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Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
Enrollment has fallen in the PASSHE schools (Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education) by more than 20% since 2010.

The schools will keep their athletic teams, for now.

https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/news/20...2-map.html
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2021 09:25 PM by DFW HOYA.)
07-14-2021 09:23 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
Good catch DFW Hoya!! I have been following this for awhile on the D2 board and it is definitely interesting!!! Some schools you really have to feel for, while others, not so much.

Thankfully, IUP, WCUP, and SRU are NOT a part of this!!!
07-15-2021 11:22 AM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
FBS/FCS dreams crushed!
07-15-2021 02:11 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
Forget about their FBS aspirations, those campuses are not going to exist in 5-10 years. This is clearly a preliminary step.

There are lots of reasons for this happening. Chief among them is the fact that Pennsylvania’s population has declined quite a bit in the past half century.

However, another really big factor here is Penn State and to a lesser extent Pitt. They run all of these expensive branch campuses and they just run these smaller, more affordable state schools right into the ground.

I’m fine with the current plan and I’m realistic enough to know that this is just the first step in a multi-phase plan to downsize the number of universities offered through the state system. However, let’s make sure that we protect the surviving state system going forward or we will live to regret it.
07-15-2021 04:44 PM
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goofus Online
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
I predict the state of Illinois will have to something like this next with their downstate schools soon.

Could WIU, EIU, SIU possibly be combined into 1 school?
07-15-2021 05:12 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
(07-15-2021 02:11 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  FBS/FCS dreams crushed!

Nope!!!! Sorry to crush your dreams of P5 superiority..... NOT!!!!

Better luck next time Washington Huskie!!!
07-15-2021 06:19 PM
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dbackjon Online
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
(07-15-2021 05:12 PM)goofus Wrote:  I predict the state of Illinois will have to something like this next with their downstate schools soon.

Could WIU, EIU, SIU possibly be combined into 1 school?

Dynamics and distance make that unlikely
07-15-2021 06:20 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
(07-15-2021 05:12 PM)goofus Wrote:  I predict the state of Illinois will have to something like this next with their downstate schools soon.

Could WIU, EIU, SIU possibly be combined into 1 school?

Illinois Compass University
07-15-2021 08:45 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
(07-15-2021 04:44 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Forget about their FBS aspirations, those campuses are not going to exist in 5-10 years. This is clearly a preliminary step.

There are lots of reasons for this happening. Chief among them is the fact that Pennsylvania’s population has declined quite a bit in the past half century.

However, another really big factor here is Penn State and to a lesser extent Pitt. They run all of these expensive branch campuses and they just run these smaller, more affordable state schools right into the ground.

I’m fine with the current plan and I’m realistic enough to know that this is just the first step in a multi-phase plan to downsize the number of universities offered through the state system. However, let’s make sure that we protect the surviving state system going forward or we will live to regret it.

If you are a doctor in real life sir, I am sure that you have a great deal of knowledge, and I won't treat you like I did double RSU. But, the campuses that are being referred in this integration never had FBS/FCS aspirations to begin with. Of the six that are going through these mergers, I only mentioned one as an FCS possibility because it had a rivalry with IUP (one of the campuses that Pennsylvania state legislators made sure to spare from this integration/consolidation.

Penn State does have waayyy too many branch campuses that a lot of them should have been made into jucos, IMO. Penn State does have two legitimate branch campuses, so I would leave those two alone. As for Pittsburgh's branches, they are going to have to look if it is worth it keeping them open, or just a couple, or one, or none. I really don't know the answer Dr. Yinzer, so I throw all of those options out there on the table. I don't see Pittsburgh being as much responsible as PSU though, to be honest with you.

Of the PASSHE schools, I see IUP, West Chester, Slippery Rock, the main campus of the northern conglomerate of PASSHE schools, the western conglomerate of PASSHE schools, and quite a few others surviving. But I also see some PASSHE campuses being closed as well. (There are fourteen in all).

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07-15-2021 11:25 PM
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LostInSpace Offline
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
PSU branch campuses are experiencing enrollment decline proportionately similar to PASSHE. Harrisburg, like West Chester, is the only PSU branch campus that has had significant enrollment growth over the past decade. Most PSU campuses have experienced 30%+ enrollment decline over the past decade.

Defunding of both systems by the state is the other major reason than declining school age population that both systems are hemorrhaging enrollment. They’ve radically increased tuition to make up for the 52% decline in state funding per student. Both systems predominately serve families with less than $100k household income and those families are getting priced out of both systems. West Chester’s secret sauce is enrolling students from families as affluent as those attending PSU Main Campus.

Those two systems losses are out of state universities’ gain. Youngstown State started offering near in-state tuition to western PA residents and now 10% of YSU’s enrollment is from PA.
07-16-2021 02:19 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
(07-15-2021 04:44 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Forget about their FBS aspirations, those campuses are not going to exist in 5-10 years. This is clearly a preliminary step.

There are lots of reasons for this happening. Chief among them is the fact that Pennsylvania’s population has declined quite a bit in the past half century.

However, another really big factor here is Penn State and to a lesser extent Pitt. They run all of these expensive branch campuses and they just run these smaller, more affordable state schools right into the ground.

I’m fine with the current plan and I’m realistic enough to know that this is just the first step in a multi-phase plan to downsize the number of universities offered through the state system. However, let’s make sure that we protect the surviving state system going forward or we will live to regret it.


It's mostly due to four things:
1) a decreasing percent of high school graduates going to college (down over 5% since 2016)
2) decreasing enrollment of foreign students (down 11% from 2015-2019 and another 16% in 2020)
3) increasing enrollment at online colleges (particularly among older non-traditional students)
4) increasing enrollment at flagships


Pennsylvania has actually gained population every single decade. There's 1.2 million more Pennsylvanians today than in 1970.
07-16-2021 02:32 PM
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
There is also flight to quality which hurts the less popular institutions.

Its like when a player has three FCS offers, two DII offers and one offer at a G5. Ninety percent of the time they'll pick the G5 its going to feel like more of a big time offer.

The same with attending a 20,000 enrollment state school over a struggling tiny college.
07-16-2021 03:25 PM
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HatterFan Online
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
There's a 130+ page thread in the PSAC room of the D2 forum (I'd link it, but perhaps the owner/mod of this forum wouldn't like driving clicks to somebody else's site) about this issue and it's been quite informative to follow it.

PA appears filled with wrongheaded attitudes in the legislature and all kinds of redundancies in the marketplace.
07-17-2021 09:00 AM
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TheOriginalBigApp Offline
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
(07-15-2021 05:12 PM)goofus Wrote:  I predict the state of Illinois will have to something like this next with their downstate schools soon.

Could WIU, EIU, SIU possibly be combined into 1 school?

they could, but that 200 mile walk from the 8am Biology class in Macomb to the 9am English Lit class in Charleston would be tough
07-17-2021 10:06 AM
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Frank the Tank Online
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
(07-15-2021 06:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(07-15-2021 05:12 PM)goofus Wrote:  I predict the state of Illinois will have to something like this next with their downstate schools soon.

Could WIU, EIU, SIU possibly be combined into 1 school?

Dynamics and distance make that unlikely

Agreed. You could have some consolidation of overall governance and administration, but those inherently are going to be separate campuses regardless of any umbrella board with how they serve such different regions.
07-17-2021 10:21 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
(07-17-2021 10:21 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(07-15-2021 06:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(07-15-2021 05:12 PM)goofus Wrote:  I predict the state of Illinois will have to something like this next with their downstate schools soon.

Could WIU, EIU, SIU possibly be combined into 1 school?

Dynamics and distance make that unlikely

Agreed. You could have some consolidation of overall governance and administration, but those inherently are going to be separate campuses regardless of any umbrella board with how they serve such different regions.

A thought I’ve had regarding Illinois schools is whether Chicago St is salvageable enough (and if Northern Illinois could/would make it happen) is for Chicago St to be a “branch” of Northern Illinois to become NIUC similarish to SIUE.
07-17-2021 04:37 PM
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
(07-17-2021 04:37 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(07-17-2021 10:21 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(07-15-2021 06:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(07-15-2021 05:12 PM)goofus Wrote:  I predict the state of Illinois will have to something like this next with their downstate schools soon.

Could WIU, EIU, SIU possibly be combined into 1 school?

Dynamics and distance make that unlikely

Agreed. You could have some consolidation of overall governance and administration, but those inherently are going to be separate campuses regardless of any umbrella board with how they serve such different regions.

A thought I’ve had regarding Illinois schools is whether Chicago St is salvageable enough (and if Northern Illinois could/would make it happen) is for Chicago St to be a “branch” of Northern Illinois to become NIUC similarish to SIUE.

More like NE Illinois or governors state
07-17-2021 10:33 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
If the schools are keeping their campuses and brand identities and sports teams, in what sense are the being "integrated" into a single university?
07-18-2021 01:18 AM
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VNova Offline
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
(07-18-2021 01:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  If the schools are keeping their campuses and brand identities and sports teams, in what sense are the being "integrated" into a single university?

The integration would be forcing each group of campuses to share the same administration staff instead of each university operating with their own.

The California University of Pennsylvania, Clarion University and Edinboro University Grouping would be about 17k students. The Bloomsburg University, Lock Haven University, and Mansfield University Grouping would be about 15k. For comparison, West Chester University, the largest in PASSHE, is around 17k students.
07-19-2021 07:44 PM
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RE: Six Div II Pennsylvania Schools Consolidated Into Two
(07-19-2021 07:44 PM)VNova Wrote:  
(07-18-2021 01:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  If the schools are keeping their campuses and brand identities and sports teams, in what sense are the being "integrated" into a single university?

The integration would be forcing each group of campuses to share the same administration staff instead of each university operating with their own.

The California University of Pennsylvania, Clarion University and Edinboro University Grouping would be about 17k students. The Bloomsburg University, Lock Haven University, and Mansfield University Grouping would be about 15k. For comparison, West Chester University, the largest in PASSHE, is around 17k students.

So IOWs, to me not a real integration at all. Just different schools being brought under the same administrative umbrella.
07-19-2021 09:01 PM
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