(08-12-2021 05:47 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: Oh, when the SEC gets into this game in full swing, it’s going to make even the most unscrupulous blush with what they will get away with. BYU knew this is where things are going with the potential split and they want to be on the correct side of the divide. They will be the trial balloon.
I thought this would be awful all along but I think I may have perhaps undershot the degree of potential awful for programs that don’t want to be relegated to the FCS Majors Division.
It's going to be the Wild West for five or six years. After that, there will be some national "call" to reign things in. At that point, it becomes pure pay for play. A kid at OSU or Alabama gets 100K plus his scholarship to play football for a couple of years before taking his shot at the NFL, while some successor to the NCAA mandates that each school only gets 100 "scholarships" to give out. NFL-Lite...pure minor league. Anywhere between 24 and 48 schools get to play it, and the rest can try and play "old school football" or just give it up entirely.
Actually, I see things going the other way.
At that point, the Presidents of the biggest universities start actually paying attention and realizing that this has nothing to do with their academic institution anymore. They debate cutting athletics loose completely, but ultimately they actually make it a priority to sit down and make a system that is all of the above: a) legal, b) restores the student-athlete concept, and c) restores power to the schools rather than the players.
in this day and age, that sounds like wishful thinking - but, one can always hold out hope for some sanity to (re)appear
It is wishful thinking
But I've long thought that the biggest problem in college sports is that university Presidents don't pay any attention to it.
They're running complex multibillion dollar organizations. They don't have the time to oversee a minor division that pays for itself (which it does at the schools that matter). They also lack the inclination; most Presidents are stuck-up nerds that don't want to dabble in athletics.
With no academic oversight, the ADs have been allowed to run amok. But power is ultimately held by the Presidents. They can retake control at any time. But they'll only bother to do so if athletics starts embarrassing the rest of the university.
The university Presidents are leading this charge. Just look at the nonsensical conference alignment activity that has already occurred for no reason other than money. Couldn't happen without the full involvement and blessing of the university Presidents.
(08-12-2021 09:45 PM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote: It's going to be the Wild West for five or six years. After that, there will be some national "call" to reign things in. At that point, it becomes pure pay for play. A kid at OSU or Alabama gets 100K plus his scholarship to play football for a couple of years before taking his shot at the NFL, while some successor to the NCAA mandates that each school only gets 100 "scholarships" to give out. NFL-Lite...pure minor league. Anywhere between 24 and 48 schools get to play it, and the rest can try and play "old school football" or just give it up entirely.
Actually, I see things going the other way.
At that point, the Presidents of the biggest universities start actually paying attention and realizing that this has nothing to do with their academic institution anymore. They debate cutting athletics loose completely, but ultimately they actually make it a priority to sit down and make a system that is all of the above: a) legal, b) restores the student-athlete concept, and c) restores power to the schools rather than the players.
in this day and age, that sounds like wishful thinking - but, one can always hold out hope for some sanity to (re)appear
It is wishful thinking
But I've long thought that the biggest problem in college sports is that university Presidents don't pay any attention to it.
They're running complex multibillion dollar organizations. They don't have the time to oversee a minor division that pays for itself (which it does at the schools that matter). They also lack the inclination; most Presidents are stuck-up nerds that don't want to dabble in athletics.
With no academic oversight, the ADs have been allowed to run amok. But power is ultimately held by the Presidents. They can retake control at any time. But they'll only bother to do so if athletics starts embarrassing the rest of the university.
The university Presidents are leading this charge. Just look at the nonsensical conference alignment activity that has already occurred for no reason other than money. Couldn't happen without the full involvement and blessing of the university Presidents.
Which nonsensical reallignment activity?
The only one that was nonsensical was West Virginia to the Big 12. And that one was a matter of survival.
(08-12-2021 11:04 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: Actually, I see things going the other way.
At that point, the Presidents of the biggest universities start actually paying attention and realizing that this has nothing to do with their academic institution anymore. They debate cutting athletics loose completely, but ultimately they actually make it a priority to sit down and make a system that is all of the above: a) legal, b) restores the student-athlete concept, and c) restores power to the schools rather than the players.
in this day and age, that sounds like wishful thinking - but, one can always hold out hope for some sanity to (re)appear
It is wishful thinking
But I've long thought that the biggest problem in college sports is that university Presidents don't pay any attention to it.
They're running complex multibillion dollar organizations. They don't have the time to oversee a minor division that pays for itself (which it does at the schools that matter). They also lack the inclination; most Presidents are stuck-up nerds that don't want to dabble in athletics.
With no academic oversight, the ADs have been allowed to run amok. But power is ultimately held by the Presidents. They can retake control at any time. But they'll only bother to do so if athletics starts embarrassing the rest of the university.
The university Presidents are leading this charge. Just look at the nonsensical conference alignment activity that has already occurred for no reason other than money. Couldn't happen without the full involvement and blessing of the university Presidents.
Which nonsensical reallignment activity?
The only one that was nonsensical was West Virginia to the Big 12. And that one was a matter of survival.
All the other ones made perfect sense.
…for money. They’ve missed their calling— should be on Wall St.
(08-13-2021 06:53 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote: All of this because poor little Shabazz Napier got the late night munchies and claimed he didn't have any money for a bag of doritos.
Even if this turns college athletics into full time semi-professional sports, I just can't grasp how you can be upset that 18-22 year olds are allowed to evaluate their platforms on an open market and make a profit.
(08-13-2021 06:53 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote: All of this because poor little Shabazz Napier got the late night munchies and claimed he didn't have any money for a bag of doritos.
Even if this turns college athletics into full time semi-professional sports, I just can't grasp how you can be upset that 18-22 year olds are allowed to evaluate their platforms on an open market and make a profit.
Because they're profiting on something that's not theirs.
Most of the reason why the kids COULD profit is because of the platform for fame that the school provides them. Yet the only reason why the school has that platform is because they agree to amateurism rules.
If the player wants to profit, he can play in one of the many semipro and foreign leagues (at least for basketball & baseball).
(08-13-2021 06:53 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote: All of this because poor little Shabazz Napier got the late night munchies and claimed he didn't have any money for a bag of doritos.
Even if this turns college athletics into full time semi-professional sports, I just can't grasp how you can be upset that 18-22 year olds are allowed to evaluate their platforms on an open market and make a profit.
Because they're profiting on something that's not theirs.
Most of the reason why the kids COULD profit is because of the platform for fame that the school provides them. Yet the only reason why the school has that platform is because they agree to amateurism rules.
If the player wants to profit, he can play in one of the many semipro and foreign leagues (at least for basketball & baseball).
We left amateurism behind decades ago. This is a big business. Employees in big businesses fight to earn just compensation. College athletics can't just use the buzz word "amaterism" to justify fixed wages. The SCOTUS basically said as much in their ruling that started all of this. Frankly I agree with them.
(08-13-2021 06:53 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote: All of this because poor little Shabazz Napier got the late night munchies and claimed he didn't have any money for a bag of doritos.
Even if this turns college athletics into full time semi-professional sports, I just can't grasp how you can be upset that 18-22 year olds are allowed to evaluate their platforms on an open market and make a profit.
Because they're profiting on something that's not theirs.
Most of the reason why the kids COULD profit is because of the platform for fame that the school provides them. Yet the only reason why the school has that platform is because they agree to amateurism rules.
If the player wants to profit, he can play in one of the many semipro and foreign leagues (at least for basketball & baseball).
We left amateurism behind decades ago. This is a big business. Employees in big businesses fight to earn just compensation. College athletics can't just use the buzz word "amaterism" to justify fixed wages. The SCOTUS basically said as much in their ruling that started all of this. Frankly I agree with them.
I disagree.
This season, they're still amateurs.
Next season and going forward, I don't think that will still be the case. And I'm not the only one who will ignore college sports if it becomes clear that they're simply guns-for-hire.
I already ignore the NFL and NBA. It won't be too hard to ignore college sports too.
Selfishly I'd prefer college athletics not turn into a semi professional organization but as far as what's right for the players, this is kinda a no brainer for me. In CFB, the entire sport gave up amateur status ages ago. Why should the players be the ones left holding the bag?
I think of someone like Des, who is making a million dollar gamble on himself despite having a newborn at home. Why shouldn't he be able to earn a fair valuation based off his NIL? He's done plenty for this school.
Or someone like Bryce Young. You're telling me he should've had to wait an arbitrary 3 or 4 years to earn the million dollars he's banking already? What if he ends up sucking and doesn't earn any of it?
These guys are being asked to sacrifice 3-5 years of their prime earning potential in the name of amateurism. They don't have an alternative platform to earn off their talent because CFB used amateurism to create a grandfathered-in monopoly. I just don't see the point to it. Maybe it'll suck for the rest of us but so be it. Let them eat cake.
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(This post was last modified: 08-17-2021 05:31 PM by Cataclysmo.)
(08-13-2021 06:53 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote: All of this because poor little Shabazz Napier got the late night munchies and claimed he didn't have any money for a bag of doritos.
Even if this turns college athletics into full time semi-professional sports, I just can't grasp how you can be upset that 18-22 year olds are allowed to evaluate their platforms on an open market and make a profit.
(08-13-2021 06:53 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote: All of this because poor little Shabazz Napier got the late night munchies and claimed he didn't have any money for a bag of doritos.
Even if this turns college athletics into full time semi-professional sports, I just can't grasp how you can be upset that 18-22 year olds are allowed to evaluate their platforms on an open market and make a profit.
Because they're profiting on something that's not theirs.
Most of the reason why the kids COULD profit is because of the platform for fame that the school provides them. Yet the only reason why the school has that platform is because they agree to amateurism rules.
If the player wants to profit, he can play in one of the many semipro and foreign leagues (at least for basketball & baseball).
I don't care how much the players make/earn/are given.
What I care about is that there are rules that allow more than 10 schools to have a realistic chance at being the best.
It is one big reason why more people watch the NFL than the MLB. Baseball's rules favor the few teams that can generate the most money. Professional football spreads it out more. College football does not, and the worse that gets, the less interesting college football will become.
(08-13-2021 06:53 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote: All of this because poor little Shabazz Napier got the late night munchies and claimed he didn't have any money for a bag of doritos.
Even if this turns college athletics into full time semi-professional sports, I just can't grasp how you can be upset that 18-22 year olds are allowed to evaluate their platforms on an open market and make a profit.
It's a school. It's not a job.
Did you forget that part?
That same school provides me a full scholarship + a stipend, in part because instead of graduate school I could've begun working in industry for substantially more money. Despite this, I can still profit off my NIL like every other employee at UC.
(08-17-2021 05:28 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote: Selfishly I'd prefer college athletics not turn into a semi professional organization but as far as what's right for the players, this is kinda a no brainer for me. In CFB, the entire sport gave up amateur status ages ago. Why should the players be the ones left holding the bag?
I think of someone like Des, who is making a million dollar gamble on himself despite having a newborn at home. Why shouldn't he be able to earn a fair valuation based off his NIL? He's done plenty for this school.
Or someone like Bryce Young. You're telling me he should've had to wait an arbitrary 3 or 4 years to earn the million dollars he's banking already? What if he ends up sucking and doesn't earn any of it?
These guys are being asked to sacrifice 3-5 years of their prime earning potential in the name of amateurism. They don't have an alternative platform to earn off their talent because CFB used amateurism to create a grandfathered-in monopoly. I just don't see the point to it. Maybe it'll suck for the rest of us but so be it. Let them eat cake.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
“ These guys are being asked to sacrifice 3-5 years of their prime earning potential in the name of amateurism”
C’mon. Des increased his value bigly coming back for this year. At most he sacrificed one year. He improved his draft status, and skill level, a lot by coming back. And that is why players come back.
(08-17-2021 05:28 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote: Selfishly I'd prefer college athletics not turn into a semi professional organization but as far as what's right for the players, this is kinda a no brainer for me. In CFB, the entire sport gave up amateur status ages ago. Why should the players be the ones left holding the bag?
I think of someone like Des, who is making a million dollar gamble on himself despite having a newborn at home. Why shouldn't he be able to earn a fair valuation based off his NIL? He's done plenty for this school.
Or someone like Bryce Young. You're telling me he should've had to wait an arbitrary 3 or 4 years to earn the million dollars he's banking already? What if he ends up sucking and doesn't earn any of it?
These guys are being asked to sacrifice 3-5 years of their prime earning potential in the name of amateurism. They don't have an alternative platform to earn off their talent because CFB used amateurism to create a grandfathered-in monopoly. I just don't see the point to it. Maybe it'll suck for the rest of us but so be it. Let them eat cake.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
“ These guys are being asked to sacrifice 3-5 years of their prime earning potential in the name of amateurism”
C’mon. Des increased his value bigly coming back for this year. At most he sacrificed one year. He improved his draft status, and skill level, a lot by coming back. And that is why players come back.
Young is free to sit out. Chase did it for a year.
(08-17-2021 05:28 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote: Selfishly I'd prefer college athletics not turn into a semi professional organization but as far as what's right for the players, this is kinda a no brainer for me. In CFB, the entire sport gave up amateur status ages ago. Why should the players be the ones left holding the bag?
I think of someone like Des, who is making a million dollar gamble on himself despite having a newborn at home. Why shouldn't he be able to earn a fair valuation based off his NIL? He's done plenty for this school.
Or someone like Bryce Young. You're telling me he should've had to wait an arbitrary 3 or 4 years to earn the million dollars he's banking already? What if he ends up sucking and doesn't earn any of it?
These guys are being asked to sacrifice 3-5 years of their prime earning potential in the name of amateurism. They don't have an alternative platform to earn off their talent because CFB used amateurism to create a grandfathered-in monopoly. I just don't see the point to it. Maybe it'll suck for the rest of us but so be it. Let them eat cake.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
“ These guys are being asked to sacrifice 3-5 years of their prime earning potential in the name of amateurism”
C’mon. Des increased his value bigly coming back for this year. At most he sacrificed one year. He improved his draft status, and skill level, a lot by coming back. And that is why players come back.
sacrificing 3 -5 years of their prime earning potential --- HUH? they're 18- 23 years old - at that age, without college, not to be mean, but they'd most probably be looking at entry level, low paying jobs (like what most people do) - the education, if they take advantage of it, the booster contacts, if they're smart enough to work them, and the sports training, if they're lucky / good enough, will push them up the job board pretty quickly, more than most 18- 23 year olds - there's tangible benefits to playing college ball, even if it doesn't involve professional leagues
(08-17-2021 05:28 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote: Selfishly I'd prefer college athletics not turn into a semi professional organization but as far as what's right for the players, this is kinda a no brainer for me. In CFB, the entire sport gave up amateur status ages ago. Why should the players be the ones left holding the bag?
I think of someone like Des, who is making a million dollar gamble on himself despite having a newborn at home. Why shouldn't he be able to earn a fair valuation based off his NIL? He's done plenty for this school.
Or someone like Bryce Young. You're telling me he should've had to wait an arbitrary 3 or 4 years to earn the million dollars he's banking already? What if he ends up sucking and doesn't earn any of it?
These guys are being asked to sacrifice 3-5 years of their prime earning potential in the name of amateurism. They don't have an alternative platform to earn off their talent because CFB used amateurism to create a grandfathered-in monopoly. I just don't see the point to it. Maybe it'll suck for the rest of us but so be it. Let them eat cake.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
“ These guys are being asked to sacrifice 3-5 years of their prime earning potential in the name of amateurism”
C’mon. Des increased his value bigly coming back for this year. At most he sacrificed one year. He improved his draft status, and skill level, a lot by coming back. And that is why players come back.
sacrificing 3 -5 years of their prime earning potential --- HUH? they're 18- 23 years old - at that age, without college, not to be mean, but they'd most probably be looking at entry level, low paying jobs (like what most people do) - the education, if they take advantage of it, the booster contacts, if they're smart enough to work them, and the sports training, if they're lucky / good enough, will push them up the job board pretty quickly, more than most 18- 23 year olds - there's tangible benefits to playing college ball, even if it doesn't involve professional leagues
Agreed. Hypothetically, if Des were to have left UC after 2020 his prime earning potential would have been the following contract a few more years down the line. This is assuming he would have played well enough for several years to earn that next "prime" contract. Most guys don't. Think of all the guys we've had at UC football over the years that were great players that we thought would go on to play at the next level-- most of them wind up on practice squads here and there and are done playing football after three years.
(08-17-2021 05:28 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote: Selfishly I'd prefer college athletics not turn into a semi professional organization but as far as what's right for the players, this is kinda a no brainer for me. In CFB, the entire sport gave up amateur status ages ago. Why should the players be the ones left holding the bag?
I think of someone like Des, who is making a million dollar gamble on himself despite having a newborn at home. Why shouldn't he be able to earn a fair valuation based off his NIL? He's done plenty for this school.
Or someone like Bryce Young. You're telling me he should've had to wait an arbitrary 3 or 4 years to earn the million dollars he's banking already? What if he ends up sucking and doesn't earn any of it?
These guys are being asked to sacrifice 3-5 years of their prime earning potential in the name of amateurism. They don't have an alternative platform to earn off their talent because CFB used amateurism to create a grandfathered-in monopoly. I just don't see the point to it. Maybe it'll suck for the rest of us but so be it. Let them eat cake.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
“ These guys are being asked to sacrifice 3-5 years of their prime earning potential in the name of amateurism”
C’mon. Des increased his value bigly coming back for this year. At most he sacrificed one year. He improved his draft status, and skill level, a lot by coming back. And that is why players come back.
sacrificing 3 -5 years of their prime earning potential --- HUH? they're 18- 23 years old - at that age, without college, not to be mean, but they'd most probably be looking at entry level, low paying jobs (like what most people do) - the education, if they take advantage of it, the booster contacts, if they're smart enough to work them, and the sports training, if they're lucky / good enough, will push them up the job board pretty quickly, more than most 18- 23 year olds - there's tangible benefits to playing college ball, even if it doesn't involve professional leagues
Agreed. Hypothetically, if Des were to have left UC after 2020 his prime earning potential would have been the following contract a few more years down the line. This is assuming he would have played well enough for several years to earn that next "prime" contract. Most guys don't. Think of all the guys we've had at UC football over the years that were great players that we thought would go on to play at the next level-- most of them wind up on practice squads here and there and are done playing football after three years.
His first contract would have likely been small had he left last season as he probably would have been a late round pick, whereas now he likely will be a much higher pick (Could be 1st rounder, though my bet is probably 2nd, though the 1st rounders getting that extra year could have someone snag him in the 1st) and get a bigger deal. He also definitely improved his passing and mechanics, which should help his chances of landing a second deal.
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Ridder NIL Deal
