dog whistle is by definition at a frequency that is heard only by dogs. If the dog whistle analogy were appropriate, you wouldn't hear it.

Didn't you read my original post? The meaning of it made no sense to me even when a Trump-type friend tried to explain it to me until I made a conscious effort to spend 10 minutes listening to Newsmax where they literally used it every other sentence. And I'm not exaggerating. They even went so far as to call Fox News "woke". 03-lmfao They were bashing everyone and their mother with the dog whistle, so much so I'm all but positive that must have been the channel that gave birth to it.

Now, let me repost what I wrote earlier in a response because it gets to the meat of the matter. Can any Trump-type respond to this? If woke-ism is a serious thing, then explain what I wrote below. Do you deny this is actually happening?!

The racism I experienced was almost completely in private, not out in public. At school or anywhere in public, it was extremely rare... But in private, it was completely different. It's almost like a split personality issue. A person can act one way behind closed doors with his friends and family (acting almost like a member of the KKK), and act TOTALLY different in public when dealing with blacks (almost like they are a die-hard liberal). THAT is what I experienced while growing up, and today especially among the Trump-types, I see no difference at all. And isn't this what CRT is trying to address?!

This matters because although it isn't seen in public, it does come out indirectly and have very harmful effects to society, like in our judicial system and completely explains the problem with many policy departments. It effects under the surface decision making, even though it's not always apparent at the surface.


Anyone care to respond?
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2021 01:47 PM by scorpius.)
07-19-2021 01:43 PM
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Was SoMs Eagle Offline
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Post: #44
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-16-2021 11:13 PM)scorpius Wrote:  Okay I'm not kidding here. This is all true.

I finally figured out what "woke" means. Up until now it sounded like something to do with Star Wars and the "wookie". Why did the far-right all of a sudden have so much of a wookie fascination to turn it into a dog whistle?!

Previously I had heard Trump awkwardly use this new dog whistle during his first rally as ex-president about a month ago. Sounded like he didn't even know what it meant. But it seemed to excite the crowd, so he used it.

Then tonight my tv accidentally got left on Newsmax. They were using the "woke" dog whistle every other sentence. So much so I could get a "fix" on a definition. It basically means anyone fighting against structural white superiority in society. You'd naturally think this is a good thing. But obviously not to a white supremacist. That's why they made the dog whistle to ridicule the idea, trying to brainwash people into believing somehow there isn't structural white superiority in society. 03-lmfao I mean how can there be if anyone who thinks so is demonized as "woke".. which conjures the image of a wookie. 03-lmfao

Does this go back to the whole "critical race theory" idea? I can honestly say as a white guy growing up in the 70's and 80's, I was constantly being taught both directly and indirectly that there's something "superior" about being white over black. OF COURSE that still goes on. I know it for a fact because I "feel" it whenever I get around the Trump-types. So how exactly is it "bad" to fight against this structural racism?! It can NOT be good for society.

You prove it’s bullchit. I know a whole lot of blacks far superior in intelligence to your pasty white ass.
07-19-2021 02:01 PM
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Kyle Mack Offline
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Post: #45
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-19-2021 01:43 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(07-18-2021 11:49 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-18-2021 02:11 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(07-18-2021 11:26 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Woke and wookies and dog whistles?
You're even nuttier than I thought.
No.. it just goes to show you how childish these dog whistles from the right appear to me and most normal people. 03-shhhh

A dog whistle is by definition at a frequency that is heard only by dogs. If the dog whistle analogy were appropriate, you wouldn't hear it.

Didn't you read my original post? The meaning of it made no sense to me even when a Trump-type friend tried to explain it to me until I made a conscious effort to spend 10 minutes listening to Newsmax where they literally used it every other sentence. And I'm not exaggerating. They even went so far as to call Fox News "woke". 03-lmfao They were bashing everyone and their mother with the dog whistle, so much so I'm all but positive that must have been the channel that gave birth to it.

Now, let me repost what I wrote earlier in a response because it gets to the meat of the matter. Can any Trump-type respond to this? If woke-ism is a serious thing, then explain what I wrote below. Do you deny this is actually happening?!

The racism I experienced was almost completely in private, not out in public. At school or anywhere in public, it was extremely rare... But in private, it was completely different. It's almost like a split personality issue. A person can act one way behind closed doors with his friends and family (acting almost like a member of the KKK), and act TOTALLY different in public when dealing with blacks (almost like they are a die-hard liberal). THAT is what I experienced while growing up, and today especially among the Trump-types, I see no difference at all. [b]And isn't this what CRT is trying to address?!

This matters because although it isn't seen in public, it does come out indirectly and have very harmful effects to society, like in our judicial system and completely explains the problem with many policy departments. It effects under the surface decision making, even though it's not always apparent at the surface.[/b]

Anyone care to respond?
Watch the video I posted. CRT is about destroying liberalism, Western Civ., The Enlightenment, Constitution etc. The neo Marxists just use race as opposed to class as their leverage.

CRT is the polar opposite of equality under the law. I a sure whites would be stunned if they could secretly record some of the conversations that happen at "the cookout" on Sunday, so what.
07-19-2021 02:44 PM
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scorpius Offline
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Post: #46
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-19-2021 02:44 PM)Kyle Mack Wrote:  Watch the video I posted. CRT is about destroying liberalism, Western Civ., The Enlightenment, Constitution etc. The neo Marxists just use race as opposed to class as their leverage.

CRT is the polar opposite of equality under the law. I a sure whites would be stunned if they could secretly record some of the conversations that happen at "the cookout" on Sunday, so what.

I completely agree with you blacks are no different than whites when it comes to racism. We are all human and thus subject to the same human nature. But that doesn't hide the fact that minorities are the ones being oppressed by this at this time. My only argument to CRT is only to the extent that it is not applied equally to all races. It's called "Critical Race Theory", not "Critical White Race Theory". So in theory it should apply to all races. That's what we should be "woke" about.. not "woke" to joking about it and thus not taking it seriously.
07-19-2021 03:04 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #47
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
"It's called "Critical Race Theory", not "Critical White Race Theory". So in theory it should apply to all races. That's what we should be "woke" about.. not "woke" to joking about it and thus not taking it seriously."

Jeepers you are one ignorant person. CRT isn't telling blacks that they are evil and the oppressors is it? No, little man it's telling just the opposite. Wow, how I wish that one day you would open your eyes, it seems ol' Beelzebub's got you in his clutches. By the way, you're white I presume, how does it feel to be the oppressor? Or, are you immune?
07-19-2021 06:51 PM
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BlueDragon Offline
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Post: #48
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-19-2021 03:04 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 02:44 PM)Kyle Mack Wrote:  Watch the video I posted. CRT is about destroying liberalism, Western Civ., The Enlightenment, Constitution etc. The neo Marxists just use race as opposed to class as their leverage.

CRT is the polar opposite of equality under the law. I a sure whites would be stunned if they could secretly record some of the conversations that happen at "the cookout" on Sunday, so what.

I completely agree with you blacks are no different than whites when it comes to racism. We are all human and thus subject to the same human nature. But that doesn't hide the fact that minorities are the ones being oppressed by this at this time. My only argument to CRT is only to the extent that it is not applied equally to all races. It's called "Critical Race Theory", not "Critical White Race Theory". So in theory it should apply to all races. That's what we should be "woke" about.. not "woke" to joking about it and thus not taking it seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49fz_WKBrXo&t=12s

Watch this video instead
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2021 08:54 PM by BlueDragon.)
07-19-2021 08:54 PM
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Post: #49
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-19-2021 03:04 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 02:44 PM)Kyle Mack Wrote:  Watch the video I posted. CRT is about destroying liberalism, Western Civ., The Enlightenment, Constitution etc. The neo Marxists just use race as opposed to class as their leverage.

CRT is the polar opposite of equality under the law. I a sure whites would be stunned if they could secretly record some of the conversations that happen at "the cookout" on Sunday, so what.

I completely agree with you blacks are no different than whites when it comes to racism. We are all human and thus subject to the same human nature. But that doesn't hide the fact that minorities are the ones being oppressed by this at this time. My only argument to CRT is only to the extent that it is not applied equally to all races. It's called "Critical Race Theory", not "Critical White Race Theory". So in theory it should apply to all races. That's what we should be "woke" about.. not "woke" to joking about it and thus not taking it seriously.

Ding ding ding winner winner Chicken Dinner. Every white person in the US will be attacked because of this grossly ignorant racist dogma. Its pathetic and shameful and just breeds more hate and dissension. It does absolutely nothing to bring folks together. Just the opposite.

Do yourself a favor and get out more and meet people of all backgrounds and God's sake turn off CNN and other media outlets. Its turning your brain to mush.

I'll bet you believe the every person in the South owned slaves as well. I also bet you believe the war was fought over slavery as the primary reason even though the first mention of slavery was over a year after the war begin. Did you have any idea that Abraham Lincoln wanted to send every black person in America to Africa, South America and the Caribbean for a new start? These are things the media is never forth right about.
07-19-2021 09:10 PM
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Kyle Mack Offline
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Post: #50
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-19-2021 03:04 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 02:44 PM)Kyle Mack Wrote:  Watch the video I posted. CRT is about destroying liberalism, Western Civ., The Enlightenment, Constitution etc. The neo Marxists just use race as opposed to class as their leverage.

CRT is the polar opposite of equality under the law. I a sure whites would be stunned if they could secretly record some of the conversations that happen at "the cookout" on Sunday, so what.

I completely agree with you blacks are no different than whites when it comes to racism. We are all human and thus subject to the same human nature. But that doesn't hide the fact that minorities are the ones being oppressed by this at this time. My only argument to CRT is only to the extent that it is not applied equally to all races. It's called "Critical Race Theory", not "Critical White Race Theory". So in theory it should apply to all races. That's what we should be "woke" about.. not "woke" to joking about it and thus not taking it seriously.
That is total BS. And there are plenty of places where "whites" are a minority.
07-20-2021 05:28 AM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #51
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-19-2021 03:04 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 02:44 PM)Kyle Mack Wrote:  Watch the video I posted. CRT is about destroying liberalism, Western Civ., The Enlightenment, Constitution etc. The neo Marxists just use race as opposed to class as their leverage.

CRT is the polar opposite of equality under the law. I a sure whites would be stunned if they could secretly record some of the conversations that happen at "the cookout" on Sunday, so what.

I completely agree with you blacks are no different than whites when it comes to racism. We are all human and thus subject to the same human nature. But that doesn't hide the fact that minorities are the ones being oppressed by this at this time. My only argument to CRT is only to the extent that it is not applied equally to all races. It's called "Critical Race Theory", not "Critical White Race Theory". So in theory it should apply to all races. That's what we should be "woke" about.. not "woke" to joking about it and thus not taking it seriously.

How woke of you. Now go seek atonement elsewhere. That whole paragraph is utter bull**** you loon. Too much nonsense to even warrant a response.
(This post was last modified: 07-20-2021 07:00 AM by shere khan.)
07-20-2021 07:00 AM
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scorpius Offline
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Post: #52
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-19-2021 06:51 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  CRT isn't telling blacks that they are evil and the oppressors is it?

All it does is bring to light what goes on in society so we can better deal with the problem going forward. We can't very well apply it to blacks or whatever race when needed if we don't understand the problem in the first place.

You're effectively trying to use the same flawed logic as someone who thinks "Black Lives Matter" means that white lives do not matter. You're twisting it to try to discount the original purpose and intent.

(07-19-2021 09:10 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Ding ding ding winner winner Chicken Dinner. Every white person in the US will be attacked because of this grossly ignorant racist dogma. Its pathetic and shameful and just breeds more hate and dissension. It does absolutely nothing to bring folks together. Just the opposite.

The only ones attacking white people like you describe are the ones using the childish dog whistle of "woke" to insult and discredit those trying to solve this very real structural racism problem.

I always knew it was a problem. I didn't need CRT to tell me what I already knew was going on. Like I said earlier, I saw it first hand while growing up and still see it today among the Trump-types in private. Trying to deny it and create stupid dog whistles against it isn't going to make the problem go away. Society as a whole has had enough of it and will solve it one way or another, just like what's happening with the LGBTQ community and other historically oppressed groups. So what's the point in trying to fight it, other than to stand proud on the wrong side of history?

Quote:Do yourself a favor and get out more and meet people of all backgrounds and God's sake turn off CNN and other media outlets. Its turning your brain to mush.

You do realize I've been to all 50 states, close to 40 different countries and 5 continents? (6 if you count Canary Islands as part of Africa)

Quote:I'll bet you believe the every person in the South owned slaves as well. I also bet you believe the war was fought over slavery as the primary reason even though the first mention of slavery was over a year after the war begin. Did you have any idea that Abraham Lincoln wanted to send every black person in America to Africa, South America and the Caribbean for a new start? These are things the media is never forth right about.

Okay, so I was right! In schools in the south, they do try to hide the importance of slavery as the cause of the Civil War in order to try to make slavery sound less bad and to feel better about their history. Fact of the matter is, without slavery, there is no Civil War. No matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it's not going to change that fact. So what is the motivation to hide it? THAT is what CRT addresses.
(This post was last modified: 07-20-2021 08:26 PM by scorpius.)
07-20-2021 08:23 PM
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Post: #53
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-20-2021 08:23 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 06:51 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  CRT isn't telling blacks that they are evil and the oppressors is it?

All it does is bring to light what goes on in society so we can better deal with the problem going forward. We can't very well apply it to blacks or whatever race when needed if we don't understand the problem in the first place.

You're effectively trying to use the same flawed logic as someone who thinks "Black Lives Matter" means that white lives do not matter. You're twisting it to try to discount the original purpose and intent.

(07-19-2021 09:10 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Ding ding ding winner winner Chicken Dinner. Every white person in the US will be attacked because of this grossly ignorant racist dogma. Its pathetic and shameful and just breeds more hate and dissension. It does absolutely nothing to bring folks together. Just the opposite.

The only ones attacking white people like you describe are the ones using the childish dog whistle of "woke" to insult and discredit those trying to solve this very real structural racism problem.

I always knew it was a problem. I didn't need CRT to tell me what I already knew was going on. Like I said earlier, I saw it first hand while growing up and still see it today among the Trump-types in private. Trying to deny it and create stupid dog whistles against it isn't going to make the problem go away. Society as a whole has had enough of it and will solve it one way or another, just like what's happening with the LGBTQ community and other historically oppressed groups. So what's the point in trying to fight it, other than to stand proud on the wrong side of history?

Quote:Do yourself a favor and get out more and meet people of all backgrounds and God's sake turn off CNN and other media outlets. Its turning your brain to mush.

You do realize I've been to all 50 states, close to 40 different countries and 5 continents? (6 if you count Canary Islands as part of Africa)

Quote:I'll bet you believe the every person in the South owned slaves as well. I also bet you believe the war was fought over slavery as the primary reason even though the first mention of slavery was over a year after the war begin. Did you have any idea that Abraham Lincoln wanted to send every black person in America to Africa, South America and the Caribbean for a new start? These are things the media is never forth right about.

Okay, so I was right! In schools in the south, they do try to hide the importance of slavery as the cause of the Civil War in order to try to make slavery sound less bad and to feel better about their history. Fact of the matter is, without slavery, there is no Civil War. No matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it's not going to change that fact. So what is the motivation to hide it? THAT is what CRT addresses.


Why don’t you do us all a favor and learn as much about CRT as you can and then report back to us on your findings.

As far as the RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY whatever clown came up with this term obviously is NOT a person understands history. Everything you and your Regressive clods are doing has one goal in mind. Tear down the family unit. Those who keep the family unit together will be here tomorrow to discuss history and they will be on the right side of history.

Ancient Rome gives us this example. What did they find in the bath houses at Pompeii? Surely if you are world traveler you see what decadent folks do to society.

The war was like every other war fought over money. I know you are self righteous and laden with guilt but these are facts. Did slavery and states rights play a large part? Yes. But, I promise you no one would send their son anywhere in battle to end slavery knowing he may not come home. You are idiot to believe otherwise. It’s a nice thought but mankind is not wired that way. China presently uses slave labor. Where is the US soldiers to go end it? Slaves? Yes too many sources to refute it.

Finally, only a very small percentage of people in South owned slaves. So why would they fight so hard to keep an institution that was no benefit to them? The people in my family that fought for the Confederacy were share croppers and owned land. They fought for their possessions they worked their whole life for fearing it would be taken away. Real life not your fantasy land.
07-20-2021 09:22 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #54
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
Spokecrius being a world traveler and seeing so many places just qualified him as a "genuine White Supremacist". Only someone with a lot of dough...or his parents dough could have managed that. He is so Supremacist that the Supremes are jealous of him. How's it feel to be so guilty? Just don't suicide yourself from the guilt, okay?
07-20-2021 09:31 PM
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Post: #55
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-20-2021 09:22 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 08:23 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 06:51 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  CRT isn't telling blacks that they are evil and the oppressors is it?

All it does is bring to light what goes on in society so we can better deal with the problem going forward. We can't very well apply it to blacks or whatever race when needed if we don't understand the problem in the first place.

You're effectively trying to use the same flawed logic as someone who thinks "Black Lives Matter" means that white lives do not matter. You're twisting it to try to discount the original purpose and intent.

(07-19-2021 09:10 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Ding ding ding winner winner Chicken Dinner. Every white person in the US will be attacked because of this grossly ignorant racist dogma. Its pathetic and shameful and just breeds more hate and dissension. It does absolutely nothing to bring folks together. Just the opposite.

The only ones attacking white people like you describe are the ones using the childish dog whistle of "woke" to insult and discredit those trying to solve this very real structural racism problem.

I always knew it was a problem. I didn't need CRT to tell me what I already knew was going on. Like I said earlier, I saw it first hand while growing up and still see it today among the Trump-types in private. Trying to deny it and create stupid dog whistles against it isn't going to make the problem go away. Society as a whole has had enough of it and will solve it one way or another, just like what's happening with the LGBTQ community and other historically oppressed groups. So what's the point in trying to fight it, other than to stand proud on the wrong side of history?

Quote:Do yourself a favor and get out more and meet people of all backgrounds and God's sake turn off CNN and other media outlets. Its turning your brain to mush.

You do realize I've been to all 50 states, close to 40 different countries and 5 continents? (6 if you count Canary Islands as part of Africa)

Quote:I'll bet you believe the every person in the South owned slaves as well. I also bet you believe the war was fought over slavery as the primary reason even though the first mention of slavery was over a year after the war begin. Did you have any idea that Abraham Lincoln wanted to send every black person in America to Africa, South America and the Caribbean for a new start? These are things the media is never forth right about.

Okay, so I was right! In schools in the south, they do try to hide the importance of slavery as the cause of the Civil War in order to try to make slavery sound less bad and to feel better about their history. Fact of the matter is, without slavery, there is no Civil War. No matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it's not going to change that fact. So what is the motivation to hide it? THAT is what CRT addresses.


Why don’t you do us all a favor and learn as much about CRT as you can and then report back to us on your findings.

As far as the RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY whatever clown came up with this term obviously is NOT a person understands history. Everything you and your Regressive clods are doing has one goal in mind. Tear down the family unit. Those who keep the family unit together will be here tomorrow to discuss history and they will be on the right side of history.

Ancient Rome gives us this example. What did they find in the bath houses at Pompeii? Surely if you are world traveler you see what decadent folks do to society.

The war was like every other war fought over money. I know you are self righteous and laden with guilt but these are facts. Did slavery and states rights play a large part? Yes. But, I promise you no one would send their son anywhere in battle to end slavery knowing he may not come home. You are idiot to believe otherwise. It’s a nice thought but mankind is not wired that way. China presently uses slave labor. Where is the US soldiers to go end it? Slaves? Yes too many sources to refute it.

Finally, only a very small percentage of people in South owned slaves. So why would they fight so hard to keep an institution that was no benefit to them? The people in my family that fought for the Confederacy were share croppers and owned land. They fought for their possessions they worked their whole life for fearing it would be taken away. Real life not your fantasy land.

To your last question: You don’t have to be in direct ownership of something to end up fighting for it. In fact, the people who have to do the hardest fighting in any war almost never have skin in the game.

Also, it is true that a relatively small amount of people owned slaves, but it is also true that 30% of Virginia, 20% of Kentucky, 25% of Tennessee, 45% of Georgia, 33% of NC, 45% of Alabama, 55% of Mississippi, 47% of Louisiana, 57% of SC, 30% of Texas, and almost 26% of Arkansas were enslaved. That means that even if your immediate family didn’t own a slave, the practice was so ubiquitous that they knew that the fall of the institution would probably leave them and everyone like them in ruin.
07-20-2021 09:48 PM
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BlueDragon Offline
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Post: #56
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-20-2021 09:48 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 09:22 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 08:23 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 06:51 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  CRT isn't telling blacks that they are evil and the oppressors is it?

All it does is bring to light what goes on in society so we can better deal with the problem going forward. We can't very well apply it to blacks or whatever race when needed if we don't understand the problem in the first place.

You're effectively trying to use the same flawed logic as someone who thinks "Black Lives Matter" means that white lives do not matter. You're twisting it to try to discount the original purpose and intent.

(07-19-2021 09:10 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Ding ding ding winner winner Chicken Dinner. Every white person in the US will be attacked because of this grossly ignorant racist dogma. Its pathetic and shameful and just breeds more hate and dissension. It does absolutely nothing to bring folks together. Just the opposite.

The only ones attacking white people like you describe are the ones using the childish dog whistle of "woke" to insult and discredit those trying to solve this very real structural racism problem.

I always knew it was a problem. I didn't need CRT to tell me what I already knew was going on. Like I said earlier, I saw it first hand while growing up and still see it today among the Trump-types in private. Trying to deny it and create stupid dog whistles against it isn't going to make the problem go away. Society as a whole has had enough of it and will solve it one way or another, just like what's happening with the LGBTQ community and other historically oppressed groups. So what's the point in trying to fight it, other than to stand proud on the wrong side of history?

Quote:Do yourself a favor and get out more and meet people of all backgrounds and God's sake turn off CNN and other media outlets. Its turning your brain to mush.

You do realize I've been to all 50 states, close to 40 different countries and 5 continents? (6 if you count Canary Islands as part of Africa)

Quote:I'll bet you believe the every person in the South owned slaves as well. I also bet you believe the war was fought over slavery as the primary reason even though the first mention of slavery was over a year after the war begin. Did you have any idea that Abraham Lincoln wanted to send every black person in America to Africa, South America and the Caribbean for a new start? These are things the media is never forth right about.

Okay, so I was right! In schools in the south, they do try to hide the importance of slavery as the cause of the Civil War in order to try to make slavery sound less bad and to feel better about their history. Fact of the matter is, without slavery, there is no Civil War. No matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it's not going to change that fact. So what is the motivation to hide it? THAT is what CRT addresses.


Why don’t you do us all a favor and learn as much about CRT as you can and then report back to us on your findings.

As far as the RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY whatever clown came up with this term obviously is NOT a person understands history. Everything you and your Regressive clods are doing has one goal in mind. Tear down the family unit. Those who keep the family unit together will be here tomorrow to discuss history and they will be on the right side of history.

Ancient Rome gives us this example. What did they find in the bath houses at Pompeii? Surely if you are world traveler you see what decadent folks do to society.

The war was like every other war fought over money. I know you are self righteous and laden with guilt but these are facts. Did slavery and states rights play a large part? Yes. But, I promise you no one would send their son anywhere in battle to end slavery knowing he may not come home. You are idiot to believe otherwise. It’s a nice thought but mankind is not wired that way. China presently uses slave labor. Where is the US soldiers to go end it? Slaves? Yes too many sources to refute it.

Finally, only a very small percentage of people in South owned slaves. So why would they fight so hard to keep an institution that was no benefit to them? The people in my family that fought for the Confederacy were share croppers and owned land. They fought for their possessions they worked their whole life for fearing it would be taken away. Real life not your fantasy land.

To your last question: You don’t have to be in direct ownership of something to end up fighting for it. In fact, the people who have to do the hardest fighting in any war almost never have skin in the game.

Also, it is true that a relatively small amount of people owned slaves, but it is also true that 30% of Virginia, 20% of Kentucky, 25% of Tennessee, 45% of Georgia, 33% of NC, 45% of Alabama, 55% of Mississippi, 47% of Louisiana, 57% of SC, 30% of Texas, and almost 26% of Arkansas were enslaved. That means that even if your immediate family didn’t own a slave, the practice was so ubiquitous that they knew that the fall of the institution would probably leave them and everyone like them in ruin.


Your numbers don’t reflect what the 1860 Census reported. Way too high.

Where did you get your numbers?
07-20-2021 10:08 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-20-2021 10:08 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 09:48 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 09:22 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 08:23 PM)scorpius Wrote:  
(07-19-2021 06:51 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  CRT isn't telling blacks that they are evil and the oppressors is it?

All it does is bring to light what goes on in society so we can better deal with the problem going forward. We can't very well apply it to blacks or whatever race when needed if we don't understand the problem in the first place.

You're effectively trying to use the same flawed logic as someone who thinks "Black Lives Matter" means that white lives do not matter. You're twisting it to try to discount the original purpose and intent.

(07-19-2021 09:10 PM)BlueDragon Wrote:  Ding ding ding winner winner Chicken Dinner. Every white person in the US will be attacked because of this grossly ignorant racist dogma. Its pathetic and shameful and just breeds more hate and dissension. It does absolutely nothing to bring folks together. Just the opposite.

The only ones attacking white people like you describe are the ones using the childish dog whistle of "woke" to insult and discredit those trying to solve this very real structural racism problem.

I always knew it was a problem. I didn't need CRT to tell me what I already knew was going on. Like I said earlier, I saw it first hand while growing up and still see it today among the Trump-types in private. Trying to deny it and create stupid dog whistles against it isn't going to make the problem go away. Society as a whole has had enough of it and will solve it one way or another, just like what's happening with the LGBTQ community and other historically oppressed groups. So what's the point in trying to fight it, other than to stand proud on the wrong side of history?

Quote:Do yourself a favor and get out more and meet people of all backgrounds and God's sake turn off CNN and other media outlets. Its turning your brain to mush.

You do realize I've been to all 50 states, close to 40 different countries and 5 continents? (6 if you count Canary Islands as part of Africa)

Quote:I'll bet you believe the every person in the South owned slaves as well. I also bet you believe the war was fought over slavery as the primary reason even though the first mention of slavery was over a year after the war begin. Did you have any idea that Abraham Lincoln wanted to send every black person in America to Africa, South America and the Caribbean for a new start? These are things the media is never forth right about.

Okay, so I was right! In schools in the south, they do try to hide the importance of slavery as the cause of the Civil War in order to try to make slavery sound less bad and to feel better about their history. Fact of the matter is, without slavery, there is no Civil War. No matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it's not going to change that fact. So what is the motivation to hide it? THAT is what CRT addresses.


Why don’t you do us all a favor and learn as much about CRT as you can and then report back to us on your findings.

As far as the RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY whatever clown came up with this term obviously is NOT a person understands history. Everything you and your Regressive clods are doing has one goal in mind. Tear down the family unit. Those who keep the family unit together will be here tomorrow to discuss history and they will be on the right side of history.

Ancient Rome gives us this example. What did they find in the bath houses at Pompeii? Surely if you are world traveler you see what decadent folks do to society.

The war was like every other war fought over money. I know you are self righteous and laden with guilt but these are facts. Did slavery and states rights play a large part? Yes. But, I promise you no one would send their son anywhere in battle to end slavery knowing he may not come home. You are idiot to believe otherwise. It’s a nice thought but mankind is not wired that way. China presently uses slave labor. Where is the US soldiers to go end it? Slaves? Yes too many sources to refute it.

Finally, only a very small percentage of people in South owned slaves. So why would they fight so hard to keep an institution that was no benefit to them? The people in my family that fought for the Confederacy were share croppers and owned land. They fought for their possessions they worked their whole life for fearing it would be taken away. Real life not your fantasy land.

To your last question: You don’t have to be in direct ownership of something to end up fighting for it. In fact, the people who have to do the hardest fighting in any war almost never have skin in the game.

Also, it is true that a relatively small amount of people owned slaves, but it is also true that 30% of Virginia, 20% of Kentucky, 25% of Tennessee, 45% of Georgia, 33% of NC, 45% of Alabama, 55% of Mississippi, 47% of Louisiana, 57% of SC, 30% of Texas, and almost 26% of Arkansas were enslaved. That means that even if your immediate family didn’t own a slave, the practice was so ubiquitous that they knew that the fall of the institution would probably leave them and everyone like them in ruin.


Your numbers don’t reflect what the 1860 Census reported. Way too high.

Where did you get your numbers?

The 1860 census.
07-20-2021 10:10 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #58
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-20-2021 09:48 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  To your last question: You don’t have to be in direct ownership of something to end up fighting for it. In fact, the people who have to do the hardest fighting in any war almost never have skin in the game.

Also, it is true that a relatively small amount of people owned slaves, but it is also true that 30% of Virginia, 20% of Kentucky, 25% of Tennessee, 45% of Georgia, 33% of NC, 45% of Alabama, 55% of Mississippi, 47% of Louisiana, 57% of SC, 30% of Texas, and almost 26% of Arkansas were enslaved. That means that even if your immediate family didn’t own a slave, the practice was so ubiquitous that they knew that the fall of the institution would probably leave them and everyone like them in ruin.



Its always a far more complicated issue than people portray it as in politics.

Ironically the south was a slave to slavery in a sense. They had no economy without it, which was a failure of local governments and the federal government. And so many people of all colors paid for that with their lives and massive human suffering. Generations of black children continued to pay the price.

The horrors of the civil war and slavery might have been averted much earlier if they could have changed the dependence on slavery and sharecropping to a more industrial economy. I don't know that it would have brought about civil rights for African Americans any faster, but perhaps slavery could have been stomped out faster.

I think a lot of people don't realize how much slavery still exists today in some regions of the world. We have eliminated it in our culture and much of Europe, but its still a massive issue in other parts of the world.

The left obsesses over the mistakes of America but the reality is America today is the most diverse nation of all time, and grants more liberty, freedom, oppertunity and equality that any major nation in human history. For some reason the left is incapable of celebrating our amazing accomplishments as we continue to grow and improve. Instead of seeing something worth cherishing and celebrating, they can only see something they need to tear down.
(This post was last modified: 07-20-2021 10:19 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
07-20-2021 10:16 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-20-2021 10:16 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(07-20-2021 09:48 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  To your last question: You don’t have to be in direct ownership of something to end up fighting for it. In fact, the people who have to do the hardest fighting in any war almost never have skin in the game.

Also, it is true that a relatively small amount of people owned slaves, but it is also true that 30% of Virginia, 20% of Kentucky, 25% of Tennessee, 45% of Georgia, 33% of NC, 45% of Alabama, 55% of Mississippi, 47% of Louisiana, 57% of SC, 30% of Texas, and almost 26% of Arkansas were enslaved. That means that even if your immediate family didn’t own a slave, the practice was so ubiquitous that they knew that the fall of the institution would probably leave them and everyone like them in ruin.



Its always a far more complicated issue than people portray it as in politics.

Ironically the south was a slave to slavery in a sense. They had no economy without it, which was a failure of local governments and the federal government. And so many people of all colors paid for that with their lives and massive human suffering. Generations of black children continued to pay the price.

The horrors of the civil war and slavery might have been averted much earlier if they could have changed the dependence on slavery and sharecropping to a more industrial economy. I don't know that it would have brought about civil rights for African Americans any faster, but perhaps slavery could have been stomped out faster.

I think a lot of people don't realize how much slavery still exists today in some regions of the world. We have eliminated it in our culture and much of Europe, but its still a massive issue in other parts of the world.

The left obsesses over the mistakes of America but the reality is America today is the most diverse nation of all time, and grants more liberty, freedom, oppertunity and equality that any major nation in human history. For some reason the left is incapable of celebrating our amazing accomplishments as we continue to grow and improve. Instead of seeing something worth cherishing and celebrating, they can only see something they need to tear down.

It’s two sided, I agree that the left finds it real hard to celebrate the improvements, but I also think the right finds it hard to recognize any criticisms as potentially valid. I recognize it as people being people (set in the ways and tribal).
07-20-2021 10:29 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #60
RE: The "WOKE" dog whistle
(07-20-2021 09:48 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  To your last question: You don’t have to be in direct ownership of something to end up fighting for it. In fact, the people who have to do the hardest fighting in any war almost never have skin in the game.

Also, it is true that a relatively small amount of people owned slaves, but it is also true that 30% of Virginia, 20% of Kentucky, 25% of Tennessee, 45% of Georgia, 33% of NC, 45% of Alabama, 55% of Mississippi, 47% of Louisiana, 57% of SC, 30% of Texas, and almost 26% of Arkansas were enslaved. That means that even if your immediate family didn’t own a slave, the practice was so ubiquitous that they knew that the fall of the institution would probably leave them and everyone like them in ruin.



Quoting raw numbers on an issue like this is very problematic. Not that you should not share them, you absolutely should, but to just quote numbers and then (as most people do) label slave owners in that society as evil and all the connotations that come along with that is troublesome.

Any time we apply our modern values and judgments to a different society in history we are being unfair to them on several levels. People are a product of the time and culture they came from, and their values are a direct product of their time and their culture. And even free people are in a sense slaves to the world and time they live in.

We can certainly judge that slavery and discrimination is wrong and have no tolerance for it in our time and society, but judging others who grew up and lived in the 1800's is not really fair to those people because they are trapped in a completely different world and time than we are. Those people are a product of their period, their values and the limitations of their world and society. Did all those people really have options to not own slaves and still be able to run their businesses and survive in that economy and world? Did they have actual realistic alternatives? In most cases they did not. Not only were no different economic alternatives available, there was no safety net as their is in modern times.

That does not make slavery any less wrong or disgusting, but as already stated its a very complicated issue, far more than most admit or think about today. Today everyone just wants to think themselves virtuous and superior and find ways to judge others.
(This post was last modified: 07-20-2021 11:00 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
07-20-2021 10:42 PM
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