Notables:

12 - Earl Timberlake
60 - DJ Jeffries
62 - Moussa Cisse
64 - Boogie Ellis
Honorable Mention - Davion Warren
No Mention - Chandler Lawson

ESPN+ Top 100 hoops transfers 2021

No offense to the Lawson family. But I don’t think I remember such inconsistency in ratings as it is concerned with those kids. Not one has ever lived up to expectations.

In before you know who...

12 - Earl Timberlake


60 - DJ Jeffries
WHO?

62 - Moussa Cisse
WHO?

64 - Boogie Ellis
WHO?

(07-09-2021 10:51 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  No offense to the Lawson family. But I don’t think I remember such inconsistency in ratings as it is concerned with those kids. Not one has ever lived up to expectations.

Dedric was pretty damn good. Here and at Kansas. Chandler was rated high as an 8th grader and never adjusted down to where he should have been because he was surrounded by incredible talent on Team Penny.

Anyone who has watched these kids in person knows that they've delivered to their ability.

(07-09-2021 11:05 AM)misplaced tiger Wrote:  

(07-09-2021 10:51 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  No offense to the Lawson family. But I don’t think I remember such inconsistency in ratings as it is concerned with those kids. Not one has ever lived up to expectations.

Dedric was pretty damn good. Here and at Kansas. Chandler was rated high as an 8th grader and never adjusted down to where he should have been because he was surrounded by incredible talent on Team Penny.

Anyone who has watched these kids in person knows that they've delivered to their ability.

But not their rankings.

(07-11-2021 07:33 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-09-2021 11:05 AM)misplaced tiger Wrote:  

(07-09-2021 10:51 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  No offense to the Lawson family. But I don’t think I remember such inconsistency in ratings as it is concerned with those kids. Not one has ever lived up to expectations.

Dedric was pretty damn good. Here and at Kansas. Chandler was rated high as an 8th grader and never adjusted down to where he should have been because he was surrounded by incredible talent on Team Penny.

Anyone who has watched these kids in person knows that they've delivered to their ability.

But not their rankings.

Y’all are being silly.

Dedric was a top-40 player in his class and ended up a 3rd team college All American and 1st team All Big 12. Clearly lived up to his ranking.

KJ was ranked outside of the top-150 and ended up conference freshman of the year and a double digit scorer.

Chandler was a borderline top-100 player and has been a 2-year rotation player on a sweet 16 team.

All have lived up to reasonable expectations

I wish the younger two were as good as Detric. He was a double double machine who could post and shoot from the outside. He was a dominant player, in the AAC and the Big 12. Chandler never projected to be as good as Detric. Jonathan was thought to be the best of the 4 only because they thought he would grow to be the tallest.

(07-11-2021 08:25 AM)tkgrrett Wrote:  

(07-11-2021 07:33 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-09-2021 11:05 AM)misplaced tiger Wrote:  

(07-09-2021 10:51 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  No offense to the Lawson family. But I don’t think I remember such inconsistency in ratings as it is concerned with those kids. Not one has ever lived up to expectations.

Dedric was pretty damn good. Here and at Kansas. Chandler was rated high as an 8th grader and never adjusted down to where he should have been because he was surrounded by incredible talent on Team Penny.

Anyone who has watched these kids in person knows that they've delivered to their ability.

But not their rankings.

Y’all are being silly.

Dedric was a top-40 player in his class and ended up a 3rd team college All American and 1st team All Big 12. Clearly lived up to his ranking.

KJ was ranked outside of the top-150 and ended up conference freshman of the year and a double digit scorer.

Chandler was a borderline top-100 player and has been a 2-year rotation player on a sweet 16 team.

All have lived up to reasonable expectations

Dedric was ranked 36 by 247. He finished his career averaging 18/10 in 3 years. I would say he exceeded his expectations.

KJ was unranked and finished with a 9/5 average. That would also exceed expectations.

Chandler was ranked 95th. He has only averaged 4/4.

So one out of 3 hasn't lived up to rankings.

I think Jonathan will be a pretty good player for us.

(07-09-2021 10:51 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  No offense to the Lawson family. But I don’t think I remember such inconsistency in ratings as it is concerned with those kids. Not one has ever lived up to expectations.

I think some people remember them being ranked higher than they were

(07-11-2021 09:41 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(07-09-2021 10:51 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  No offense to the Lawson family. But I don’t think I remember such inconsistency in ratings as it is concerned with those kids. Not one has ever lived up to expectations.

I think some people remember them being ranked higher than they were

Agree. IIRC, Johnathan was ranked #1 (or close) in the 8th grade (or whenever they start ranking kids) but fell quickly after playing nationally ranked players. Maybe that's part of it.

(07-11-2021 12:22 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-11-2021 09:41 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(07-09-2021 10:51 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  No offense to the Lawson family. But I don’t think I remember such inconsistency in ratings as it is concerned with those kids. Not one has ever lived up to expectations.

I think some people remember them being ranked higher than they were

Agree. IIRC, Johnathan was ranked #1 (or close) in the 8th grade (or whenever they start ranking kids) but fell quickly after playing nationally ranked players. Maybe that's part of it.

Yep people are only going to remember a kids highest rating because that's the one everyone advertises

(07-11-2021 09:39 AM)mairving Wrote:  

(07-11-2021 08:25 AM)tkgrrett Wrote:  

(07-11-2021 07:33 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-09-2021 11:05 AM)misplaced tiger Wrote:  

(07-09-2021 10:51 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  No offense to the Lawson family. But I don’t think I remember such inconsistency in ratings as it is concerned with those kids. Not one has ever lived up to expectations.

Dedric was pretty damn good. Here and at Kansas. Chandler was rated high as an 8th grader and never adjusted down to where he should have been because he was surrounded by incredible talent on Team Penny.

Anyone who has watched these kids in person knows that they've delivered to their ability.

But not their rankings.

Y’all are being silly.

Dedric was a top-40 player in his class and ended up a 3rd team college All American and 1st team All Big 12. Clearly lived up to his ranking.

KJ was ranked outside of the top-150 and ended up conference freshman of the year and a double digit scorer.

Chandler was a borderline top-100 player and has been a 2-year rotation player on a sweet 16 team.

All have lived up to reasonable expectations

Dedric was ranked 36 by 247. He finished his career averaging 18/10 in 3 years. I would say he exceeded his expectations.

KJ was unranked and finished with a 9/5 average. That would also exceed expectations.

Chandler was ranked 95th. He has only averaged 4/4.

So one out of 3 hasn't lived up to rankings.

I think Jonathan will be a pretty good player for us.

KJ was NOT unranked, nor was he outside 150. I don't know why 247 shows him as unranked today. Maybe because he came out one year, then went through an injury redshirt and reclassed. So his class year is a bit fuzzy.

But at the time he came out he was ranked #53 as a 4-star (I keep a database) in the 247 composite. ESPN shows him as #44 in the class of 2015.

And he was a fine player, athletically. It was his head that got him twisted up a bit during his career. I'd say he met expectations until the messy divorce.

Dedric obviously met expectations.

Not sure about Chandler yet, and Johnny is an blank page right now.

(07-11-2021 05:00 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(07-11-2021 09:39 AM)mairving Wrote:  

(07-11-2021 08:25 AM)tkgrrett Wrote:  

(07-11-2021 07:33 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(07-09-2021 11:05 AM)misplaced tiger Wrote:  Dedric was pretty damn good. Here and at Kansas. Chandler was rated high as an 8th grader and never adjusted down to where he should have been because he was surrounded by incredible talent on Team Penny.

Anyone who has watched these kids in person knows that they've delivered to their ability.

But not their rankings.

Y’all are being silly.

Dedric was a top-40 player in his class and ended up a 3rd team college All American and 1st team All Big 12. Clearly lived up to his ranking.

KJ was ranked outside of the top-150 and ended up conference freshman of the year and a double digit scorer.

Chandler was a borderline top-100 player and has been a 2-year rotation player on a sweet 16 team.

All have lived up to reasonable expectations

Dedric was ranked 36 by 247. He finished his career averaging 18/10 in 3 years. I would say he exceeded his expectations.

KJ was unranked and finished with a 9/5 average. That would also exceed expectations.

Chandler was ranked 95th. He has only averaged 4/4.

So one out of 3 hasn't lived up to rankings.

I think Jonathan will be a pretty good player for us.

KJ was NOT unranked, nor was he outside 150. I don't know why 247 shows him as unranked today. Maybe because he came out one year, then went through an injury redshirt and reclassed. So his class year is a bit fuzzy.

But at the time he came out he was ranked #53 as a 4-star (I keep a database) in the 247 composite. ESPN shows him as #44 in the class of 2015.

And he was a fine player, athletically. It was his head that got him twisted up a bit during his career. I'd say he met expectations until the messy divorce.

Dedric obviously met expectations.

Not sure about Chandler yet, and Johnny is an blank page right now.

Ok - so KJ was a top-60ish player. He still ended up a winning freshman of the year in the AAC and had a couple double digit scoring seasons. That’s in line with expectations for his ranking.

Chandler was a rotation player on a sweet 16 team. That’s not out of line for a bottom of the top 100 player their sophomore year.

It sounds like people are just expecting a bit much. The only one of the Lawsons rated as a “star” was McD AA Dedric Lawson - and he lived up to every bit of the label.

(07-11-2021 12:22 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-11-2021 09:41 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(07-09-2021 10:51 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  No offense to the Lawson family. But I don’t think I remember such inconsistency in ratings as it is concerned with those kids. Not one has ever lived up to expectations.

I think some people remember them being ranked higher than they were

Agree. IIRC, Johnathan was ranked #1 (or close) in the 8th grade (or whenever they start ranking kids) but fell quickly after playing nationally ranked players. Maybe that's part of it.

I do think that’s part of it. I think the better statement may be that the family in general hasn’t lived up to the hype. They were called The first family of college basketball.

A lot of fans seem to think all players are going to be stars and then label them a bust when they play at a reasonably expected level or even slightly higher but not at the fan's conjured up and unrealistic expectation. It is a very strange phenomenon.

We see clips of kids hitting a few threes in an empty gym and people all of a sudden expect the next Steph Curry and then label the player a bust if he shoots 40% from behind the arc, very strange stuff.

(07-12-2021 09:31 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  A lot of fans seem to think all players are going to be stars and then label them a bust when they play at a reasonably expected level or even slightly higher but not at the fan's conjured up and unrealistic expectation. It is a very strange phenomenon.

We see clips of kids hitting a few threes in an empty gym and people all of a sudden expect the next Steph Curry and then label the player a bust if he shoots 40% from behind the arc, very strange stuff.

Yes. In addition, it's hard to learn the truth that ALL 5 STARS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL. For instance, If a player receives a 5-star rating, my lizard brain has been trained to automatically assume the kid is a one and done, capable of changing the team by his presence. In fact, I remember reading someone's (24/7, maybe) explanation of their rating system in which 5-stars meant that a player was a "Program Changer". That was when Joe Jackson was being recruited, FWIW.
I'd extend the above to say that not all 4 stars are created equal either, nor 3 stars. And it all comes down to what players are getting exposure, and who's doing the rating of the players.
Treating such an imperfect system as if it were rationally perfect leads to all kinds of surprises, both pleasant and unpleasant.

(07-12-2021 10:04 AM)holyterror Wrote:  

(07-12-2021 09:31 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  A lot of fans seem to think all players are going to be stars and then label them a bust when they play at a reasonably expected level or even slightly higher but not at the fan's conjured up and unrealistic expectation. It is a very strange phenomenon.

We see clips of kids hitting a few threes in an empty gym and people all of a sudden expect the next Steph Curry and then label the player a bust if he shoots 40% from behind the arc, very strange stuff.

Yes. In addition, it's hard to learn the truth that ALL 5 STARS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL. For instance, If a player receives a 5-star rating, my lizard brain has been trained to automatically assume the kid is a one and done, capable of changing the team by his presence. In fact, I remember reading someone's (24/7, maybe) explanation of their rating system in which 5-stars meant that a player was a "Program Changer". That was when Joe Jackson was being recruited, FWIW.
I'd extend the above to say that not all 4 stars are created equal either, nor 3 stars. And it all comes down to what players are getting exposure, and who's doing the rating of the players.
Treating such an imperfect system as if it were rationally perfect leads to all kinds of surprises, both pleasant and unpleasant.

Yep. Kentucky has seen that lately. Last year their 5 star point guards didn't pan out. Before then some 5 stars are better than others. It's a combination of how the coaches use him and kids mental toughness.

Then Kelvin Sampson can take players you never heard of make them all conference.

A lot of it is guesswork because the star rating comes when they are playing high school-level competition. It's hard to guess how they'll react to higher level competition in college (as well as the NBA, eventually).

I think for the most part, the Lawsons have played well enough to "meet expectations" generally speaking.

Lot of blame placed on fans' expectations in this thread. I think more of it is the media and Daddy Lawson. They have hyped the sons to a very high degree, and fans have simply bought into it.

(07-09-2021 10:51 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  No offense to the Lawson family. But I don’t think I remember such inconsistency in ratings as it is concerned with those kids. Not one has ever lived up to expectations.

It's literally impossible for someone to think this. Dedric averaged a double double for his career. KJ averaged 11.5 points and 7 rebounds for us as a freshman and sophmore. It's mind boggling.