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Small Ball vs. Transfer Portal?
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RocketBBallFan Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Small Ball vs. Transfer Portal?
(07-11-2021 01:04 AM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  Agreed FMRocket. You’d think criticism of a program with only 2 true post players going into a season (and losing one hence thereafter) would seem legit but I guess we’re a bunch of dumbasses that don’t see an obvious problem.

Yawn. If your expectation of Rocket basketball for the next 10 years is 20 wins and maybe an NIT appearance, then great. I realize that’s a good season in general.

We’ve had the likes of Nathan Boothe, Justin Ingram, Marreon Jackson, among others, play 4 years and nothing to show for it. I expect more. We want an NCAA tourney appearance or two and maybe a small run. I don’t really care if those expectations seem to be unrealistic to some of you…

The criticism is valid and your expectations are realistic. However, I'd like to point out that 20 wins and an occasional NIT appearance have been what the Toledo men's bball program has been for the past 40 years and pretty much the entire existence of the program. Only 4 NCAA Tournament appearances in 106 years as a program. In 3 of those 4 years, the team made the tournament by winning the regular season championship since there was no MAC Tournament then. Stan Joplin and TK would each have one NCAA appearance if regular season champs still got the NCAA bid. I'm just pointing out that TK has the program where it has been for pretty much its entire history: 20+ wins, regular season championships, championship contention.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2021 08:49 AM by RocketBBallFan.)
07-11-2021 08:51 AM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Small Ball vs. Transfer Portal?
(07-11-2021 08:51 AM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  
(07-11-2021 01:04 AM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  Agreed FMRocket. You’d think criticism of a program with only 2 true post players going into a season (and losing one hence thereafter) would seem legit but I guess we’re a bunch of dumbasses that don’t see an obvious problem.

Yawn. If your expectation of Rocket basketball for the next 10 years is 20 wins and maybe an NIT appearance, then great. I realize that’s a good season in general.

We’ve had the likes of Nathan Boothe, Justin Ingram, Marreon Jackson, among others, play 4 years and nothing to show for it. I expect more. We want an NCAA tourney appearance or two and maybe a small run. I don’t really care if those expectations seem to be unrealistic to some of you…

The criticism is valid and your expectations are realistic. However, I'd like to point out that 20 wins and an occasional NIT appearance have been what the Toledo men's bball program has been for the past 40 years and pretty much the entire existence of the program. Only 4 NCAA Tournament appearances in 106 years as a program. In 3 of those 4 years, the team made the tournament by winning the regular season championship since there was no MAC Tournament then. Stan Joplin and TK would each have one NCAA appearance if regular season champs still got the NCAA bid. I'm just pointing out that TK has the program where it has been for pretty much it's entire history: 20+ wins, regular season championships, championship contention.

Frankly ... while one can argue about this formula pre-2000, the fact is for the last 20 years as a 1-bid league that's about all any MAC team can realistically expect.

The league has had 'eras' since then (Kent State, Buffalo) of basically strong 5-year runs and 'moments' like those delivered by Ohio and Akron but since the MAC Tournament era there has been no real sustained dominant MAC program that has distanced itself from the rest of the league.

For better or worse, since 2000, the current first rule of thumb in the MAC is to be a 20-win team, MAC regular-season contender (Top 4-5) and roll the dice in the MAC Tournament.

As it stands right now Akron, Toledo, Buffalo, Kent and arguably Ohio fit that profile. Four of those five teams have multiple NCAA Appearances since 2000. Toledo is the odd duck.
07-11-2021 08:45 PM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Small Ball vs. Transfer Portal?
(07-11-2021 08:45 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(07-11-2021 08:51 AM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  
(07-11-2021 01:04 AM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  Agreed FMRocket. You’d think criticism of a program with only 2 true post players going into a season (and losing one hence thereafter) would seem legit but I guess we’re a bunch of dumbasses that don’t see an obvious problem.

Yawn. If your expectation of Rocket basketball for the next 10 years is 20 wins and maybe an NIT appearance, then great. I realize that’s a good season in general.

We’ve had the likes of Nathan Boothe, Justin Ingram, Marreon Jackson, among others, play 4 years and nothing to show for it. I expect more. We want an NCAA tourney appearance or two and maybe a small run. I don’t really care if those expectations seem to be unrealistic to some of you…

The criticism is valid and your expectations are realistic. However, I'd like to point out that 20 wins and an occasional NIT appearance have been what the Toledo men's bball program has been for the past 40 years and pretty much the entire existence of the program. Only 4 NCAA Tournament appearances in 106 years as a program. In 3 of those 4 years, the team made the tournament by winning the regular season championship since there was no MAC Tournament then. Stan Joplin and TK would each have one NCAA appearance if regular season champs still got the NCAA bid. I'm just pointing out that TK has the program where it has been for pretty much it's entire history: 20+ wins, regular season championships, championship contention.

Frankly ... while one can argue about this formula pre-2000, the fact is for the last 20 years as a 1-bid league that's about all any MAC team can realistically expect.

The league has had 'eras' since then (Kent State, Buffalo) of basically strong 5-year runs and 'moments' like those delivered by Ohio and Akron but since the MAC Tournament era there has been no real sustained dominant MAC program that has distanced itself from the rest of the league.

For better or worse, since 2000, the current first rule of thumb in the MAC is to be a 20-win team, MAC regular-season contender (Top 4-5) and roll the dice in the MAC Tournament.

As it stands right now Akron, Toledo, Buffalo, Kent and arguably Ohio fit that profile. Four of those five teams have multiple NCAA Appearances since 2000. Toledo is the odd duck.

Last 20 seasons' MAC Tourney Winners:
KSU 5x
Ohio 4x
Buffalo 4x
Akron 3x
WMU 2x
CMU 1x
Miami 1x
07-12-2021 02:58 AM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Small Ball vs. Transfer Portal?
(07-12-2021 02:58 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(07-11-2021 08:45 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(07-11-2021 08:51 AM)RocketBBallFan Wrote:  
(07-11-2021 01:04 AM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  Agreed FMRocket. You’d think criticism of a program with only 2 true post players going into a season (and losing one hence thereafter) would seem legit but I guess we’re a bunch of dumbasses that don’t see an obvious problem.

Yawn. If your expectation of Rocket basketball for the next 10 years is 20 wins and maybe an NIT appearance, then great. I realize that’s a good season in general.

We’ve had the likes of Nathan Boothe, Justin Ingram, Marreon Jackson, among others, play 4 years and nothing to show for it. I expect more. We want an NCAA tourney appearance or two and maybe a small run. I don’t really care if those expectations seem to be unrealistic to some of you…

The criticism is valid and your expectations are realistic. However, I'd like to point out that 20 wins and an occasional NIT appearance have been what the Toledo men's bball program has been for the past 40 years and pretty much the entire existence of the program. Only 4 NCAA Tournament appearances in 106 years as a program. In 3 of those 4 years, the team made the tournament by winning the regular season championship since there was no MAC Tournament then. Stan Joplin and TK would each have one NCAA appearance if regular season champs still got the NCAA bid. I'm just pointing out that TK has the program where it has been for pretty much it's entire history: 20+ wins, regular season championships, championship contention.

Frankly ... while one can argue about this formula pre-2000, the fact is for the last 20 years as a 1-bid league that's about all any MAC team can realistically expect.

The league has had 'eras' since then (Kent State, Buffalo) of basically strong 5-year runs and 'moments' like those delivered by Ohio and Akron but since the MAC Tournament era there has been no real sustained dominant MAC program that has distanced itself from the rest of the league.

For better or worse, since 2000, the current first rule of thumb in the MAC is to be a 20-win team, MAC regular-season contender (Top 4-5) and roll the dice in the MAC Tournament.

As it stands right now Akron, Toledo, Buffalo, Kent and arguably Ohio fit that profile. Four of those five teams have multiple NCAA Appearances since 2000. Toledo is the odd duck.

Last 20 seasons' MAC Tourney Winners:
KSU 5x
Ohio 4x
Buffalo 4x
Akron 3x
WMU 2x
CMU 1x
Miami 1x

And if you count back one more year (1999-2000) you can add Ball State which would make 8 of 12 MAC teams have been to the NCAA Tournament since the turn of the century, leaving UT, BG, EMU and NIU on the outside looking in.

Not great, but not bad.
07-12-2021 08:30 AM
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pono Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Small Ball vs. Transfer Portal?
I think we’ve had 5 or 6 top 100 this century but no tournament berths. Some of that is being good but not good enough and some is bad luck. We’ve also never had an average team get hot in the MAC tournament and get there that way.
07-12-2021 10:57 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Small Ball vs. Transfer Portal?
(07-12-2021 10:57 PM)pono Wrote:  I think we’ve had 5 or 6 top 100 this century but no tournament berths. Some of that is being good but not good enough and some is bad luck. We’ve also never had an average team get hot in the MAC tournament and get there that way.

Agree about 'average' teams ... but there have been several 'underachieving' reg-season teams that found themselves in the tournament - a couple of those OU teams fit that bill - and maybe??? that 2017 Kent State team ... although aside from JHall, that was actually a pretty young KSU team (Walker, Avery were sophs, Peterson and Pippen were fresh, ADL a juco) that kind of grew up at the end.
07-14-2021 11:34 AM
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