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goofus Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Divisons?
(07-13-2021 07:38 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(07-13-2021 06:43 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(07-10-2021 03:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-09-2021 08:46 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Don't tell me, tell the Big Ten, SEC, and ACC scheduling offices.

And the media partners that advised on the media value of different alternatives.

It's perfectly within the rules to have some permanent games, and set up ad hoc divisional alignments every year around those permanent games ... and not necessarily with "pods" (a la Invasion of the Body Snatchers), since it is perfectly within the rules for some of those permanent games to be cross division in some years. All you need to do is to have a complete divisional round robin, and the CCG of the two divisional champions is allowed.
________________

Exactly. There are no official rules that says the divisions need to permanent, or exactly the same every year.

Conferences could easily, yes, even under existing CCG and existing divisions rules, set up a schedule with 3 permant rivals and play everybody else 50% of the time. Its just that the divisions they set up would need to be different every year.

With a 14 team conference, you'd have to have two "mini divisions" of four and two of three and divisions would have to be one mini division of four and one mini division of three.

SEC:
A: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina
B: Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
C: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State
D: Arkansas, LSU, Texas A&M

Feel free to adjust the mini divisions.

1 small tweak I would suggest for the SEC mini divisions. I would move Missouri to the group with Arkansas, LSU and A&M. This groups Mizzou with preferred rival Arkansas and old Big 12 mate Texas A&M.
07-14-2021 08:55 AM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Divisons?
With 8 games, SEC teams in the 3-team mini-divisions are the only ones that can have permanent rivals outside their grouping. This invariably leads to Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, Auburn, Florida, and 1 more (usually USC) being divvied into the smaller 3-team minis.
07-14-2021 09:56 AM
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Post: #63
RE: Divisons?
(07-14-2021 12:29 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(07-13-2021 08:49 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I can’t believe the big 10 allowed Rutgers and Maryland. They don’t belong. They aren’t even worthy of the CUSA let alone the AAC. Yuck!!

Look at Rutgers' and Maryland's NIH funding, for starters. Then add on the fact that Maryland has an online global campus. Then add in the fact that U of Maryland is located in the Baltimore-Washington, DC Beltway (number 4 metro in the US if you look at Baltimore and Washington, DC as twin cities rather than individual ones). Then add in the fact that Rutgers history dates back to the American Revolution and is located in the NYC metro, and does have some (albeit limited) fan support. Then add in the fact that both the states of Maryland and New Jersey are very rich recruiting states for football and basketball. The Big Ten could have done much worse, IMO.

The number of other big ten alumni in DC/Baltimore and NYC combined with overall market size and the need to have the conference network carried in those markets explains exactly why those schools were chosen. For DC Baltimore there is no other school but Maryland who fits. Rutgers is the non-threatening add that gets them into NYC which is a divided city and a pro city and the entertainment options capitol of the nation. No real way to dominate that market so they really just need an in, preferably one that won't be able to truly harness what is a pretty large resource in their backyard.

On a side note, one of my big hopes this last bowl negotiations was that the Military bowl would trade the ACC for the Big vs AAC. One there are just too many ACC match ups for us and two even if it was a low option I think a lot of 6-6 or 7-5 Big teams would pick it over the other low tier options meaning they would likely fill it even as option 8 or 9. Seemed like a natural fit with such a large alumni base in the area and a reasonable trip for most of the eastern teams.
07-14-2021 10:05 AM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Divisons?
(07-13-2021 08:49 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I can’t believe the big 10 allowed Rutgers and Maryland. They don’t belong. They aren’t even worthy of the CUSA let alone the AAC. Yuck!!

Obviously you are joking, but I will say having to play Rutgers as a cross-division opponent really is a can't win situation for any decent team in the West. You aren't natural rivals, you get no credit if you beat Rutgers, and its considered embarrassing or sometimes its just bad luck if you lose to them.

Now hopefully in the long run Greg Schiano will turn them into a consistently decent team, but even then I am still not sure why you would want to play them every year.
07-16-2021 01:19 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Divisons?
(07-16-2021 01:19 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(07-13-2021 08:49 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I can’t believe the big 10 allowed Rutgers and Maryland. They don’t belong. They aren’t even worthy of the CUSA let alone the AAC. Yuck!!

Obviously you are joking, but I will say having to play Rutgers as a cross-division opponent really is a can't win situation for any decent team in the West. You aren't natural rivals, you get no credit if you beat Rutgers, and its considered embarrassing or sometimes its just bad luck if you lose to them.

Now hopefully in the long run Greg Schiano will turn them into a consistently decent team, but even then I am still not sure why you would want to play them every year.

The only reason to want to go there would be the recruiting grounds ... after all, the Big Ten is the worst set up P5 conference for local football recruiting grounds ... but as far as their visit to your home stadium, I see no upside at all.

The {edit} Illini just drew the short straw the first time. Iowa drew it the next time.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2021 02:05 AM by BruceMcF.)
07-17-2021 03:39 AM
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westwolf Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Divisons?
Billybobby seems upset that Maryland beat Penn State.
07-17-2021 05:46 PM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Divisons?
(07-17-2021 03:39 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-16-2021 01:19 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(07-13-2021 08:49 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I can’t believe the big 10 allowed Rutgers and Maryland. They don’t belong. They aren’t even worthy of the CUSA let alone the AAC. Yuck!!

Obviously you are joking, but I will say having to play Rutgers as a cross-division opponent really is a can't win situation for any decent team in the West. You aren't natural rivals, you get no credit if you beat Rutgers, and its considered embarrassing or sometimes its just bad luck if you lose to them.

Now hopefully in the long run Greg Schiano will turn them into a consistently decent team, but even then I am still not sure why you would want to play them every year.

The only reason to want to go there would be the recruiting grounds ... after all, the Big Ten is the worst set up P5 conference for local football recruiting grounds ... but as far as their visit to your home stadium, I see no upside at all.

Northwestern just drew the short straw the first time. Iowa drew it the next time.

Not that it changes anything, but technically ILL drew the "short straw" the first time having to play Rutgers 6 years in a row because ILL and Rut were considered the worst 2 teams in their division. NW got matched with MSU because even 6 years ago, NW was considered a better team than ILL and Minn.

All the Big Ten did for this rotation was swap the 6 year rivals. OSU-Neb and Mich-Wisc got swapped. PSU-Iowa and Rut-ILL got swapped. MSU-NW and MD-Minn got swapped.

Now if all you were going to do was swap opponents, I am not sure why PSU-Iowa and MSU-NW weren't swapped instead. But maybe it was considered unfair to flop Rut-ILL with MD-Minn.
07-18-2021 03:16 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Divisons?
(07-18-2021 03:16 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(07-17-2021 03:39 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  The only reason to want to go there would be the recruiting grounds ... after all, the Big Ten is the worst set up P5 conference for local football recruiting grounds ... but as far as their visit to your home stadium, I see no upside at all.

Northwestern just drew the short straw the first time. Iowa drew it the next time.

Not that it changes anything, but technically ILL drew the "short straw" the first time having to play Rutgers 6 years in a row because ILL and Rut were considered the worst 2 teams in their division. NW got matched with MSU because even 6 years ago, NW was considered a better team than ILL and Minn.

(1) Yeah, the other team in Illinois, whatstheirname, that's the one who drew the short straw the first time.
(2) I never said how many were drawing the first time. It could have been between the Illini and Minnesota.

Quote: All the Big Ten did for this rotation was swap the 6 year rivals. OSU-Neb and Mich-Wisc got swapped. PSU-Iowa and Rut-ILL got swapped. MSU-NW and MD-Minn got swapped.

Now if all you were going to do was swap opponents, I am not sure why PSU-Iowa and MSU-NW weren't swapped instead. But maybe it was considered unfair to flop Rut-ILL with MD-Minn.

I'm telling you, they couldn't agree (because, to be fair, it's not fair to make anyone in the Western division host Rutgers three times in six years), so they got as far as swapping OSU-Neb and TSUN-Wisc and then deadlocked, and to settle it ended up drawing straws (again).
07-19-2021 02:13 AM
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